BBC rocker arm options

[Jet City]

I'm upgrading to a solid roller cam this winter and would like to upgrade my rocker arms as well. It appears the shaft systems are superior to the stud type, but of coarse more costly. The two shaft systems I'm really looking at are Jesel Sportsman and Yella Terra (T&D is out of my budget), does anyone have experiences good or bad with either of these? If I end up staying with the stud type I was considering Comp pro-mag rockers, ARP studs and Crane gold girdles, if anybody has a pro/con view for shaft vs stud, I would also be intersted in hearing what you have to say. My application is v-drive lake hot-rod that may see 6800 (ish) rpm on occasion.

[Moneypitt]

The shaft rockers are the latest craze among hipo builders. But as you said, considerably more $$. For a "Lake hotrod" the stud type rollers, or for that matter the ol' stock steel stampings are more than enough. The shaft deals are state of the art stuff and all the high reving, high dollar builders are using them. 6800 once in a while doesn't need the extra expense. A good set of girdles, and studs will do the same thing for your application...........MY .02.....MP
PS I can remember when the "new roller rockers" first came out, everyone wanted them, but their relieabilty left something to be desired. The stockers would out last them 4 to 1..........

[steelcomp]

Shaft rockers have been around for a LONG time, and if you can afford them are the only way to go.
The newer individual mount shaft rocker systems (sportsman style) are offered as a budget minded approach to shaft mount rockers, but really don't offer the same advantages as the one piece set ups. Unless you have really high spring pressures, which for your application you don't really need, you can stick with stud mounted rollers. Don't buy cheap...the set up you described would work fime IMO BUT...and this is an important BUT...call Comp Cams and ask if there is a recommended "not to exceed spring pressure" for those rockers. This is important as there is often a limit that they don't disclose in their catalogue or adds. Although guaranteed, and a nice rocker, they are still a "budget" rocker, as compared to their Hi Tech Stainless. With even mild roller spring pressures, a good girdle is a must, along with ARP studs...if you're running the Crane four bar girdle, I'd think about changing to a three bar style that ties the int. rockers and ex. rockers together. The four bar is OK...better than nothing, but the 3 bar or even the one piece (harder to install) is definately better.
Stock rockers are the FIRST thing that should get thrown away, and are definately not "more than enough". If you tried to run a stock steel rocker on your solid roller cam, you'd have some serious valve train damage...if you could even turn your motor over. Minimum you'd have to change to long slot rockers, and that might not allow for your lift. Plus with roller springs, those rockers would flex like crazy, and they're really inconsistant as far as ratio goes. They have way too much friction, and would probably burn up at the ball pivot, as well.

[Jet City]

Thanks for the input guys, it sounds like a good stud system is the way to go for my application and budget. In regard to the comments about the 4 bar girdle, I was just reading about a 2 bar girdle that looks really ridgid, Webster Industries makes it (GoFastRacer had very positive comments in a previous gearhead post), this looks to be a really nice girdle.
SC, your comments about the pro-mag rockers make me leary, I know it may sound like I'm trying to split hairs, but I will have quite a bit invested into this solid roller project, just want to make the best choices I can and not have any problems, are there any rockers that would be prefered over the pro-mags? Nobody seems to be having any troubles with the Crane gold rockers, how about Scorpion?

[steelcomp]

Thanks for the input guys, it sounds like a good stud system is the way to go for my application and budget. In regard to the comments about the 4 bar girdle, I was just reading about a 2 bar girdle that looks really ridgid, Webster Industries makes it (GoFastRacer had very positive comments in a previous gearhead post), this looks to be a really nice girdle.
SC, your comments about the pro-mag rockers make me leary, I know it may sound like I'm trying to split hairs, but I will have quite a bit invested into this solid roller project, just want to make the best choices I can and not have any problems, are there any rockers that would be prefered over the pro-mags? Nobody seems to be having any troubles with the Crane gold rockers, how about Scorpion?
I'm not sayiong there's anything wrong with the Comp Pro Mags...just check them out. They might be totally fine. No splitting hairs, here. You're doing the right thing. The hours you spend finding out this info will be invaluable. This is how we learn this stuff, and it's OK to learn from other's mistakes. No sense in re designing the wheel.
I'm in the same boat you're in...the last thing I need to buy for my 496 is valve train. It'll be 820-840hp n/a, and although I haven't had any problems with them, I'm hesitant to get aluminum rockers. The Crane golds are sort of the "standard", and there is the "wide body". Lunati makes a great alum rocker, and I think The Comp rocker is ok. The Comp Hi Tech stainless is indestructable and rebuildable (as is the ProMagnum) and so is the Crower stainles. These are used more for endurance, but in your app I would consider them. I think I'm going to go with the shaft rockers, but I'm still in the parts buying stage, and in no hurry. If you want an aluminum rocker that's expensive, but really the chit, look up millerrockers.com. Jim Miller makes some of the finest aluminum valve train available. I think I'm going to use his shaft system.
I wouldn't go with Scorpions, or any of the other off shore brands. You will get what you pay for.
The only other possibility for aluminum, if they still make them, is Isky. They used to (may still) make this huge blue endurance aluminum rocker. I think Edelbrock made a similar one in red, too.
As far as girdles go, I look for the fact that they tie ALL the rockers together, and then ease of use. There's a lot of nice hardware out there for that app. These guys on the boards like Fiat, Go Fast, and others who are racers have better input on that than I do as far as user friendly set ups. They'll tell you.
Hope you're not totally confused, now.
steel

[Jet City]

SC, I think I'm far less confused now than when I started this thread thats for sure. I'm in no burning hurry to round up these parts as I have all winter, but I do enjoy the learning process (and the wrenching). The Scorpions are made in USA, I keep seeing some very credible builders using the Scorpions on their crate engines, here's a 1000hp Pfaff crate that comes with Scorpions http://www.pfaffengines.com/1000sc.shtml , they seem very nice from what I see and read.
At any rate, I think I'm getting the picture that most of the good qaulity, name brand $200-300 rockers have proven themselves reliable in applications far beyond the scope of anything I plan to build. I guess the thought of anything leeding to a roller cam/lifter failure got me a little bit nervous.
Scott

[steelcomp]

SC, I think I'm far less confused now than when I started this thread thats for sure. I'm in no burning hurry to round up these parts as I have all winter, but I do enjoy the learning process (and the wrenching). The Scorpions are made in USA, I keep seeing some very credible builders using the Scorpions on their crate engines, here's a 1000hp Pfaff crate that comes with Scorpions http://www.pfaffengines.com/1000sc.shtml , they seem very nice from what I see and read.
At any rate, I think I'm getting the picture that most of the good qaulity, name brand $200-300 rockers have proven themselves reliable in applications far beyond the scope of anything I plan to build. I guess the thought of anything leeding to a roller cam/lifter failure got me a little bit nervous.
Scott
There ya go!! I stand corrected on the Scorpions.
Look up www.millerrockers.com anyway. There's a ton of pages there that you can learn from regarding rocker geometry. I've been in this business a long time, and even some of the best engine builders still don't get the idea of correct geometry. The info on Jim MIller's site is really good info, and written very well. You'll like it.
Good luck.

[Jet City]

Its interseting you bring up the Millers, these must be them? I'll check out their site, thanks for the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

[steelcomp]

Its interseting you bring up the Millers, these must be them? I'll check out their site, thanks for the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW
Yes, those are them, but an older style. You can get them from Comp Products for $199.00. I asked Jim Miller about them and why so cheap (for his rockers) and he said they were a close out design that were being sold in lots to certain buyers. The newer design is an improvement, and he said a better rocker. I doubt there's anything wrong with these...it was about a year ago I talked to him and don't remember exactly what he said. Definately check out his web site.

[Moose]

Nobody seems to be having any troubles with the Crane gold rockers, how about Scorpion?
I ran the Crane golds in my 489 BBC and had one of the cups that hold the needle bearings in, break and filled the motor with all those little bearings :angry2: . I checked the other rockers and found three more that were very lose. I sent them back to Crane and they sent me new ones that I sold and bought Comp rollers and no problems yet .
Moose