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RiverDave:
How's Trident involved with TPC carbs?
RD It isn't. I am no more involved with TPC than I am with any other vendor that I anticipate working with or have worked with. If I knew both sides of a Rex Marine bash, I would chime in just as readily.
I just know, near completely, both sides of the story, and have personally worked on the boat after the new carbs were installed.
Jordy, regarding the 8 month downtime... The result of their last tuning session was that the boat had greater issues, and they needed to be resolved before any more tuning could take place. Some of the greater issues were resolved in my garage the day after the failed tuning session, but my advice to Justin after seeing the bad timing, LOTS of water in the fuel, LOTS of corrosion in the lines, regulator and other components, was to replace the bad regulator (that also dumped corrosion into the new carbs), remove and re-clean the carbs, time it properly, remove, drain and roll the tanks, replace the fuel filter and lines and start over. His fuel pump was located above his sump by a pretty good amount, and it was not getting a prime. That had to be relocated down as I recall. He also had a bad wiring connection on the fuel pump, which I repaired for him right then. I told him then, after never having talked to Ty before that the carbs were not the problem. One little tiny spot of that oxidation through a needle and seat valve is absolutely enough to ruin one. I have done it before.
Ty has had the floats waiting, as well as the rest of the tuning session that he owes Justin. Justin has taken this period to get steamed up over the situation, instead of maintaining contact and getting his carbs finished. To this day, I do not know if Justin's boat has been running well enough to do another tuning session. I will promise you this though, if the tanks were not cleaned, and the lines and filter were not replaced, then it is still not ready.
Ty offered to rebuild the carbs last week for free. He offered to boost reference them, do some new mods to help him and baseline them for the new blower. Justin gave him the finger.
I am uninterested at this point. Ty phoned me for some advice with regards to Justin. He knows I worked on his boat, and he asked me what I felt, if anything needed to be done. I told him to offer once and for all to finish the job, and I told him to do it in writing. A couple days later Ty gave Justin what I consider a very attractive offer for the above rebuild, and Justin had the sack to ask for his money back. 8 months later, after never getting the boat cleaned up to the point that they could dial it in, and after several social engagements where they both re-iterated to each other that they need to get together and finish the job, and after pumping gallons of bad gas and corrosion through the new carbs.
You make your own decision. I think Ty has done the right thing, and I am not alone.
[ March 26, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Froggystyle ]
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RiverDave:
Am I the only one that thinks this thread should no longer be in a tech section?
It is not of a technical nature, it is of a social and business nature.
It belongs in the sandbar or somewhere other then here.
RD That is my last post on the subject, and I agree with you. I think it is a dead issue, as the interested parties have come to conclusion, and the rest is aftermath. I don't think it should move to the sandbar though.
I think any "advice" given regarding this subject should move to e-mailville. This is a private matter between two individuals.
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RiverDave:
Am I the only one that thinks this thread should no longer be in a tech section?
It is not of a technical nature, it is of a social and business nature.
It belongs in the sandbar or somewhere other then here.
RD I disagree! It should stay here and both parties should voice their opinion freely.
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MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty
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Ty, you are one of the biggest dipshits I have ever met. My motor is a train wreck eh? Then why did it run so well after I rebuilt your shit pile carbs myself. You suck Ty, TPC carbs sucks and I wouldn't strap those hunks of shit on my boat if you paid me. So please refrain from calling my motor a train wreck and casting blame in all directions but your shotty work. I threw your carbs in the trash Ty, doesn't that tell you something about your work? I built my own now with all new parts and a meticulous eye. Want to know what? My boat actually runs and idles and everything! But I still must have a train wreck, right? You're a train wreck yourself buddy. You lie to your customers and yourself so much that you believe it yourself.
[ March 26, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]
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Hotcrusader76:
MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty Professional would be a refund. Why would I ever want you to touch anything on my motor ever again? YOU SCARE ME! Stay away, and I am done here....
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Hotcrusader76:
MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty Ty,
Dont take it personally! I am not taking sides I do not have enough information to make a decision on what happened.
But,
You openly advertise your services on a free and open board Hot boat forums so in turn I believe that Justin or any one else satisfied or dissatisfied has the right to openly post their opinion of your work.
