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BILLY.B
10-11-2004, 05:52 AM
If anyone out there has any paint questions on how too's i'd be happy to give info if needed.

woskie70
10-11-2004, 09:39 AM
i am looking into painting my boat and wonderd if i should paint it or gel coat it? what is better and what prices would i be looking at for each?

hallett 260
10-12-2004, 01:50 PM
I have a question. I had my boat painted down here by Rock and Roll Custom Paint. They did a great job on the air brushing and colors but a bad job on the clear coat. There is a ton of orange peel.
What can I do to get rid of the orange peel? How many coats of clear should be put on before color sanding?
Zach

cracker
10-12-2004, 10:41 PM
Billy,
would the problem be that they mixed the paint to the specks and should have added a little more reducer? I found that if I added a little more reducer than the recipe the orange peel tendency went away and it flowed better. Is there a drip test for that?

copperrat20
10-13-2004, 11:48 AM
Hey Billy,
I also have some questions for you. I recently had my boat painted. They sprayed the graphics on it then striped it and finally cleared over that. Now my father told me that back in the day, when you cleared over your work, that you couldn't feel any of the pin striping or blemishes that were in the basecoat. I can feel some of the striping and graphics edges that are under the clear. Should there be more clear on the boat where I shouldn't feel anything?

BILLY.B
10-14-2004, 06:15 AM
i am looking into painting my boat and wonderd if i should paint it or gel coat it? what is better and what prices would i be looking at for each? Let me first start off by saying i'm sorry for not replying sooner but when I put this thread up it didn't appear on the boards so I figured they (moderators) weren't going to let it fly. So with that said i'll try and answer the questions. I would think it would depend on what type of boat you have and what you do with it (gel or paint). If it's a family type boat and you have kids and friends walking on the deck and not much up keep taken i'd say gel it, more durable. If it's a river or lake racer i'd paint it just due to the krazy ideas you can come up with in paint. Cost for gel can be more labor intensive then paint hence cost goes up. All of the cost (gel or paint) depends on the size of the boat and how mild or wild you want it.

BILLY.B
10-14-2004, 06:23 AM
I have a question. I had my boat painted down here by Rock and Roll Custom Paint. They did a great job on the air brushing and colors but a bad job on the clear coat. There is a ton of orange peel.
What can I do to get rid of the orange peel? How many coats of clear should be put on before color sanding?
Zach Depending on how much clear they put on the boat will dictate how much you can colorsand to get it smooth. Did they ever colorsand and rub it themselves???. If so i'd call them and ask them how many coats they normally put on. If there's enough ( 4 to 5 ) coats of clear urethane you can start with 1500 wet or dry and go up to 2000 and then rub it out. We start with 1000 to 1500 to 2000, but that's because I know how much clear I have on a job. If the orange peel is really really bad it may need to be sanded down and re-cleared. If you need any more info you can pm me. Hope this helps you out.

BILLY.B
10-14-2004, 06:41 AM
Hey Billy,
I also have some questions for you. I recently had my boat painted. They sprayed the graphics on it then striped it and finally cleared over that. Now my father told me that back in the day, when you cleared over your work, that you couldn't feel any of the pin striping or blemishes that were in the basecoat. I can feel some of the striping and graphics edges that are under the clear. Should there be more clear on the boat where I shouldn't feel anything? There are tricks to the trade that can be done even before you clear coat to get rid of any edge's, and putting more material on a job isn't always the best answer. I for one HATE edge's, but getting rid of them translates into more cost because of the time it takes. One way that custom painters get rid of them is to clear the job even before pinstriping, colorsand the job, pinstripe it and then re-clear colorsand and rub it out. Believe it or not pinstipe colors tend to rise when there cleared over and can be felt ( just slightly), but should go away after being colorsanded and rubed out. One question for you...Did you add graphics to the gel or did you paint the whole boat????.

Rexone
10-14-2004, 08:57 AM
Let me first start off by saying i'm sorry for not replying sooner but when I put this thread up it didn't appear on the boards so I figured they (moderators) weren't going to let it fly.
While not starting out as a true How To topic I felt it had potential to grow into one being that you were gracious enough to offer your help. Thanks for the help Billy as I know painting is an area that is as much art as science and your insights and tips will be invaluable to forum members.
Just so you guys know the process in the How To forum... you submit a thread. It goes to a Moderation quere for approval before appearing online. If it meets the guidelines we approve it and it becomes visible here. If it doesn't its either moved to the appropriate forum (the common outcome) or deleted if it has no relavence to anything useful.

copperrat20
10-14-2004, 10:17 AM
There are tricks to the trade that can be done even before you clear coat to get rid of any edge's, and putting more material on a job isn't always the best answer. I for one HATE edge's, but getting rid of them translates into more cost because of the time it takes. One way that custom painters get rid of them is to clear the job even before pinstriping, colorsand the job, pinstripe it and then re-clear colorsand and rub it out. Believe it or not pinstipe colors tend to rise when there cleared over and can be felt ( just slightly), but should go away after being colorsanded and rubed out. One question for you...Did you add graphics to the gel or did you paint the whole boat????.
Well it was a hydro in pretty bad shape first off. So when I got it, I gutted it. Then I got my dad to cap it and help me flip it over to do the bottom. Then he gelled the whole bottom up to the cap. Then we flipped it and worked the top. Once the top was looking good we sprayed automotive paint on the top, then I had the graphics put on the top and the boat cleared all the way down to the runners on the sides and to the bottom of the sponsons. So the bottom is solid gel. So the only thing that I don't like is the clear. It has certain spots where there is pin holes and I don't know if the clear should fill that. And you can feel a slight edge on the graphics and striping. The whole boat was color sanded and buffed out after the clear was finished.

Some Kind Of Monster
10-14-2004, 10:43 PM
I wonder what the best way to go about repairing gel coat chips and matching the colors. I have a couple 2"x2" areas that need repair. I tried one of those kits and it turned out terrible. To make matters worse, one of the colors that needs repairing is a brown with a metal flake in it.

BILLY.B
10-15-2004, 04:08 AM
Well it was a hydro in pretty bad shape first off. So when I got it, I gutted it. Then I got my dad to cap it and help me flip it over to do the bottom. Then he gelled the whole bottom up to the cap. Then we flipped it and worked the top. Once the top was looking good we sprayed automotive paint on the top, then I had the graphics put on the top and the boat cleared all the way down to the runners on the sides and to the bottom of the sponsons. So the bottom is solid gel. So the only thing that I don't like is the clear. It has certain spots where there is pin holes and I don't know if the clear should fill that. And you can feel a slight edge on the graphics and striping. The whole boat was color sanded and buffed out after the clear was finished. Ok, if the pinholes are in the hull the clear won't fill them properly. It may look like it but overtime they'll turn to blisters and then you'll have a real mess. If the pinholes are in the clear it could be what we call solvent pop. In that case you could sand the hull and reclear it and that would also take care of your edge problem. Solvent pop is caused by applying to much material into short of time and by doing that your sealing the solvents in before they have a chance to get out, and when you colorsand the job they open up and leave what looks like a pinhole. The only real way to determine the problem would be to see it.

BILLY.B
10-15-2004, 04:16 AM
I wonder what the best way to go about repairing gel coat chips and matching the colors. I have a couple 2"x2" areas that need repair. I tried one of those kits and it turned out terrible. To make matters worse, one of the colors that needs repairing is a brown with a metal flake in it. This is a common problem ( matching colors) with gel coat especially with metal flake. When it comes to gel repair I send it to local fiberglass repair shop by me ( Pats fiberglass). Don who owns the business has several years under his belt and does a great job on everthing from race boats to your average ski boat especially when it comes to color matching. Why don't you give him a call ( 909-946-3089), tell him I told you to call him and tell him your situation and i'm sure he'd steer you in the right direction.

dmontzsta
10-15-2004, 10:48 AM
I have a question:
I have a 1964 LaveyCraft (as you might already know :D ) I have seriously been thinking of having it gelled since the white is looking pretty weird in some spots. It is a family boat that we go out and have fun with and race around a little bit. We do use the deck for loading and unloading passengers sometimes. My main question is, what paint scheme do you think would look cool? I would like to keep it white for the most part, but have some colors too. I would like it to have a "nostalgic" style paint job, something that would tell you it is from the 60s (MINUS METALFLAKE). Whoever did the gel last was obviously stuck in the 80s with the pink and blue. The bow design really fits the curves of the bow really well. Here is a pic below, do you have a style you could recommend?
http://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/dmontzsta%20pics/LakeElsinore7-11-04/100_1129.jpg
Thanks.

copperrat20
10-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Ok, if the pinholes are in the hull the clear won't fill them properly. It may look like it but overtime they'll turn to blisters and then you'll have a real mess. If the pinholes are in the clear it could be what we call solvent pop. In that case you could sand the hull and reclear it and that would also take care of your edge problem. Solvent pop is caused by applying to much material into short of time and by doing that your sealing the solvents in before they have a chance to get out, and when you colorsand the job they open up and leave what looks like a pinhole. The only real way to determine the problem would be to see it.
So when do you want to look at it?

Daytona 25
10-16-2004, 06:28 AM
Billy B
I have a white gelcoat that oxidized pretty bad over the some. I wheeled it with a heavy compound and wool pad, followed with finesse it and a foam pad. It came out pretty good but does not seem to keep the shine.
Would I have been better off wet sanding with 1500-2000 and then buffing?
Thanks for offering to help us all!

BILLY.B
10-17-2004, 03:14 PM
Billy B
I have a white gelcoat that oxidized pretty bad over the some. I wheeled it with a heavy compound and wool pad, followed with finesse it and a foam pad. It came out pretty good but does not seem to keep the shine.
Would I have been better off wet sanding with 1500-2000 and then buffing?
Thanks for offering to help us all! How old is the gel and is it kept outside????. In some cases colorsanding and rubbing will help it to stay shinny longer but if the boat is older it might be time to go to more drastic measures if you want that shine to last.

BILLY.B
10-17-2004, 03:27 PM
I have a question:
I have a 1964 LaveyCraft (as you might already know :D ) I have seriously been thinking of having it gelled since the white is looking pretty weird in some spots. It is a family boat that we go out and have fun with and race around a little bit. We do use the deck for loading and unloading passengers sometimes. My main question is, what paint scheme do you think would look cool? I would like to keep it white for the most part, but have some colors too. I would like it to have a "nostalgic" style paint job, something that would tell you it is from the 60s (MINUS METALFLAKE). Whoever did the gel last was obviously stuck in the 80s with the pink and blue. The bow design really fits the curves of the bow really well. Here is a pic below, do you have a style you could recommend?
http://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/dmontzsta%20pics/LakeElsinore7-11-04/100_1129.jpg
Thanks. If your gonna gel the whole thing i'd probably lean to putting the colors up the center of the deck and leave the areas that are blue and pink now white. Reason....i'm sure you walk on the side areas of the deck and if that was white it wouldn't tend to show the scratches as bad as a dark color. As far as colors go thats a personal preference. Back in the 60's popular colors were blue, red , yellow, orange, gold, black, pretty much every color except purple, pink, teal, and all that backwards tribal flame bullcrap. Then again you might want to be a trend setter and do something like that on your Lavey...LOL.

BILLY.B
10-17-2004, 03:29 PM
So when do you want to look at it? Anytime, call me and we'll set it up. 909-982-8555.

Kindsvater Flat
10-17-2004, 08:23 PM
Billy:
Is is better to shake the can upside down or right side up?

BILLY.B
10-18-2004, 05:36 AM
Billy:
Is is better to shake the can upside down or right side up? In your case i'd suggest a 4" brush and a nappy roller to get into the chips.

Daytona 25
10-18-2004, 10:31 AM
How old is the gel and is it kept outside????. In some cases colorsanding and rubbing will help it to stay shinny longer but if the boat is older it might be time to go to more drastic measures if you want that shine to last.
It is only a 2000. The colors are fine, it is just the white that was mildly oxidized. The boat is indoors all winter but is out in the elements for most of the summer.

BILLY.B
10-18-2004, 09:05 PM
It is only a 2000. The colors are fine, it is just the white that was mildly oxidized. The boat is indoors all winter but is out in the elements for most of the summer. You know we've done a few Eliminators and a few Halletts with the same problem. The white tends to go alittle dull and turns slightly yellow until you rub it out only to come back later. Sun has alot to do with it and I know that Eliminator used to put clear gel on there colors (in the mold) to protect there fades but I doubt that they would of cleared the white. All's I do know is that materials are not like they used to be due to EPA issues in So.Cal so I guess you just keep rubbing when needed, unless you want to clear the whole boat.

Daytona 25
10-19-2004, 07:20 AM
You know we've done a few Eliminators and a few Halletts with the same problem. The white tends to go alittle dull and turns slightly yellow until you rub it out only to come back later. Sun has alot to do with it and I know that Eliminator used to put clear gel on there colors (in the mold) to protect there fades but I doubt that they would of cleared the white. All's I do know is that materials are not like they used to be due to EPA issues in So.Cal so I guess you just keep rubbing when needed, unless you want to clear the whole boat.
Well that explains why the colors look like new. Thanks for your advice. I am sure everyone appreciates your contibution to this forum!

dtr352
10-20-2004, 09:36 AM
I just bought a set of fiberglass fenders for my offroad truck. Before I install them I would like to paint them to mach the truck. They come gel coated white. I know I will need to do some prep with body filler to get them perfectly straight or close to it. After that I am clueless. I know I have to prime paint clear sand and buff but how much, how many coats of each. Also where can I find paint to mach the truck. It is 97 gmc white. This is my first paint project that has to look good and mach not just prevent corosion. Any info you could share would be great.

BILLY.B
10-21-2004, 05:16 AM
I just bought a set of fiberglass fenders for my offroad truck. Before I install them I would like to paint them to mach the truck. They come gel coated white. I know I will need to do some prep with body filler to get them perfectly straight or close to it. After that I am clueless. I know I have to prime paint clear sand and buff but how much, how many coats of each. Also where can I find paint to mach the truck. It is 97 gmc white. This is my first paint project that has to look good and mach not just prevent corosion. Any info you could share would be great. Are they really wavie or have flaws???. Because if they don't you can save a step and some $$$$$$. If they need filler then your gonna have to prime them, if not you could sand them with 320 wet or dry, spray the base coat. then clear coat. You could remove the gas door or any small part that is easy to remove and take it to your local automotive paint supply store and they can match it for you. Now there is a charge for this, anywhere from $25-$40.00 , but it's usually worth it if you don't know and if you don't have any other colors to help you match the truck. As far as how many coats....If you have to primer them you'll have to put at least three good coats to cover your body work so you have enough to sand down to get smooth for paint. If you break through the primer mix up enough to spot in that area as that will make it easier for your base coat to cover evenly. Color coats I usually put just enough to bring the color up to what I what (or match). After that 2 to 3 coats of clear and your ready to colorsand and rub. Another thing I recommend is to go to your local window tinter and they now have a product that you can put on the area of your flares ( wheel well area) that will get pounded by pebbles or other crap and it will help in keeping the area from getting all chipped up. It's clear so you won't even know it's there. Good luck.

insanity
10-21-2004, 10:55 AM
Billy,
Do you have any time to paint after answering all these questions? I think you remember my Cole TR-2 "Instant Insanity". Bill Carter (the other Bill) painted it back in 1982 and Steve Stanford did the lettering and pinstripping. It still looks bitchen even though it hasn't seen water in a few years. The lettering Steve did is over the paint (clear coated pearls). I want to remove and or alter some of the lettering. Is there a clean way to remove the simple brushed lettering without damaging the paint underneath? Thanks in advance for the help.
Greg Martin

BILLY.B
10-22-2004, 07:15 AM
Billy,
Do you have any time to paint after answering all these questions? I think you remember my Cole TR-2 "Instant Insanity". Bill Carter (the other Bill) painted it back in 1982 and Steve Stanford did the lettering and pinstripping. It still looks bitchen even though it hasn't seen water in a few years. The lettering Steve did is over the paint (clear coated pearls). I want to remove and or alter some of the lettering. Is there a clean way to remove the simple brushed lettering without damaging the paint underneath? Thanks in advance for the help.
Greg Martin Greg there are a couple of ways but the easiest way is EZ-OFF oven cleaner. Mask off around the name with news paper or masking paper (couple of layers) as the oven cleaner will attack anodizing and discolor it. Spray a small area at a time and let sit for a minute or so. I usually will test a small area at a time to see how long I can let it sit before it starts to react to the lettering, some lettering is thicker then others and will take alittle longer to get off and you don't want the oven cleaner to sit on there to long as it can (but not likely) eat at the paint job, use a bondo spreader to get off the lettering and respray as necesary. One tip...Don't saturate one area, move to the next area and come back to the other areas that need attention later. Now not all the lettering will usually come off so I take 1000 wet or dry (use water) to get the rest off and finish with 1500 W/D. Then rub out and polish. There will be more then likely a dark area where the name was, so then it's up to you from there as what to do next. Sorry for the long reply, I just don't want to see you mess up that nice paint job. Carter was truly a pioneer in the world of custom painting. In fact I went to his shop back in 78 looking for a job and he told me as I was looking around that his insurance didn't cover looky lou's so I left. Hence I started my own business...

insanity
10-25-2004, 04:44 AM
Billy,
Thanks for the info. I want to take the "AZ" numbers off of the front and put the new "CF" numbers on. I talked to Bill Carter about a year ago, He is still painting, mostly bikes.
Greg

Community
10-26-2004, 07:37 AM
Where is a good place to get finesse?

BILLY.B
10-27-2004, 07:42 AM
Where is a good place to get finesse? Any auto body supply shop in your area should carry it.

carreraboat
10-27-2004, 12:25 PM
What about an older boat that has flake? it sat outside and now you can kinda feel the flake can you just clear over it to help bring it back

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
10-27-2004, 09:43 PM
Well billy I am going to jump into this thread since I am getting ready to have my hull sprayed. I have gell cracks all around my bow. How do I fix them before we shoot it? I have hear that you have to grind them out!!!! That is alot of grinding!!!! If I remember correctly, cyclone's boat was resprayed and they used something (like a filler) to go over the cracks. I asked them what they use but they seemed to blow me off. i know there is some easier way to fill them in besies grinding them all out and glassing them in. The bottom an sides are painted but the top has to be finished. Then I can start rigging. Any info is appreciated;)
396(michael)

BILLY.B
10-28-2004, 06:23 AM
What about an older boat that has flake? it sat outside and now you can kinda feel the flake can you just clear over it to help bring it backWhen you can feel the flake that means the clear gelcoat that was used to protect it when it was sprayed in the mold for protecting the flake is gone. This is from sitting outside over years and the sun has taken it's toll. I would imagine the color is also faded out and all the clear is going to do is bring back the shine, but thats not always true either as the flake will act as a sponge and suck alot of the clear up and you'll end up with a some what shiney flake non skid. Best bet is to repaint and that brings on a whole new set of things to deal with. Are there any splits on the deck?, kinda like laquer checking?. Let me know what you decide to do and if I can be of any help.

BILLY.B
10-28-2004, 06:38 AM
Well billy I am going to jump into this thread since I am getting ready to have my hull sprayed. I have gell cracks all around my bow. How do I fix them before we shoot it? I have hear that you have to grind them out!!!! That is alot of grinding!!!! If I remember correctly, cyclone's boat was resprayed and they used something (like a filler) to go over the cracks. I asked them what they use but they seemed to blow me off. i know there is some easier way to fill them in besies grinding them all out and glassing them in. The bottom an sides are painted but the top has to be finished. Then I can start rigging. Any info is appreciated;)
396(michael) Well if you just but a filler over the cracks it's like putting a band aid on a broken arm...."AIN'T GONNA WORK"!!!. After time they will come back and you will have wished you'd of spent the time to do it right, especially if your going to go through all the time to paint it. You have to grind out the cracks lay some glass, block sand until you've featherd into the original gelcoat. You can use a little filler to blend and put an epoxy primer to finish it in before painting. Believe me...Spend the time now or you'll regret it later.

carreraboat
10-28-2004, 07:19 AM
no cracks it looks good wet is the reason i thought i could just use some clear

dtr352
10-28-2004, 08:11 PM
Ok. I got the fenders all primed and sanded today. I would like to do the color tomoroww afternoon. How much time should I leave between coats. The primer can said to add hardener and repeat coats every 15min no more then three coats. What about color. Besides thiner does it need hardener too. Thanks for the help.

BILLY.B
10-28-2004, 09:17 PM
no cracks it looks good wet is the reason i thought i could just use some clear If the color still looks good and there are no cracks .....go for it, good luck.

BILLY.B
10-28-2004, 09:27 PM
Ok. I got the fenders all primed and sanded today. I would like to do the color tomoroww afternoon. How much time should I leave between coats. The primer can said to add hardener and repeat coats every 15min no more then three coats. What about color. Besides thiner does it need hardener too. Thanks for the help. I'm confused, do you mean the clear can said to add hardner seeing as you have already primed the parts??. If the color is a base coat color it usually doesn't need a hardner. If it's Dupont for example it uses a different type reducer that will activate the color. Same with PPG's basecoat. PPG has two different type of basecoats with two different type of reducers. So to anwer your question i'd need to know what type of material your using. Put enough paint on to bring up to the color of the truck, waiting about 10 to 15 min between coats. When your satisfied then you can clear. Wait about 30 minutes after your last basecoat coat before you clear just to make sure all the solvents have gotten out. Put 2 to 3 coats of clear and you should be done. Good luck.

dtr352
10-29-2004, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the help. I will shoot the color and clear today. I will try to post a pic of the finished product when Im done.

dtr352
10-29-2004, 04:09 PM
the color is done. Should it be sanded at all before the clear or will just color sanding the clear be enough to get rid of the orange peal.

beyondhelpin
10-30-2004, 12:24 PM
If anyone out there has any paint questions on how too's i'd be happy to give info if needed.
Wow! You are a brave man to step out like this!!!!! Cool move.
I do a lot of paint on my on stuff. Just picked it up a few years ago. Repaint the bike every year. I know just enough to be dangerous! But with enough time I can make it come out good. I will post a pic of my last attempt this spring. My boat was the first thing I ever painted and it is getting a little dated. Checkers!
Now for my question. I would guess there is a clear gel? I want to do a new paint sceme that will be a big eye catcher, so I probally want to use regular paint for it. I also want it to be tough as we are rafting up with people alot! Can I use a clear gel over the top of paint and if so is there any gotchas to watch out for? Thanks!
My last job this spring on the scooter.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/81DSCF0025-med.JPG
Nothing special but my first attempt at paint.
[IMG]http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/81IW4I1516_sized.jpg

BILLY.B
11-02-2004, 06:29 AM
the color is done. Should it be sanded at all before the clear or will just color sanding the clear be enough to get rid of the orange peal. Sorry but I haven't been able to get on the forums. So to answer your question you shouldn't need to sand the base unless there's some dirt or foreign stuff that landed in the color when spraying. Clear and then color sand if needed.

BILLY.B
11-02-2004, 06:37 AM
Wow! You are a brave man to step out like this!!!!! Cool move.
I do a lot of paint on my on stuff. Just picked it up a few years ago. Repaint the bike every year. I know just enough to be dangerous! But with enough time I can make it come out good. I will post a pic of my last attempt this spring. My boat was the first thing I ever painted and it is getting a little dated. Checkers!
Now for my question. I would guess there is a clear gel? I want to do a new paint sceme that will be a big eye catcher, so I probally want to use regular paint for it. I also want it to be tough as we are rafting up with people alot! Can I use a clear gel over the top of paint and if so is there any gotchas to watch out for? Thanks!
My last job this spring on the scooter.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/81DSCF0025-med.JPG
Nothing special but my first attempt at paint.
[IMG]http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/81IW4I1516_sized.jpg Nice looking stuff. Trying to put gel over paint can give you problems as they are two different property's. Clear gel also tends to yellow alot quicker then automotive clear. Have you ever worked with gel?, it's a pain in the _ss and takes alot of labor to get a bitchen job. I still feel there are enough tough clears out there that would work for your application that would be alot easier for you to work with. I'm going to the SEMA show in Las Vegas and will find out what new clears are out there and if I find out anything i'll let you know.

lucky
11-02-2004, 12:33 PM
hey billy - Do you do repairs at your shop - the old man spilled gas on his and the paint is decent - he does not want to redo the whole boat ( I do ) lol - wondering if you would be interested and what is your lead time if you where to do it ?

Mr. Crusader 83
11-02-2004, 08:34 PM
MY 83 CRUSADER JET NEEDS HELP. THE PAINT IS JUST A LITTLE FADED. SHOULD I PAINT OR WET SAND. HOW DO YOU WET SAND IT AND BUFF IT. WILL IT REALLY HELP? ANY HOW TO HELP ON WET SANDING WOULD BE GREAT./ THANKS GUYS LOWTOY@ADELPHIA.NET

BILLY.B
11-04-2004, 05:46 AM
hey billy - Do you do repairs at your shop - the old man spilled gas on his and the paint is decent - he does not want to redo the whole boat ( I do ) lol - wondering if you would be interested and what is your lead time if you where to do it ? We do repairs, and i'd have to have you call and set up a date.

BILLY.B
11-04-2004, 06:02 AM
MY 83 CRUSADER JET NEEDS HELP. THE PAINT IS JUST A LITTLE FADED. SHOULD I PAINT OR WET SAND. HOW DO YOU WET SAND IT AND BUFF IT. WILL IT REALLY HELP? ANY HOW TO HELP ON WET SANDING WOULD BE GREAT./ THANKS GUYS LOWTOY@ADELPHIA.NET If there's enough paint you can give color sanding a try, if there's not enough paint you could be repainting it anyway as you will go through the color. Color sanding and buffing should be done by a professional if you don't have any experience, but if you decide to go for it try a small area first and make sure it will work and come out like you want it to. Take a piece of 1500 wet or dry with a bucket of water and a small amount of soap in it to allow the sandpaper to slide better when your sanding. Back and forth motion (not in circles) and just enough to get rid of the problem. Buff out with 3m micro finishing compound and then buff with a polishing compound ( takes two different type buffing pads) and you should be good to go. You might just try buffing the boat first and if that doesn't work for you could go with the color sanding.

Norseman
11-06-2004, 06:07 AM
If anyone out there has any paint questions on how too's i'd be happy to give info if needed.
Billy;
What's the best way to strip flaking paint off gel coat.
I'm planning on repainting the Rayson over the winter, and what's on it now has to come off.
A couple of local shops suggested media blasting, what do you think???
What about chemical stripping??
Thanks;
Bob

BILLY.B
11-06-2004, 07:00 AM
Billy;
What's the best way to strip flaking paint off gel coat.
I'm planning on repainting the Rayson over the winter, and what's on it now has to come off.
A couple of local shops suggested media blasting, what do you think???
What about chemical stripping??
Thanks;
Bob Media blasting is scary. It can be done but the guy behind the gun had better know what he's doing or he'll put waves in the hull. I'm not saying it can't be done they just have to be extremly carefull. You can do it with chemical. The product that I use is called JASCO and can be found at Lowes or Home Depot. You do small sections at a time (12"x12") until you feel comfortable with what your doing. Depending on the paint that was used could determine the lenght of time it will take to get off. It sounds like laquer so it might go quick. Pour some into a container, grab a cheap brush and go for it. I spread on a thick amount and just wait. Sounds like Rice Crispies when you pour milk on them and when it stops lifting the paint use a bondo spreader and scrap it into a container (not plastic). Spray the area you've striped with water to neutralize it , dry and continue to the next spot. A couple of tips.... (1) Don't try to get all of the paint off each area all at once as this can cause the striper to saturate into the gel coat and attack the glass. Move on to the next spot and so on. You can come back later or the next day. If it does attack the gel and get into the glass don't freak out it can be fixed easily.(2) Always flush and dry the area you've striped before you move on. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. Sounds complicated but it just takes time and will usually come out nicer if done right.

Norseman
11-06-2004, 09:27 AM
Media blasting is scary. It can be done but the guy behind the gun had better know what he's doing or he'll put waves in the hull. I'm not saying it can't be done they just have to be extremly carefull. You can do it with chemical. The product that I use is called JASCO and can be found at Lowes or Home Depot. You do small sections at a time (12"x12") until you feel comfortable with what your doing. Depending on the paint that was used could determine the lenght of time it will take to get off. It sounds like laquer so it might go quick. Pour some into a container, grab a cheap brush and go for it. I spread on a thick amount and just wait. Sounds like Rice Crispies when you pour milk on them and when it stops lifting the paint use a bondo spreader and scrap it into a container (not plastic). Spray the area you've striped with water to neutralize it , dry and continue to the next spot. A couple of tips.... (1) Don't try to get all of the paint off each area all at once as this can cause the striper to saturate into the gel coat and attack the glass. Move on to the next spot and so on. You can come back later or the next day. If it does attack the gel and get into the glass don't freak out it can be fixed easily.(2) Always flush and dry the area you've striped before you move on. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. Sounds complicated but it just takes time and will usually come out nicer if done right.
Billy;
Thanks!!
I've seen a couple of nice cars ruined with sand blasting....
The guy doing the work used a too agressive sand. I've had better luck using other types of media, like glass beads or ground walnut shells.
I think I'll give the chemical stripper a try and stay away from media blasting.
Sounds like I need to make sure to work slow and nuetralize each section right away.
What do you use to nuetralize the stuff if it sinks into the gel, still water???
Thanks for the help!!!
I apprecriate it!!!!!
Bob

BILLY.B
11-07-2004, 11:57 AM
Bob you always use water to neutralize the stripper even if it gets into the glass. If it gets into the glass every so often wash the area out and let dry. One thing I didn't tell you is the stripper will make the gel swell alittle but that will go down after awhile or when you sand the hull. If you come across some areas that don't want to come off move on and sand those areas later. I usually stay with 80grit sand paper as a heavier grit can sometimes take off to much material especially on rolled edges or reverse curves. When you get to an area that your sander won't do don't force it as it will leave grooves that you'll have to fill later, and always keep the sander flat and go with the contour of the area your working. Alot of inexpericed people will tilt the DA sander on it's edge to remove paint or just to sand and that will leave grooves that appear later when it's painted if the priming and blocking isn't done right. Let me know how it's going. Remember there aren't any stupid questions, just stupid mistakes that can be prevented....Believe me i've made them!!!!!.

Norseman
11-07-2004, 03:42 PM
Bob you always use water to neutralize the stripper even if it gets into the glass. If it gets into the glass every so often wash the area out and let dry. One thing I didn't tell you is the stripper will make the gel swell alittle but that will go down after awhile or when you sand the hull. If you come across some areas that don't want to come off move on and sand those areas later. I usually stay with 80grit sand paper as a heavier grit can sometimes take off to much material especially on rolled edges or reverse curves. When you get to an area that your sander won't do don't force it as it will leave grooves that you'll have to fill later, and always keep the sander flat and go with the contour of the area your working. Alot of inexpericed people will tilt the DA sander on it's edge to remove paint or just to sand and that will leave grooves that appear later when it's painted if the priming and blocking isn't done right. Let me know how it's going. Remember there aren't any stupid questions, just stupid mistakes that can be prevented....Believe me i've made them!!!!!.
Billy;
Thanks for all thhe information!!! Looks like I have to buy a new DA, mine seems to have suffered a major stroke. ;)
I'll pick up the stripper this week.
I'm going to try and get most of the paint off and the hull prepped before it get too cold out this way. I figure the mechanical stuff can get done in the bad weather, but since the boat has to sit outside I need to jump on atleast getting it stripped and ready for paint pretty quick. We have already had a couple of good frost in the morning, and most of the leaves are now gone....
I'm thinking about picking up one of those tent things so I can keep the boat covered and maybe work on it a little during Jan and Feb, plus after it's stripped I would like to keep it covered.
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions over the next couple of months!
Thanks for taking the time to answer them!!!!
Bob

Brian Ray
12-06-2004, 04:03 PM
Billy B.,
I have a 21ft '75 daycruiser that needs a little help with the bottom. Prior owners chewed the heck out of the bottom and I would like to get it redone. Current color is white....What would be the cost on having someone redo the bottom. I would prefer gel for durability. What about speed coat?? There are quite a few chunks that have been taken outta of the bottom, it's awfully thin in some area's. I will eventually get the entire boat repainted but some area's of the bottom have me concerned....
Not paint related but I'm sure you might know the answer to this...one of the skaggs where the intake grate is located at is pretty chewed up....could a new skagg be heliarked (sp.??) into place??
By reading this you can get a good idea about how bad the bottom is....
Thanks for your help.....
-Brian

BILLY.B
12-07-2004, 06:09 AM
Brian there are a couple of guy's we use to do this kinda work. I would also recommend gel on the bottom as it would be more durable. Pat's fiberglass in Upland (909-946-3089) ask for Don and tell him what you want done. Todd n Juzz who goes on these boards also does nice work and he could do this type of job also. If you can't find him you can call me (909-982-8555) and i'll give you his #. The grate would probably need to be replaced to be done right.

Brian Ray
12-07-2004, 08:56 AM
Thank Billy B. for the contact info....I will shoot Todd n Juzz a PM.
-Brian

syndicate
12-07-2004, 01:03 PM
Hey Billy, how's it going? We are getting ready to paint my car and I have a couple questions. I bought some urethane bumpers for it and i plan on using acrylic enamel (cheap color so i can sell it.) What is the best way to prep these, da, block? And will I have to use a flexing agent so the paint won't peel and flake off? Thanks a lot Billy, I appreciate the help.
CALEB

BILLY.B
12-08-2004, 07:58 AM
Hey Billy, how's it going? We are getting ready to paint my car and I have a couple questions. I bought some urethane bumpers for it and i plan on using acrylic enamel (cheap color so i can sell it.) What is the best way to prep these, da, block? And will I have to use a flexing agent so the paint won't peel and flake off? Thanks a lot Billy, I appreciate the help.
CALEB Use either 320 or 400 wet or dry and use water. I put some soap in a bucket with water and sand throughly. The soap helps clean and sand easier. You don't have to use a flex agent but i'd advise it. We use to use Dupont Centari acrylic enamel on Corvettes when we'd do them and never had a problem with peeling or flaking, and the color stayed consistent. As you may notice from time to time the bumpers don't match the car when they are painted seperately so i'd do them at the same time without flex agent and the'd match perfect. But with today's products being so EPA correct who knows if you'd get the same flexabilitywithout the flex agent. Good luck.

AMC-Nut
12-08-2004, 11:15 AM
Hey All,
I am thinking about keeping my CVX-20 but need to figure out what to do with the paint. Everyone tells me something different. Here is the best picture of what I have to work with:
http://members.cox.net/ryan.bailey/P1010105.JPG
The back of the boat is much worse and feels "granular" in some areas.
http://members.cox.net/ryan.bailey/P1010107.JPG
I wouldn't mind just doing the top of the boat with paint and redoing the bottom with gel repair. Maybe paint just above the bumber rail. I assume I should do something when the interior is out which will be soon.
A couple of people have told me that I can just wet send the boat and then have it clear coated, while others have told me that I need a complete paint job. I have seen tons of boats running around with bad paint and don't want to do something that will just peel off this summer. What should I do and how should I go about doing it. I really don't want to spend $5k on a new paint job and would like to try to do it myself. I have access to a spray booth and have a couple of Sata guns.

BILLY.B
12-08-2004, 02:21 PM
Hey All,
I am thinking about keeping my CVX-20 but need to figure out what to do with the paint. Everyone tells me something different. Here is the best picture of what I have to work with:
http://members.cox.net/ryan.bailey/P1010105.JPG
The back of the boat is much worse and feels "granular" in some areas.
http://members.cox.net/ryan.bailey/P1010107.JPG
I wouldn't mind just doing the top of the boat with paint and redoing the bottom with gel repair. Maybe paint just above the bumber rail. I assume I should do something when the interior is out which will be soon.
A couple of people have told me that I can just wet send the boat and then have it clear coated, while others have told me that I need a complete paint job. I have seen tons of boats running around with bad paint and don't want to do something that will just peel off this summer. What should I do and how should I go about doing it. I really don't want to spend $5k on a new paint job and would like to try to do it myself. I have access to a spray booth and have a couple of Sata guns. It would take along time to explain what to do with this boat , but if you can rub your hand across the hull and get silver flake off on your palm chances are your gonna need to re-paint. Are there a bunch of spider cracks like lacquer ck?????. If so you need to get all the flake off and start from scratch or all of those will come back after a few months / years. After sanding everything down until smooth you'd primer with a good catalized primer. Once thats done you block sand to make sure you've fixed all the inperfections and then paint. Lots of hard labor to get an old flake job ready to paint. But having a CVX restored would be worth it. Just ask James Bond !!!!!

AMC-Nut
12-08-2004, 02:42 PM
There are no spiderwebs, at least not like the ones my buddies' Sea Ray has, it does have very very fine hair like things in a few areas that I think are cracks but I'm not sure.. You can see some in the bow picture. No flake comes off the bow, but I think it has already come off the back since it has a granular feel. So are you suggesting a complete paint job? If so do you have any referances for a shop in the Phoenix Valley? I think I would go back to the original metal flake if I was going to repaint the whole boat.

HammerDown
12-08-2004, 03:02 PM
Here's the quick rundown. I bought it 7 seasons ago used. I did the whole 1500-2000 micro fine color sand/buff and it looks great.
Now it still looks like a new boat ONLY if I polish and wax every other trip out...or so. I don't feel comfortable color sanding again because I think the fade will come back soon again.
You're thoughts on automotive clear over the Gel...AND...will that lock out sun fading powers and lock in the deep luster.
Another words, will the gel still fade under the clear and also peel.
Thanks...Ray
PS. there is alot of Black in the 7 color's...and the black is the biggest fight against fade.

