Reply With QuoteThats some funny shit cslol
The only thing missing is the chear for the 700 hp aluminum impeller.
[This message has been edited by schiada96 (edited November 19, 2001).]
I think Chet forgot to shave his legs again!
LOL...LOL...LOL... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Thats some funny shit cslol
The only thing missing is the chear for the 700 hp aluminum impeller.
[This message has been edited by schiada96 (edited November 19, 2001).]
I want to touch on something else Chet has mentioned which is about the bronze impeller. I just find it funny how Chet who favors Aggressor suggest a Bronze verses a Stainless Steel impeller and basicaly tells all of us we should of thought of that to save our fellow boater some cash. Well, I did some research today and found the only jet pump builder today offering a Bronze is Aggressor. How about that? Berkeley, Legend, American Turbine, and Dominator only offer Aluminum or Stainless. I also called some of Chets favorite shops for some more information. What I found out is that there is no performance value with a Bronze impeller and costs them almost the same to make as a Stainless, and the Bronze impeller is heavier then a Stainless. I also found out one of the reasons a Legend Stainless is considered the best out of the box impeller is because it is made out of stonger material then the rest. Aggressor does offer a Stainless impeller on there website, but I've been told by some of Chets favorite shops that Aggressor doesn't have access to a Stainless Steel foundary (RiverDave, your a metal guy, am I saying this right?) So there stainless is custom ordered and the shops I called didn't know if Aggressor has even sold any.
So no wonder why Chet suggested a Bronze, that is all his company, oop's, I mean Aggressor offers over the Aluminum. So Chet, don't feel bad for opening your mouth before using your brain, I know lots of people who do that. They all drive out boards.
HBjet
PS. For the record, I didn't call MPD at all for any of this Information and one of the pump MFG's I called even told me, one of the best pumps guys ever is Jack at MPD. That's got to say something about the work he does.
Give me an "M" Give me a "P" Give me a "D"...
[This message has been edited by HBjet (edited November 19, 2001).]
I also found out one of the reasons a Legend Stainless is considered the best out of the box impeller is because it is made out of stonger material then the rest. Aggressor does offer a Stainless impeller on there website, but I've been told by some of Chets favorite shops that Aggressor doesn't have access to a Stainless Steel foundary (RiverDave, your a metal guy, am I saying this right?) So there stainless is custom ordered and the shops I called didn't know if Aggressor has even sold any.
[This message has been edited by HBjet (edited November 19, 2001).][/B]
Hey bud I don't know.... If Agressor needs access to a Foundry they can give me a call! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif I'd be more then happy to take anyone one of these Jet manufacturers to the leading edge in technology... For the most part the entire marine industry is stuck in the 50's... Ask them when the last time they designed a new impeller was! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif I think you might be surprised... Ask them what there currently doing to make them better and I can't help myself here, I think you'll be laughing yor ass off I know I am.. Don't feel bad though it's not just the jet companies that are behind the times... It's the whole dam industry..
Randy, I just figured I'd chime in on one thing... There is alot of different types of Stainless steel. Some has better matl properties then others.. That's one of the bitchin things about castings is you have such a variety in matl's you can choose from! There are matl's out there that you could never put enough horsepower to them to matter.. All in the dollar kid, You ready to make some impellers?
If ANYONE out there has a "massaged" impeller that works really well in a variety of applications I'd be more then happy to model that into CAD for them and then produce as many as they want.. Why buy a product that has to be changed? Why not just produce it the right way from the get go? As some people in the drag boat racing world just found out, it's really not that hard to beat what most of what the current marine products have to offer... Just becuase a few old timers say there the best don't mean jack sh*t to this young kid... WAKE UP and smell the technology..
SLA
Quick Cast
SLS
Thermojet
There is four of the methods I have readily available to produce a pattern for investment casting where Geometry has absolutely nothing to do with the price and I can have the casting in your hands in whatever material you want in a week and a half.. I wonder where some of these guys R&D programs are? I've talked to a few and most of them said they haven't made a change since the early 80's... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif If you know any of them that are ACTUALLY doing R&D have them drop me a line and I'll show them something that'll put em approximately two light years ahead of the competition... Custom impellers anyone? Why Massage them when you can redesign and make whatever you want?