No Threats and No Nudity have been posted in this thread so I see no reason to move it.
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And Ty, I don't want to talk about this any more with you or Wes, ever. So lets just agree on that, ok? But if you are posting things here in a public forum and my little built in bullshit meter is going off, I am going to post. Sorry, it's just the way I am built. So, thanks for nothing and I hope the profits you made at my expense get you far in your business ventures.
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RiverDave:
Miller, I wasn't suggesting locking the thread, or deleting it.
I was simply saying that this isn't "on topic" or of a "technical nature" which is what the "tech" sections are for.
They both would still have the opportunity to respond in another forum.
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it's moved or not. It's just this kind of bantering that kills the tech sections.
That's all I was saying.
RD RD, it is technical if it's regarding the quaility of work of someone who is consistently spamming this site.
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RiverDave:
Miller, I wasn't suggesting locking the thread, or deleting it.
I was simply saying that this isn't "on topic" or of a "technical nature" which is what the "tech" sections are for.
They both would still have the opportunity to respond in another forum.
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it's moved or not. It's just this kind of bantering that kills the tech sections.
That's all I was saying.
RD That is a good point Dave. Did I really Just say that! What the hell am I thinking today! wink
I guess I am a little sensitive about moderating someones opinion. I think that it was based on a tech subject and now has evolved into dissatisfied customer/ supplier conflict. It is probably not completely appropriate to be here but I still think that moving it would be wrong.
I will stay out of it from now on and leave it up to Ty and Justin
I am not trying to offend anyone or take sides here.
Miller(advocate for free speech)19j
[ March 26, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: miller19j ]
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Free advertising from these boards?
The nerve of some people. :rolleyes:
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Well now everyone can witness the level of insult I have delt with over this issue.
As one of my previous customers stated," I'll be the first to thank and the first to flame a vendor because I believe that "WE ARE THE CUSTOMER" regardless of what some vendors may perceive." In this case I swallowed the pill and took for action a resolve to the matter, regardless of whos right or wrong.
I will post the pictures of the internals of his carburetors when they arrived in shop. Then everyone else can be the judge of it.
My resolution to the matter still stands, but it looks as if Mr. Condon took matters into his own resolve.
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Infomaniac:
Free advertising from these boards?
The nerve of some people. :rolleyes: Lets just say that I can speak for everyone when I say that you have contributed a whole lot to this site as far as being a technical reference and a straight shooter. Your engine building threads on HB are some of the best threads I have read. Keep up the good work Info....
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Hotcrusader76:
I will post the pictures of the internals of his carburetors when they arrived in shop. Then everyone else can be the judge of it.
Yeah Ty you go and do that. Better also state theat everything that you got, you threw in the trash and replaced. It was a slam dunk. All you had to do was assemble the new parts (except for the main body) and you were done, but you couldn't even do that right. So post away and dig yourself in deeper.
I ask the audience here, what do I have to gain by speaking of my experiences with Ty? What does Ty have to gain; or lose?
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RiverDave:
Did you change anything else in that process other then the carbs? Or is it you just rebuilt your carb's and now the boat runs fine?
RD We broke the fuel pressure regulator while we were trying to toubleshoot the carbs so I replaced it. After replacing the fuel pressure regualtor, the carbs still had flooding issues, so THEN I rebuilt them. After the rebuild and discovering the bad floats (they had holes in them), I had no problems. Ty states that he bench tests his carbs (including the float assembly) before he sends them to his customers, but I find that hard to believe after my experience.
You know, I would have let this thing totally rest if I wasn't poked with a stick by Wes and Ty. They both asked what I wanted to resolve this whole thing to be happy and I asked for a full refund. Ty countered with offering to rebuild the carbs again but why would I want that? I am done using him since my bad experience and have became quite proficient since the inception of this project. He insists that he rebuild them. Ever hear the expression "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Well, I just want my money, no services.
Anyway, I still think he makes a beautiful product, it's just the attention to mechanical detail that is (or perhaps *was*) lacking. Perhaps my experiece was a complete fluke and now he's the man, I don't know. I hope so, for his client's sake. I guess I was asking too much of him to trust that he would really test and inspect everything that went into his finished product.
