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Riptide01
07-26-2002, 05:47 AM
Why do so many people bitch about the laws trying to be imposed on performance boating?
But so few are stepping up to do anything to prevent them.

spectratoad
07-26-2002, 07:13 AM
I was wondering that myself. I posted a note here about the National Park Service looking for public input, yeah right, on the plan to restrict the number of boats on Mead & Mojave and outright banning them in certain spots. There have been zero responses. Oh well, I will try to do my :confused: part. It is in the JUST JETS area.
[ July 26, 2002, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: spectratoad ]

Riptide01
07-26-2002, 08:05 PM
They are trying to do that up here also.
They also are trying to limit the size of boats on certain lakes.
Even one lake that they are trying to band ANY boat with above water exhaust. Which would include v-drives, Jets and most sterndrives.
There is even a guy that lives on a island at the lake that has a amphicar. That would also be illegal.

Boatcop
07-27-2002, 01:44 PM
The best way to stop laws that are arbitrary is to show that there isn't a need for them. Some legislative bodies just pass laws for the sake of passing laws.
News laws should reflect an actual need, and should be carefully considered before being brought forward. Examples:
Accident statistics over the years found the following:
1. In the early days of boating many people were falling overboard and drowning. Solution - PFD laws. The drowning rate dropped.
2. Boats were also blowing up, catching fire and people got burned and killed. Solution - Backfire flame arrestors, ventilation, fire extinguishers, etc. Fewer boats burning, less people killed.
3. Drunk and reckless boaters running over people. Laws were passed creating severe penalties for drunk and reckless boaters.
4. PWCs jumping wakes, spraying other boats and people, causing damage, injuries and fatalities. Laws passed to prevent such actions.
If there is no positive influence from a proposed law, there should be no need for it. It's up to us to let the lawmakers know that the law isn't necessary.
As far as Mead, Mohave and Powell are concerned, how many out there have actually read the proposals? Or are you just hearing snips and soundbyies?
The leading proposal would close off less than 2% of the lake area to boating. There are plans to actually increase ammenities and access to other portions of the lakes, and to increase the amount of boats that can be managed within the parks. The purpose of the plans are to satisfy the environmental crowd AND the recreational boating public, by striking a balance between the need to protect the resources entrusted to us, and allow maximum use by the boating and non-boating public.
Here is the transcript of the proposals being considered for Lake Mead Recreational area. Before spreading bad information and whining about them taking away your right to boat freely. Read it, and find out what is actually being proposed. I think you'll find that the restrictions being considered aren't going to impact your boating experience all that much, if at all.
Lake Mead Management Draft (http://www.nps.gov/lame/lmpdraft/exec-sum1.htm)
[ July 27, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Boatcop ]

twistedpair
07-27-2002, 04:20 PM
You want to get really pissed off? Check this site out. http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/bwnhome.html
These are the pencildicks responsible for, and very proud of this kind of B.S.

sandblasted
07-27-2002, 07:50 PM
Riptide01:
Why do so many people bitch about the laws trying to be imposed on performance boating?
But so few are stepping up to do anything to prevent them.Riptide...I rode dirtbikes for years and gave money freely to organizations that tried to protect my right to ride offroad....I supported DirtBike magazine (GO SuperHunky)when they took on the wacky environmentalists and tried to save the Barstow to Vegas ride....of course we lost, why?
Because the wacky enviro movement is supported by people with very large bank accounts....Every time I see a Ted Danson or a Woody Harrelson on tv I want to puke. These people would never be caught dead on a dirt bike and you can bet they would never take the time to go for a ride in a Hot Boat...Simply put, they have an agenda that is counterproductive to everything we enjoy....
We have to face some facts, if you enjoy any type of hobby that has the word "horsepower" in it you are facing an uphill battle against the pandering politicians and an un-informed public that could care less....
My suggestion, support any and every organization that opposes these liberal assholes...whether it's a dirtbike org, a mountain bike org or a ***boat organization...

Charley
07-29-2002, 07:32 AM
twistedpair:
You want to get really pissed off? Check this site out. http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/bwnhome.html
These are the pencildicks responsible for, and very proud of this kind of B.S.I'm NOT on thier side, I'm a boater.... but i was AMAZED by this statistic found on that website:
The California Air Resources Board found that a seven-hour ride on a personal watercraft (PWC) powered by a conventional two-stroke engine produces the same amount of smog-forming emissions as over 100,000 miles driven in a modern passenger car. (4.)
you have to admit thats amazing

BlownCole
07-29-2002, 07:39 AM
twistedpair:
You want to get really pissed off? Check this site out. http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/bwnhome.html
These are the pencildicks responsible for, and very proud of this kind of B.S.Grrr :mad:

Boatcop
07-29-2002, 07:55 AM
I don't agree with what the Blue Water Network and other environmentalist whacko organizations are all about, but they do have SOME good points.
For example, a carburated 2 stroke, outboard or PWC, only burns about 75% of the fuel/oil mixture, putting 25% of it back into the water. Think about this: For a OB with a 40 gallon tank, it's the same as if you took a 10 gallon jug of fuel mix and poured it straight into the River.
Now multiply that by the number of outboards and PWCs on the Lake.
That's the reason the Jet Ski World Championships were stopped on Mission Bay, and are being opposed on Havasu.

spectratoad
07-29-2002, 12:22 PM
Thanks Boatcop for finding that. I was reading it and it says there are only 4 million people that the organization represents. Hard to understand how so few people can steer the direction of a country. :mad:

spectratoad
07-29-2002, 12:24 PM
Besides, what wrong with a jetski or two?? :D
http://www.beached1.homestead.com/files/Ski_Butts.jpg