Sorry guys, didn't mean to "Spam" your forum here.. but for ANYONE to say that there doing R&D after some of the conversations I've had with the jet guys... C'mon now.. Takin some impeller in the back and shaving .050 off the diameter isn't R&D... Flow analysis is R&D. Finite Element Analysis (Stress Testing) is R&D... TRUE Engineering with test data gathered out in the field is R&D, not stamping a new name on a product that's literally been around for what 60-70 years? and changing it by a hair... I'm amazed anyone even argues over which one is better, when there is so much potential that hasn't even been "discovered" yet..
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited November 19, 2001).]
Eric, you owe me a beer! I laughed so hard that I knocked mine off the desk!!!! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
RD, Aggressor is the Marine Division of Major Brass Foundry,Inc.(MBF,Inc.) so they obviously have access to a foundry, maybe not one that handles stainless steel.
The impeller idea is a good one, but it would appear someone has beaten you to it. http://www.precisionjetdrive.com/ Haven't heard of any one who uses one, though.
What the jet pump industry needs is a SERIOUS effort at updating the designs. So far there have only been slight changes to the existing ones. I can't believe that all the design work done on PWC pumps couldn't somehow lead to better pumps for boats.
OldSquirt, what that guy is doing and what I'm talking about are on two COMPLETELY different levels.. That guy is still stuck in the OLDWAY of doing things.. Machining an impeller? What is that 4th or 5th Axis, and I don't even want to talk about how many thousands of dollars PER PART that would cost. Investment casting is definatley the way to go with an impeller.. Problem is how do you get the pattern with all that geometry etc... etc... New technologies is the answer.
http://www.arrk.com/Services/jpgs/quickfan.jpg That pattern takes a couple of hours to grow, plus it's accurate etc.. etc.. I'm not going to get into all the details but I will say the marine industry is a little behind the times. Here's a little cut and paste describing the pattern..
Quickcast delivers functional metal prototypes in advance of hard tooling at a fraction of the cost and time of traditional methods. Quasi-hollow Quickcast patterns are built on the SLA machines from photo-curable resin. When the liquid resin is drained from the interior regions of the part, a honeycomb pattern, which is approximately 80% hollow, is left. The open hatch interior of a Quickcast pattern is covered by a thin skin, preventing the ceramic slurry from penetrating the pattern. The smooth outer casing allows the internal collapse of the part without damage to the shell during the burnout phase of the investment casting process.
That's what I do for a living is SLA/Quick Cast etc...
That thing above is only 1 of the 4 methods at my employer to create castings just like impellers etc... Don't even get me started on plastic products we'll be here till Christmas.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited November 19, 2001).]
Eric, That first pic looks exactly like my greyhound, did you adopt/rescue? I was crackin' up!
Hey folks, good conversation and I am impressed with new casting technology.I think the preloader from dons pump service is in the area of new developements. I have a billet aluminum A impeller from Precision that worked well. i had a blown 468 that would turn it at 6400 rpm in my old sanger.I still have that impeller.It was hard anodized and really looked nice.i have upgraded the pump to a stainless AA with preloader and ratchet.This was done to accomodate a blown 572. I sold the sanger,built a 19ft sprint from a repo'd mold and will put the 468/a impeller into this hull.I am looking for a v-drive to stick the 572 in.I agree with the pump R&D, or lack there of.Someone needs to write a book on this subject! Some large company like agressor or american turbine may be doing some radical research that they haven't yet perfected or ready to market.Lets hope they try, as most of us lack the resources.
RD2 I'm with you! I've been posting how the pump guys are lagging technology for some time now. So we need lake lice to show us the way?? Come on now!
On another note...but along the same lines. I emailed Aggressor to get their pump rpm vs hp charts and got this response:
"Jerry, The Best at this time I can say - is take a berkeley or any other chart and adjust 1 Cut off to get to aggressor. I.E. Berkeley "AA" 375 H.P say it shows 4200 RPMs. Aggressor "A" will match up on the RPMs. Even with the Cut size of "A" vs "AA" your hole shot will improve and top
MPH will go up. At 450-500 H.P. you want to change to Mag.Bronze which should endure untill you get to Top Fuel. A further example of the "aggressiveness" of our impeller is we ran a 9 1/8" large Dia. impeller in a Top Fuel 3500 H/P and the best he could pull it was 7800 @ 155 MPH vs the
8500 RPM wanted."
Which leaves me wondering if they even have charts? I'll keep trying.
I also contacted Legend the same day, and in response they promptly sent me a chart for their impellers in the mail. I appreciated that.
jer
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