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View Full Version : fiberglass crack.. and fuel leaking from it? help...



Burn504
08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
here are a few pics of what im dealing with. I have torn the carpet out of that area so that is what the orange/brown gunk is. The spot is not soft if that means anything to you gurus. This is a 1978 Kachina. Rear left corner(drivers side(left hand drive)). I assume fiberglass tanks. And only one of the tanks is doing this.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071457.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071459.jpg
What i do know.. Crack seen has always been there(2years). I assumed it was from the swim step, but the step is solid and so is the area around it on both sides so i didnt worry about it. Fuel started leaking a few months ago I think because the boat hasnt been in use due to the floods here in TX. While it was stored and under the cover i could smell some fuel when walking by it. Today is the first day i cleaned it up and was gonna take it out. I did not take it out obviously.
Do not know if the crack is where the tank is leaking from or farther up on the tank and running toward the back because of the angle of the boat.
I have been told that i need to cut the tanks out and replace....
What are your guys thoughts on the best and easiest way to fix this?

DUCKY
08-22-2007, 02:43 PM
Take a pic of the area from a little farther away. If I am seeing your pic right, That is the corner of the transom where the transom meets the side of the boat, and those bolts are the swim step bolts through the transom, right? If so, then is the spot with the old carpet glue is actually the fuel tank, and not the side of the boat?
Regardless, if that is fuel leaking out, then it must be coming from the tank, and yes the tank must be removed and replaced. No one in their right mind will attempt to repair a fiberglass fuel tank.

Burn504
08-22-2007, 02:46 PM
Take a pic of the area from a little farther away. If I am seeing your pic right, That is the corner of the transom where the transom meets the side of the boat, and those bolts are the swim step bolts through the transom, right?
yea that is the corner of the transom and the fuel tanks(where they meet). The bolts are from the swim step.
let me get some more pics if i can

Burn504
08-22-2007, 02:54 PM
here you can see the outside. Everything looks good
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071746.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071746a.jpg
and here so you can see the length of the fuel tanks in relation to the fuel fill
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071748.jpg

Burn504
08-22-2007, 03:03 PM
here is a pic of that area from a bit farther away. I hope you can see where it is leaking. In the bottom left corner when facing the tank. You can see it leaking. Its a steady drip drip drip
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071747a.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071749.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071749a.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/burn504/0822071750.jpg

Burn504
08-22-2007, 03:08 PM
Take a pic of the area from a little farther away. If I am seeing your pic right, That is the corner of the transom where the transom meets the side of the boat, and those bolts are the swim step bolts through the transom, right? If so, then is the spot with the old carpet glue is actually the fuel tank, and not the side of the boat?
Regardless, if that is fuel leaking out, then it must be coming from the tank, and yes the tank must be removed and replaced. No one in their right mind will attempt to repair a fiberglass fuel tank.
The whole side of the tank was covered in carpet. I noticed it was wet so i started pulling it back till it was dry and cut out the fuel soaked carpet. So the orange shit is glue. That whole sidewall is supposely fuel tank... In the last few pics you can see a space in the top corner. So the tank and the transom are molded in together but not completely sealed.

DUCKY
08-22-2007, 05:51 PM
Okay, that's what I was thinking, but needed the "bigger picture".
You definitely need to remove those tanks and replace them.
The tanks are made on the bench and then "tabbed" to the boat at each end and along the bottom. If you run a body saw or die grinder real shallow along the bottom of the boat, and cut the tabs at each end, they should come right out. When you get your new ones, install some wood bulkheads each each end of the tank so you can bolt in the new tanks. I would suggest having your new ones made so you can move them away from the transom at least a few inches if not 12, even if it costs you some capacity.
On a side note, the transom area where the swim step bolts come through looks pretty bad. Granted the transom in a jet isn't all that critical (you don't even have one in the center), you need to at least seal it all up and make some backing plates for the step bolts. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions or need some guidance....
PS, nice shot of your boat in front of "The Thing". We always stop at that DQ on the way to and from Marble Falls.....

