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View Full Version : Buying a used boat & have a couple of quick stereo questions...



One Particular Harbor
03-29-2004, 10:44 AM
I am in the process of buying a new (used) boat and was hoping you (all) could help with a couple of stereo-related questions:
1. The boat has Alpine R series 6.5" speakers and some of the grills are dented. Is there an easy way to order replacement grills (I know, I am a bit anal, but it bothers me)?
2. Does anyone have experience with the billet aluminum speaker covers? They're a bit expensive, but they would seem to me to be more resistant to denting. Any downside to these covers? And, does anyone know a good local source?
3. The boat currently has two "gel" batteries. Do I need to maintain these any differently from the standard batteries (sorry, novice question). And, what advantages do these type of batteries offer?
4. Finally, I have read several threads about isolating some additional batteries (6 volt?) to drive the stereo. Is this a good approach and how difficult (expensive) is it to get a good stereo shop to do this?
Thanks, in advance, for your help.

rivercrazy
03-29-2004, 10:52 AM
1. You should be able to order replacement grills directly from Alpine. Check out their website or ask ROZ here on the boards!
2. They look cool for sure! But I'm not convenced they provide better protection unless there is metal mesh installed inside the billet covers. Depending on the design, they may block some of the tweeters. Tweeters are very directional. Unobstruction is an important factor.
3. Are those Optima's? If so they are AGM batteries (Absorbed Glass Mat). Just keep them topped off with an automatic battery charger that charges at up to 12 amps.
4. That is one way to go. But those 6 Volts are very heavy. They also gas when charged so if you go that way, you need to make sure you will only charge in an open air environment. You will also need to have access to charging independant from the boats alternator. I stuck with 12V's and am more than happy with my 3 Optima Battery setup.

Mr. Naudio
03-29-2004, 03:28 PM
Only my opinion but the cost of billet skin burners,and some of them will give a nice gouge if rubbed wrong with arm,leg,foot,ect.
Would be better spent on a speaker upgrade.
No doubt some people love having the name of a detail shop plasterd all over their boats.
Some dont like the highs that come out of the prob, blocked tweeter.
As for the golf cart batts.
Lots of water hazards on the lake,not to mention golf carts will
run fine at below 10 volts. A stereo prob,not.
Woops what can i say the wifes not home yet and its Monday needed to vent.
Still my opinion.

ROZ
03-29-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Naudio
Only my opinion but the cost of billet skin burners,and some of them will give a nice gouge if rubbed wrong with arm,leg,foot,ect.
Would be better spent on a speaker upgrade.
No doubt some people love having the name of a detail shop plasterd all over their boats.
Some dont like the highs that come out of the prob, blocked tweeter.
I'm with ya on the sound out of some the funky grill designs. I think HD&Boatrider had a good idea with recessing the tewwter into the face of the grill.... Too bad ya can't do that with all of them...
Good point about the potential of accidents with them. Never thought of that...
Originally posted by Mr. Naudio
As for the golf cart batts.
Lots of water hazards on the lake,not to mention golf carts will
run fine at below 10 volts. A stereo prob,not.
The idea is that it takes quite a long time for the batteries to go from 13.3 volts(77charger's checked his at full charge) to below 10.5 volts....

Mr. Naudio
03-29-2004, 04:14 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr. Naudio
As for the golf cart batts.
Lots of water hazards on the lake,not to mention golf carts will
run fine at below 10 volts. A stereo prob,not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROZ:
The idea is that it takes quite a long time for the batteries to go from 13.3 volts(77charger's checked his at full charge) to below 10.5 volts....
Mr. Naudio:
Honest question ,
is it at least twice as long or more to account for the xtra weight (takes two for 12 volts)

ROZ
03-29-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Naudio
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr. Naudio
As for the golf cart batts.
Lots of water hazards on the lake,not to mention golf carts will
run fine at below 10 volts. A stereo prob,not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ROZ:
The idea is that it takes quite a long time for the batteries to go from 13.3 volts(77charger's checked his at full charge) to below 10.5 volts....
Mr. Naudio:
Honest question ,
is it at least twice as long or more to account for the xtra weight (takes two for 12 volts)
Absolutely. Ask Boat Floatin' ... I think he gets 4 hours of nonstop music at party level out of a system that killed 3 12's in less than an hour....
The bummer is that you have to charge them...No biggie if you pull the boat out anyways....

