Impeller question?

[Eric]

I can't believe that Fast_1 (AKA ???) yanked his post.
I guess when you hide behind a new screen name and post some BS f'n LIE, and you're called out and your LIE is exposed, the only thing you can do is destroy the evidence. Shred the files and burn them!
What a joke.
Eric
P.S. SteveM, thanks for sharing your metallurgical skills. I was REALLY hoping you were watching this thread.

[AGGRESSOR JETS]

Jetmugg:I originally talked to SteveM. some time ago. We did make up Cupro Nickle Impellers for Test. All three ripped out at the vains-(Blown Gas 1500 H/P Our Mag.Bronze has lasted 3 to 4 years at these stress levels. Stainless has been about the same. Put new S/Steel 17-4 H/T "WOW It has held up so far-(3rd year)but cost to produce is way high.
I cannot find cupro nickle in yeilds, elongations Quoted: Don't have Steves # and I think what these are being stated from are utilized on subs and formulation is not available-Would try again-
P.S. We will be trying a new spin cast in the near future on both Mag.Alum./Tenzaloy & Mag bronze.
As to why we don't call our "A" cut a "AA" cut, The Dia. is 9.00 on 28 degrees - much like the berkeley "A" cut - This would also cause questions as to why we call it a "AA" then.
RPMs Drop on Like cut Impellers(Aggressor vs Any)Just a Fact-Flow Load is Higher & Leans on the torque side more "don't know any other way to rate"
Thanks for the discussion its what makes jets work. p.s phone is toll free 888-246-5075 if you know how to reach Steve=Dave Aggressor
Originally posted by Jetmugg:
SteveM. - Still suggests cupro-nickel (70/30) as a good alternative to bridge the gap between Aluminum and Stainless Steel. Approximate Tensile strength - 80 Ksi
Approximate Yield Strength - 40 Ksi
Approximate % Elongation - 30%
[/B]

[AGGRESSOR JETS]

Slick-Dan is at the TOP' If you want to run with the big dog's- Dan can- He may also talk to you about a 9 vain bowl and stuffer also. Take Care Originally posted by Slick:
Dave, welcome to the board. It's great having input from the manufacturing facet of things. Unfortunately you've been premised by a few blow-hards.
Here is the reason for my post. Dan Nelson is going to be rebuilding my pump this year. Does that mean he's going to replace my SS berk with an Aggressor bronze "B"? I'd really like another 20mph!!!!! Yeeeeeehhhhhaaaaaa.
I know those weren't your words, but I had to ask, just to be a $hit.
Later
Slick

[Slick]

Dave, actually, Dan has mentioned a 9 vein to me. Mainly because I'm running a JC and would like the ability to see if a wedge would get it out of the water more or possibly a droop. For right now I'm going to leave the JC bowl on, add an inducer and per his suggestion a new grate. We'll see how she runs after that and then tinker from there.

[flat broke]

Originally posted by AGGRESSOR JETS:
Jetmugg:I originally talked to SteveM. some time ago. We did make up Cupro Nickle Impellers for Test. All three ripped out at the vains-(Blown Gas 1500 H/P I cannot find cupro nickle in yeilds, elongations Quoted: Don't have Steves # and I think what these are being stated from are utilized on subs and formulation is not available-Would try again-
Dave,
FYI, SteveM is Jetmugg. Thanks for joining the boards, your presence is greatly needed not only from a manufacturer awareness standpoint (John West has been absolutely awesome in this area), but also to keep a small percentage of your clientel from negatively affecting the overall perception of your product.
Thanks,
Chris

[Jetmugg]

Man, I love this metallurgical stuff. First, yes, Jetmugg and SteveM are the same guy - me. Second, it's good to see more manufacturers getting involved in the board.
Dave - I really like the idea of spin-casting the impellers - good idea. My background is in centrifugal castings, so I am naturally in favor of any rotating molds. It's good science.
I have had experience casting all of the alloys in question, and do have some personal favorites. I like the selection of 17-4 PH over the more standard 304 or 316 SS alloys. The strength can be very high, but as you have obviously learned, the processing is expensive and time consuming, requiring sophisticated heat treatment and difficulty in machining and welding (if required). Some of the Duplex stainless steels (Austenitic/ Ferritic) can give even higher properties, but again at a high cost. This may only be cost effective for the most radical race boats. TFJ, etc.
I assume that the Manganese Bronze alloys you are using are either Alloy C86200 or C86300. I have poured a good bit of this material, but have never had very good luck hitting the required mechanical properties, especially the Elongation. The alloys seem to be prone to brittle failure in my experience. I suppose it is a matter of experience with the particular alloy, as small differences in composition can have a powerful affect on the properties. If you are able to hit the ASTM required minimum properties, then the Mn Bronzes should make a very good impeller material.
My personal preference is for the Cu-Ni Alloy C96400. The stated minimums for this alloy are 60Ksi / 32 Ksi / 20%, but with careful composition control, 80 Ksi / 40 Ksi / 30% can be achieved consistently. This alloy is especially sensitive to Si content (as well as some other elements). If the Si is too low, the strength will be too low, and the elongation will be high. If the Si is too high, then the strength will be high (around 90 Ksi), but the elongation will suffer. If you can hold the Si between 0.28 and 0.32, you will achieve good results. I don't think this alloy would ever be suitable for maximum effort (top fuel type applications), but it is easy to cast, machine and weld, which may make it a very good upgrade over an aluminum impeller.
If you would like to discuss this any further, please e-mail me, and I'll send my home phone number. Right now, I have quite a bit of time on my hands, as I was "Downsized" out of a job about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and will be here, searching for a job.
SteveM.