Burn504
08-22-2007, 07:19 PM
so just measure and have some new ones made? stainless or aluminium?
When i put the new ones in do i have to glass them in or only if they are fiberglass?(which i wont do again)
is this a result of the ethanol in gasoline or just stress?
why should i leave 12" in front of the transom?
Thanks for your help...too bad your not closer:D

DUCKY
08-23-2007, 12:46 PM
I would have the new ones made out of aluminum. Stainless is great if you can afford it, but it's spendy. You will want to get with a fuel tank manufacturer in your area for the job and possibly a fiberglass shop if you don't want to deal with cutting out the old tanks and putting in the new bulkheads.I can get you a number for a tank manufacturer here if you need it. I don't like tanks that are glassed in, that's why I said to glass in some bulkheads to mount the new ones on then bolt them in. The idea about moving the mounting point forward has several purposes. First, being glassed to the transom, side and the bottom of the boat could be part of the reason you have a leak. Your tank is rigidly mounted to three different axis'. Second, if you are going to glass in bulkheads to mount the new ones, you need to leave yourself room to work on the bulkheads, and the access the bolts, hoses, etc...
If you don't have a tank guy that will take your measurements for you, you will probably need to make a cardboard template of the mounting area and send it to the tank guy. Let me know if you need anything.

Burn504
08-23-2007, 01:24 PM
so the reason for leaving a good 12" before the transom is to leave room to work on the bulkhead? or in case of collision?
and your guess is because of the way the fiberglass tanks were mounted lead to a stress crack over time that is now leaking?

Burn504
08-23-2007, 01:31 PM
how much should i be expecting to pay for someone to cut out these tanks, install bulkheads to mount to?
how much do custom aluminium tanks cost?
Damn boats...

DUCKY
08-24-2007, 09:42 AM
so the reason for leaving a good 12" before the transom is to leave room to work on the bulkhead? or in case of collision?
and your guess is because of the way the fiberglass tanks were mounted lead to a stress crack over time that is now leaking?
To leave room to work, and also to mount your new tanks on only one stress axis. I didn't even consider the collision aspect, but it's not a bad concept. It is my opinion that the way your tanks were mounted probably led to their demise, although fiberglass tanks just suck anyways.
I don't know for sure, but I would guess that a pair of new aluminum tanks will cost you around $600. Getting the old ones out, making the new bulkheads and installing them should take a competent glass guy about 4 hrs (avg shop rate $75/hr) if he didn't have to pull out the interior or do anything strange.
Add a little more to that if you wanted the shop to actually install your new tanks so they were ready to use (fill/vent hoses,fuel lines, hardware, etc...)
BOAT= Break out another thousand......

Burn504
08-24-2007, 12:05 PM
To leave room to work, and also to mount your new tanks on only one stress axis. I didn't even consider the collision aspect, but it's not a bad concept. It is my opinion that the way your tanks were mounted probably led to their demise, although fiberglass tanks just suck anyways.
I don't know for sure, but I would guess that a pair of new aluminum tanks will cost you around $600. Getting the old ones out, making the new bulkheads and installing them should take a competent glass guy about 4 hrs (avg shop rate $75/hr) if he didn't have to pull out the interior or do anything strange.
Add a little more to that if you wanted the shop to actually install your new tanks so they were ready to use (fill/vent hoses,fuel lines, hardware, etc...)
BOAT= Break out another thousand......
The local place i contacted that seemed legit said they wanted to see if there was any standard sized tanks that could fit in there to keep the price down.
Im assuming because of the size and where the fuel fills are located in relation to the tank they will have to be custom. I have an appointment for tuesday to take my boat down there. This is such a bummer in the middle of the summer.
the tanks may be able to be removed without removing the rear seats but i doubt it. And ive never removed the rear seats before....

Burn504
09-17-2007, 05:50 PM
so after numerous quotes that were ridiculous and shops saying things like they were "afraid it would blow up if they cut them out".
I mean cmon.. drain the fuel... fill/flush with water and start cutting.
I decided to do the work myself like everything else in my life.
I purchased two of these
http://www.overtons.com/assets/images/products/large/39533_L1.jpg
Moeller 19 Gallon Marine Fuel Tank, 10.25"W, 47"L, 10.19"D
along with two gauges because the tanks are already wired.(my tanks right now dont have gauges) http://www.overtons.com/assets/images/products/large/34801_L1.jpg
and some strap tie down kits.
Do i need to still put rubber down between the tank and the hull? I Know i was told this when i was going to do aluminium tanks.

