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LVjetboy
05-23-2004, 02:03 AM
Just upgraded and wondering...
How do you tune?
One amp drives the front components and subs. One amp the back subs. One amp the back components which also have separate (from the amp) cross-overs. Every amp has your basic level and cross-over control.
A reference CD? Can I ballpark/w Brittany Spears? J/k. I listen to a wide range...rap, rock and mellow...adjust to best compromise? Or tune for max stress and live with the rest? I have a pretty good ear but...one channel at a time? Forward vs rear? Do one thing first then the other? Controller max volume or some other setting? Subs vs mids?
No doubt some of this a black art and secrets of the trade but anything you guys can share? Keep it simple or be ready for more questions...
jer

Mr. Naudio
05-23-2004, 05:01 AM
If you are in Havasu
CarToyz will do it for free.

Havasu Hangin'
05-23-2004, 05:09 AM
Since there are no accoustics in boats, I tune mine to what I listen to most (I don't usually listen to test tones or Britanny at the river- only at home).
Depending on the subs and box, I usually cross them over between 60-100hz.
I try to keep the subs as loud as possible, without being annoying. That way, you will keep your really low frequencies from being boosted to all speakers, which can distort components.
If you can't do that, and the components still distort on low bass hits, I would cross them over at 100-150hz or so. For me, this is a last resort, as it usually takes some mid-bass punch out.
For the gains, I leave them all the way down, then turn the head unit to 95% (or so), and bring the gains up until you start to get some distortion- then back it down a hair. Do this one amp at a time (pull the remote wire on the others), so you only hear what you are adjusting.
No imaging in boats means that you want all the components as loud as possible (without distorting).
Now crank the whole system up on a couple different CDs, and listen for an quirks (distortion).
On the water, an equalizer and sub control are your best friends when listening to many different types of music. When you have a quality system, you really notice how much variance there is from CD to CD. If the gains and crossovers are set OK, fiddling with the frequencies on the EQ (or sub control) will get you the adjustment needed.
...but I'm an idiot, so please consider the source.

ROZ
05-23-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
I don't usually listen to test tones You mean I don't need to bring my Disc 2, fluke meeter, RTA, and dB meter to Op6? ;) :D

BoatFloating
05-23-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by ROZ
You mean I don't need to bring my Disc 2, fluke meeter, RTA, and dB meter to Op6? ;) :D
If my boat was done you'd have to bring that junk :D

LVjetboy
05-23-2004, 11:40 PM
"For the gains, I leave them all the way down, then turn the head unit to 95% (or so), and bring the gains up until you start to get some distortion- then back it down a hair."
HH, does this give more volume with better sound quality than say adjusting the head to 50% then bringing the amp gain up? Or is it more a safety measure to keep from blowing the speakers when you crank the volume?
jer

Havasu Hangin'
05-24-2004, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by LVjetboy
HH, does this give more volume with better sound quality than say adjusting the head to 50% then bringing the amp gain up? Or is it more a safety measure to keep from blowing the speakers when you crank the volume?
jer
Jer-
Yes and yes.
If you turn the volume on the head unit up only 50%, then you will have to increase the gains on the amp significantly more. When you do this, you will usually get more speaker noise, including hissing (and/or popping) at lower (or no) head unit volume. Try it and you'll see what I mean- don't forget to start your engine while doing this.
Also, to your point, the other reason is as a safety measure to keep distortion (and/or amp clipping) out of the equation. Distortion/clipping will kill your speakers rather quickly. You probably would never want to purposely induce distortion- leave that for kids in thier Hondas with just subs and tweeters.
In a car, when your are trying to build a soundstage (imaging), then you would adjust the gains a little differently, depending on which speakers were producing the image. In a boat, it doesn't matter.
The only exception would be if someone were using a low-level convertor. In that case, the higher volume on the head unit will mean maximum distortion out of that little amp in the head unit. Amplifying a distorted signal is not good, so the 50% rule would apply.

ROZ
05-24-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Jer-
Yes and yes.
If you turn the volume on the head unit up only 50%, then you will have to increase the gains on the amp significantly more. When you do this, you will usually get more speaker noise, including hissing (and/or popping) at lower (or no) head unit volume. Try it and you'll see what I mean- don't forget to start your engine while doing this.
Also, to your point, the other reason is as a safety measure to keep distortion (and/or amp clipping) out of the equation. Distortion/clipping will kill your speakers rather quickly. You probably would never want to purposely induce distortion- leave that for kids in thier Hondas with just subs and tweeters.
In a car, when your are trying to build a soundstage (imaging), then you would adjust the gains a little differently, depending on which speakers were producing the image. In a boat, it doesn't matter.
The only exception would be if someone were using a low-level convertor. In that case, the higher volume on the head unit will mean maximum distortion out of that little amp in the head unit. Amplifying a distorted signal is not good, so the 50% rule would apply.
You are the professor! This is why YOU are the stereo judge for OP6...:D
Jer.... Adding to HH's 1st paragraph... Gain on an amp not only boosts the signal from the headunit, but will amplify EVERYTHING that the RCA's pickup(noise) along the way....
If you're interested on some of the more technical ways of dialing in a system, like line level headunit clipping and gain setting to h/u output voltage, JL Audio has some tutorials..... Interesting reading nontheless....