BILLY.B
12-09-2004, 07:48 AM
Here's the quick rundown. I bought it 7 seasons ago used. I did the whole 1500-2000 micro fine color sand/buff and it looks great.
Now it still looks like a new boat ONLY if I polish and wax every other trip out...or so. I don't feel comfortable color sanding again because I think the fade will come back soon again.
You're thoughts on automotive clear over the Gel...AND...will that lock out sun fading powers and lock in the deep luster.
Another words, will the gel still fade under the clear and also peel.
Thanks...Ray
PS. there is alot of Black in the 7 color's...and the black is the biggest fight against fade. We have re-clearded quite a few gel jobs and they have come out quite nice, in fact better then I thought, and one of them was metalflake. Does the black look cloudy (is that what you mean by FADED), if it does chances are it's the clear gel over the black that is giving you the problems. You could colorsand the boat with 400 wet and reclear to bring the luster back and it should stay. One way I ck out what it will look like when cleared is to run water over it after your done sanding and that should give you some indication of how it will look. You could also blend some automotive black paint over the faded areas seeing as your gonna re-clear anyway. If you have anymore ?????? let me know.

BILLY.B
12-09-2004, 07:51 AM
There are no spiderwebs, at least not like the ones my buddies' Sea Ray has, it does have very very fine hair like things in a few areas that I think are cracks but I'm not sure.. You can see some in the bow picture. No flake comes off the bow, but I think it has already come off the back since it has a granular feel. So are you suggesting a complete paint job? If so do you have any referances for a shop in the Phoenix Valley? I think I would go back to the original metal flake if I was going to repaint the whole boat.If you go back to flake your gonna spend some serious dollars as that requires alot of labor to get it smooth when done, and alot of clear if your looking to duplicate what you have.

You Te
12-10-2004, 08:31 AM
Gel coat weight is about 10 pounds per gallon and even though you sand and buff, the weight is still there.
I did a gel job on a 18 foot boat inside and out, 5 gallons of gel.
I weighed the boat before and then after the gel job, it gained 48 LBS.
I learned alot about gel work and striping, I had a quotes from $6000 to $8000 so I did the job myself.
After I got done I could see why people charge so much for that type of work, what a MAJOR pain in the ass.
You Te

ctchndltgo
12-10-2004, 11:49 AM
Billy ,I'm new to this hole boat game, I am painting my boat in Nason 419-99 Lime Green Metallic, I live on the oregon coast and am wondering what clear would be the best product to use here, only run in fresh water.

BILLY.B
12-11-2004, 07:50 AM
Billy ,I'm new to this hole boat game, I am painting my boat in Nason 419-99 Lime Green Metallic, I live on the oregon coast and am wondering what clear would be the best product to use here, only run in fresh water. Are you using a basecoat or a urethane enamel?. If your using a basecoat you could use any urethane clear you wanted, but you might ck with the local paint store where you purchased the paint and ask them if Nason makes a clear or not. If not i'd go with a Dupont clear as they own Nason and chances are they'd be more compatable with each other. I use PPg clear so I can't remember the Dupont code # for there clear but I know they have a good product.

HammerDown
12-12-2004, 12:11 PM
We have re-clearded quite a few gel jobs and they have come out quite nice, in fact better then I thought, and one of them was metalflake. Does the black look cloudy (is that what you mean by FADED), if it does chances are it's the clear gel over the black that is giving you the problems. You could colorsand the boat with 400 wet and reclear to bring the luster back and it should stay. One way I ck out what it will look like when cleared is to run water over it after your done sanding and that should give you some indication of how it will look. You could also blend some automotive black paint over the faded areas seeing as your gonna re-clear anyway. If you have anymore ?????? let me know.
Thanks for the Reply...
There is (no) clear over the black Gel area's. Actually the only (clear over Gel)is on a section of the Deck/Bow, and it's over a Brown fade. (looks great)!
The area's of concern are mostly just the Black in the 7 color's. And yes it will cloud after a few trips out on top side and where the water line washes away the Polish/Wax. The Black Hull/underside is fine.
I have no problem clearing the whole boat (top and sides)...but as asked prior, will the Black Gel (again) fade under the clear? Or will the UV protectors in the clear "lock in" the deep rich pigment?
Thanks...Ray
PS .any particular type of clear best for over Gel applications?
My brother seems to like Glazerd (sp) products...I call it that Bird paint..lol

V-DRIVE VIDEO
12-14-2004, 04:35 PM
Billys computer is temporarily down. He will catch up asap with Q and A.

BILLY.B
12-21-2004, 08:51 PM
Computer is back working so if you need help with paint let me know.

FlatStupid
12-21-2004, 09:13 PM
Dear Mr. BillyB. - I'm flat stupid's wife - FLAT stupid, and I would like to see a picture of the 76' Sanger. Fred said it was Bitchen' so I must see.

mexrunner
12-21-2004, 10:21 PM
i used a gel coat last year on my tahiti from rev chem plastics in riato and in stead of using wax in it they had a reducer/activator which was great because you just painted and color sanded like a normal single stage paint. was wondering if any one else ever heard of or used it.

BILLY.B
12-25-2004, 07:03 AM
i used a gel coat last year on my tahiti from rev chem plastics in riato and in stead of using wax in it they had a reducer/activator which was great because you just painted and color sanded like a normal single stage paint. was wondering if any one else ever heard of or used it. We use there product alot for the floors ( clear). Seeing as we do only paint I haven't sparyed there gel but i've heard it's very nice stuff and easy to work with.

72 Hondo
01-08-2005, 04:34 PM
Hi Billy, I talked to you a couple of months ago about repainting my Hondo (painted by California Ideas) I have since decided to strip it back to the original gel coat and restore it. The original Hondo scalopes were the only thing painted, the rest of the boat is still original white gel. What is the best or easiest way to do this?
THANKS,

BILLY.B
01-08-2005, 04:54 PM
Hi Billy, I talked to you a couple of months ago about repainting my Hondo (painted by California Ideas) I have since decided to strip it back to the original gel coat and restore it. The original Hondo scalopes were the only thing painted, the rest of the boat is still original white gel. What is the best or easiest way to do this?
THANKS,Are you going to re-paint the whole boat or just the scalopes?.

72 Hondo
01-09-2005, 02:36 AM
California Ideas only shot paint over the scalopes the original colors were comp. orange w/ gold outline and the white gel was never touched. I just need to get the car paint off the scalopes and bring back the original gel.
THANKS,

BILLY.B
01-09-2005, 09:14 AM
California Ideas only shot paint over the scalopes the original colors were comp. orange w/ gold outline and the white gel was never touched. I just need to get the car paint off the scalopes and bring back the original gel.
THANKS, There's a couple of different ways but i'd probably mask off the gel-coat and use a striper for fiberglass and do it that way. Once it was striped off you'd have to sand the area ( 500, to 800 to 1200-to 2000) to get out the sand scratches that California Ideas put in that area to get the paint to stick, then rub the area out. Hopefully there's enough gel-coat to do this. The reason i'd strip it off instead of sanding it off is so that I left enough material to do the above that I stated. Good luck.

wsuwrhr
01-09-2005, 09:19 AM
Billy,
Do you think I can strip the pychadelic(sp?) orange off the cap on the Hondo just like you are doing to the funny car body?
maybe you already told me that.
Brian

72 Hondo
01-09-2005, 11:27 AM
There's a couple of different ways but i'd probably mask off the gel-coat and use a striper for fiberglass and do it that way. Once it was striped off you'd have to sand the area ( 500, to 800 to 1200-to 2000) to get out the sand scratches that California Ideas put in that area to get the paint to stick, then rub the area out. Hopefully there's enough gel-coat to do this. The reason i'd strip it off instead of sanding it off is so that I left enough material to do the above that I stated. Good luck.
Paint stripper for Corvette bodies maybe?

BILLY.B
01-09-2005, 05:11 PM
Paint stripper for Corvette bodies maybe?Exactly. Or you can use a striper from a company called JASCO. You can find it at Lowes or Home Depot. It will start crackling like rice crispies when you pour milk on them. Once that stops you use a bondo spreader to scrap off the lifted paint and you can put it in a box. Then take a very wet rag to the area you just striped so as to get rid of any residue left by the striper as it will continue to eat at the gel-coat. When your done striping you can scrub the area with Comet and lots of water, dry it off and you should be ready to go. If you have to do any re-painting wait a couple of weeks to make sure you don't have any repercussions from the striper.

72 Hondo
01-09-2005, 10:48 PM
Exactly. Or you can use a striper from a company called JASCO. You can find it at Lowes or Home Depot. It will start crackling like rice crispies when you pour milk on them. Once that stops you use a bondo spreader to scrap off the lifted paint and you can put it in a box. Then take a very wet rag to the area you just striped so as to get rid of any residue left by the striper as it will continue to eat at the gel-coat. When your done striping you can scrub the area with Comet and lots of water, dry it off and you should be ready to go. If you have to do any re-painting wait a couple of weeks to make sure you don't have any repercussions from the striper.
GREAT! Thanks for taking the time.

Santana
01-11-2005, 11:02 AM
Is it better to paint a boat with base coat clear coat or enamel? Which one will give a better finish? Or does it even matter?
Thanks

BILLY.B
01-12-2005, 06:26 AM
Is it better to paint a boat with base coat clear coat or enamel? Which one will give a better finish? Or does it even matter?
ThanksDepends on what your doing. If it's a single color and non metallic you could go single stage, but if you plan on doing colors and depending on the base color i'd clear coat it as that will bury the paint edge and give more protection.

Santana
01-12-2005, 09:04 AM
Depends on what your doing. If it's a single color and non metallic you could go single stage, but if you plan on doing colors and depending on the base color i'd clear coat it as that will bury the paint edge and give more protection.
I think maybe my question should have been painting with acrylic or enamel?

pebo
01-12-2005, 10:25 PM
Paint Ques.? Repainting a Hondo that was neglected. It looked like it had lacquer checks on the deck. After stripping the paint you can still see quite a few of them. What now? (they are not stress cracks)

BILLY.B
01-13-2005, 06:58 AM
Paint Ques.? Repainting a Hondo that was neglected. It looked like it had lacquer checks on the deck. After stripping the paint you can still see quite a few of them. What now? (they are not stress cracks)If the cracks are still there and they are not stress cracks you could have alot of work in front of you. The cracks ( without seeing it) sound like gel-coat splits and they are usually caused by covering the boat with plastic or sitting out in direct sun and I would venture to say that the cracks are only on the tops and not the sides. With that said you will have to sand the gel-coat all the way down to the glass in the damaged area and rebuild with a two part epoxy primer. It can be done but takes alot of labor and remember to always keep the sander flat so as not to put groves in the hull.

pebo
01-13-2005, 09:14 PM
If the cracks are still there and they are not stress cracks you could have alot of work in front of you. The cracks ( without seeing it) sound like gel-coat splits and they are usually caused by covering the boat with plastic or sitting out in direct sun and I would venture to say that the cracks are only on the tops and not the sides. With that said you will have to sand the gel-coat all the way down to the glass in the damaged area and rebuild with a two part epoxy primer. It can be done but takes alot of labor and remember to always keep the sander flat so as not to put groves in the hull.
Damn and I thought this was going to be easy!!

wsuwrhr
01-13-2005, 09:49 PM
Damn and I thought this was going to be easy!!
If it were easy, everyone would do it.
Brian

wsuwrhr
01-13-2005, 09:50 PM
So is my question not deserving of an answer?
Brian

BILLY.B
01-15-2005, 06:34 AM
Billy,
Do you think I can strip the pychadelic(sp?) orange off the cap on the Hondo just like you are doing to the funny car body?
maybe you already told me that.
Brian Oh your serious!!!!. I told you what to do but you said you had "NO TIME". By striping the boat i'm afraid it would stay that way and would never get done.

wsuwrhr
01-15-2005, 09:10 AM
Oh your serious!!!!. I told you what to do but you said you had "NO TIME". By striping the boat i'm afraid it would stay that way and would never get done.
OK then.
Brian

Kindsvater Flat
01-17-2005, 10:57 PM
Billy,
Do you think I can strip the pychadelic(sp?) orange off the cap on the Hondo just like you are doing to the funny car body?
maybe you already told me that.
Brian
Now Brian I'm no painter but I think the easy way out would be to paint a big peace type symbol on the motorhome and laminate a pot leaf in the window. Now this is just my opinion but I do believe its the easiest way. What do you think Billy? :D

BILLY.B
01-18-2005, 06:38 AM
Now Brian I'm no painter but I think the easy way out would be to paint a big peace type symbol on the motorhome and laminate a pot leaf in the window. Now this is just my opinion but I do believe its the easiest way. What do you think Billy? :DThat and a Bob Marley sticker and you'd be the $hit.

wsuwrhr
01-18-2005, 07:02 AM
Ya uh huh.
Ain't happenin.
CA'MON.
Brian

ss19crew
01-27-2005, 02:35 PM
Billy,
I got fitz's yellow boat (The outboard 18' V Bottom) and I was wondering what is the best way to get rid of the fading on the under side of the boat where the cover wasn't protecting. My uncle (Fitz) said that I could wet sand it and buff it out, but I am not sure that I want to do that.

fkeys
01-28-2005, 09:49 PM
If the cracks are still there and they are not stress cracks you could have alot of work in front of you. The cracks ( without seeing it) sound like gel-coat splits and they are usually caused by covering the boat with plastic or sitting out in direct sun and I would venture to say that the cracks are only on the tops and not the sides. With that said you will have to sand the gel-coat all the way down to the glass in the damaged area and rebuild with a two part epoxy primer. It can be done but takes alot of labor and remember to always keep the sander flat so as not to put groves in the hull.
A bunch of work is an understatement!! Mine before:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/showphoto.php?photo=9526&size=big&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

fkeys
01-28-2005, 10:03 PM
Trying again...
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5776Boat_deck_2-med.jpg
After a 4" angle grinder and about 4 hours....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5776DSC00484-med.JPG
Over did it a little with the grinder and left a bunch of gouges around the contours. I'm thinking of using epoxy resin to laminate a new floor, bulkhead & transom and am debating on whether to use a thickened epoxy resin as a fairing compound on these gouges. I've read that alot of paints (needless to say gelcoat) do not adhere to epoxy. What paints, besides epoxy, will stick??

Community
01-29-2005, 09:40 AM
Billy,
Have you ever heard of using pledge on gel coat to give it some gloss? Any drawbacks to this?
Thanks.

Norseman
01-29-2005, 06:41 PM
Billy,
Have you ever heard of using pledge on gel coat to give it some gloss? Any drawbacks to this?
Thanks.
It will put a shine on a faded car that looks really nice for a short period of time.

GofastRacer
01-29-2005, 08:36 PM
Billy,
Have you ever heard of using pledge on gel coat to give it some gloss? Any drawbacks to this?
Thanks.
I been using Pledge for 20 years on gel coat and it works great and it's great for taking off water spots. The only thing about it is that it will build up just like on furniture so you need to remove it every so often!. What I do is use it at the river to keep it shiny and water spots off, when I get home I wash all off!.

Roostertail
01-30-2005, 10:51 AM
I am getting ready to repaint my boat and I wanted to get a couple of questions answered. The boat has the original Gelocoat, but the top has been re-cleared with an automotive type clear not gel.
What is the best primer to use?
Is it better to use a urethane clear?
What is the best type of filler to use for small chips in the gel-coat on the bottom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Terry

BILLY.B
01-31-2005, 01:59 AM
Trying again...
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5776Boat_deck_2-med.jpg
After a 4" angle grinder and about 4 hours....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5776DSC00484-med.JPG
Over did it a little with the grinder and left a bunch of gouges around the contours. I'm thinking of using epoxy resin to laminate a new floor, bulkhead & transom and am debating on whether to use a thickened epoxy resin as a fairing compound on these gouges. I've read that alot of paints (needless to say gelcoat) do not adhere to epoxy. What paints, besides epoxy, will stick??OH MY GOD!!!!. Why did you use an angle grinder on your boat??. "And people ask me why I do everything myself". Use a good quality bondo (Z grip by Evercoat is a good one) and fill the spots in question. You can then use a quality catalized primer (and it sounds like you'll need alot) to spray on the deck, block sand and you should be ready for paint. Now this may take a few times of primering and sanding but the time is worth the result.

BILLY.B
01-31-2005, 02:05 AM
I am getting ready to repaint my boat and I wanted to get a couple of questions answered. The boat has the original Gelocoat, but the top has been re-cleared with an automotive type clear not gel.
What is the best primer to use?
Is it better to use a urethane clear?
What is the best type of filler to use for small chips in the gel-coat on the bottom?
Thanks in advance for your help.
TerryIs the clear in bad shape?. Why do you feel you need to primer the whole boat?. As far as the bottom goes you could use a good quality bondo from an automotive paint store ( not Pep Boys etc, etc) and when your done you'd primer those spots and your ready to paint. No different then fixing chips on the top just make sure you prep the areas before applying bondo to the chips in question and also make sure you prep the bottom real well for good adhesion.

BILLY.B
01-31-2005, 02:12 AM
Billy,
I got fitz's yellow boat (The outboard 18' V Bottom) and I was wondering what is the best way to get rid of the fading on the under side of the boat where the cover wasn't protecting. My uncle (Fitz) said that I could wet sand it and buff it out, but I am not sure that I want to do that.That will work, and believe it or not your uncle is RIGHT!!!!. Use 1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper and work up to 2000 wet or dry. Polish out with a buffer and a cutting compound to get the sandpaper scratches out, polish with hand glaze and it should look new.

BILLY.B
01-31-2005, 02:14 AM
Billy,
Have you ever heard of using pledge on gel coat to give it some gloss? Any drawbacks to this?
Thanks.No real draw backs other then it doesn't last. I'd be more prone to use a spray wax or a quick detail spray for a quickie detailed look.

ss19crew
01-31-2005, 06:59 AM
That will work, and believe it or not your uncle is RIGHT!!!!. Use 1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper and work up to 2000 wet or dry. Polish out with a buffer and a cutting compound to get the sandpaper scratches out, polish with hand glaze and it should look new.
Thanks billy I knew that he was correct I just was wondering if there wereany other options but I guess that I will get to sanding and buffing as soon as the weather breaks :)

Floored
01-31-2005, 05:16 PM
how would SW ultra 7000 clear hold up on the boat over paint and gel? I've had good luck with it on bikes for several years, but never tried it on a boat. thanks

BILLY.B
01-31-2005, 08:21 PM
how would SW ultra 7000 clear hold up on the boat over paint and gel? I've had good luck with it on bikes for several years, but never tried it on a boat. thanksI use to use SW 7000 but have switched to PPG 2010. The 7000 worked great and was easy to work with but the store I buy from doesn't handle it anymore. Good luck.

ssmike
02-03-2005, 12:35 PM
Sup Earl......how about painting my scoop...? It'll be there soon.

wsuwrhr
02-03-2005, 09:33 PM
Sup Earl......how about painting my scoop...? It'll be there soon.
So you do speaka da english.
I lost my spanish decoder ring after a bottle of tequila, luckily I didn't have the last shot.....someone else had to eat the worm.
Either way, no ring, no lingua, you dig?
Brian
You gota phone right?
I got a phone pal.
Try it out. haha.

StealBlueZ
02-05-2005, 08:38 PM
was wunderin if anyone had contact info for (Dick?) Vale Paint....

pebo
02-06-2005, 09:32 PM
Billy? More questions for you. For my 71 Hondo that we are repainting with the checks on the deck, you recomended to sand sand sand then use a two part primer sealer. I have done that and it didn't build as much as i would have liked. So what you think sand again and prime some more? You can still see some of the checks a little. can i use laquer primer over the sealer? The checks are from where it had some stripes on the center of the deck.