I just expect that when he hands something back to me, it better damn well work. Especially if the cost of his services would have bought me a couple new dominators.
[ March 26, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]
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Hotcrusader76:
When the clients motor is a train wreck before his new carbs are installed, what good is a vacuum gauge? Funny that you refer to a customer's motor as a train wreck, blame that for all the problems but procede to rape him for $1500. From an ethical standpoint, wouldn't it have been better to have him address his "train wreck" issues before rebuilding his carbs? Although, in your testimonial section you speak of a 6500 rpm pass. Not too bad for a train wreck. Really weak attempt to cover your faulty workmanship.
On an even funnier note, the motor that I was speaking of didn't belong to Justin and it was pretty far from a train wreck. Remember talking to me Ty? I gave you every bit of information I had on my motor and was looking for a baseline suggestion to get through the season before I shipped the carb back to have you "work your magic" on it. Does any of this ring a bell? The only thing I didn't have was a vacuum reading and you said you would figure it out because you had all the information you needed and could work it all out. A week goes by and I talk to you to see what you've come up with. I almost dropped the phone when I hear "Well, where do you think you need to be?" That was the last time I talked to you Ty and I'll Mexi-chrome my carb before I'd let you touch it. This is all in a different time and reference than Justin's deal by the way and I came to my conclusions on my own accord. Although, after talking to you, I did warn him to rethink his decision to let you do his carbs. Hate to say I told you so.
Hopefully all your customer service issues have been addressed and good luck in the future. :D
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How much water was in the tanks and how much fuel pressure???? Just curious not trying to start anything but I have been following this thread.
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schiada96:
How much water was in the tanks and how much fuel pressure???? Just curious not trying to start anything but I have been following this thread. Fuel pressure was at 9 lbs and it still is. Water in the tank is an exageration, more like condensation. I still take off my floats and will see a few droplets of water in there every now and then. But nothing major....
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For the record, what your saying is the corrosion (for a lack of better technical wording) seen in your old metering blocks (pics below) is an exageration?
You contracted me to overhaul your carburetors Mr. Condon. When I discovered this mess while taking them apart, I contacted you immediately, correct? Did I not inform you to clean your other fuel components as well? I know you remember these pics because after you veiwed them you opted to either replace them or upgrade to Billet for the added performance and mainly "pimp" factor and we know which option you took.
Your old components were discarded due to what I call a "total loss". The emulsion circuit (mainwell region for the novice)was non-correctable in order to keep that carburetor properly tuned. As I do with all defective components, they become trash. It is not our policy to return old components to the customer.
If you believe that this white substance just suddenly appeared inside your fuel pump, regulator, and or original carbs but didn't bother to anticipate it coming from your fuel tanks, then I advise that you investigate further.
This white crap was so loaded upside the mainwells, that when your originally ill tuned motor finanlly achieved some fuel suction it nearly blew the top of your scoop. Correct? I know there were some witnesses there that could vouch for that. After that event I assume you then contacted me. Right? For carburetor repair right? That's what remember and that's what I invoiced you. Advise is free and it always emcompasses my scope of knowledge and experience so with that being said, if you would have asked me to ovehaul your "fuel system" then I would have declined.
On a very last note, before this post becomes considered SPAM or is it anti-SPAM:
I will post the letter sent to Mr. Condon in full detail. After that I will no longer entertain this topic as I believe it's no longer resolvable.
I encourage all of my customers that have dealt with my company or any vendor at that to freely express their opinions on services or products they were or were not happy with. I would never damn a person for doing that, but the second the truth becomes misleading and inaccurate, well... All I can say is just be honest because it's in "your" best interest not mine.
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00017.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00018.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00019.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00020.jpg
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~!
:D
[ March 26, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: jordanpaulk ]
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Original "UNEDITED" Resolution letter sent to Mr. Condon
Good afternoon Justin,
I want to personally thank you for your business last year, which has contributed greatly to the success of my company. As a company, we grew leaps and bounds based on a lot of lessons learned from your experience. We focus on carburetors now, and do it very well. I understand that a lot of our growth was to a degree at your expense, and I want to make it right.