Havasu Hangin'
03-29-2004, 06:01 PM
There seems to be a misconception on this board about batteries in series being a magic bullet. Both have their advantages and disadvantages for particular applications.
Here's (http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004719;p=0) some (http://www.niagara.com/~bman/amphour.html) reading on series vs. parallel.
Essentially:
Series- good for golf carts
Parallel- good for audio
Don't get me started on putting golf cart batteries in boats...next you guys will be putting Big Berthas in your boats "because they drive farther"...

ROZ
03-29-2004, 06:43 PM
Agree'd, for performance one wants the least path of resistance... That's why they drain so damn fast :D
** I never disagree'd, but if it's playtime they want.......
P.S. wouldn't big Bertha slow your boat down?

77charger
03-29-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Don't get me started on putting golf cart batteries in boats...next you guys will be putting Big Berthas in your boats "because they drive farther"... :D
I think i got you figured out i have three stikes againt you
I have an eliminator -no checkers though:D
Square subs
going the 6 volt route.
I knew it was something:D

Havasu Hangin'
03-29-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
** I never disagree'd, but if it's playtime they want.......
I've never been able to figure you guys out...
Why spend thousands of dollars on your stereo, only to limit it by buying inexpensive batteies and running them in the worst configuration for performance?
Why not buy some killer group 31's and run them in parallel?
Did you guys get hit by one too many golf carts visiting granma at seizureworld?

ROZ
03-29-2004, 07:34 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd run 2 8D batteries or 4 SVR's( I have a thing with my amps seeing 14.? at some point) , but for someone who really needs the batteries to last over long weekends without the ability to charge, then something like a 6volt or 12volts with a charger and power supply would work for them...
Do you think you'd notice the difference between identical stereo systems in identical boats with one having 2 12v's vs 2 6v's other than playtime? Maybe....
I say fuse the 2 1/0's from 6 bussed SVR's with 300amp fuses at both ends and blare the 2 10001's w/ 8ga wire on the solo 18" and the 2 JL4504's w/ 12ga on Z6's until the cap seperates from the hull :D
EDIT: Might need a higher output alternator in there somewhere...lol
;)

Havasu Hangin'
03-29-2004, 07:54 PM
The thing that is funny to me is how people seem to think that comparing 2 sets of similar batteries...
...two 6 volt in series or two 12 volt in parallel...
...somehow the series batteries will last longer because they store energy better. They don't...they just release it slower.
Can't you do the same thing with a volume knob?

77charger
03-29-2004, 09:18 PM
well hh how do you explain my 6vlt batts out lasting 2 12vs (paralled) on my toybox.Everyone we camp with who have 2 12vlts have to charger them before the night time so that their heater can run all night then do again in the mornin.While i sleep warm,dont have to hear my gen for hours,and wake up and have alot of power left?2 goup 27s will have at best 230 amp hours total while most golf cart batts will have 225 on avg.Your optimas 60
We'll see this summer whos batt dies first yors or mine:D :D
I think i might add a checkers strip to my batteries too:) :)

rivercrazy
03-29-2004, 09:33 PM
With only one amp, any battery configuration is gonna last you TOO long Robert. Isn't it about time to got bit by the upgrade bug? Especially with the Solo your runnin! LOL! :D :D

Havasu Hangin'
03-29-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
well hh how do you explain my 6vlt batts out lasting 2 12vs (paralled) on my toybox.
Are the plate sizes the same? Apples to apples?
Originally posted by 77charger
Everyone we camp with who have 2 12vlts have to charger them before the night time so that their heater can run all night then do again in the mornin.While i sleep warm,dont have to hear my gen for hours,and wake up and have alot of power left?
Once again...that setup will work fine for what you are using it for...but not audio.
77discharger...keep believing that you have the trick setup. After all, you also have an Eliminator and square subs...so those 6 volts fit right in!

ROZ
03-29-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Can't you do the same thing with a volume knob?
Just think how long you can play the stereo at low volume with 2 6v batteries ....

Havasu Hangin'
03-30-2004, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by ROZ
Just think how long you can play the stereo at low volume with 2 6v batteries ....
Or how long that stereo will play with 23 massive watts of Rockwood power...

hd&boatrider
03-30-2004, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by One Particular Harbor
I am in the process of buying a new (used) boat and was hoping you (all) could help with a couple of stereo-related questions:
1. The boat has Alpine R series 6.5" speakers and some of the grills are dented. Is there an easy way to order replacement grills (I know, I am a bit anal, but it bothers me)?
2. Does anyone have experience with the billet aluminum speaker covers? They're a bit expensive, but they would seem to me to be more resistant to denting. Any downside to these covers? And, does anyone know a good local source?
3. The boat currently has two "gel" batteries. Do I need to maintain these any differently from the standard batteries (sorry, novice question). And, what advantages do these type of batteries offer?
4. Finally, I have read several threads about isolating some additional batteries (6 volt?) to drive the stereo. Is this a good approach and how difficult (expensive) is it to get a good stereo shop to do this?
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
I know what you mean about the grills. I recently went ahead and spent the money to add Rons Custom Grills on my boat. While the sub grills got in the way when the sub's pumped hard Ron is fixing that up with a deeper grill. He is going to exchange them for me and the problem will be solved. I ran (8) 6.5' component speakers which means I have detached tweeters. We cut the speaker grill and dropped in the tweeters. It looks great. fits tight and I have no distortion. While they are expensive the billet grills will solve the problem with grills getting mangled and falling off. I did it primarily for that reason as I was sick of my JL grills coming off during boating season. The other reason is because they look good :). Here is a link to get in touch with Ron. He will give you a quote and make sure you are taken care of. Tell him Tom sent you:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42000&highlight=Rons

ROZ
03-30-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Or how long that stereo will play with 23 massive watts of Rockwood power...
Damn, you're thinking High end....
Atleast I'm going with them MB Quartzite speakers...

ROZ
03-30-2004, 12:26 PM
If you choose not to go with billet grills and just want replacement parts for your Alpine, contact Pacific Coast Parts. PCP (west) and Herman's Electronics (east) are the only way to get Alpine Parts...
Pacific Coast Parts PH: 310-515-0207 or 800-421-5080
www.pacparts.com
They're in LA somewhere...

BoatFloating
04-04-2004, 08:38 AM
There goes HH 6V hating again. It's like what they teach you in school there is book smarts (HH) and street smarts (BF). All I know is I had 2 Optima's only for stereo and 2 group 30 Delco's for boat. I'd be lucky to get 1 1/2 out of them at party level. Then went to 6V and go all day and into the night like Viagra:) So I can only speak from experiance where HH has only read about it :p

Havasu Hangin'
04-04-2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
All I know is I had 2 Optima's only for stereo and 2 group 30 Delco's for boat. I'd be lucky to get 1 1/2 out of them at party level.
Since you are so cheap, perhaps you could have bought a $5 resistor, and wired it in-line and accomplished the same thing?
Originally posted by BoatFloating
So I can only speak from experiance where HH has only read about it :p
Actually, I do have some experience with running battery arrays in series (in the "pre-capacitor days). I learned enough to know that audio does not like resistance.
Ever wonder why the big audo-specialized batteries today (like Stinger) have low resistance, and don't run in series?
Isn't that the opposite of your golf cart batteries?
Here BF...read all about it.

BoatFloating
04-04-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Since you are so cheap, perhaps you could have bought a $5 resistor, and wired it in-line and accomplished the same thing?
You are right I'm a cheap bastard. I need the $5 for Red Bull.
Actually, I do have some experience with running battery arrays in series (in the "pre-capacitor days). I learned enough to know that audio does not like resistance.
Did you say pre-historic??? . Come on HH join the 90's. The 6V work just fine and play longer period.
I still like you even though your wrong;)

Havasu Hangin'
04-04-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
Did you say pre-historic??? . Come on HH join the 90's.
You guys and your lead-acid technology. Come on man...join the 80's.
I guess the benefit of 6 volts are that it still has some reserve left on the 18th tee.
Originally posted by BoatFloating
I still like you even though your wrong...
And I still like you even if you won't admit you're wrong.

ROZ
04-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
I still like you even though your wrong;)
HH is correct...
Building a loud stereo in a car you have to move both air(spl) and current... Since you're only working with 12-14 volts the only way you're going to get the most out of your system is to get a lot of amps delivered in the quickest way possible at maximum voltage.
These that choose the 6volt route are more interested in playtime than getting the absolute max out of their system...
So I guess your both right... Now one of you give me an everlasting Gobbstopper

BoatFloating
04-04-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
HH is correct... and wrong
Building a loud stereo in a car you have to move both air(spl) and current... Since you're only working with 12-14 volts the only way you're going to get the most out of your system is to get a lot of amps delivered in the quickest way possible at maximum voltage.
These that choose the 6volt route are more interested in playtime than getting the absolute max out of their system...
So I guess your both right... Now one of you give me an everlasting Gobbstopper
Last time I check HH I'm in a boat that doesn't charge the batteries that much. So I chose the the playtime over the max power. Hey Roz how about a big Jaw breaker the size of a baseball, those last longer.

Havasu Hangin'
04-04-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
Last time I check HH I'm in a boat that doesn't charge the batteries that much.
When Froggy first suggested that "Big 5" setup...I told him to go with mbrown2's setup...
...onboard generator w/audio batteries...which is lighter, same space, no acid, and holds a charge forever. He said he didn't have the money for it. What's your excuse?
All I gotta say to you fools with the 6 volts is...
FORE!

BoatFloating
04-04-2004, 04:22 PM
On the next boat I will be going with the generator/charger setup. So your half right....
Keep in mind there Tiger Woods 6V are also in motorhomes and other things that need a long rung time. So tell me why 2-12V can't hang with my 2 6V in my motor home. Huh!

riverbound
04-04-2004, 04:30 PM
What about running a bunch of "D" batteries they are only 1.5 volts but I could run them in sets of 8 mt mag lites last a long time. if i put enough it should work right?:D

Havasu Hangin'
04-04-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by BoatFloating
Keep in mind there Tiger Woods 6V are also in motorhomes and other things that need a long rung time. So tell me why 2-12V can't hang with my 2 6V in my motor home. Huh!
Hey...for yer mobile...er...motorhome, the series trick will work fine...just like 77discharger cries about.
In series, the resistance is cumulative, so the two 12 volt in parallel will have less resistance than two 6 volts in series (all things being equal). That's why parallel batteries will release their energy more freely- which is better for audio and it's wacky current draw.
Originally posted by riverbound
What about running a bunch of "D" batteries they are only 1.5 volts but I could run them in sets of 8 mt mag lites last a long time. if i put enough it should work right?:D
Don't give him any ideas...
Hey BF...with that ghetto golf cart setup...I got a new name for you:
"GhettoFloating"

77charger
04-04-2004, 06:50 PM
OLE HH aint hip to people having longer radio time then him.That is why he is anti 6 volt.BTW HH i just got back from glamis my 6volts did another fine job:D :D Lasted all weekend runing heater,inverter,etc.

One Particular Harbor
04-29-2004, 05:25 PM
Just testing my profile and avatar...

Tom Brown
04-29-2004, 08:32 PM
6v versus 12v? All of the systems you're talking about end up delivering 12 volts. A battery's ability to source power comes down to choice and volume of materials in the reactive cell, as well as the design of the cells. Voltage just comes down to how many cells are linked together in series.
If I were designing a system that could play for long periods of time on battery power, I would use a single 12 volt battery (like an Optima) to power all accessories except power amplifiers. For the amps, I would look at powering them with three 6 volt batteries in series. Any decent amp will live happily at 18 volts and will play until that 18 volt system drops down to around 10 volts. That's a ton more headroom than you will have in a 12 volt system that will stop playing at 10 volts.
Amps need to be able to run at 14.5 volts since a lot of charging systems run at that and if you look at the specs, a lot of amps are rated when running well above 14.5 volts anyway. 18 volts isn't pushing them much beyond their comfort zone, although they will source more power so it will be easier to overrun their ability to dissipate heat.

ROZ
04-30-2004, 09:08 AM
1stepcloser ran his amps a 18 volts once, once. :D

Tom Brown
04-30-2004, 09:29 AM
I've run quite a few amps at 20v on the bench but I haven't done that in the era of Class D amps. It might be best to make sure the amp is under warrantee before trying it. :D

Hustler
04-30-2004, 09:59 AM
Holy Crap!! I just read this thread and man does my head hurt now:eek: :D

1stepcloser
05-04-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
1stepcloser ran his amps a 18 volts once, once. :D
:D
And I can do it again, as I now know the secret.
However, while the amp can run at 18v, I wont suggest letting it do so for any length of time.....that trick is for the dB drag guys.
Batteries.....I have three Optimas, red ones at that. I have them on a single Perko switch, two in parallel that feed the amps, the other powers the boat including the head unit. This past Sunday, I played for approx. 4 hours of non stop music at high levels, and when it was time to go, no problemo, a quick look at the voltage gauge indicated 11.7v. :)
I left the Perko on "all".
Now, I understand this isnt the same as "all day and into the night", but it did represent, to me, that I should not have any trouble with batteries this summer.
It's really pretty simple, increasing resistance will slow current flow, thereby increasing the time it takes to empty the energy store.
P.S. I also run a pair of capacitors. :D I believe in them. :)