BILLY.B
02-07-2005, 06:15 AM
was wunderin if anyone had contact info for (Dick?) Vale Paint.... Dick's shop is in Stanton. His ph# is 714-952-9005

StealBlueZ
02-08-2005, 10:00 AM
thanks, Billy. Been readin some of your posts'. Thanks for all of your input and willingness to share it! You da man!
randy

Schiada76
02-08-2005, 11:34 AM
How do you get that multi color splatter in the engine compartment over the base coat. Can I just dial an HVLP to a stream and go to town?

BrendellaJet
02-08-2005, 07:09 PM
the spatter is webbing solution.

Jet Novice
02-09-2005, 06:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Billy,
I'm painting the bottom of my Hondo. Already sanded and repaired everything that I'm going to. Will spray with epoxy primer tonight and begin blocking process. I'm going to be using PPG paint, color will be white. What paint should I use? Base clear or single stage?
I was going to speed coat some of the bottom and I remember seeing somewhere that you knew of something to mix with the paint that worked like speed coat but did a better job. What is the stuff and is it compatible with PPG paints?
Thanks a lot!
Mark

BILLY.B
02-11-2005, 05:42 AM
Billy? More questions for you. For my 71 Hondo that we are repainting with the checks on the deck, you recomended to sand sand sand then use a two part primer sealer. I have done that and it didn't build as much as i would have liked. So what you think sand again and prime some more? You can still see some of the checks a little. can i use laquer primer over the sealer? The checks are from where it had some stripes on the center of the deck.Sorry Pebo I did answer your question but it's not here. If your still wondering you need to use a polyester primer not sealer, and you surely don't want to use a lacquer primer as it will shrink back later and then your screwed. Are you sure the cracks aren't stress cracks?. Being in the center of the deck that could mean there's a support under the deck thats causing the problem. If not stress cracks your gonna have to block out the cracks and build the area back up to get it flat again. Make sure you BLOCK out the area's and don't use a DA as this will leave a low area right where the cracks use to be when your all done. If you have a picture of the area in ??? put it up so I can help you out better.

BILLY.B
02-11-2005, 05:48 AM
How do you get that multi color splatter in the engine compartment over the base coat. Can I just dial an HVLP to a stream and go to town?Brad they make a special tip for your gun that will do it, or you can dip a stir stick into the paint and kinda give your wrist a quick flick and walla. Works out bitchen and you can control how much splatter you want by how much paint you put on the stir stick. Do the colors of the boat and it will look neat, just don't get carried away with it or it looks like your trying to cover something up.

Schiada76
02-11-2005, 07:39 AM
Now there's something I can handle. Flicking my wrist! Must it be done limply?
Billy, That fulthane came out great, everything polished out nice thanks for the advice!
http://www.v-driveboat.com/images/gallery/photos/14_boat-pnt-001.jpg

BiggusJimbus
02-22-2005, 05:07 PM
Hi Billy,
Love your work. Thanks for answering questions here.
I'm looking to get back into doing some painting (boats, motorcycles, car parts, etc).
I need to update my equipment, and would like some advice. Basically, looking for a new fairly general purpose gun that won't be an obstacle to getting decent results. Don't need the most expensive SATA gun (or do I?).
Do you have any recommendations here?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Jimbus.

BILLY.B
02-22-2005, 05:22 PM
Hi Billy,
Love your work. Thanks for answering questions here.
I'm looking to get back into doing some painting (boats, motorcycles, car parts, etc).
I need to update my equipment, and would like some advice. Basically, looking for a new fairly general purpose gun that won't be an obstacle to getting decent results. Don't need the most expensive SATA gun (or do I?).
Do you have any recommendations here?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Jimbus. Jimbus I have a couple of SATA's but I also bought a cheaper gun from my local supplier that worked real well for all around use for about a 1/5 of what the SATA cost, and when you feel it's done you can replace it again and again and again. You might ck with your local supplier for any deals they may have running. Thanks for the props on the work, only a painter can really appreciate the time that goes into every job.

Clown Midgets
02-23-2005, 05:28 AM
Billy
Our painter for our Midget charges us about 8g's per paint job, and we usually only do a solid color. Does that price sounf right? Any help would be appreciated
Samoht

BILLY.B
02-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Billy
Our painter for our Midget charges us about 8g's per paint job, and we usually only do a solid color. Does that price sounf right? Any help would be appreciated
SamohtDepends on whats being done or the condition of the body parts when you give them to him. If there new every year and he's getting that kinda money.......NOT A BAD GIG!!!!!. If you charge the price and someone pays it ......Must be worth it, just look at the pro sports salary's today.

Sangster
02-23-2005, 01:19 PM
Depends on whats being done or the condition of the body parts when you give them to him. If there new every year and he's getting that kinda money.......NOT A BAD GIG!!!!!. If you charge the price and someone pays it ......Must be worth it, just look at the pro sports salary's today.
Like Jeff Gordon & Smoke Stewart.........

OliverM5
03-02-2005, 09:58 PM
I'm sending my boat to be painted by a friend who does auto painting - I need to know a few things so he does a good job:
1) The boat has a gelcoat on it now - is the prep to paint over this the same as the standard prep to paint a car? If not, how do you prep?
2) What kind of primer to use?
3) What kind of paint? I heard Dupont Imron was good. Should he add a flex agent?
4) What kind of clearcoat is best?
Hopefully, this paint will last without peeling off, etc....thanks!

BILLY.B
03-03-2005, 06:33 AM
I'm sending my boat to be painted by a friend who does auto painting - I need to know a few things so he does a good job:
1) The boat has a gelcoat on it now - is the prep to paint over this the same as the standard prep to paint a car? If not, how do you prep?
2) What kind of primer to use?
3) What kind of paint? I heard Dupont Imron was good. Should he add a flex agent?
4) What kind of clearcoat is best?
Hopefully, this paint will last without peeling off, etc....thanks!
1. Standard prep.
2. A quality primer which = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
3. Imron went away with the EPA. They ( Dupont / PPG etc etc) make quality urethane paints that are just as durable and not quite as expensive.
4. If your painting it white or whatever color you might want to do whatever graphics before you clear coat as that would give you a nicer job.

Moose
03-03-2005, 06:57 PM
Billy, I have a couple questions for ya. First let me give you a run down on the primers and paint I'm using.
PPG DP50LF : laid down as a sealer over bare metal
Transtar 2K acrylic uretane primer #6561: laid down as a surfacer
PPG DBU 906257 H Bermuda Blue:
Transtar 3.5 Voc Euro Classic Clearcoat #7021:
Transtar 1.4 HVLP Gravity Feed Gun #6614.
I have the car Blocked and wet sanded, ready to paint, now the questions?.
1.Should I spray the door jams and hard to get to areas First then come back and lay the paint down on the rest of the car.
2. Can I paint the doors and hood separately without a color differance.
3. Does the paint be laid down at a fast rate of speed and look kind of dry, or put on wet looking. same question for the Clear.
4. If I Fvok up and get a run in the paint what is the best way to fix it.
Thanks
Moose
p.s. This is for a 71 Nova.

chasinTail
03-03-2005, 07:21 PM
i dont know if you have seen my posting on Gelcoat but im about to try it out for myself.. i have experience in paint and body so im not all that scared but i would like to get any input or advice before i start it since it is a new media for me. check out my post and let me know what you think about what im about to do.. any help would be great and im sure a lot of people on the board would like to hear about how to gel coat. also i know that a Gelcoat has to be between 15 and 20 mils.. or atleast the product that im spraying is that way.. if its too thin they say it wont cure, too thick - too fast lots of wrinkles and cracking, bubbling.. how do you do a multicolor gelcoat and still mind the whole too thick too thin deal? any help?
George

BILLY.B
03-04-2005, 06:08 AM
Billy, I have a couple questions for ya. First let me give you a run down on the primers and paint I'm using.
PPG DP50LF : laid down as a sealer over bare metal
Transtar 2K acrylic uretane primer #6561: laid down as a surfacer
PPG DBU 906257 H Bermuda Blue:
Transtar 3.5 Voc Euro Classic Clearcoat #7021:
Transtar 1.4 HVLP Gravity Feed Gun #6614.
I have the car Blocked and wet sanded, ready to paint, now the questions?.
1.Should I spray the door jams and hard to get to areas First then come back and lay the paint down on the rest of the car.
2. Can I paint the doors and hood separately without a color differance.
3. Does the paint be laid down at a fast rate of speed and look kind of dry, or put on wet looking. same question for the Clear.
4. If I Fvok up and get a run in the paint what is the best way to fix it.
Thanks
Moose
p.s. This is for a 71 Nova. Did you do all the body work (if any) be fore you put the sealer down?. All of the materials sound ok but I don't know if the Bermuda color is a metallic or a solid color. If it's a solid color you could paint the hood seperate, if it's a metallic you'd just have to keep track of the number of coats you put on the rest of the car and the spray pattern you used so you get a match. My suggestion is to paint the hood on the car if you have any doubts about getting a good match as this is the focal point that most people seem to look at and JUDGE. Now this may seem backwards to some of you but I always did my door jams after I was all done with the outside ( including color sand & rub). Why would I do that you ask????. I wanted the door jams to look as nice as the outside and the jams are such a pain to mask up especially the front of the door and no matter how hard you try there'd be overspray somewhere and that would piss me off so I did them last. Now if you want to pull the doors off to paint the body and the jam at the same time you could do that but then you have to be real carefull when you put them back on so as not to scratch them.
You want to put the paint on wet but not to wet as to run or sag the metallic if the color has any. Now this is where experience comes in so you may have to do a test on something to get some practice. If the color comes out dry and it's metallic you CANNOT colorsand it before you clear it as it will show all the sand scratches when you clear it. If it comes out dry colorsand it with 600 grit wet /or dry and recoat with wetter coats to achieve your color again and then clear. With the clear, put on a tack coat and wait about 10mins then put on another wetter coat and wait again. To test if it's dry enough to re-coat put your finger on a piece of tape that you used to mask the car and if it feels tacky and not wet your ok. You want to make sure you've let the clear dry enough to let out the solvents before you re-coat ( usually 10 to 15mins) or the car will look like it has the measles when your all done. Good luck....

BILLY.B
03-04-2005, 06:10 AM
i dont know if you have seen my posting on Gelcoat but im about to try it out for myself.. i have experience in paint and body so im not all that scared but i would like to get any input or advice before i start it since it is a new media for me. check out my post and let me know what you think about what im about to do.. any help would be great and im sure a lot of people on the board would like to hear about how to gel coat. also i know that a Gelcoat has to be between 15 and 20 mils.. or atleast the product that im spraying is that way.. if its too thin they say it wont cure, too thick - too fast lots of wrinkles and cracking, bubbling.. how do you do a multicolor gelcoat and still mind the whole too thick too thin deal? any help?
GeorgeWe don't do gel-coat. But you could pm Toddnjuzz on these boards and i'm sure he could help you out.

wsuwrhr
03-04-2005, 07:01 AM
Now this may seem backwards to some of you but I always did my door jams after I was all done with the outside ( including color sand & rub). Why would I do that you ask????. I wanted the door jams to look as nice as the outside and the jams are such a pain to mask up especially the front of the door and no matter how hard you try there'd be overspray somewhere and that would piss me off so I did them last.
Damn good idea
Brian

Moose
03-05-2005, 09:04 AM
Thanks Billy, The paint is dark blue with green pearl and changes colors when you look at it from different angles(will this make it easyer to match the paint all around the car?). The doors and hood are off the car right now. I will take your advice and put the hood back on before I spray it, but the door jams seam really hard to get to with the doors on the car so I think I will paint those seperate. If I do run into a problem ie: a run in the paint or dry areas, how long after the paint is sprayed can you sand it to fix it. Once the areas are sanded and sprayed, what about the rest of the car, can I spary the clear on then or will the paint be too dry by then thus needing the rest of the car to be sanded and repainted with another coat of paint before I can spray the clear?. Does this make since?. Oh ya, the sealer was put down before I did the body work ( just small door dings).
Thanks again Billy
Moose

BILLY.B
03-06-2005, 09:04 PM
Thanks Billy, The paint is dark blue with green pearl and changes colors when you look at it from different angles(will this make it easyer to match the paint all around the car?). The doors and hood are off the car right now. I will take your advice and put the hood back on before I spray it, but the door jams seam really hard to get to with the doors on the car so I think I will paint those seperate. If I do run into a problem ie: a run in the paint or dry areas, how long after the paint is sprayed can you sand it to fix it. Once the areas are sanded and sprayed, what about the rest of the car, can I spary the clear on then or will the paint be too dry by then thus needing the rest of the car to be sanded and repainted with another coat of paint before I can spray the clear?. Does this make since?. Oh ya, the sealer was put down before I did the body work ( just small door dings).
Thanks again Billy
MooseMoose, sorry about not talking to you today but for a SUNDAY it was extremly busy. Now to answer your questions. Why don't you paint the jams without the doors on??????. Mask the body off so you don't get overspray all over the place, spray the jams and clear them. When dry mask the jams up real good and put the doors back on. Use paper wherever possible so you pull it all off when done with the outside. I would recommend you paint the car with the doors on seeing as the color has pearl in it and would be very hard to panel match if you painted them seperatly.Nothing worse then seeing a car with a BIG BULLS EYE in the center of it when the doors don't match!!!!. Now as far as the time goes when you can come back and fix an area that you might of screwed up, that depends on if it's basecoat or a catalyzed color. You'd have to read the label to see a cure time. Most base coats can be fixed with in the hour if your carefull. Now you also have a window of time that the car has to be cleared by and that would be within about 12 hrs of applying the base color. If it's longer then that they make a mid coat adhesion promoter that you can spray on that softens the paint so the clear will attach itself to it so it lessen's the chance of the clear peeling off later.

Moose
03-07-2005, 05:41 AM
Billy Check your PM's Again.
Thanks
Moose

86condor
03-12-2005, 02:15 PM
i'm trying to bring back the original paint to my boat. i've tried waxes and had no luck. the boat was sitting in a pasture for 2-3 years, just wondering if there is something else i could try.

BILLY.B
03-14-2005, 07:00 AM
i'm trying to bring back the original paint to my boat. i've tried waxes and had no luck. the boat was sitting in a pasture for 2-3 years, just wondering if there is something else i could try. Do you know if there is any clear on the paint or is it gel coat?????. If it's gel you could try colorsanding with 1500 wet/or dry and then go over it with 2000 wet/or dry and rub out with a buffer. Super duty 3M compound with a cutting pad and when all the sand scratches are gone you move up to a polishing pad with a 3M polishing compound to get the buffer swirls out and then wax with a good carnuba wax. I've been using a product by Meguirars called Tech 1 (wax) and the stuff is really easy to work with and gives awesome results. If it's a paint job make sure it has a clear coat on it. You could try rubbing it out with a product made by 3m that is a rubbing compound made for urethane paints and clears and is not as abrasive as the super duty. I can't remember the name of the product but any auto body supply shop will have it. Then go over the steps that I gave you above and you should be ok. Now if the paint isn't cleared you have to be really carefull not to burn the paint ( go thru it) and I wouldn't recommened color sanding it as you might go thru the paint also. Just rub it out with the buffer and go slow. Better to be safe then sorry. Good luck

psdperformance
03-16-2005, 03:27 PM
Hi,
I have an original 76 waikiki daycruiser that has the original gelcoat on top but has been regelcoated on the bottom. The top of the boat look ok but in places it appears to not have any gelcoat left as it is down to the flake paint and wood looking material around the top of the boat. Is there any way to save the paint/wood look or do i need to completely redo the boat. If i need to redo the boat and i decide to have it painted how long will the paint last and does it peel off over time? i keep the boat covered and under a enclosed
garage type deal. Who do you recommend for paint or to regel the boat.
Thanks Chris

BILLY.B
03-16-2005, 06:17 PM
Hi,
I have an original 76 waikiki daycruiser that has the original gelcoat on top but has been regelcoated on the bottom. The top of the boat look ok but in places it appears to not have any gelcoat left as it is down to the flake paint and wood looking material around the top of the boat. Is there any way to save the paint/wood look or do i need to completely redo the boat. If i need to redo the boat and i decide to have it painted how long will the paint last and does it peel off over time? i keep the boat covered and under a enclosed
garage type deal. Who do you recommend for paint or to regel the boat.
Thanks Chris Hey Chris i'm trying to picture what your boat looks like. Does the deck have both flake and wood around the step area of the cockpit?. If you can feel the flake the clear gelcoat is gone and the area would have to be repainted or regelcoated. As far as the wood goes it's a decal that was layed in the mold when the boat was built. If it looks hazy it's because the clear gelcoat is getting cloudy due to age. Sometimes you can reclear that area it and it comes back looking new. Regelcoating when done right can get costly, but then so can a nice paint job so it kinda becomes a personal preference. Paint will not peel off when preped right and will last as long as you like, as long as you take care of it.

psdperformance
03-17-2005, 12:31 PM
My boat is a closed bow 21 foot similar to a tahiti etc. The wood is on the front of the boat above the bow where it slopes down to meet the bow. It then continues down smaller and wraps around the boat staying on the upper part of the boat. It is the typical wood look of that time. I would like to
repaint the boat and get rid of the wood look and the metal flake strip that is around the boat .who could you recommend for a job like this all i want to do is make the boat blue and white no crazy paint scheme who do you guys recommend so i can call and setup an appointment to look at the boat to get a quote? I do not want to do another paint job in a couple of years so it need to be durable as as you know money does not grow on trees yet!
Thanks Chris

Norseman
03-17-2005, 04:11 PM
My boat is a closed bow 21 foot similar to a tahiti etc. The wood is on the front of the boat above the bow where it slopes down to meet the bow. It then continues down smaller and wraps around the boat staying on the upper part of the boat. It is the typical wood look of that time. I would like to
repaint the boat and get rid of the wood look and the metal flake strip that is around the boat .who could you recommend for a job like this all i want to do is make the boat blue and white no crazy paint scheme who do you guys recommend so i can call and setup an appointment to look at the boat to get a quote? I do not want to do another paint job in a couple of years so it need to be durable as as you know money does not grow on trees yet!
Thanks Chris
Chris;
I'd sell the boat to someone that likes wood, and buy another fiberglass boat that is painted the way you want or paint it. There are lots of guys that would love to have an old wood deck V drive, myself included!!
It's worth way more money the way it is than painted over!!!!
Just my 2 cents!
Bob

BILLY.B
03-19-2005, 07:04 AM
My boat is a closed bow 21 foot similar to a tahiti etc. The wood is on the front of the boat above the bow where it slopes down to meet the bow. It then continues down smaller and wraps around the boat staying on the upper part of the boat. It is the typical wood look of that time. I would like to
repaint the boat and get rid of the wood look and the metal flake strip that is around the boat .who could you recommend for a job like this all i want to do is make the boat blue and white no crazy paint scheme who do you guys recommend so i can call and setup an appointment to look at the boat to get a quote? I do not want to do another paint job in a couple of years so it need to be durable as as you know money does not grow on trees yet!
Thanks ChrisChris you can give me a call on Monday if you'd like (909-982-8555). I'll give you a couple of options.

ROZ
03-30-2005, 08:07 PM
Billy B, I've followed your posts over the years and have decided you're an asset to the boards. The amount of time you've spent here answering questions is friggen awesome!
***boat, send the man a tshirt and free subscription :D Subscription to what, I don't know...They use to have a magazine ;) :D
ANyways, Thanks!