Havasu Hangin'
05-24-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
You are the professor!
That's the "old school" way of adjustment...
...I'm sure you young punks have some new "bling bling" way of doing it today.

ROZ
05-24-2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
...I'm sure you young punks have some new "bling bling" way of doing it today.
Speaking of Punk... I think You're so boring by DK will be the track I play for the stereo contest.... Fitting for a bunch of peeps just sitting around drinking a beer or 2 watching the water current all day long.... ;)

LVjetboy
05-25-2004, 01:11 AM
I use all line out to drive my amps. So no low lever convertor. Also no stereo when I run the engine. Tough to hear with ear plugs. :D
I don't understand sound stage or imaging yet. I guess my question is, assuming no RCA noise from a running engine, is the head amp typically better than the separate amps at accurately reproducing the signal at high level?
jer

Havasu Hangin'
05-25-2004, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by LVjetboy
I guess my question is, assuming no RCA noise from a running engine, is the head amp typically better than the separate amps at accurately reproducing the signal at high level?
Not sure I understand the question...but I'll take a shot at it.
Out of the head unit, there should be little noise (to the human ear) with increasing volume from the low-level outputs.
However, amps will amplify (shocking, I know) any noise in the system many times over. Sometimes that noise is from the head unit (maybe the head unit doesn't have good noise filters), and sometimes it is from the amp itself (hissing, etc.).
Try a couple experiments- run a power jump wire to an amp, and turn up the gains all the way up (with the head unit off)...any hissing? Now try it with the head unit on, but at no volume. Try a couple actions, like inserting a CD, or turning the head unit off an on.
The bottom line is, if you have no intention of running the amplified signal past clipping and/or speaker distortion, then why mess with it?
Or in terms you might relate with...why put a 7,000 RPM cam in your engine if you'll never run it past 6,000 RPMs? All it does is hurt bottom-end performance, right?

LVjetboy
05-25-2004, 12:35 PM
I think I understand what you're saying about system noise.
I guess my question was if you had a clean signal from a CD (ideal world) would it be distorted more by amplifying it say 90% with the head unit amplifier and 10% with the separate amp compared to say 50% with the head unit and 50% with the separate? Assuming no external or line noise?
In other words, does the process of amplifying a clean signal in of itself distort the signal and if so does that distortion depend on amplifier quality and level of amplification? I guess I was thinking the head unit amplifier would be cheaper quality then the separate and running at 95% might introduce distortion? Does that make sense?
But then there's the other sources of noise you mentioned downstream of the head amp and that muddies the water. Must be thinking to much...need another brew. If I knew what the h*ll I was talking about it'd help. :D
jer

ROZ
05-25-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by LVjetboy
I think I understand what you're saying about system noise.
I guess my question was if you had a clean signal from a CD (ideal world)
test tone, but it's only as good as the source it was recorded from and with...
Originally posted by LVjetboy
would it be distorted more by amplifying it say 90% with the head unit amplifier and 10% with the separate amp compared to say 50% with the head unit and 50% with the separate? Assuming no external or line noise?
That really depends on the makeup of the heaunit and at what point the headunit clips...
Originally posted by LVjetboy
In other words, does the process of amplifying a clean signal in of itself distort the signal and if so does that distortion depend on amplifier quality and level of amplification? I guess I was thinking the head unit amplifier would be cheaper quality then the separate and running at 95% might introduce distortion? Does that make sense? Depending on the the component makeup, design, and process in which the signal is amplified noise can be introduced, but how much noise is the question. The solution to your deck amp distortion is to run a deck that is a preamp. Maybe a 7909 if you could find one on ebay... Made in 1989 - 1992.. Considered to be one of the best of all time... It can be modified also ;)
Originally posted by LVjetboy
But then there's the other sources of noise you mentioned downstream of the head amp and that muddies the water.
Yup.. Way back when, I had a customer who wanted every wire run individually channeled in a Dynamat(when Dynamat was first being used) sandwhich regardless of what other vehicle wiring it was near... I think we added about 400lbs of mat to the entire car after it was finished :D
Originally posted by LVjetboy
Must be thinking to much...need another brew. If I knew what the h*ll I was talking about it'd help. :D
jer
Heffiwiesen please :p

BoatFloating
05-25-2004, 03:45 PM
Here is my way of tuning. Turn it up and when it sounds like shit turn it loader and then you sound like the other 90% of the boats out there.:eek: