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Magic34
10-13-2004, 09:30 PM
As some of you know, and some disagree with, I am running 6 6V Trojan t-105's in my boat. Attached is a picture before insall was complete. Since this photo, I have added a diamond plate "box" that covers the top and the front side of the batteries. Basically, 1 side of each battery is not covered. That would be the sides and the sides that are exposed are facing the motors. I am using a 3 bank, 30 amp total, fully automatic Minnkota waterproof charger. The boat is stored inside of my 40' Metal garage, fully enclosed, no A/C. I live in AZ (temperate info).
Now for the issues.........
After having the batteries 6 months (new in March), I decided to check the level of water in the batteries. I removed the cover (this in August of this year) and could not see standing water. I added distilled water and EACH batter took a full 1 gallon of water to top them off. Actually, just over 6 gallons total.
This brings us to today.......
I thought I would check the batteries for the hell of it and see if the water was near the same level. I have NOT used the boat since topping the water off, it has just sat in the garage with the charger hooked up. When I popped the tops of the batteries tonight, could not see water in the batteries so I filled them up. Each battery is taking about 2/3 - 3/4 of a gallon of water.
Why is it using sooooo much water? Is the diamond plate preventing the batteries to breathe and use more water? Before adding the diamond plate, I never checked the water, but did use the boat and did not add any water. Never had a problem, so never checked until I started having power issues(after diamond plate installed). The power issues were, a lack of it, and the problem ended up being the batteries were dry.
Why am I going through all this water? I already asked this, but I was expecting to have to check the water level with these batteries 2 times a year, not monthly.
The batteries have been awesome on power. They last all day, jammin' the stereo, and my stereo draws about a constant 90-100 amps, peaks at about 155-160 amps (based on a meter).
It may be time to go throw these things back on the golfcourse, but I do like the power they supply. Actually, they can't be beat in reserve power.
Thanks in advance on any insight someone can give.

BLOWN HOWARD
10-13-2004, 09:35 PM
Install some 6V Gel batteries instead of the junky trojans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Magic34
10-13-2004, 09:39 PM
Forgot the picture...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2030Batteries_1-med.jpg

Havasu Hangin'
10-14-2004, 04:18 AM
Not sure the diamond plate would matter much, unless the cases are grounding. I'd call Trojan and see what they say. Perhaps as an experiment, you could test the diamond plate with a voltmeter (positive terminal) to see if there is a draw.
As for the water, usually it boils out (evaporates) when they heat up from charging. Since those batteries are vented, I suppose you will get some evaporation with the dry desert air (even without charging)...just not sure how much.
"Breathing" should have little to do with it, unless the diamond plate is making the batteries retain more heat when charging. More heat = more lost water.
As an experiment, I'd take them out and set them on a block of wood next time...then measure the water loss.

phebus
10-14-2004, 06:30 AM
It sounds as if you are overcharging the batteries. I wonder if your charger is working properly, and switching off when the batteries reach a full charge. I would hook a voltmeter up, and see what output (if any) is coming from the charger after the batteries should have reached a full charge.

Havasu Hangin'
10-14-2004, 07:00 AM
It sounds as if you are overcharging the batteries. I wonder if your charger is working properly, and switching off when the batteries reach a full charge. I would hook a voltmeter up, and see what output (if any) is coming from the charger after the batteries should have reached a full charge.
I was thinking the same thing. The charger should go into a "maintain" mode to prevent it.
However, if there is a grounded case, or shorted plate, the charger will keep charging (since they are all tied together in series) since there will always be a drain.

Evo22
10-14-2004, 07:10 AM
just my .02 ...this is'nt the only time I have heard of them "going thru" water we had a customer that had 4 of them and they definetly it had plenty of reserve. but went thru water like crazy at the begining of last season with no charger on them on the off season same thing happened and had some corision on the terminals( no current draw from the boat) so we yanked em and went with the oddesy's so far to date no problems

Bob Hostetter
10-14-2004, 08:41 AM
The problem is you are charging the battery's with a 12 volt system.
People are starting to use the 6 volt battery's because they tend to have a longer discharge rate then the standard 12 volt battery's. BUT they also wire them into a standard 12 volt charging system. This provides to much power to the battery's during the the charging cycle causing to much heat. Battery's (at least non sealed types) boil off the water when they overheat, resulting in them running out of water. If you check the sides of the battery you will probably also notice that they are slightly bowed. This is from the vents being unable to vent the steam from the water boiling quickly enough. In the worst case the case can break or crack from the pressure causing all sorts of problems, including the acid leaking all over the inside of your boat.
Be carefull about how completely you seal the battery's inside a container. When the battery's are being charged they produce hydrogen gas which is vented with the steam. Trapped hydrogen gas, especially when exposed to heat, sparks, etc, can cause its own special problems.............

ROZ
10-14-2004, 08:49 AM
Bob, his 6v are totally seperate for the stereo only, and are not being charge by anything but the external charger....
Mike, call your local country club and ask the cart maintenance staff if they go through an unsually high amount of water for the batteries...

phebus
10-14-2004, 09:11 AM
Bob, two 6V's wired in series gives you a 12V system, right? Wouldn't you then use a 12V charging system? My golf cart uses a 36V cahrger to charge the 6V batteries for it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, Rick

Magic34
10-14-2004, 11:05 AM
The problem is you are charging the battery's with a 12 volt system.
People are starting to use the 6 volt battery's because they tend to have a longer discharge rate then the standard 12 volt battery's. BUT they also wire them into a standard 12 volt charging system. This provides to much power to the battery's during the the charging cycle causing to much heat. Battery's (at least non sealed types) boil off the water when they overheat, resulting in them running out of water. If you check the sides of the battery you will probably also notice that they are slightly bowed. This is from the vents being unable to vent the steam from the water boiling quickly enough. In the worst case the case can break or crack from the pressure causing all sorts of problems, including the acid leaking all over the inside of your boat.
Be carefull about how completely you seal the battery's inside a container. When the battery's are being charged they produce hydrogen gas which is vented with the steam. Trapped hydrogen gas, especially when exposed to heat, sparks, etc, can cause its own special problems.............
They are bowed a little. They are wired to 12V, but maybe this charger cant figure it out. I have 2 scoops so the engine compartment does breathe more than others. It is only charging at 10 amps per pair. Should I junk the charger and get a special 6V one?
THANK YOU to everyone who has replied so far. This group of people ROCKS!!!! I will play with these different scenarios over the weekend and see what I can do.

Artimus
10-14-2004, 11:06 AM
I realize I'm just a stranger from Canada but, could you please let us know what the storage voltage is. The Trojans have a very high antimony content which makes them excellent for deep cycle applications but they tend to "drink water" especially when over charged.
Perhaps an auto timer like we use up here for our vehicle block heaters in the winter could be used to cyle the charger on for just an hour per day as a maintenance charge after they have been fully charged. If they are still pulling 10 amps after 2 days of charging, there may be something amis in your charger. You could also try a product called Thermoil (http://www.thermoilbatteries.com/main.htm) to reduce the water comsumption. I have never used the stuff myself but it looks interesting.
I don't think the diamondplate has anything to do with the water loss but the gasses emmited from the non sealed cells could cause a discoloration of the metal.
The golf cart 6V batts give the best performance/$ but require the most maintenance. Gels cost more and usually have somewhat less capacity but are lowest maintenance / cleaner.

Magic34
10-14-2004, 11:34 AM
Here is the charger I am using.......
Minnkota Charger (http://www.minnkotamotors.com/products/chargers/MK_330.asp)
Once again, each bank is wired to a pair of 6V batteries (to make 12V).

BoatFloating
10-14-2004, 12:11 PM
I had 4 Trojans in my boat for 1 1/2 years and added water to them only 1 time and it wasn't that much. Couple of things..... 1. I would lean to the fact your charger is overcharging that would be my bet. 2. I was told to only add water till it covered the plates by a 1/4 inch, this would keep the boiling over problem down. I know in a motor home plugged in all summer at Crazy Horse and on the charger/inverter it used a ton of water because when it's plugged in it was always charging the batteries. My bet would be that your batteries are shot now and will need to be replaced if you've ran them dry. I had good luck with the big roll a round Sears 60amp charger. I would look at that charger before you buy new batteries....

Artimus
10-14-2004, 01:08 PM
It looks like your batts are wired in 3 banks, with 2 - 6v per bank. These are then all wired parallel to act as one 12 volt 675ah battery and should be charged with a 12 volt charger. However, when you connect your 12v charger to each bank, they are effectively tied together by your existing wiring resulting in your charger acting as a single bank 12 volt 30 amp. Minkota states that there is nothing wrong with this wiring configuration but they do mention that your model was designed for up to 130 amp hour batteries (is that 3x130ah due to 3 charging banks? - I duno but it shouldn't matter).
It would take this charger about 48 hours to charge your setup from completely discharged to ~90% charged @ 14.2 volts. At this point, the charger should drop the voltage to about 13.2 volts as a storage charge to complete the last 10% charge and reduce electrolyte gassing (boiling).
How often do you use this system? If you have a multi-meter, get a voltage reading after the charger has been on for a few days (at least). You may even hear the batteries boiling in storage at this point.
I think BoatFloating is saying to use a bigger charger to bring them up to charge then disconnect the charger. Those big roll-a-rounds are good for that & emergency starting but you sure don't want to leave them hooked up for long periods, even on trickle charge. Todays "digital" or "switching" 3 stage chargers have cleaner supplies and are designed to be left on to prevent battery deterioration. If you are still getting good runtime from your batts, there is no need to replace them. What is BoatFloating running for batts now?
Forgive me for babbling on & on but I have spent a lot of time figuring this shtuff out for the electrical system on our houseboat. As Roz indicated, this could be normal water consumption for your climate and usage but it can't hurt to look into it. Maybe I am overlooking something too.

BoatFloating
10-14-2004, 01:18 PM
I use 2 Optimas now and a Honda 2000w Genny. That was the old boat..... The Sears charger I was talking about is fully automatic also....

Artimus
10-14-2004, 01:35 PM
OH, rrrriiiiiiggggghhhhhtt that setup. I forgot that was you!!! That is THE ultimate. Saves a lot of weight too! :supp:

77charger
10-14-2004, 07:09 PM
I have the us220s in my toyhauler and have only added about 16 oz of water over a 2 year period.When i go to the river i leave the trailer plugged in 24/7 from fri til sun and also store it there.they are in battery boxes too.
Next year i am getting them for my boat i get them for about 50 bucks from the golf cart shop next door to work