Punisher
04-10-2005, 10:46 PM
Hey BillyB,
I've read this whole topic and I believe you are a valuable asset to all "Do it yourselfers."Anyways,I have a 1976 21'Cheetah speed boat..Im ready to get it painted but I was wondering what steps i should take in order to get it prepped for paint?The gel coat on the top is cracking aka spider webbing...I was wondering what type of paint and primer you would recommend?Also is there a number i can reach you at?Also,in one of the above posts,you said standard prep...I know this may be a stupid question,but what is standard prep for a boat??If worse comes to worse and i cant afford to paint my boat,it looks as if ill just leave it primered this summer =(...Hope to hear from you soon...
and thank you for your time
Jon

BILLY.B
04-12-2005, 05:24 AM
Hey BillyB,
I've read this whole topic and I believe you are a valuable asset to all "Do it yourselfers."Anyways,I have a 1976 21'Cheetah speed boat..Im ready to get it painted but I was wondering what steps i should take in order to get it prepped for paint?The gel coat on the top is cracking aka spider webbing...I was wondering what type of paint and primer you would recommend?Also is there a number i can reach you at?Also,in one of the above posts,you said standard prep...I know this may be a stupid question,but what is standard prep for a boat??If worse comes to worse and i cant afford to paint my boat,it looks as if ill just leave it primered this summer =(...Hope to hear from you soon...
and thank you for your time
Jon Ck out post #86 on this thread and it says it all. If the cracks are in the gel you have to get rid of them completely or they will come back.

Punisher
04-12-2005, 09:12 AM
Thanks BillyB,
After im done sanding it down,do you have any reputable shops you can lead me to get it painted?I just want one solid color(black,copper,lime green or a white).Price is a big thing so if worse comes to worse,ill just have a primered boat this summer

Punisher
04-22-2005, 09:22 AM
Hey BillyB,
Is it possible to buy the primer and paint from you in order to paint the boat myself?

cole13
05-02-2005, 01:52 PM
Billy B, first let me say that you are real asset to the members on the board. If I may I would like to ask a question about detailing gel coat. I have been very digilent in waxing my boat, not letting people climb on the bow etc... However I am starting to get some discoloration in the gel coat. I was reading another post that said you can wet sand (paint) it did not say anything regarding gel coat. Can you sand gel coat? If so what would the process be. Are there any products available to the consumer that would allow me to really bring the gel back to life.
Thanks in advance!!

BILLY.B
05-03-2005, 06:29 AM
Billy B, first let me say that you are real asset to the members on the board. If I may I would like to ask a question about detailing gel coat. I have been very digilent in waxing my boat, not letting people climb on the bow etc... However I am starting to get some discoloration in the gel coat. I was reading another post that said you can wet sand (paint) it did not say anything regarding gel coat. Can you sand gel coat? If so what would the process be. Are there any products available to the consumer that would allow me to really bring the gel back to life.
Thanks in advance!!Try using 3M 1500 grit wet/dry with plenty of water and finish with 2000 wet/dry to leave even a smoother finish to rub out. Then use 3M super duty rubbing compound with a buffer and a cutting pad. When you have all the scratches removed you change pads to a polishing pad and use a product called Finesse It. It comes in a black bottle and you use that until the shine comes back to life and the swirls are removed caused by the compound. followed up by a nice coat of your favorite wax. Another note.....They make the pads in foam or wool. i prefer foam as it leaves less of a mess. Both can be bought at you local autobody parts store. Good luck

cole13
05-03-2005, 07:44 AM
Try using 3M 1500 grit wet/dry with plenty of water and finish with 2000 wet/dry to leave even a smoother finish to rub out. Then use 3M super duty rubbing compound with a buffer and a cutting pad. When you have all the scratches removed you change pads to a polishing pad and use a product called Finesse It. It comes in a black bottle and you use that until the shine comes back to life and the swirls are removed caused by the compound. followed up by a nice coat of your favorite wax. Another note.....They make the pads in foam or wool. i prefer foam as it leaves less of a mess. Both can be bought at you local autobody parts store. Good luck
Thank you very much for your help. I will try it! But just to make sure I do not ruin the gel coat, how much water is PLENTY. I have never done anything so intrusive to the gel coat, and I would hate to mess it up. I will start in a small section underneath the boat. Thanks again.

BILLY.B
05-04-2005, 05:37 AM
Thank you very much for your help. I will try it! But just to make sure I do not ruin the gel coat, how much water is PLENTY. I have never done anything so intrusive to the gel coat, and I would hate to mess it up. I will start in a small section underneath the boat. Thanks again. You don't have to have ton's of water, the reason for the water is so the sandpaper will slide easily and not clog. Make sure the surface is clean also so as not to put any deep scratches in it. I'm assuming you have a Cole and if thats true there should be more then enough gel coat to colorsand. You just want to go far enough to get the correct color back and then rub out. If you start to see a hint of black showing through you've gone to far. But with 1500 grit you'd look like a young incrediable Hulk by the time that happened. You'll do fine and if you need any help just ask.

BOBALOO
05-14-2005, 11:45 AM
Hey Billy, Thanks for giving everyone on here your valuable time and input.
I have a couple of questions for you.
I would like to re gel the keel of my boat, it is scratched up frrom beaching it all the time. Do you do that or can you recommend someone, preferrably in so cal to do it?
And second I dont really want to but a new boat just to have a different gelcoat so I am thinking about changing the color of the magenta, pink looking stripes to more of a red or burgandy. Would I be better off having someone paint or airbrush the color different then clear over it or re do it in gel (probably more costly but durable)?
3rd option but less likely is to cover up the existing graphics with something newer looking in gel or paint.
Here is my boat, it is a 96 Eliminator 25' Eagle
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/502/12925_truck.jpg
Sorry for the big pic but it is easier to see the detail.

BILLY.B
05-16-2005, 06:25 AM
Hey Billy, Thanks for giving everyone on here your valuable time and input.
I have a couple of questions for you.
I would like to re gel the keel of my boat, it is scratched up frrom beaching it all the time. Do you do that or can you recommend someone, preferrably in so cal to do it?
And second I dont really want to but a new boat just to have a different gelcoat so I am thinking about changing the color of the magenta, pink looking stripes to more of a red or burgandy. Would I be better off having someone paint or airbrush the color different then clear over it or re do it in gel (probably more costly but durable)?
3rd option but less likely is to cover up the existing graphics with something newer looking in gel or paint.
Here is my boat, it is a 96 Eliminator 25' Eagle
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/502/12925_truck.jpg
Sorry for the big pic but it is easier to see the detail. 1.There are a couple of guys that I use. TODDNJUZZ on the boards is one and i'm sorry but I don't have his # on me at the moment but you can look him up on the registry. The 2nd guy is Pats Fiberglass (Don owns the shop)...909-946-3089. Both do a real nice job.
2nd. If you wanted to get rid of the magenta color i'd paint it. If you re-gel it the edge will be huge compared to the rest of the boat. But if you paint it it can be trimed down to almost nothing.

macboat22
05-22-2005, 03:01 PM
Do you do custom lettering? If not what kind of paint should I use to do the CF numbers?

dbddbd
05-23-2005, 05:02 AM
good advice....

BILLY.B
05-23-2005, 05:24 AM
Do you do custom lettering? If not what kind of paint should I use to do the CF numbers?Yes we do. If you were to attempt to do this yourself you'd use "One Shot" lettering enamel.

macboat22
05-28-2005, 04:50 PM
Billy, Thanks for hooking me up with Bob. He did a great job.

ELVIS
05-30-2005, 09:24 PM
Billy, i've got a light 3'' scratch in my gel coat, do you recomend i try and wet sand it out or should i leave that to a pro. if so what grit & type of paper, do i sand w/ scratch or against scratch. thanks.

BILLY.B
05-31-2005, 05:35 AM
Billy, i've got a light 3'' scratch in my gel coat, do you recomend i try and wet sand it out or should i leave that to a pro. if so what grit & type of paper, do i sand w/ scratch or against scratch. thanks. Depends on how deep the scratch is. If you feel it's not bad and your not seeing any black under the scratch you can use 800 grit and work your way up to 2000 grit wet or dry then polish out with a buffer.

dean51267
05-31-2005, 05:36 PM
I have a 1993 Profile, with the expected stress cracks in the paint in the cockpit, how do I hide/rework these spots? Thanks

BILLY.B
06-01-2005, 05:05 AM
I have a 1993 Profile, with the expected stress cracks in the paint in the cockpit, how do I hide/rework these spots? ThanksYou'll have to grind the stress cracks away and fill them with glass. Grind smooth and fill any inperfections with filler. Once you've done that primer the area, sand and blend the paint. If these cracks are in the normal areas chances are they will return, but doing the job right will definitely hold them off for sometime.

meaniam
06-01-2005, 11:00 AM
i had just repainted the boat with dupont paint to match house of colors brandywine red looked awsome for one night now that sun has came out the temp gets hotter the paint is blistering or bubbling all overi sanded boat well then told the painter to put polyester sandable primer that u sav more paint recommended did this to cover gel coat that had laquar check look then they sprayed it at least 3 days ago is there anyway to save this or am i ruined do i need to start all over what cuases this i feel like taking a 12 guage shot gun placing the boat on silverwood and doing custom holes for quicker sinking

NoCal NoBoat
06-02-2005, 04:45 PM
Billy B -
Thanks for taking the questions ! I guess I'll need to change my screen name
to NoCal HalfBoat. Just went partners with a family member on a Sanger Super Jet. Judging from the HIN #, it's a late 1973 ? Mechanically sound, but the hull needs some TLC and inside storage.
The hull looks like the original yellow. Original, but faded. Three color graphics all around, (blue, red, orange) appear to be airbrushed. Painter signed his work "Color by Ron" at the bow.
The previous owner(s) got really sloppy at the gas dock, and the paint ? is badly cracked around the fillers on both sides.
Any ideas for us ? Can you tell us anything about "Ron" ? I would hate to
try to solve the problems myself, and find out later that Ron was somebody
whose work should have been preserved, not sanded away.
Thanks for taking the newbie questions.
Tom

BILLY.B
06-04-2005, 05:39 AM
i had just repainted the boat with dupont paint to match house of colors brandywine red looked awsome for one night now that sun has came out the temp gets hotter the paint is blistering or bubbling all overi sanded boat well then told the painter to put polyester sandable primer that u sav more paint recommended did this to cover gel coat that had laquar check look then they sprayed it at least 3 days ago is there anyway to save this or am i ruined do i need to start all over what cuases this i feel like taking a 12 guage shot gun placing the boat on silverwood and doing custom holes for quicker sinking OK lets start from the begining. From this post I take it that you sanded the boat yourself and then gave it to a shop to finish it. The so called "Lacquer check" is gel coat splits probably from covering the boat with plastic while it sat outside or from no cover at all and sitting outside. Now those cracks need to be completely removed or they will eventually come back, even with the polyester primer. Most customers don't want to spend the $$$$$$$ to get rid of the cracks as it is a time eating SOB to do it but thats the only way to get rid of them. Assuming the boat was preped right and the primer sat for a day or so before sanding it down, and that if they wet sanded it they also let it sit for a day or so to let the moisture get out of the primer as primer is very porous and will retain mositure if painted right away. Then it gets trapped in by the paint and can't get out causing moisture blisters. This could also be solvent blisters but I doubt it as they look like little tiny blisters that have been poked with a needle. What happens when you get the boat out of the sun, say over night, do the blisters go away?. If so i'd almost guarantee it's trapped moisture, which could also be caused by the airlines at the shop but i'm sure the painter would of noticed that when doing the job. Another question do you think that this is only in the clear??. If so you might, and I said might, be able to save it. Let me know. And by chance are you the guy that called the shop the other day?. I've been out of the shop doing a big job and haven't bee around to return phone messages. If so go ahead and let me know here and i'll do my best to help you out. I'd hate to think there's another guy with the same problem.

BILLY.B
06-04-2005, 05:45 AM
Billy B -
Thanks for taking the questions ! I guess I'll need to change my screen name
to NoCal HalfBoat. Just went partners with a family member on a Sanger Super Jet. Judging from the HIN #, it's a late 1973 ? Mechanically sound, but the hull needs some TLC and inside storage.
The hull looks like the original yellow. Original, but faded. Three color graphics all around, (blue, red, orange) appear to be airbrushed. Painter signed his work "Color by Ron" at the bow.
The previous owner(s) got really sloppy at the gas dock, and the paint ? is badly cracked around the fillers on both sides.
Any ideas for us ? Can you tell us anything about "Ron" ? I would hate to
try to solve the problems myself, and find out later that Ron was somebody
whose work should have been preserved, not sanded away.
Thanks for taking the newbie questions.
Tom Tom it would depend on where the boat came from originally. The only painter I know by the name of Ron is 'Ron's Colorworks" in Upland Ca. He's right around the corner from me and he used to paint from time to time but mostly a pinstriper. If you could find out where the original owner was from that might help.

909
06-04-2005, 04:39 PM
Question for the experts here,
I have a '74 sleekcraft rebel i'm starting as a resto project. The hull looks like it's in good shape. I have some dash wood that needs replacing but the bottom seems sound. The boat had metalflake gel on it with the deck being glassed over wood. The wood is now blotchy so i'm thinking about painting the whole thing. My questions are this, the metalflake looks like it had an automotive clear over it that has been peeling for some time. How do I remove the remaining clear and prep the gel for primer? Any recommendations for primer/paint would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking of shooting this straight white with a HOK inset for the deck and along the top of the sides.
Thanks for any info.

BILLY.B
06-05-2005, 06:52 AM
Question for the experts here,
I have a '74 sleekcraft rebel i'm starting as a resto project. The hull looks like it's in good shape. I have some dash wood that needs replacing but the bottom seems sound. The boat had metalflake gel on it with the deck being glassed over wood. The wood is now blotchy so i'm thinking about painting the whole thing. My questions are this, the metalflake looks like it had an automotive clear over it that has been peeling for some time. How do I remove the remaining clear and prep the gel for primer? Any recommendations for primer/paint would be greatly appreciated. I am thinking of shooting this straight white with a HOK inset for the deck and along the top of the sides.
Thanks for any info.I'm very familiar with the Sleekcraft Rebel as a very close friend of mine had one when we were in high school. Had many good times in that boat, including a make believe circle race at Canyon lake. Anyway the wood on the dash and deck aren't real wood which i'm sure your aware of. It is a vinyl decal that was inset then clear geled over, thats the clear gel going bad when it gets cloudy. As long as the metalflake doesn't have any "Gel splits" or cracks "I" would sand all the peeling clear off with 80 grit and a DA making sure to keep the DA flat so as not to make any waves in the hull and I would hand sand on the edges or any reverse curves such as where the deck meets the cap and then prime. I use a polyester primer and would apply about three heavy coats and then guide coat it with black. I'd then block sand the hull with 220 wet or dry then do 320 by hand and finish it off with 400 grit wet or dry making sure all inperfections were worked out. Make sure you let the hull dry out for at least a couple of days before you would a apply a sealer or you could be trapping mositure and then it's ready for the base coat of your choice. Always know that the cost of a nice paint job is in the prep especially on an older hull as this can be a very time consuming ordeal. Good luck.

meaniam
06-05-2005, 07:23 PM
thank you billy i love your work, and wish i was able to have had you done mine. but i had recieved bad phone number for you, from a plating shop, guys a jerk. it wouldnt be fair for me to state who he is cuase he does good work. and im an ahole sometimes. i had covered the boat and it had cooler temp 2 days in a row. for the most part the blister did go down i stuck a needle in one that started out the size of a dime then within 2 hours the size of a quarter. or more all the bubbles went into the candy paint job. im bumed out one thing after another with my boat. i asked other for advise they said small bubbles looked like moister blister. big bubbles look like solvent pop. going to rig boat so i can enjoy boat for july 4th.even if paint peels off. lucky i have a silver line on side of boat, to seperate top from bottom. only top bubbled. then take it back. i was the one who did call, the boat was rushed 9 days. (drop off to pick up)i did do alot of sanding but didnt get all the check out. and did leave outside 3 yrs no cover.
agian billy thank you and would be honered to meet you one day
mike

konajet
06-06-2005, 04:41 PM
I have a 73 sanger flat I am going to be painting this summer the paint that is on it now is not in that bad of shape but there are parts that are cracking and peeling off around corners and on the bottom it seems that it is pretty thick would it be easier to strip it all off ( how and what to use?) or stick to sanding the whole thing down? thanks

BILLY.B
06-06-2005, 08:54 PM
I have a 73 sanger flat I am going to be painting this summer the paint that is on it now is not in that bad of shape but there are parts that are cracking and peeling off around corners and on the bottom it seems that it is pretty thick would it be easier to strip it all off ( how and what to use?) or stick to sanding the whole thing down? thanks If it's an old lacquer paint job chances are you could put the boat in the summer sun and strip it with a razor blade. Getting the paint hot makes it easier to strip off. If thats not the option i'd start sanding. Make sure to keep the sander flat so not to make waves in the hull. On edges and corners use your hand and make sure you keep moving and don't sand in one area to long as that can cause waves also.

909
06-06-2005, 10:27 PM
Billy, you are 'da man. I just want to let you know tht I appreciate your time in answering all of the questions here and not being afraid of losing business to some home shooters. The sad fact is that i'm starting with a boat that I got complete for $200 and I figure that by doing all the work myself i'll have about 3-4G's into it total. Its not really a money issue but if I were to buy this boat done it'd probably be the same money, but this way I know what i've got and it's done the way I want it done. Without guys like you helping out, this would not be possible.
Thanks again,
Jerad
909 Industries Inc.

BILLY.B
06-08-2005, 05:53 AM
Billy, you are 'da man. I just want to let you know tht I appreciate your time in answering all of the questions here and not being afraid of losing business to some home shooters.
Thanks again,
Jerad
909 Industries Inc. No problem Jerad. And i'm not to worried about losing the business, I figure that once they try to do the job themself and see how much work is really involved they'll never attempt it again...LOL.

meaniam
06-08-2005, 03:08 PM
im sure your right

davidr34
06-08-2005, 03:27 PM
I am about to paint my 1980 challenger i need to strip the old gel coat and primer it for paint. How should i go abou this? What tools should i use and so on.... Any help would be nice. Thanks alot. David

Hondo78
06-12-2005, 08:00 PM
Billy, I am restoring a '67 Sanger "metal flake" gold, I plan on using a polyester filling primer for leveling the hull, and I plan on painting it with House of color Tangelo base with blue and yellow graphics.
Q. What is a good media blasting firm to use to strip fiberglass, and what medum to use to blast the hull with to remove the last paint job, for example walnut shells? (I live in Havasu).
Q. What is a good filler to use for the House of Color Products?
Q. I have seen some PPG colors that are similar do you recomend them over the House of Colors products?
Hondo78

BILLY.B
06-13-2005, 06:26 AM
I am about to paint my 1980 challenger i need to strip the old gel coat and primer it for paint. How should i go abou this? What tools should i use and so on.... Any help would be nice. Thanks alot. DavidThere's no reason to strip the gel-coat unless it's full ok gel check in which you schould really have a professional do the job as inexperience can cost you alot in labor before you would be happy with end result. If the gel is just faded out you can sand down and primer with a good polyester primer and block down when dry ( couple of days) and you would be ready for paint.