Burn504
09-18-2007, 07:21 PM
spent the entire day pretty much cutting out the leaky tank. It was molded in very weel across the bottom and tabbed in on each side. Tomorrow i will do the other side along with smoothing out the side i did today with the orbital sander.
I am going to put down a 1/8" rubber sheet for shock absorbtion and i think it will help from corrosion between the hull and tanks.
I am assuming after i clean up the edges and smooth it out that I need to fill a few gaps/chunks to make sure everything is sealed.
Do i lay fiberglass? or just resin?
i need advice on that part too. Nothing I need to glass or patch is structural just comsemtic.
Thanks

DUCKY
09-19-2007, 08:25 AM
Fiberglass will never stick to those plastic tanks. I would suggest making yourself some "shelves" to mount the tanks on from plywood, and then just using the nylon webbing type tank straps. Once you fit the shelves to the boat, coat them with resin, and then tab them to the boat. Make sure that you leave at least a 1/4" gap in between your wood work and the hull to prevent problems down the road. The rubber underneath the tanks is not a bad idea, but some good 40 oz carpet will work fine also. If this is all "clear as mud" let me know and I'll try to draw you a picture or something.....

Burn504
09-19-2007, 04:51 PM
thanks for the response. Ill update with pics i took a bit later. They are on the camera.
my plan was not to fiberglass to the tank but to lay either fiberglass or resin down to level out the surface where the tanks will sit and to fiberglass in some "blocks" to mount the straps to.
Let me know how i should do that... thanks

GAWnCA
09-19-2007, 05:04 PM
Fiberglass will never stick to those plastic tanks. I would suggest making yourself some "shelves" to mount the tanks on from plywood, and then just using the nylon webbing type tank straps. Once you fit the shelves to the boat, coat them with resin, and then tab them to the boat. Make sure that you leave at least a 1/4" gap in between your wood work and the hull to prevent problems down the road. The rubber underneath the tanks is not a bad idea, but some good 40 oz carpet will work fine also. If this is all "clear as mud" let me know and I'll try to draw you a picture or something.....
I think this is a good idea for my metal tanks. The right side is completely loose and only the fuel fill is holding it in place and the fuel fill on the other side needs to be replaced due to leakage. So, this winter I'll be pulling them out and doing a good mount job for them. Then I'll re-do the fuel lines as well.
I like the idea of a shelf and a strap to hold the tanks in place. Need to put a shelf in for a second battery as well. May as well do it all at the same time I do the bilge. Thanks! Greg

Xlration Marine
09-24-2007, 03:01 PM
Fiber glass will nit stick to aluminum eather. But I've glassed all of mine in and never had an issue. Two (2) strips of mat and some 18 oz bi-directional, about 10"wide. The length will be what it takes to run from the side of the hull, up to the deck. And then down to the floor, with about 8" of coverage on the floor. Put the tanks on some scrap carpet to keep it from rubbing on the glass and in the back as well. Run the glass behind it as much as you can and then under it to form more of a cradle. The glass won't stick to it but if done right the tank will not move at all.

Burn504
10-03-2007, 03:11 PM
Fiber glass will nit stick to aluminum eather. But I've glassed all of mine in and never had an issue. Two (2) strips of mat and some 18 oz bi-directional, about 10"wide. The length will be what it takes to run from the side of the hull, up to the deck. And then down to the floor, with about 8" of coverage on the floor. Put the tanks on some scrap carpet to keep it from rubbing on the glass and in the back as well. Run the glass behind it as much as you can and then under it to form more of a cradle. The glass won't stick to it but if done right the tank will not move at all.
as i said before i dont plan on glassing in the tanks... just glassing in some bulkheads to mount to.
but there has been a change of plans. The tanks i purchased fit barely and where they fit the fuel fill is at the wrong angle. I am just having some aluminum cylindrical tanks done. Do it right the first time...