Through ***boat.com I have become aware that you are building a supercharged BBC now. Congratulations! This is a great, logical next step to your passion. This addition warrants a re-calibration in order to maintain proper air-fuel ratios under boost. This combined with the far greater concern of our commitment not being fulfilled to you as a customer I would like to offer you a deal. Let me first explain some of our new modifications and changes.
TPC Racing has begun to offer many new innovative services and features to our carburetors that have been quite successful in increasing the horsepower as well as show potential for the motor theyre destined for.
One of our newest additions is the Braswell B-series step-cut booster, which enhances the venturi vacuum signal, and while keeping the added benefit of running a drop-leg style booster. This modification alone warrants power increases throughout the mapped fuel curve by improving the atomization of fuel as it enters the intake, thanks to the improved design for fuel shear. This service was not available to our Stage 3 overhaul at the time you utilized our services.
Another craftsmanship and finish advance has been the addition of our local metal finisher to our team, who has succeeded in elevating the pimp factor of our carburetors exponentially.
We have also dramatically increased our in-stock inventory, and no longer rely on outside sources to fulfill our clients immediate needs. Justin, the days of not having floats in stock are long gone. We have a full complement of floats, needles and seats, jets, and other assorted parts that serve to provide more emergent parts delivery if necessary.
The most useful advance we have made in the last several months is a blueprint reference of each carburetor. To the layperson, most of the modifications we make are just drilling and de-burring. In reality, we are making sweeping changes to the actual way the carb is metering fuel, and enhancing its ability to deliver over the entire curve. TPC is now offering a manual that includes every single modification we have made to a carburetor, which should prove invaluable for future modification and tuning. Every metered part, every passage is cataloged and recorded in great detail, leaving you, the consumer with a 100% accurate vision of what is in your carburetor.
Without any further delay I want to offer you the option of having your two TPC Racing carburetors updated with our recent improvements at no cost to you.
This forced induction application/update would include all new gaskets, weighed/balanced 2X4 race floats, Braswells B-cut booster (standard on 4150 forced induction applications), powdercoating of the mainbodies to your color of choice (over 30 colors available now including candies and translucent), new needles/seats, and a blower fuel curve at that time will be mapped and plotted utilizing your existing metering blocks and new BBC cam profiles.
Another added benefit to accepting this offer is that your primary PV circuit will be boost referenced and documented on our new TPC blueprint package now offered on all Stage 3 builds and provided to you free of charge. I know you mentioned last year about upgrading to an HP/Proform body to improve the balance of airflow and enhance the performance potential, if during the time of updating your carbs you wish to implement this change, then by all means supply me with the bodies and I will incorporate them into the modifications. I will also thoroughly remove all the old coating material from the stock bodies so that you have good solid universal cores for future plans.
I trust that your interest in this offer will alleviate the frustrations you may currently have on getting those two carburetors up to speed for a blower application, but rest assured your experience with this worthy update and us will be greatly appreciated. What I will need from you is this:
Completely filled out calibration form online at our site.
3-week turnaround time on the modifications.
Color choice for the mainbodies
Shipment of the two carburetors (dry) to our address.
I offer this to you free of charge. I am 100% committed to your satisfaction, and want to see you grinning ear to ear when these carbs crack open for the first time on your new blower motor.
I am confident you will take me up on this offer, and I look forward to fulfilling our commitment to you. Please let me know of any other material shortfalls you were expecting during our first dealings (i.e. fittings or hardware) and I will include them with the finished carburetors.
V/R
Ty Lofstrom
President-Carburetor Specialist
Texas Performance Carburetors
P.O.Box 712973 Santee, CA 92072
619.749.9643
tdlofstrom@tpcracing.com
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From the OP6C-IV, oops I mean V RSVP list ( I get confused sometimes) :
Name:............. Boat: .......... Staying:
HotCrusader76...'81 Crusader Jet...Next to Jordy
Hey Ty, you still going to camp next to my van down by the river? If you do, could you bring me some Trident Performance Carb stickers so I can get a couple more MPH (I saw that in a thread somewhere)? :D :D :D
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jordanpaulk:
From the OP6C-IV, oops I mean V RSVP list ( I get confused sometimes) :
Name:............. Boat: .......... Staying:
HotCrusader76...'81 Crusader Jet...Next to Jordy
Hey Ty, you still going to camp next to my van down by the river? If you do, could you bring me some Trident Performance Carb stickers so I can get a couple more MPH (I saw that in a thread somewhere)? :D :D :D Wow You are all full of Piss and Vinegar today! eek!