BILLY.B
06-13-2005, 06:43 AM
Billy, I am restoring a '67 Sanger "metal flake" gold, I plan on using a polyester filling primer for leveling the hull, and I plan on painting it with House of color Tangelo base with blue and yellow graphics.
Q. What is a good media blasting firm to use to strip fiberglass, and what medum to use to blast the hull with to remove the last paint job, for example walnut shells? (I live in Havasu).
Q. What is a good filler to use for the House of Color Products?
Q. I have seen some PPG colors that are similar do you recomend them over the House of Colors products?
Hondo78I haven't had much luck with the hole media blasting deal. Both times i've attemted to have this done by two different business i've been really dissapointed with the end result and that created alot more work for me. Now the walnut shells i've never tried so I can't help you there. If your concerned with the metal flake ( faded and rough feeling) you can sand it down with 120 grit and primer with a polyester primer. You might have to do the primer thing a couple of times to make sure you fill all the little divets that old metel flake will have. ( like primering over sand ) Make sure to let dry a couple of days before reprimering so as to let all the solvents dissolve. And if you wet sand the boat for the final sand make sure you let it dry out real good ( couple of days ) so that when you do paint the hull you don't trap any moisture under the base coat. PPG has developed a line of custom colors in which I have not tried. I usually stick with what works and if i'm painting a boat or car that I think is going to be used alot I like to go with an off the shelf color that I know will be consistent time and time again. House of Kolor has been real consistent so I would opp for that brand. Now with that said PPG has a real nice color line I just haven't used them yet. When I make my custom colors which is most of the time I do use PPG products as there toners seem to be alot clearer then the rest which in turn makes the colors alot brighter. Good luck.

ColeTR2
06-27-2005, 06:45 PM
Billy I would like to remove the thanks you lettering off the back of my new boat can it be done? Any tip or trick for the do it your-selfer?
http://flat-bottom.com/TR2/images/P6080167_JPG.jpg

BILLY.B
06-28-2005, 05:42 AM
Mike, if you mask off the area's you don't need to remove lettering and especially the anodizing ( Cav plates and hardware ) I would use EZ-OFF oven cleaner. Do alittle bit at a time and use a plastic bondo spreader to remove the lettering. You have to let the oven cleaner sit for a bit ( 2 to 3 min) and then remove. It may take a few times but it should do the job. You'll have to polish the area when done. Now if you wanted to remove the "Prime Time" I think it's on gel-coat and if it is you can color sand the name off and rub the area out. Good luck.

lurid
06-29-2005, 10:52 AM
Mike, if you mask off the area's you don't need to remove lettering and especially the anodizing ( Cav plates and hardware ) I would use EZ-OFF oven cleaner. Do alittle bit at a time and use a plastic bondo spreader to remove the lettering. You have to let the oven cleaner sit for a bit ( 2 to 3 min) and then remove. It may take a few times but it should do the job. You'll have to polish the area when done. Now if you wanted to remove the "Prime Time" I think it's on gel-coat and if it is you can color sand the name off and rub the area out. Good luck.
will this work on removing pinstripping on a 2000 Dark Blue Ford Excursion with tan pinstripe? I don't want to screw up the paint. it is the factory paint and pinstripe. will there still be a shadow pinstipe mark? and if so should I color sand then rub out or just buff/rub?
thanks

BILLY.B
06-30-2005, 06:04 AM
will this work on removing pinstripping on a 2000 Dark Blue Ford Excursion with tan pinstripe? I don't want to screw up the paint. it is the factory paint and pinstripe. will there still be a shadow pinstipe mark? and if so should I color sand then rub out or just buff/rub?
thanksNo it will not work on factory painted pinstriping. You'll have to color sand it off with extreme care. I've taken a block with 1500 grit wet or dry and blocked of the striping and then rubbed the area out. Now the secret is to not over do it when sanding. Just sand enough to get the color off and move on. The reason for the block is so you take it off evenly and for less chance of breaking through the factory clear.

Bt273
07-03-2005, 07:31 PM
Thanks to Billy & Bobby for giving me tips on how to get Oneshot paint lettering off, (easy off oven cleaner), it worked like a champ!!!! http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429back3.jpg http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429back1.jpg http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side5.jpg http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side_4.jpg

Bt273
07-03-2005, 07:35 PM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side_2.jpg http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side_3.jpg

Monkey Bung
07-04-2005, 09:30 AM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side_2.jpg http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429side_3.jpg
Looks Bitchen Jim. Now take a close up picture of the deck and see if anyone can match the colors for the numbers on the side.

Bt273
07-04-2005, 06:49 PM
It doesn't really show well here but, the silver is a really heavy metallic( big) flake or somethimg, does it take a special nozzle on your paint gun for this? http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429front_1.jpg

SUI-CY-COLE DIMARCO
07-04-2005, 10:04 PM
yes,it does depending on grain of metallic..........with that thick of metallic ask any lowrider painter...or flyte,lol

Bt273
07-05-2005, 04:39 AM
I wiil re direct my question,Billy or Bobby(cause I know you lurk), does it take a special nozzle to shoot heavy metallic?

Da-Bull
07-05-2005, 06:14 AM
I wiil re direct my question,Billy or Bobby(cause I know you lurk), does it take a special nozzle to shoot heavy metallic?
BT273 I got two words for ya, "F..N..Shop" brother. The F Man can help ya out and he is in your own back yard! Or maybe OB Eddie could tell ya, that Manhatten Queer seems to have all the answer's.

BILLY.B
07-06-2005, 05:32 AM
It doesn't really show well here but, the silver is a really heavy metallic( big) flake or somethimg, does it take a special nozzle on your paint gun for this? http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/429front_1.jpgJim you might find out what type of paint was used, and it will tell you the courseness of the metalliac. You might have to go to a bigger tip like I did on Wayne's boat. I think standard is 1.7 so you might have to go to a 2.0. You also have to remember that this will put out more paint and can cause metalliac's to sag or model so be carefull.

SUICYCOLE DIMARCO
07-06-2005, 07:31 AM
I wiil re direct my question,Billy or Bobby(cause I know you lurk), does it take a special nozzle to shoot heavy metallic?
it was redirected and answered please read quote above ^.....

ColeTR2
07-12-2005, 06:44 PM
Mike, if you mask off the area's you don't need to remove lettering and especially the anodizing ( Cav plates and hardware ) I would use EZ-OFF oven cleaner. Do alittle bit at a time and use a plastic bondo spreader to remove the lettering. You have to let the oven cleaner sit for a bit ( 2 to 3 min) and then remove. It may take a few times but it should do the job. You'll have to polish the area when done. Now if you wanted to remove the "Prime Time" I think it's on gel-coat and if it is you can color sand the name off and rub the area out. Good luck.
Billy Thanks!! the EZ-OFF worked Great!! for me to. What corse sand paper should I use to get the prime time off? it is on the gel-coat.

BILLY.B
07-13-2005, 06:44 AM
Billy Thanks!! the EZ-OFF worked Great!! for me to. What corse sand paper should I use to get the prime time off? it is on the gel-coat. Sorry Mike, what I mean't was to take the EZ-OFF to the "PRIMETIME" and then block sand when done to try and flatten the gel back out. When using One Shot lettering enamel it will leave a bit a raised area where the name use to be, so I block the area with 1000 grit and move up to 1500, then 2000, then buff out with compound, and then polish. Won't be perfect but close. If you decide to put another name on the boat it could right back on the same area and you'll never see it anyway. Hope this works for you. Take care.

ColeTR2
07-14-2005, 08:41 AM
Sorry Mike, what I mean't was to take the EZ-OFF to the "PRIMETIME" and then block sand when done to try and flatten the gel back out. When using One Shot lettering enamel it will leave a bit a raised area where the name use to be, so I block the area with 1000 grit and move up to 1500, then 2000, then buff out with compound, and then polish. Won't be perfect but close. If you decide to put another name on the boat it could right back on the same area and you'll never see it anyway. Hope this works for you. Take care.
I used the Easy-Off to take off some of the pin stripes near the "primetime" name on the black jel-coat. After taking the stripes off the jel-coat it looked like it had small blisters under where the stripe was. I was afrade that the Easy-Off was not compatible with jel-coat. So I take it the blisters is from the paint? So I will continue, itÂ’s working great. I will color sand the jel-coat like you said after I get all the paint off. And when I get the new name put on! IÂ’m going to have place in Upland called Krazy Colors! do it :) Thanks Billy!

BrendellaJet
07-20-2005, 08:09 AM
Billy B,
I recently gel coated my boat all black. Ive been polishing with 3M Imperial Compound and Finishing Material(Crystaliner in Costa Mesa told me to use it), I sanded up to 2000, hit it with a wool bonnet on a one speed disc grinder/polisher. It does a decent job, if I hit it with some carnuba(sp?) with the same setup(wool bonnet on the polisher) it shines up pretty well, but there are still some minor scratches in some places.
Question, I wonder if my technique is wrong? I start out with medium pressure, and buff till the compound is gone, lighter as it dries however that leaves some swirl marks. Is the wool pad the best thing to be using? Should I get a variable speed polisher instead? Can you recommend some technique to yield better results? Here is a pic, looks killer from 5 feet...
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Picture_007.jpg

flat broke
07-20-2005, 11:24 AM
Brendella,
I don't know dick about painting etc, so wait for Billy or Todd for the final word, but I think you may want to try a foam pad with 3M perfect series cutting compounds. I bet half the problem is just that it's a black boat and you're being really anal cause it's your baby :)
Good luck with it.
Chris

BILLY.B
07-21-2005, 04:51 AM
Billy B,
I recently gel coated my boat all black. Ive been polishing with 3M Imperial Compound and Finishing Material(Crystaliner in Costa Mesa told me to use it), I sanded up to 2000, hit it with a wool bonnet on a one speed disc grinder/polisher. It does a decent job, if I hit it with some carnuba(sp?) with the same setup(wool bonnet on the polisher) it shines up pretty well, but there are still some minor scratches in some places.
Question, I wonder if my technique is wrong? I start out with medium pressure, and buff till the compound is gone, lighter as it dries however that leaves some swirl marks. Is the wool pad the best thing to be using? Should I get a variable speed polisher instead? Can you recommend some technique to yield better results? Here is a pic, looks killer from 5 feet...
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/212Picture_007.jpg It sounds like your using the same pad to do the whole job. If so this is wrong. We use the foam pad system as it does a cleaner job and doesn't leave all that fuzz all over the shop. Now you gel-coated your boat so using the wool pad would cut better then the foam so you were right in your choice, but there is a polishing pad that you can buy and use that will work without leaving scratches, and then finish the area again with a black foam pad if your still not satisfied. Make sure your using the polish not the compound. When the compounds dry out they tend to get more "gritty" kinda like small particles of dirt that might be floating around in the air and as you continue to polish the area it will leave swirls or minor looking scratches that you just can't seem to get out. Make sure the area your buffing is clean and yes you should be using a varible speed buffer also. You'll want to slow the buffer down when you are doing the polishing part of the job so as not to dry out the polish so fast. Also, you might want to try and find some of the products Meguiars has out. We use Meguiars show room glaze #7 with the polishing pad and then follow it up with Meguiars Tech 1 wax. The wax works awesome and fills minor scratches, leaving the boat looking "SWEET". Hope this helps.

HammerDown
07-21-2005, 08:41 AM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1064DSC00046.jpg 1st... several years ago I did a wet color sand to my 1983 21' 7-color Daytona. Black is the main bottom color of the hull...it turned out great. I kept a good Maguires marine polish and 3M wax on it over the years with very good results. This has kept the colors rich and black, black.
HOWEVER...the boat just sat for some 6 weeks covered, when I uncovered it and used it yesterday it looked good BUT when I brought it home I noticed some gray/white clouded areas in the black Gel (on top), not all over just a few small 3-4" long area's. I quick rubbed it with some polish as that usually did the trick in the past, but this time it wouldn't touch it. I even tryed a wool buffer with 3M Perfect it-2 and polish...no good!
It looks to be (in) the black gel and not so much on the surface like oxidation normaly is.
Think I need to wet color sand those areas again...OR would products like 3M Perfect-3 (or) 3M Super Duty w/ wool buffer do the trick w/out the wet sand?
My fear...I don't know how deep the cloud is...OR how thick the Black Gel coat is

BILLY.B
07-25-2005, 07:04 AM
Sorry Hammerdown for not seeing this sooner. What did you have covering the boat while it was sitting???. The discolor is probably in all the colors but more visable in the black as the cloud your seeing is the clear gel going bad after all these years. If not in the other colors your lucky. Your gonna have to color sand the area, rubbing alone won't bring it back. You'll go thru the clear before you'll go thru the black. You might try a very small spot first with 800 grit and work your way up to 1500 / 2000 and then rub. If it's close to the surface the 800 grit should take the cloud out and the other grits will make it eaiser to buff out the sand scratches. Let me know what you find out.

HammerDown
07-25-2005, 07:50 AM
Billy thanks for getting back to me...no problem on the delay.
I posted another pic to show you the area I'm talking about.
Below is a older pic shortly after I did the wet color sand. This was about 7-8 years ago.
1st, the only clear over Gel is the (brownish fade) area on the top deck, and that still has full gloss. The rest of the Gel has no clear on it, and still looks good!
I always keep the boat covered with a Sunbrella canvas AND because of bird droppings I use a silver tarp to reflect the sun/heat. Moisture resistant yes, but air will flow under it.
As I mentioned for some reason just in one area, passenger side sponson (arrow) maybe 6-8" in the black I've got this whiteish haze (that just showed up after using the boat last week)...but it wasn't there when I uncovered the boat ). It's almost like something bleached/faided into the Gel!
I just came from wet sanding it with 600 then 800 and jumped to 1000. Then w/wool 2500 rpm buffer compounded with 3M Finesset-2 and then Meguiars Marine Polish. Son of a bitch is still there(kinda), not as much but I can still see some of it. And when I was color sanding I was getting some blackish residue!
My fear is how much more gel can I cut, and is the black color all the way through to the glass? Or will I cut through to one of the other 7 colors...understand what I'm saying?
Think I should just keep cutting...or maybe try something like 3M Super Duty compound with a wool bonnet or just let it go?
Shame there isn't some type of dye that could be rubbed in the black after sanding, know what I mean.
thanks for any further suggestions, and sorry for the looooong reply.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/10641983-21_Daytona.jpg

BILLY.B
07-25-2005, 11:05 AM
Billy thanks for getting back to me...no problem on the delay.
I posted another pic to show you the area I'm talking about.
Below is a older pic shortly after I did the wet color sand. This was about 7-8 years ago.
1st, the only clear over Gel is the (brownish fade) area on the top deck, and that still has full gloss. The rest of the Gel has no clear on it, and still looks good!
I always keep the boat covered with a Sunbrella canvas AND because of bird droppings I use a silver tarp to reflect the sun/heat. Moisture resistant yes, but air will flow under it.
As I mentioned for some reason just in one area, passenger side sponson (arrow) maybe 6-8" in the black I've got this whiteish haze (that just showed up after using the boat last week)...but it wasn't there when I uncovered the boat ). It's almost like something bleached/faided into the Gel!
I just came from wet sanding it with 600 then 800 and jumped to 1000. Then w/wool 2500 rpm buffer compounded with 3M Finesset-2 and then Meguiars Marine Polish. Son of a bitch is still there(kinda), not as much but I can still see some of it. And when I was color sanding I was getting some blackish residue!
My fear is how much more gel can I cut, and is the black color all the way through to the glass? Or will I cut through to one of the other 7 colors...understand what I'm saying?
Think I should just keep cutting...or maybe try something like 3M Super Duty compound with a wool bonnet or just let it go?
Shame there isn't some type of dye that could be rubbed in the black after sanding, know what I mean.
thanks for any further suggestions, and sorry for the looooong reply.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/10641983-21_Daytona.jpgI know what you mean about cutting into the other colors but when boats are done in the gel they are always backed up with black on the inside so I would think you'd only hit the black. It sounds like maybe this was a repaired area back in the day and it just decided to surface for whatever reason. I'd try alittle more and see what happens. Worse case is you blend it in with paint, and that can be done if you have a guy in your area that you trust. I wouldn't gel it due to the heavy line it might leave next to the existing colors.

HammerDown
07-25-2005, 06:18 PM
Billy, great info/suggestion thanks. I feel better that the black is all the way through, I'll gid a little deeper.
What the pic don't show is a orange pinstripe next to the black, so I'll have to be careful not to burn that off...as the haze is right next to it.
PS. Also, any product/compond you could suggest that cuts good with a wool buffer in general that acts as a color restore vs doing a light full wet color sand on the boat, then to be followed with a polish and wax?

BILLY.B
07-26-2005, 07:17 PM
Billy, great info/suggestion thanks. I feel better that the black is all the way through, I'll gid a little deeper.
What the pic don't show is a orange pinstripe next to the black, so I'll have to be careful not to burn that off...as the haze is right next to it.
PS. Also, any product/compond you could suggest that cuts good with a wool buffer in general that acts as a color restore vs doing a light full wet color sand on the boat, then to be followed with a polish and wax?You can try 3M super duty rubbing compound followed by Finesse It 2, or Black Ebony with a polishing pad, preferably a foam pad ( black pad ) on the polishing. I'll tell you another thing to try...Meguiars Tech1 wax. Goes on easy and you can apply it to the hole boat at once and then remove. Leaves it super glossy and the wax fills minor surface scratches even on black. I use it on my flat bottom and my black crew cab and love the way it works. Now I have also used it on several jobs we've painted and if you want to get really anal you can go over the job with a quick detail spray and wipe off again and that leaves the surface super, especially the dark colors.

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
08-11-2005, 10:39 PM
I just bought a 87' kachina jetboat and the gel is nice but it has a light fade to it. I polished it and it looked good but I know it can get prettier. What polish would you recomemd that i use to get maximum result and actually lasts? Also, what pad do I use to polish it with? Thanks in advance;)
Michael

BILLY.B
08-11-2005, 10:48 PM
I just bought a 87' kachina jetboat and the gel is nice but it has a light fade to it. I polished it and it looked good but I know it can get prettier. What polish would you recomemd that i use to get maximum result and actually lasts? Also, what pad do I use to polish it with? Thanks in advance;)
MichaelDo you mean it's hazy looking, or is there fade in the gel color itself???.

460 jus getn it
08-12-2005, 03:08 PM
Do you mean it's hazy looking, or is there fade in the gel color itself???.
billy i just talked to 396 and he said its hazy.......................

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
08-12-2005, 05:16 PM
here it is after a hand polish. I know it can look nicer......
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239side.jpg
here is a transom shot whis looks worse than the top.....
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/239polpump4.jpg

BILLY.B
08-12-2005, 07:47 PM
billy i just talked to 396 and he said its hazy.......................Does the hazyness go away if you get it wet with the hose?. If so try colorsanding it with 1500 and move up to 2000 wetordry. The reason for colorsanding the gel coat is to get the hazyness out, which could of been caused from sitting out and covered up in the sun. Use a cutting pad (wool) with 3M super duty cutting compound to remove sanding scratches. Once thats done you can use a black sponge pad with Finesse It 2 to bring back the gloss and remove swirl marks. Once finished try using Meguiars Tech Wax which can be bought at any auto parts store like Pep Boys or in your case try a Checker Shucks & Kragen, they should carry it. The wax can be applied to the complete boat before wiped off and will it really shiny and protected. I hope this info is usefull, any other questions don't hesitant to ask.

