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ok i talked to procharger today and went over the motor i am building. they told me with 6lbs of boost i should have 850-900hp. i have know idea if this is going to be to much for my 25' switzer. i only have a stock bravo 1. what drive or upgrades do i need with this kind of power. i run like 600hp now and have never had a problem with my bravo 1, but i do not take off like a retard. and advise would be great.
502procharger:
ok i talked to procharger today and went over the motor i am building. they told me with 6lbs of boost i should have 850-900hp. i have know idea if this is going to be to much for my 25' switzer. i only have a stock bravo 1. what drive or upgrades do i need with this kind of power. i run like 600hp now and have never had a problem with my bravo 1, but i do not take off like a retard. and advise would be great.800+HP...better have a strong bottom end! :D
billet crank, manley pro series rods, je pistons, crane roller valve train, what else do you think i should look into for the lower end?
502procharger:
billet crank, manley pro series rods, je pistons, crane roller valve train, what else do you think i should look into for the lower end?Dry sump oil system...???? Looks like youv'e got it covered. Anyone want to add anything here???
eek!
ty,
i really do not know much about a dry sump. what is the differance, and what are the benifits? what do they cost?
502procharger:
ty,
i really do not know much about a dry sump. what is the differance, and what are the benifits? what do they cost?To be quite honest I am not the expert on it, but I do know that it allows you to put more oil in the areas its most needed without having to wait for the internal oil pump to do the rest. Plus there is less oil being thrown around from the moving mass of the rods and crank.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think when your up around those numbers 900HP+ or so, it isn't a bad choice, but expensive. Call around and see what some others think.
-Ty
i will call around tomorow. if anyone else knows please let me know.
hi 502.How do you like your switzer?Are they well made?I see quite a few for sale in the boat trader and was curious.
How fast is your boat and how does it handle rough water?
If you are planning to make that kind of HP you should run a dry sump system. It will make more HP and be safer for the engine. Check out this website for more info; www.johnsonsoilpumps.com.
There is a good section in there to explain how they work.
JB
Is this motor the Stage 1 540 we were talking about?
shockwaveharry:
Is this motor the Stage 1 540 we were talking about?I don't know myself, but I think by the time you have invested a lout into this motor, a dry sump is a great insurance policy.
Anyone agree?
I agree. If you are going to run the motor at it's capabilities, then you should go dry sump.
502procharger:
...i only have a stock bravo 1. what drive or upgrades do i need with this kind of power. i run like 600hp now and have never had a problem with my bravo 1, but i do not take off like a retard. and advise would be great.You WILL break that Bravo. Its a matter of time.
Your 2 choices..IMHO, is either Imco or B-Max...I prefer the B-Max (we break less of them than imco). But the Problem is Availablity. They are pretty hard to get. And $$$$$ eek!
For instance:
28 Cat, Teague motor, 1000hp dyno...in rough, or semi rough water, the Brand new Imco XR Broke 3 times summer. Prop/Vert Shafts, & Shifting forks once eek! But much to Imco's applaude, they take it back, and fix it each time.
With all this in mind, upgrading a drive is a must. Of course, this is a larger cat, your boat is a little smaller.
[ August 28, 2002, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Horsepowerchik ]
first of all i hope you got close to 600 cubic inches to make 950hp with 6 pounds boost.your bravo wont last long,but if you wait until you blow it up you take a chance of the outdrive not being worth anything plus you could lose your $600 prop in the process.i would have it built before do any serious running.
502procharger:
ty,
i really do not know much about a dry sump. What is the difference, and what are the benefits? What do they cost?I have a fair amount of experience with dry sumps. They are called that because the sump is dry unlike most of our engines where the oil pumps sump is submerged in the oil reservoir (pan). They can be expensive & will provide an additional HP increase not to mention the increased reliability that they provide. If you had the money I wouldn't give it a second thought.