[Jetmugg]

Oops - I just saw your phone# above, I'll give a call tomorrow.
SteveM

[ChetCapoli]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HBjet:
[B]Chet, you will not quit.
I'll break this down for you guys, and if I'm wrong, please let me know.
up to 600hp, use an aluminum impeller
600 - 800hp, use a bronze impeller
800 and up, use a stainless steel impeller.
Chet, you said there is nothing wrong with a deal, I totally agree, but when you are building a 900-1000hp motor, to put into a brand new boat, I would think you would want the best, and to do it right the first time.
Chet, you said you are going to run an aluminum in your close to 700hp motor once you have it dialed in. Thats great! Lets us know how it turns out for you. Also, will you have dyno slips to prove the hp? You also said that a bronze impeller is good to at least 1500hp. DUDE! If you honestly think a bronze will hold up to 1500hp (because you did the research and field testing, oh, lets not forget the most important test that CRD does, that is set one by another on the floor, and stare at them for hours and hours) Anyway, if you think a bronze will hold up to "At Least" 1500hp, then why the HELL would anyone ever buy a stainless? Why is it jet boaters with 900hp+ motors are running stainless? Most boats you see are running an aluminum or stainless, because bronze is too heavy for lower then 600hp motors to turn, and isn't strong enough for 800hp+ motors to turn. But you know what, your right Chet. If you had a doller for every boat runing a stainless impeller in a motor 800hp-1500hp, you would be a rich man.
I have an idea for you Chet, this will not only make you the savior once again in the boating industry, but also rich. Here's the Drill. You find and meet every jet boater who is running a stainless with there 800-1500hp motor, use your charm to warm them over to listen to you and your money saving plan. You sell them the idea that you know is the truth, and works, and is proven. Once they are convinced that the shop who ever did there pump work screwed them over for money, and sold them an impeller that is mainly used for motors 1500hp and above, your going to help them out and sell them a bronze impeller, mark up the price 50 bucks, and your fifty bucks richer. Now, I know thats not a lot of money at the moment, but look at the big picture Chet. If you did this for every jet boater who is running a stainless when they could be running a bronze, you would never have to work a day in your life, and maybe, just maybe you could get your boat fixed, motor dialed in, and actually see how much you really know. Funny how a west coast pump boat not blown, and no nitrous was the #1 qualifier in a 6 sec class against blown jets and hydros back east. Must be the donut power....Keep up the good work Chet, maybe someday you can get your own sitcom so we all could watch and laugh together.
HBjet
Hey HBjet...i'm still asking why you picked on me for suggesting bronze??? Are you going to pick apart mr. aggressors statements like you do mine?? Now i dont want your wife to answer..i want you to ok? (I must cause quite a stir at your house for you wife to badmouth me...i must be more important..heehee!) BTW, just for the record viewers...i sent hbjet some pics of my boat to post of it upside down to show i really have a boat and truly work on it.
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY SLICK:
Dave, welcome to the board. It's great having input from the manufacturing facet of things. Unfortunately you've been premised by a few blow hards.
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY FLATBROKE:
FYI, SteveM is JETMUGG. Thanks for joining the board, your presence is greatly needed not only from a manufacturer awarness standpoint (john west has been absolutely awesome in this area)but also to keep a small percentage of your clientel from negatively affecting the overall perception of your product.
thanks, chris.
You guys are unbelievable..I MEAN TRULY UNBELIEVABLE! who runs aggressor in here besides me and slowboat eh and a maybe one other i think,right???? COME ON NOW GUYS SPEAK UP! Slick? flatbroke?? I think those comments are directed towards us no?? Tell me i'm wrong now. Negative perception??? Where??????? I tell you an aggressor bowl is worth a few tenths and i'm a laughing stock. why recommend those "crappy pumps" right terrible buddist???.....i say try bronze with 1000hp and it's ARE YOU NUTS...you dont see any racers using bronze right hbjet??? 700hp with an aluminum aggressor impeller.... again,Dont make me laugh you say right HB? Am i really out of my mind though hbjet??? I'm all ears. Better tell Mr aggressor he is too cuz he has some interesting proof to state otherwise in his posts!. It's funny... you guys try to candycoat things when authority steps in and welcome all that you DONT AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL USE because there is no need to.(its been proven right?) Anyone who speaks otherwise(me) is full of it and the badguy when they arent' around. Shameful is all i can say.
Chet

[Slick]

Chet C, I wasn't directing my post towards anyone in general. To tell you the truth, I haven't even read half of this thread because it's too damn long.
No, I do not have any Agg. on my boat at the present time. However, when I decide to put on a split bowl, it'll be one of the three; Berk, Dom or Agg. Hopefully I can find one used. If I can't and don't want to wait for someone to part with a split bowl I'll go with whatever Jett Performance recommends. I know them to be truthful and fair from my own experiences and from other peoples. Not to mention he knows his stuff.
If I remember correctly, Dan did recommend an Aggressor 9 vein or if I wanted to spend the money to go with a Dom. Either way, it won't make that much of a difference with my 440hp motor. Even if I do bump up the hp to say 650hp - 700hp it probably wouldn't make a difference between the three. I don't race, nor do I have or plan to run a 1000+hp motor in my 21' open bow.
Additionally, the only reason I have a SS impeller is because my pump came off a Gale Banks 454 twin turbo motor running very high boost. Dynoed just over 1000hp.

[HammerDown]

Hey Chet,ya left me out!...I run an Aggressor (A) Imp,in a Berk Pump,and I like it.However I could only compare it to a Berk.Never tried any other Blades...then again I dont belive I see a reason to.Heck if someone has a Leg,A.T. or whatever they want to send me I'll check it out+ send it back.After setting back the pump I hope to also use a Aggressor short Droop,less drag out of the hole.I've spoken to Dave many times,never rushes me off the phone.Always gave good advice or info.I'am looking forward to seeing this new twin pump setup.