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
08-12-2005, 08:32 PM
It doesnt look better when it gets wet. it holds the polish good but I was just looking for a better polish to use with a machine. I dont think it needs colorsanded personally. I polished it last weekend by hand and its still holding its shine even after the monsoon. Lets say hat I didnt have to colorsand and just need a good polish, then what would you recommend?
396
thans again for your time;)

BILLY.B
08-14-2005, 11:19 AM
It doesnt look better when it gets wet. it holds the polish good but I was just looking for a better polish to use with a machine. I dont think it needs colorsanded personally. I polished it last weekend by hand and its still holding its shine even after the monsoon. Lets say hat I didnt have to colorsand and just need a good polish, then what would you recommend?
396
thans again for your time;)I'd still try the Tech Wax by Meguiars. It seems to really work good on the stuff we do.

grumps avenger
08-18-2005, 11:55 AM
billy,restoring a old avenger,have ground out all the cracks on the sides from docks or rtrailer,filled them with dyna glass and sanded.what the next step? sand the boat with what grid,what primer to use without pissing of my neighbors,and can we still use it a couple times this year before its all taken apart.thanks.

BILLY.B
08-18-2005, 09:56 PM
billy,restoring a old avenger,have ground out all the cracks on the sides from docks or rtrailer,filled them with dyna glass and sanded.what the next step? sand the boat with what grid,what primer to use without pissing of my neighbors,and can we still use it a couple times this year before its all taken apart.thanks.If you've done quite a bit of repairing then you'll want to sand the whole boat with 120 or 150 grit to make sure you get good adhesion especially around the chine area. Next you can primer but you said the key word ...Neighbors!!!!. Most primers are catalized now-a-days and will cause overspray. Go to your local auto paint store and ask them what they have that might work without a bunch of overspray, and i'd suggest you do this real early in the morning so there's little wind, and you might tell them to move there cars or you could supply the plastic and cover them to protect yourself. Me I use PCL polyester primer. Fills nice and sands easy. You could then guide coat the hull and block down with 320 wet-or-dry. Once thats done you could use a product by PPG. I use this and the product and the part # is DP-48, which is a sealer and it will put a nice seal over the hull until your ready to paint. Primer stays to porce and will suck up any oils from you skin or road film when towing which can cause problems later when painting. Good luck.

HammerDown
08-19-2005, 05:01 AM
what's the best product on the market to protect Black Metallic automotive paint from water spot and bird dropping etching...and...offers UV protection?
(damn that black paint gets HOT)!
Just bought a new black vehicle...silly me.

grumps avenger
08-19-2005, 10:30 AM
billy,thanks for the fast reply,explain the term ''guide coat''.

Terminal Velocity
08-20-2005, 09:07 AM
a guide coat is a light "fog" typically flat black over the primer for when you start block sanding the primer. Using long strokes with a long board or block you will sand off the guide coat and you will see where some of the guide coat is still there this is a low spot in the panel, if you begin to go through the primer next to a low spot trying to get it out you have a high spot or you sanded to much in one spot, re-prime and begin the process over. Typically you want to use a laquer for the guide coat because it won't gum up the paper so bad as an epoxy would, so i've been told. When i got my boat ready for the painter i believe i primed and block my boat at least 5 times, but i also don't have any bondo in my boat, and for fiberglass it's dang straight. Sorry for the long winded reply
But i'm no Billy!

Terminal Velocity
08-20-2005, 10:02 AM
here's a picture of Morg's boat with guide coat over the primer, like i say it's a "fog" overcoat.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/545P1130024.JPG

BILLY.B
08-21-2005, 06:11 AM
what's the best product on the market to protect Black Metallic automotive paint from water spot and bird dropping etching...and...offers UV protection?
(damn that black paint gets HOT)!
Just bought a new black vehicle...silly me.I use Merguiars products. And like i've told a few other guys the best product i've found for black is Tech Wax by Meguiars. It applys easily and leaves it looking wet. Now on my wifes Lincoln LS which is black I follow up the Tech Wax with a product called Quick Detailer also made by Meguiars. It gets rid of any residue that might be left over and the car looks awesome. You can get these products at most auto parts stores in your area. Hope this helps. Otherwise go buy a cover and cut out where the windows are, strap it down tight and drive around like that.....That would give you total protection until some theft took the cover.

tahiti cowboy
08-22-2005, 04:35 AM
Hi billy Im redoing a 20 ft cruiser what should I sand the gel with a real coarse sand paper or fine and can i use a DA on it im painting it back to gel so it will hold up longer, its going to be all black Im in michigan so the black wont be hot all the time cause we have only 3 months to use them and should the silver flake i have on the boat be striped back down to,the gel thanks i know i will have more ?????? but that it for now thanks gary

HammerDown
08-22-2005, 06:30 AM
... i've told a few other guys the best product i've found for black is Tech Wax by Meguiars. Otherwise go buy a cover and cut out where the windows are, strap it down tight and drive around like that.....That would give you total protection until some theft took the cover.
1) if (you) say the NXT Next Generation Teck Wax is good stuff, then I'll buy it. Personally, I didn't know if that stuff was any good (or) just another bottle of $15.00 marketing hype or not.
2) oh, very funny about the driving around with a car cover on...LOL
3) thanks for the feedback.
PS. if you recall my situation w/ my 21 Daytona about some black areas in my Gel Coat. Meguiars Marine color restore seemed to work pretty well.
Keep up the good work here.

BILLY.B
08-22-2005, 07:17 PM
1) if (you) say the NXT Next Generation Teck Wax is good stuff, then I'll buy it. Personally, I didn't know if that stuff was any good (or) just another bottle of $15.00 marketing hype or not.
2) oh, very funny about the driving around with a car cover on...LOL
3) thanks for the feedback.
PS. if you recall my situation w/ my 21 Daytona about some black areas in my Gel Coat. Meguiars Marine color restore seemed to work pretty well.
Keep up the good work here.I thought the same thing about the $15.00 bucks, but it really did a nice job for me. I do remember your 21 Daytona and glad to hear it all worked out for the best. It's stuff like that that can ruin your day everytime you think about it. Take care....

sweetyellow
08-27-2005, 07:31 PM
Hello. Just got back from Havesu and notice a 2.5 in wide by 3-4 inch long gouge on the bottom side of by bow. It is right in the center as the bow as it gets closer to the bottom of the boat. I ran into some rock and said Oh Shi_. It looks like it's pretty deep. Can you recommend a good repair shop that is located around Southern California. I live in Long Beach.
Thanks Bill

BILLY.B
08-28-2005, 06:45 AM
Hello. Just got back from Havesu and notice a 2.5 in wide by 3-4 inch long gouge on the bottom side of by bow. It is right in the center as the bow as it gets closer to the bottom of the boat. I ran into some rock and said Oh Shi_. It looks like it's pretty deep. Can you recommend a good repair shop that is located around Southern California. I live in Long Beach.
Thanks BillI'll shoot you a pm to find out exactly where you live and what shop would be closest.

retromek
08-30-2005, 08:42 AM
Someone I Know continues to use Omni paint, the paint sales guy says how much less expensive it is. So, customers and this friend of mine pick this brand of paint.
The first car we used it on took 4 coats of base to get decent coverage lots of spray time. It was a solid color (off white) It came out real good (customer happy)
This last deal we painted this weekend -a dark color with pearl and metalic-same problem but worse. A medium size car but used a gallon and after we pulled it out of the booth there were streaks and see-thru areas of the color to the primer sealer coat.
Look there are a bunch of shoulda could woudas. But these guys (Paint salesman and this freind of mine) want to try and fix it by putting a toner in the clear to bury the defects.
By toner I mean that product by house of color that goes in the clear can't remember the name exactly. Does this Idea work?
My Idea was to wait and get another gallon of base before shooting the clear, But their impaitence was disasterous. The result is wasted time and a redo.
So I've got a statement and a question.
Cheap Paint is just that. for a fancy mix, Pearls,ice crystals, metalics cheap paint ain't cheap if you have to buy twice as much to do the same job.
The question is would a tinted sealer/primer coat that matches the base fix this problem? Like, could they still use the lower price paint or a less amount of paint when you tint the primer?
Would the tinted clear over the whole car fix the current problem?

BILLY.B
08-30-2005, 09:08 PM
Someone I Know continues to use Omni paint, the paint sales guy says how much less expensive it is. So, customers and this friend of mine pick this brand of paint.
The first car we used it on took 4 coats of base to get decent coverage lots of spray time. It was a solid color (off white) It came out real good (customer happy)
This last deal we painted this weekend -a dark color with pearl and metalic-same problem but worse. A medium size car but used a gallon and after we pulled it out of the booth there were streaks and see-thru areas of the color to the primer sealer coat.
Look there are a bunch of shoulda could woudas. But these guys (Paint salesman and this freind of mine) want to try and fix it by putting a toner in the clear to bury the defects.
By toner I mean that product by house of color that goes in the clear can't remember the name exactly. Does this Idea work?
My Idea was to wait and get another gallon of base before shooting the clear, But their impaitence was disasterous. The result is wasted time and a redo.
So I've got a statement and a question.
Cheap Paint is just that. for a fancy mix, Pearls,ice crystals, metalics cheap paint ain't cheap if you have to buy twice as much to do the same job.
The question is would a tinted sealer/primer coat that matches the base fix this problem? Like, could they still use the lower price paint or a less amount of paint when you tint the primer?
Would the tinted clear over the whole car fix the current problem?What color was the paint you put on the car and what color were you covering???. If you were using lets say a dark color metallic (blue) that is transparent and tried to cover a light grey primer it will take you along time to get the coverage you need not to mention get it even. So to answer your question...Yes you could use a tinted sealer that is close to the color to make it eaiser on you and you would use less materials. I have used Omni as a base and then cover it with the expensive stuff. Omni works good but you have to know it's limitations. You get what you pay for, and if your going to do metallics my suggestion is to use DBC or DBU.

retromek
09-03-2005, 01:23 PM
Thanks Billy B for the reply, thats exactly what we were doing, a metallic blue over a medium gray sealer.
Customer says it fine, so one less headache for them, His words, "its not a show car"
I use SW 7000 on my stuff coverage is great.

BILLY.B
09-08-2005, 05:16 PM
Billy, do you know a custom paint place called Krazy Kolors , I have a really old business card from them, or is that your place ?
I'll have a few questions for you in the near future as we restore an ol 71 Schiada flatty.
Thanks, Scott.Yeah Scott thats me. Unless it's not in CA and someone copied my name of some 30yrs. My # is 909-982-8555.

victorfb
09-09-2005, 10:24 AM
what a great thread billy, thanks. took a while to read through it but ive read some real interesting stuff for sure. the one thing i want to mention is on the paint stripper (jasco), i tried some of that a couple years ago on a clear coat (paint) that was over a metal flake gel in poor condition. the stripper did infact eat away at the gel coat a bit, especially in the edges were it pooled a bit more. just wanted to add my experience with it so to warn others before they think its totally safe to use if you plan to try and bring back the original gel.
Question: i plan to restore a 20' kachina, but love the look of the old schiadas, and hallets that have the wood inlay panels. im told they did that by actually printing the wood grain onto the matting/cloth to get that effect but is no longer available. so im looking into real wood veneers or possibly air brushing the wood grain on then spraying a clear gel over just the panels and blending the seems of the panels and new gel of the rest of the hull. will the clear gel just over the painted panels effect the paint any, and will i have adhesion issues?
now a question on spray guns: to spray the gel i have a devilbis HVLP Finishline3, no problem, the HVLP wont distort the finish as much when trying to build it up. my question is have you tried the newer LVLP guns for paint applications. i believe some of them create higher than 10psi at the tip and im not sure if california allows this or not. but for us home hobbiest that rarely get looked at ( and many dont have a large enough compressor to run a HVLP) does the LVLP guns compare in finish quality? im still using siphon guns and think its time to upgrade. i have a 5hp 60 gal sanborn industrial so the HVLP is ok, but id like to get some input on the newer LVLP guns if you have any. i do alot of smaller projects that require a smaller (touch up) gun. so far the sata (pricey) and the devilbis (still pricey but affordable) and the astro pneumatic (sata copy and very inexpensive) have been what ive found. any experience with mini guns? ive heard that the astro pneumatic guns are actually doing well in spray gun competions but im still leary about the whole "you get what you pay for" deal.
please excuse the long post. im just stoked that you are willing to help like you have been and im sure ill have a bunch of (more techincal) questions as my painting projects arrise. oops, shouldnt have warned you like that.

BILLY.B
09-10-2005, 05:18 AM
what a great thread billy, thanks. took a while to read through it but ive read some real interesting stuff for sure. the one thing i want to mention is on the paint stripper (jasco), i tried some of that a couple years ago on a clear coat (paint) that was over a metal flake gel in poor condition. the stripper did infact eat away at the gel coat a bit, especially in the edges were it pooled a bit more. just wanted to add my experience with it so to warn others before they think its totally safe to use if you plan to try and bring back the original gel.
Question: i plan to restore a 20' kachina, but love the look of the old schiadas, and hallets that have the wood inlay panels. im told they did that by actually printing the wood grain onto the matting/cloth to get that effect but is no longer available. so im looking into real wood veneers or possibly air brushing the wood grain on then spraying a clear gel over just the panels and blending the seems of the panels and new gel of the rest of the hull. will the clear gel just over the painted panels effect the paint any, and will i have adhesion issues?
now a question on spray guns: to spray the gel i have a devilbis HVLP Finishline3, no problem, the HVLP wont distort the finish as much when trying to build it up. my question is have you tried the newer LVLP guns for paint applications. i believe some of them create higher than 10psi at the tip and im not sure if california allows this or not. but for us home hobbiest that rarely get looked at ( and many dont have a large enough compressor to run a HVLP) does the LVLP guns compare in finish quality? im still using siphon guns and think its time to upgrade. i have a 5hp 60 gal sanborn industrial so the HVLP is ok, but id like to get some input on the newer LVLP guns if you have any. i do alot of smaller projects that require a smaller (touch up) gun. so far the sata (pricey) and the devilbis (still pricey but affordable) and the astro pneumatic (sata copy and very inexpensive) have been what ive found. any experience with mini guns? ive heard that the astro pneumatic guns are actually doing well in spray gun competions but im still leary about the whole "you get what you pay for" deal.
please excuse the long post. im just stoked that you are willing to help like you have been and im sure ill have a bunch of (more techincal) questions as my painting projects arrise. oops, shouldnt have warned you like that.Yes when using any stripper you have to be real carefull and you NEVER let it sit especially when it's thick or it will do damage. And always make sure you neutralize the area you've done with water and then move to the next area. On the gun issue I have not used the LVLP guns. And I have all SATA's all though i'm trying a new Devilbis and even though it works nice it isn't as user friendly as my SATA. If it were me i'd buy the Astro seeing as your not making a living doing this and it's not a day in and day out hobby for you, Just keep the gun in good working order and it will last you a long time. On the wood issue, I know where there is some of this stuff available, will the guy let it go is another ?????. If your interested let me know. And no problem with helping you out if you have any other ?????????. Good luck...Billy-B

victorfb
09-17-2005, 07:41 PM
ok, made the switch to HVLP and i screwed the pooch. last week the binks#7 wasnt wanting to play any longer so i was forced to use a touch up gun to spray a truck hood (black single stage, cheap stuff), and as you guessed it the finish wasnt the best. but thats ok, i just wanted a good base coat to sand and smooth so the finish coat can be done today. i got a new devillbis HVLP gun for my B day and thought id try it out. being stuborn i didnt learn on something unimportant and sprayed the hood. well now i know what they mean by learning to use the new guns. i had so much orange peel it wasnt funny, well ok it was funny. too late to thin the mix and too much was down to fix it. i tried increasing the preasure but since im a rookie i didnt know how far i could increase without damaging the gun or ruin the finish even worse, didnt even think about lessening the spray volume. i figure ill sand again smooth and this time thin the mix a bit more and lessen the spray volume way down. i think i was laying it way too thick, but never useing the HVLP i didnt know i needed to go alot slower. the gun itself wasnt bad to get used to. having the mix on top wasnt as weird as i thought it would be but the fact that i need a stand for the gun sucked. ill be making stands and mounting them all over now. not so easy to set the gun down for a second if you need. (some of you know i am dissabled and walk with two canes, so carrying the gun is difficult.) all in all, i love the new gun. just need to learn how to use it. i knew i shouldnt have dumped the old refrigerators out, those are allways fun to practice on. and now that i got an airbrush, the mailbox will be in trouble. hahaha just thought id share my HVLP learning experience with you all.

YeLLowBoaT
09-18-2005, 02:34 AM
Well as a painter by trade I have been uisng a conventional gun for years.... I was planing on buying a new gun for stricky automotive paints.( paint my boat and just to "have") So my Q is this how much better( read as ez of use for automotive paint) is the use of hvlp guns vs conventional?? I have been told by some automotive painting "experts" that you get a much better finish with less sanding with hvlp vs convt. then again every expert has the're own way of doing things. I know I can use a conv gun and get pretty good results I just would like to make painting my boat as ez as poss for myself.
On a side note if it is really alot better to go with hvlp coudl you direct me too a good gun that won't kill me( <$200)? I really appreachate your help in this matter.
maybe I should just pull out the airless with a 517 and goto town =)
Thanks for the help

victorfb
09-18-2005, 09:37 AM
Yellowboat, im sure your wanting billy to answer your question for ya, i just thought id throw in my $.02 obviously i cannot tell you that the HVLP is easier to use just yet. but from all the people ive talked to and what i read on the net, the HVLP lays the paint softer which helps reduce the overspray and saves an estimated 30% of your paint. its weird having so much air going through the gun but only 10 psi at the tip. thats were it threw me off when first spraying, as i (like you) am used to adjusting a conventional gun. to get good atomization out the tip it takes more volume than a conventional gun so you will need a large air supply. 60 gal 5hp compressor is what i use. as for the gun, i got the devillbis finish line3 with a 1.3 tip and from my local paint store it was about $150. there are mail order places on the net that have better prices but you dont get to feel the guns in your hand before you buy. i thought the devillbis felt comfortable. plus ive heard ALOT of good about the gun. "Spraygunworld.com" has some great deals and recomondations if you want to research it. all in all i think im going to like the HVLP guns once i learn how to use it properly. though my main reason for getting it was to spray gel coat, and knowing that when spraying gel you need to build it much thicker on each coat, so the HVLP wont blow the material as hard and distort the finish when trying to build thickness and getting too close. for paint i just need to learn how much paint should be sprayed through the gun while spraying. i think once i learn that the finish will come out great. they seem to atomize very well. hope any of this helps ya. and obviously for the best advise, Billy is your man.

victorfb
09-19-2005, 10:31 AM
the learning curve continues. i sanded and smoothed out my orange peeled hood and resprayed it useing a thinner mix and less paint volume through the gun. man does that make you go slow. with such a small amout of paint going through the gun i was finding myself getting closer to the work so i can see the paint hitting its target. probably a big mistake as i still got a lesser quality finish than i am used to. i think one of the most important things to know when useing a HVLP gun is that you need patience. going slower, and staying consistant in distance and gun angle seems to be a major factor in achieving better finish quality. i didnt have other tips to play around with as of yet so there may be some more learning in that aspect aswell. all in all i think once mastered, the HVLP gun will be a great tool, but im not yet ready to do a complete swap. was thinking of getting a new touch up gun but for now, untill i get the feel and knowlege of useing HVLP guns, i will keep the conventionals in the shop. practice practice practice. i hope the supply house starts giving me a discount on paint, im gunna need it. lol

HBLavey
09-20-2005, 10:33 PM
Billy - Thanks for the time you put into this thread. I can't seem to find a clear answer to my question.... should be an easy one for you:
My boat has a very basic paint theme (Red automotive paint stripes on top of White gel coat). I decided I want to change the scheme (winter project). Is there a way to remove the red auto paint and restore the gel coat that is under it? Or am I better off removing the red paint to a satisfactory level and painting over the areas where the stripes once were?