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miller19j:
Wow You are all full of Piss and Vinegar today! eek! Better than being full of shit I suppose. I think I may have confused some other stuff in that last post, but I don't know what. This working all day is killing me. It has wrecked my diet, my self-imposed alcohol ban, turned my brain to mush, I think I need to quit as it's become detrimental to my health and overall well-being. :D :D :D
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Hey Ty, let me make it simple. You like to cloud the issue with shit loads of text and cheap $.25 words. Two questions?
What does all that shit about corrosion and water in my fuel have to do with you returning carbs to me with bad, and untested floats?
Why is it that after I rebuilt them myself, they worked just fine without ANY OTHER changes to my setup?
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I guess I'm a little late here but here's my .02 on the issues of moderation of this thread some have expressed interest in seeing done.
It's a tech topic that now includes a disagreement of 2 parties (still on a tech topic), so I'm not moving it.
I have no problem with debates of issues like this until they result in what I call "dead horse beating". I encourage all to express opinions and respond to each other as long as there's some new and useful info being presented. When that ceases to be the case and any tech thread deteriorates into a name calling flamefest that's of no benefit to anyone, that's when I'll lock it down. Just like SD does in the vdrive forum. This is a tech forum and it's content should remain as such for the most part, and also of some relevance to the reader.
With that said I think both sides have been pretty well represented on the subject so further re-hashing of the same info will be interpreted by me as of no benefit to the tech readers and I'll lock it. If you have new info though feel free. :)
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Boy I'm glad I stumbled into this one.
TPC has worked wonders for me on both of my set ups, a 750 and 850. He has provided help to me several times, including while I was on my boat on my mobile phone trying to tune the carb them. As I stated what I was doing, he professionally was telling me that I was incorrect, and he was right in the end.
He helped one of the biggest pains in the asses (per my wife) getting my boat from running well to absolutely great. Keep in mind I run a 454 26' jet and getting this beast running great is a task!
Ty never once backed off, nor did stopped returning calls or emails, he offered to replace parts if needed as well.
I can speak from over 25 years of boating and God, countless hours of working on motors and I know of only three or four folks who would bend over backwards like that, and Ty@TPC is one of them.
As I have stated before and will proudly exclaim again, I'm smoke someone to hell if I get screwed, but I'll be as proactively to state my satisfaction when is well worth the effort, and Ty @TPC as well as Tom@jetboatpeformance is an example of companies that I have found on this board and I'll use time and again with confidence for my boat.
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I don't know Ty or Justin, but it seems to me like someone willing to actually go for a boat ride to attempt to line the problem out would be an example of good customer service as opposed to being told to pull the carbs and return them for further inspection. Being an automotive parts rebuilder myself, I know no matter how much attention to detail you give to every job that comes through the door, occasionally you will have a dissatisfied customer, and no matter how you try, they cannot be pleased. I am not taking sides here, just saying that an easily fixed problem ( in this case bad floats)ends up in $1500 worth of carbs being thrown in the trash.
[img]http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/DSC00810.JPG[/img]
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I don't even want to talk about it any more. There is too much bad blood and verbal damage to Ty and myself. I hate this kind of thing and it doesn't belong here. I've had a sick feeling in my stomach all day. I don't want anything from Ty. Ty, we're done. Lets agree to disagree and both be men and not look back. I don't want to see you at the river and have it feel wierd. If the ***boat webmaster deleted everything related to Ty and his carbs and everything Ty and myself have said, I would consider it a late birthday present; and I'm sure no one here would miss this kind of juvenile thread one bit. Peace Ty, and I hope some day we can make amends and have a beer.
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Not to step on any of the moderators, but that looks like a good out point. I would let something like this run a little more in the sandbar, but this is a tech forum so it is getting locked before we get buried under a mountain of .02 cents.