Havasu_Dreamin
07-30-2002, 07:57 PM
spectratoad:
Thanks Boatcop for finding that. I was reading it and it says there are only 4 million people that the organization represents. Hard to understand how so few people can steer the direction of a country. :mad: Keep in mind we have a very uninformed voting populace. People really don't know the issues when they vote. Also, people will join an organization becasue they agree with this one proposal/stance they have on an issue without researching what else the organization stands for.
For example, with the Blue Water Network a-holes, they do make some valid points re: the pollution from PWC's. We all want clean water right? Well, they present the idea to the general public as a call to keep our waters clean and everyone thinks that is a great idea. What John Q Public does not realize is that they, the Blue Water Network and other enviro-whackos, want to do is go to extremes by just banning everything. And that really is not the best solution. Sure, people have a right to clean water but boaters also have a right to use the lakes and rivers. Granted that right of use is WAY down on the list.
A compromise needs to be reached and we as boaters won't have any say if we don't stand up and say "You know what, I vote and my opinion counts."
Also, when posting notes about the National Park Service announcements and such related to lake/river usage, post it in the Hot Boat Hot Spots as more people will see it there than in the Just Jets area. I for one don't really frequent the jet area since I don't own a jet.

spectratoad
07-30-2002, 08:03 PM
HD I will post there next time. I wasn't sure where the most frequent site visited is. You are very correct about an uninformed public. I myself try to stay informed but unfortunately I as well as probably most other people have to rely on the media. I listen to talk radio alot which I think is about the most across the board info. We need to somehow get the parties to come together and do what is in the best interest of everyone and get the whole story out. I hate pollution and development as much as alot of treehuggers but I also know we can use it and keep this place in working order. Just my .02 :cool:

Kindsvater Flat
07-30-2002, 08:27 PM
Idiots here bought 300 acres of farmable land that WAS in production. UN-leveled it and turned it into garter snake habitat. Next things you know is that they will want to save the mosquitos.

PickleFork2Be
08-04-2002, 03:48 AM
ok, I know I am getting to this a bit late, but just wanted to throw in my .02. I know 2 strokes do leave behind quite a bit of their fuel in the water and can see why they would target these PWC's, though I still don't like it. However, what about the 4 stroke PWC owners? They seem to be getting screwed in the deal. The 4 strokes burn better than a lot of boats on the lakes today. These were made (from what I understand anyway) for the reason that they burn cleaner and to help prevent banning. Just my thoughts.
PF2B

Boatcop
08-04-2002, 08:45 AM
They've targeted PWCs in general becaues of their size, and the way they are usually operated.
People with boats can't get into the backwaters and shallow coves, either due to draft or boat size. These areas are where the majority of marine wildlife (read fish) deposit their eggs, and provide cover for the fry (baby fish) to keep them from predators and bigger fish.
PWCs can get just about anywhere, and mostly do it at full throttle. These actions disturb those nesting ground which makes the reproductive survival rate of native fish much lower. Fish surveys done on the Colorado River, and all other the US, have shown the numbers of Native and Sport fish steadily declining since the introduction and proliferation of PWCs.
Even on Havasu and up in the Gorge, there are numerous coves which are closed to boats, or made "No Wake" zones. This is to protect those nesting grounds.
"Who cares?" You ask? Well, the fisherman, and the sport fishing industry. We have to realize that Hot Boaters aren't the only ones entitled to use our waterways. Hot Boating is only a portion of recreational water use. We have to ensure that those waterways are open and available for anyone and anything that wants to use them.
BTW, we see an equal percentge of PWCs and "Hot Boats" screaming through the no wake zones or closed areas. It's not so much a vessel issue, than it is an operator issue.

PickleFork2Be
08-04-2002, 09:10 AM
Thank you for the info BoatCop. I agree that we should be allowed to opperate any vessle, PWC or boat, on the lake. It's just those idiots that tend to muck it all up for everyone. It's too bad people can't follow instuctions so simple as "5 MPH", "No Wake" and other signs trying to keep people out of certain areas.
PF2B (Getting closer to that picklefork :D )

Jordy
08-04-2002, 12:45 PM
From the webpage of the Bluewater Network:
"The world's leading scientists recently concluded that the concentration of the key greenhouse gases that cause global warming is higher today than during the past 420,000 years. In the case of carbon dioxide, it is likely that today's atmospheric concentration is higher than any time during the past 20 million years."
You have to question any organization that makes claims of conclusions dating back 420,000 years. Last time I checked, they really didn't start measuring any of these levels until well in to the 1900's, like the 1960's and later. These are the kind of people that strike fear in the uninformed and get laws pushed though. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Jordan

spectratoad
08-04-2002, 01:15 PM
There was am article in the paper here this morning that beginning Sept. 15 there will be no more PWC's allowed on Mead, Mojave and five other lakes. The Dept. of Woldlife expects this to be temporary but this could be just like taxes. Have you ever seen them repeal a tax. :mad:

Boatcop
08-04-2002, 05:12 PM
The ban that's effective September 15th is just until the NPS has a management plan in effect.
The plans will be approved later this year, or early next year, well ahead of the 2003 boating season.

spectratoad
08-04-2002, 06:05 PM
Yeah, that is what the article said. At least it seems like the Park Service is upfront about everything.

shockwavebd
08-04-2002, 06:30 PM
Charley:
twistedpair:
You want to get really pissed off? Check this site out. http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/bwnhome.html
These are the pencildicks responsible for, and very proud of this kind of B.S.I'm NOT on thier side, I'm a boater.... but i was AMAZED by this statistic found on that website:
The California Air Resources Board found that a seven-hour ride on a personal watercraft (PWC) powered by a conventional two-stroke engine produces the same amount of smog-forming emissions as over 100,000 miles driven in a modern passenger car. (4.)
you have to admit thats amazingTHEY SUCK AND BLOW