The systems include lots of braided hoses with A/N fittings, a storage tank and a 3, 4 or 5-stage pump mounted on the front of the engine & belt driven, cooler, and filter. Oil is drawn from the tank to the pump, pressurized then delivered to the engine, while the other stages scavenge oil from the heads, oil pan & sometimes the valley, then delivered back to the tank. Due to the capacity of the system you never want to get on a cold engine & should have a temp gauge in the tank else you might damage bearing with cold oil over time.
i am looking more for about 850hp not 950hp, but i have not decided to stay with the 540, or go to the 572. the 540 dynoed at 634 with ported gm rec port heads, and i think i am going to go with a set of brodix, or merlin heads but i have not decided. the motor is 634hp without the procharger, i should be able to make 850 easy with 6lbs of boost. my engine builder said the 540 is a stronger motor than if i stroke it to the 572, but if any of you have a diff. opinion i would live to hear it. as far as a dry sump goes, who makes a good one and what do they cost. if i do not go with the dry sump am i just loosing hp or am i going to blow my motor? any input is great.
hpchick,
is there anything i can do to my bravo 1 to beef it up? so you think i should pull it now and sell it, put on a b-max or imco xtreme? what about the xr? it is a bit more in my price range. if any of you know where to get one of these drives used at a fair price please let me know. what is my bravo 1 worth?
502procharger:
as far as a dry sump goes, who makes a good one and what do they cost. if i do not go with the dry sump am i just loosing hp or am i going to blow my motor? any input is great.Call these guys http://www.weaverbrothers.com/ about drysumps
Weaver Brothers, LTD.
1980 Boeing Way
Carson City, NV 89706
(775) 883-7677 Phone
I bet you pop that stock bravo idling out the first time you put it in the water.
But seriously you need to either beef it up or replace it with a something that can handle that much power. like a #6 drive (not really an option becasue of the need for a tranny) or perhaps an arneson. They make a kit for bravo to ASD where the engeins stays in the same place and the tranny mount in a stand off box with the asd attached to the standoff. works pretty well and is customer made for the application.
502procharger:
billet crank, manley pro series rods, je pistons, crane roller valve train, what else do you think i should look into for the lower end?Basically the same motor as mine. I run Chevy steel square port heads, w/mild porting. B&M 420 blower w/intercooler. Dooley 10 qt. pan, high volume Melling oil pump, 7# boost, 878 horsepower at 6000 rpm. Bravo 1 with upgraded gears and shafts. Just hit 1 yr anniversary last weekend. No problems so far, knock on wood. One caveat, it's in a reasonably light 22' cat.
Craig
craig,
sounds like we have the same motor. i would love to here about what you did to your bravo to beef it up. my boat is a 25' switzer. it is not that heavy of a boat either, i do not know exactly what it weighs, but it is not a tank. what kind of sppeds are you seeing with that hp in your boat? i see like 82 with my 600hp, and i have no idea what to expect with 850-900hp. any info is great.
brian
As for the Bravo, I used Billet Marine's upper gears. They take stock Merc ones, weld the floor, debur them, polish them, perform several ritualistic chants and a few other things :D I had them put a steel tower in as well as their vertical shaft and prop shaft. I don't use the drive water pick-up to feed the motor, so I tapped the side of the drive case and plumbed a line from there to the Billet Marine top cap. I change drive oil about every 20 hours. No hole shots and try not to get the prop out of the water in the rough stuff eek!
I'm running 1.36 gears. Speed, 30 pitch Bravo I've seen 106.3 @ 6000 rpm. With a stock 32 Bravo, 114.5 @ 5800. This was December @ Havasu. Here in Phoenix in July and 105 degrees and humid I hit 108.4 with the 32. I'd like to try a labbed 32 or a 34 next December at the Parade of Lights and see if I can get a little more mph.
Craig
[ August 29, 2002, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Craig ]
Gnarley is right they do help in the Hp deparment.The only thing to watch out for when running a dry sump oil system is cold oil. The high flow rates of the oil can posibly break the pump or cause internal damage. make sure the oil is good and warm before you really nail it. But they are the best way to oil a engine if you are going to turn lots of Hp and Rpm.