BILLY.B
09-28-2005, 05:51 AM
Billy - Thanks for the time you put into this thread. I can't seem to find a clear answer to my question.... should be an easy one for you:
My boat has a very basic paint theme (Red automotive paint stripes on top of White gel coat). I decided I want to change the scheme (winter project). Is there a way to remove the red auto paint and restore the gel coat that is under it? Or am I better off removing the red paint to a satisfactory level and painting over the areas where the stripes once were? Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but VACATION was calling and I answered it. To answer your question it can be done but it will take time. Are the stripes clear coated or just single stage red??? I have taken a DA sander ( always keep the sander flat) and started with 320 and worked my way up to 2000 and then rubbed the area out so I had a white boat again. Chances are you might be able to see where the old stripes were ( painted areas tend to show where they were even when the have been removed, it like raises the gel coat slightly is the best way I can decribe it) but only you'll know and you might be able to incorporate you new scheme to go over some of the old area so as to take you eye away from it. If you don't trust yourself with the DA it can be done with a block and if you go that direction i'd start with 500 grit wet or dry and work your way up to 2000 wet or dry ( always use water with a little dish soap put in the bucket) and rub out the area. Hope this helps, worse case you put the new colors back where they the old ones were.

gochappy
09-29-2005, 02:59 PM
I was planning on gelcoating my 1962 boat however a local car painter said there would be problems with it.....he suggested I use paint with flex agent and it was probably still going to crack....I currently have the boat sanded to 80 grit for good adhesion of the gel but now am worried about which to use...its going to be a simple red and white color scheme...is one going to be better than the other...I am in a cold climate if that makes a difference and if paint, is one brand better for this than the other......Thanks

BILLY.B
09-30-2005, 06:09 AM
I was planning on gelcoating my 1962 boat however a local car painter said there would be problems with it.....he suggested I use paint with flex agent and it was probably still going to crack....I currently have the boat sanded to 80 grit for good adhesion of the gel but now am worried about which to use...its going to be a simple red and white color scheme...is one going to be better than the other...I am in a cold climate if that makes a difference and if paint, is one brand better for this than the other......ThanksGelcoating takes more time but it is alot more durable to the average boater who leaves his boat outside (covered or not), or who allows people to walk on the deck etc. If you were to paint it you don't need to add any flex agent. You get what you pay for so my suggestion is to use a quality paints such as PPG and you should have no problems. You could go either way, single stage or base coat clear coat. The base coat clear coat will cost more due to materials needed. Is this restoration or just a fun type deal????. If it's a fun type deal and your trying to save some $$$$$$ i'd single stage it especially if the majority of the hull is going to be white. Let me know if you need anymore help.

HBLavey
10-03-2005, 07:56 PM
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but VACATION was calling and I answered it. To answer your question it can be done but it will take time. Are the stripes clear coated or just single stage red??? I have taken a DA sander ( always keep the sander flat) and started with 320 and worked my way up to 2000 and then rubbed the area out so I had a white boat again. Chances are you might be able to see where the old stripes were ( painted areas tend to show where they were even when the have been removed, it like raises the gel coat slightly is the best way I can decribe it) but only you'll know and you might be able to incorporate you new scheme to go over some of the old area so as to take you eye away from it. If you don't trust yourself with the DA it can be done with a block and if you go that direction i'd start with 500 grit wet or dry and work your way up to 2000 wet or dry ( always use water with a little dish soap put in the bucket) and rub out the area. Hope this helps, worse case you put the new colors back where they the old ones were.
Here I was thinking you were getting tired of answering questions.... Thanks for the info! The red stripes are not clear coated. I'll give the DA sander a try once I'm done boating for the season, then I may have a question or two about painting.

Fired Up
10-10-2005, 10:27 PM
Hi Billy,
I have some pin stripping on my Canyon that has worn/chipped in many spots. I'd like to fill them back in. What type of paint do I use?

BILLY.B
10-11-2005, 05:50 AM
Hi Billy,
I have some pin stripping on my Canyon that has worn/chipped in many spots. I'd like to fill them back in. What type of paint do I use?One Shot lettering enamel. Or if you have a striper in your area take it to him because if I remember right some of those colors are mixed so it might be cheaper depending how many colors you need to do.

steelcomp
10-11-2005, 07:44 PM
Hey Billy,
Sent you a PM a few days ago. Did you get a chance to read it??
Thanks. :D

steelcomp
10-12-2005, 07:55 PM
Hey Billy,
Sent you a PM a few days ago. Did you get a chance to read it??
Thanks. :D
Thanks for getting back to me. :D

victorfb
10-14-2005, 11:17 PM
Billy, i have a ford F550 that has a paint issue. the bed came from an aftermarket supplier and was painted to match the cab. it was fine for a while but now the bed seems to be getting real hazy. when looking at it from an angle its almost like the color coat disappears, but when you look at it striaght on the color seems fine. so im thinking its the clear coat that is getting hazy or cloudy. have you come across this before? the cab looks great still, just the bed is getting this. and since it was done aftermarket im sure its a differant clear. im going to try and get ahold of the aftermarket dealer in the morning, its a company called "rollalong". i hope they have some sort of waranty for this. its an 05 truck. if not, is re-spraying the only answer?

sidewound
10-16-2005, 10:59 PM
Hey Billy!
Thanks for the great thread and all the advice you've handed out ot everyone.
My question...................................
I want to paint my boat this winter. I'll do it in my garage. I don't have a fancy paint booth but I will come up with some sort of ventilation setup. Maybe a visqueen tent or something.
I live in the midwest but the garage is heated. I'm not sure how constant I can keep the tempurature though.
I'm thinking red and may do some graphics in white yellow orange etc.
Could you suggest an easy product to use? I have painted a couple of cars in the shop but it was years ago. I used single stage metallic and it was extremely hard to get a good result but they came out ok.
I'm just wondering if there's a product that even a bumbler like me can use and get good results.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Peace Man!
CESAR

victorfb
10-16-2005, 11:08 PM
hey sidewound. billy is definatly the guy to answer your questions, but from my past experiences, a two stage paint allways comes out much nicer and easier to apply than a single stage. ive had good luck with "Xtreme" clear coats, and have used house of colors base coats with good results. i use the medium or fast dry clear because i dont have the nice spray booth like you do and want to get it to dry as fast as possible before bugs and dust adhere. still with good results. and its lasted on the pump for almost two seasons now with no signs of deteriation.(parts with most wear) talk with your local paint supplier and tell them what your intensions are and they should give you the best of what they have available.

BILLY.B
10-20-2005, 06:23 AM
Hey Billy!
Thanks for the great thread and all the advice you've handed out ot everyone.
My question...................................
I want to paint my boat this winter. I'll do it in my garage. I don't have a fancy paint booth but I will come up with some sort of ventilation setup. Maybe a visqueen tent or something.
I live in the midwest but the garage is heated. I'm not sure how constant I can keep the tempurature though.
I'm thinking red and may do some graphics in white yellow orange etc.
Could you suggest an easy product to use? I have painted a couple of cars in the shop but it was years ago. I used single stage metallic and it was extremely hard to get a good result but they came out ok.
I'm just wondering if there's a product that even a bumbler like me can use and get good results.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Peace Man!
CESARWhen taking on a project like you intend to do this winter it can be alot of fun as long as you take your TIME!!!...Using a single stage paint can be done but that's where the time factor comes in. You have to be patient, and not having a booth can be a problem especially with single stage and seeing as you want to do the boat in red i'd suggest a 2 stage paint anyway. I'd base coat the boat in white first (after boat is preped) and lay the graphics out. Painting red over a white base will save you material as the red will cover faster not to mention white is much cheaper then red. Spray the yellow, then orange, then finish off with the red. Make sure you use a midcoat clear ( House of Kolor SG-100 ) over any graphic color you do so if by chance you get any overspray on them you can clean it off with some Comet and alittle water on a rag to get it off. When done with the boat (spraying) you can put a couple of clear coats (urethane clear) over the job. Let it dry for a couple of days then colorsand with 400 wet or dry sandpaper and re-clear. This will get your edge's down to next to nothing. I do a razor blade trick instead of the clearing deal but when people see me do the razor blade deal they think i'm crazy because the chance of screwing the job up increases by 100% but when i'm done you can't feel any edges at all. I use PPG and House of Kolor products which can be more expensive then some of the off color brands but that's not to say that the off color brands (cheaper) can't get the job done. Using a faster reducer came minimize problems (bugs, dust , lint...etc) but using a fast reducer in cold weather or in high humidity areas can also pose a problem with blushing. If blushing does occur you have to go to a slower reducer to give the moisture time to escape before the top layer of paint drys and traps it in. As far as the clear goes that would be a tough question. When I went back to Wisconsion to do a custom 75ft house boat for a good cutomer of mine all the code #'s that I know out here didn't apply there. So i'd go with a top name clear like a PPG or House of Kolor for the good UV ray protection....Remember taking your time will payoff in the end. Hope this helps you out, and if you need anything else let me know.

VanDeano
10-21-2005, 01:11 AM
Billy,
I finished painting my 27 Carrera about 3 months ago with Algrip 2000. white. You can color sand this paint and buff out any marks or scratches you may get later, not like the regular Algrip). My question is I would like to put some graphics on it. Nothing to fancy maybe 2 to 4 different colors. Our maybe some flames. What type of paint should I use. If I were to use 2 stage paint would I clear the whole boat when done painting graphics or just over the graphics? The boat is white so Im worried if I clear the whole thing it might turn yellow. One other option I have is I have a vinyl cutter that is able to make graphics. Could that come into play?
Thank you in advance if you have any suggestions.
Dean

BILLY.B
10-24-2005, 06:21 AM
Billy,
I finished painting my 27 Carrera about 3 months ago with Algrip 2000. white. You can color sand this paint and buff out any marks or scratches you may get later, not like the regular Algrip). My question is I would like to put some graphics on it. Nothing to fancy maybe 2 to 4 different colors. Our maybe some flames. What type of paint should I use. If I were to use 2 stage paint would I clear the whole boat when done painting graphics or just over the graphics? The boat is white so Im worried if I clear the whole thing it might turn yellow. One other option I have is I have a vinyl cutter that is able to make graphics. Could that come into play?
Thank you in advance if you have any suggestions.
DeanI'm not to familiar with Algrip but if it was me i'd lay out the graphics or the flames that I wanted, sand the area and put down a good sealer just to protect myself from any problems that mixing different brands may cause. Once that was done you could use House of Kolor pearl base coats or there candies. Or if you wanted solid colors you could any direction you wanted. You'll have to clear coat the area you do to protect any fades or shadowing you might do. Good luck.

VanDeano
10-25-2005, 03:03 AM
Billy do you do graphics? If so, do you have a website to view them?
Thanks,
Dean

BILLY.B
10-25-2005, 06:22 AM
Billy do you do graphics? If so, do you have a website to view them?
Thanks,
DeanYes to your first question and NO to your second one. I'm in the process of collecting pictures from some 30yrs of doing this and hopefully someday i'll get the site done.

hottrodder
10-26-2005, 09:35 AM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/93FR3quarterResized.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/93LRrFenderRustResized.JPG
Good Morning Billy- I hope to be able to join you and the NKRA members at the 06 vacation. I had a great time there 2 or 3 years ago. You really seem to have single handedly started a rebirth of the Beismeyer/K boat craze.
I read through this whole thread and while I learned a lot I didn't run across my specific situation and maybe that's because it's auto related. After sitting in my various backyards for 10 years and doing nothing but a put a battery in it every few years I've decided to do a little work to the '37 pictured above. The key word here is LITTLE, relatively. The car runs but the surface rust is growing and the Nason red thining.
It started with removing the rear fenders to put patch panels in place of the cancer. Then I threw some 220 at the rear quarter just to see what would come up. The primer was very thin and it wasn't long before I was to bare metal over most of the panel. I stopped before doing to much more because I wasn't sure how to proceed as I looked ahead.
The end result of body work for me is to patch the fenders, Grind out some lead (more on this in a minute), and put a fresh few coats of primer on it before returning it to the yard. I'd like to not have to strip the car but I'm concerned about having a mix of bare metal and old to primer to shoot over. Is there a primer/sealer that can be sprayed over this surface? I used to use something called 401K but i don't know if it's still available. I've not shot anything in years.
Regarding the 'lead'. I see working marks from a grinding wheel on the metal so I'm pretty sure this isn't original. In this case it's probably some substitute like Aluma-Lead. I've heard horror stories of working with and painting over lead which is why I propose grinding it out. What's your opinion?
Thanks Billy for taking the time to read and reply to mine and all other questions.

myoung
10-27-2005, 01:02 AM
Good Morning Billy- I hope to be able to join you and the NKRA members at the 06 vacation. I had a great time there 2 or 3 years ago. You really seem to have single handedly started a rebirth of the Beismeyer/K boat craze.
I read through this whole thread and while I learned a lot I didn't run across my specific situation and maybe that's because it's auto related. After sitting in my various backyards for 10 years and doing nothing but a put a battery in it every few years I've decided to do a little work to the '37 pictured above. The key word here is LITTLE, relatively. The car runs but the surface rust is growing and the Nason red thining.
It started with removing the rear fenders to put patch panels in place of the cancer. Then I threw some 220 at the rear quarter just to see what would come up. The primer was very thin and it wasn't long before I was to bare metal over most of the panel. I stopped before doing to much more because I wasn't sure how to proceed as I looked ahead.
The end result of body work for me is to patch the fenders, Grind out some lead (more on this in a minute), and put a fresh few coats of primer on it before returning it to the yard. I'd like to not have to strip the car but I'm concerned about having a mix of bare metal and old to primer to shoot over. Is there a primer/sealer that can be sprayed over this surface? I used to use something called 401K but i don't know if it's still available. I've not shot anything in years.
Regarding the 'lead'. I see working marks from a grinding wheel on the metal so I'm pretty sure this isn't original. In this case it's probably some substitute like Aluma-Lead. I've heard horror stories of working with and painting over lead which is why I propose grinding it out. What's your opinion?
Thanks Billy for taking the time to read and reply to mine and all other questions.
Hey there, hope you don't mind me offering a little help.
First off, you're going to have to get that suface rust off before you reprimer if you want it to be workable some time down the road. I know you don't want to strip it, but if you don't want the car to return to the earth, you really need to. If you just cover it with more primer it will still continue to rust and become an even bigger problem down the road. You'll want to avoid grinding if you can since this will cause a couple problems, one being the obvious thinning of the metal especially in raised areas, and the other being the creation of a surface that will need a lot of attention when future bodywork commences. A third problem can also arise depending on your choice of coverage before putting the car back outside, this being the rust coming back even worse due to a ground up surface.
The best method for getting rid of the rust is, of course, some sort of stripping, be it media blasting or chemical. However, if you don't want to go that route, then use a sander instead of a grinder with no less than 80 grit discs on a DA or @ 150 on a disc sander. You're gonna go through a lot of discs. Media blasting for rust can be dangerous to your surface if the media used creates too much heat, you end up with a lot of warping. Another draw back with blasting is the ammount of mess with the media getting caught in all the little cracks and openings, you'll be vaccuming for days. However, blasting is pretty cheap and fast and it leaves a nice surface for primering, a bit rough, but great for adhesion. Of course, you will have to primer it right away or the rust process will start over again rather quickly.
With chemical stripping you have a few issues as well. It can also be messy, but worse if not properly neutralized it can start the rust going again rather rapidly. There are also a couple ways you can go with chemical stripping depending on the severity of the rust. The most obvious way to chemical strip is to tear the car apart and send the panels to be dipped. This is fine for the fenders and hoods and trunk lid, but I doubt you want to strip down the body for dipping. That's fine, since I dont recommend dipping bodies anyway. If nothing else, you can have the body media stripped or sanded and chemical the rest. However, if the rust is not that bad, and you have lots of time to kill, another method that has worked for me for chemical stripping surface rust is to use metal prep and scotch brite and a whole lot of elbow grease. I've brought back some pretty nasty metal from the dead doing it this way, but it is a lot of work. The heavier rust usually has to be 'cut down' with a DA sander or anything else you have that wont dig in to the metal surface very much. Then it's scrub, rinse, repeat, till it's all gone.
Next up, your lead. The factory lead could have moved over the years and somebody may have ground it to bring it back into shape, this is quite common actually. If this is not the case, then you may be right and somebody has already replaced the lead with all metal or something similar. Easiest way to tell is to see if it will melt out. Which brings me to another point, never grind out lead. First of all, it's not necessary, and second it just creates damage to the sheet metal(and you if you dont use a dust mask). While you're at it, dont grind out any kind of filler, it's just a waste of time and makes a hell of a mess. Go get yourself some mapp gas or propane bottles and a torch head for doing copper plumbing(I use an auto lighting one, much easier). Use this along with a stiff putty knife and a wire brush to melt out lead, or with just the putty knife to remove body filler. Don't worry, it won't create heat as fast as an oxy/acetylene torch will and won't create any additional damage beyond what the body filler is covering, well, as long as you don't just hold the heat in one place forever. This will make removing filler go faster and with a lot less mess. Once you remove the lead you will probably find rust under it, treat this before covering the seam with filler. I always use all metal to replace lead, but you can also use dura glass. Both are strong and water tight, and both are a pain to work with. Dont try to finish with it, just fill in the space and finish with regular filler.
lastly, your primer. What primer to use is a subjective thing and depends on who you talk to. The one constant, however, is that primer is porous and soaks up water like a sponge, your surface rust will come back if you don't do something with it besides spray it on and throw it out into the elements. I personally use PPG products and have been using NCP-270 for a while now. I don't do much spraying and haven't bought any in a while, so for all I know it may be illeagle by now. Rest assured, there will be something available like it. It's kind of the replacement for the old 'K' stuff, sprays heavy and sand nice as long as you sand it soon. Wait too long and it's a rock. Once you get your primer laid down, if you know you won't be getting back to it any time soon then put some kind of top coat on it. Go down to the local paint supply and see if the have some mixed paint a customer didn't want and they want to get rid of, you can usually get it cheap. Sray a good coat of some kind of paint over the primer to seal it up, even clear will work.
Hope this helps some, sorry it's so long.