Tom
...2 1/2 cents worth
I didn't read everyones reply so if I'm saying something that's already been said I apologize.
First, let me disspell some of the myths that I've been reading on the first 10 posts or so.
Let me also say I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here but there are some things that guys like us need to know.
Myth #1:
You, by no means, need a dry sump to push 900hp.
2. With a Pro Charger (in this case)you do not NEED anything more than what the crate GM motor comes with to push the same hp.
3. You will not NECESSARILY break a Bravo 1 with same hp.
I know this because I've done it.
Crate 502 stock bottom end, 8 qt pan.
Crane Hydraulic roller valve train
Merlin heads
Single plane SINGLE 800 CARB Yes, I said single carb.
Stage 4 Pro Charger 11# in the box, 9# in the manifold = ~900hp
CMI exhaust
All on a 4600 lb boat with a hook on the bottom and still did around 95 mph on a totally stock bravo 1.
Oh! one more thing I did it on 94 octane and full timing too.
NEVER A PROBLEM.
Breaking your Bravo has alot to do with the amount of weight it has to push and how you treat it. IN MOST CASES.
Alot of times guys break bravos due to the way they come out of the hole and another not as well known fact, when you jump waves and come out of the water and re-enter. Lots of stress there.
PS the boat was an 87 242ls Formula.
If you want to set up a PC feel free to email and I'll be glad to help you out.
DAVE
Oh ya. One more thing. Some time ago PC had an article in Hot Boat where they put 10# in a pair of 502's using a stage 4 kit. Dyno'd at over 1000 hp. Stock bottom ends.
dave i am already runnung a procharger at about 600hp on a 502 with like 6 lbs of boost. it has been great. i am building a sec. 540 as we speak that is bullet proof. it is about 650 hp withiout the procharger so i figure 850 to 900hp with 7 0r 8lbs. i have a stock bravo 1 now and have never had a problem. i have the chance to pick up a imco for 4k or an xr used but in good shape for 4250. my boat is less than 4k so with one of these drives i should be fine. i was thinking of just keeping the bravo 1 until i bust it, but then it will be worth next to nothing. at least now i should be able to get a few grand out of it. let me know what you think.
also i have my timming backed down to 30 deg and run 93. i have never had any sign of detonation. should i bump it up a bit?
There is a place in Fla. (and I cant remember the name of it) that when, or IF, you break your Bravo you can send it and get a performace build up for under $2000. When I talked to them (last year) they said all parts would be like the Imco or other upgraded drives. I'll look back in my notes to see what their name is.
It would be a good idea to buy a spare drive. That way if you do break you can be boating again in an hour. Send the broken one to get fixed and keep on boating.
Now, why not just buy a B-max that wont break? Well they cost over $11,000. You could buy two drives, fix them both twice for that much.
As long as you're not going through them every season then it'll pay for itself.
BUT THAT'S THE GAMBLE.
You can expect 900hp from a 540 with 8# pretty much no problem.
As far as timing. What is the exact setup, Top to bottom and I'll see if I can recommend any timing changes for you. The smallest things matter.
DAVE
motor i am using now is pretty much stock except for cranr cam. fast glass elbows, nickerson carb. runs like a beast though.
new motor
540, scat billet crank, manely pro series rods, crane roller valve train, je pistons, 9 to 1. ported rec port gm heads, dart alum. intake,msd marine dist and box, cmi headers, manely severe duty valves, imco pullies and valve covers, shinny new blue paint. areomotive electric fuel pump with boost compensating regulator. thats about all i can remember. i do need advise on where the set the total timming though.
I was actually more interested in the smaller details:
Jet sizes
T-stat
spark plug
cam specs
Which PC (stage 3 or 4)
and the static comp ratio, which you've already told me is 9:1.
They are flat top JE's right?
Octane available/willing/able to run consistantly
some of these questions you may have answered but these are the specifics that matter.
DAVE