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  1. #1
    ChetCapoli
    [QUOTE] Originally posted by ULTRA28:
    How about if everybody just stops the personal attacks around here and we all just go back to talking about boats and pumps?
    Yes ultra i agree. Lets start by having our buddy randy answer my original question

  2. #2
    ROZ
    Dude, You crack me up.

  3. #3
    HBjet
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    You like berkeley and i like aggressor...pretty much the bottom line right? Difference is, i'm not afraid to try the berk stuff and see what happens. You guys try aggressor?...dont think so...my question would be why not..... all to gain and nothing to lose i always say.
    Chet
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    You know what hb, if memory serves i asked you about all this testing that was done with your boat with what works and doesnt months ago. You never came back with numbers or facts or anything though..so? I'm listening? What happened with your boat when you used aggressor???? Again, i'm listening? Another thing, why not tell me my boat will run faster with anything other than what i have now while your at it. Again...I'm listening? Not to get off the subject, remember i asked you to call some shops? If memory serves, you mentioned calling dons pump but you never mentioned what the others said. Lets take hi-tech for example. His website is pretty plastered with aggressor, did he tell you something you didnt want to hear or what??? What did they say?
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    I have a 18' Rally sport v bottom(delta pad) and i run a 522chev (estimate 650hp @ 6400rpm on pump gas)with a berk pump,factory berk JR (6deg) intake with shoe, aggressor "b" impeller, 9vien bowl with droop,wedge, and no place diverter. Best run was 80.2gps at 5700 with hockey stick hook in the bottom.(working on that as we speak). This year i'm going to a stock intake (4deg) with shoe and staightening the bottom and using a diverter. Been told to expect gains of at least 5 to 7mph, quite possibly 10mph(hopefully). If i can spin it up to 6400 maybe more? Who knows. I never really got a good baseline with a berk bowl because my pump(everything) was really messed up when i got the boat(maybe i should try it for the record eh?) I did though, put them side by side before i made my choice and studied them carefully
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    As i said before i have close to 700hp. The boat ran 60 the first time i took it out with my motor. It felt glued to the water. I knew something was wrong so i looked underneath and discovered the intake grate was in backwards.(i'm sure it was that way for awhile before i had it). That was good for almost 8mph but the pump was cavitating from a dead stop, that's when i rebuilt it using aggressor stuff. Then i fine tuned it and went 80.
    Now Chet, I have stated before, I did not need to do any Aggressor bowl testing because a professional who has done the testing with the exact same hull as I have told me there is no difference. Don't get me wrong, I did ask Jack about getting an Aggressor bowl, but the price of a new bowl, plus cleaning it up is more then converting my JC to a JG and blue printing it. So why are you knocking me to spend more money? I even looked at an Aggressor impeller next to a Berkeley and a Legend, all factory direct and they were all untouched. The Berkeley looked like crap, the Aggressor was just a little better, and the Legend was a lot better, but for max performance the Legend would need a lot LESS work. I called Don's pump and I believe the other was HI-Performance. Don's said for sure not to use Aggressor, they were all junk. HI-PERFORMANCE said Aggressor is still new to the pump business, and they just need to do more homework and didn't recommend them. Oh, I also heard there are a lot of warranty returns on Aggressor impellers because the fins would crack off. When looking at the impeller, you could see where it was going to break, just a matter of time. So, for the record, I didn't need to test my boat because it has already been done. Your hull, I don't know? You said you tried a new Berk bowl since your original bowl was all messed up and you found the Aggressor was better For You. Chet, you claim in one of the above quotes that when you rebuilt the pump with Aggressor stuff, you had a gain of 12mph. (60mph + 8mph from the intake grate + pump rebuild = 80mph) So if you had that much of a gain from the rebuild using the Aggressor stuff, what were your results with a rebuild using the Berkeley Stuff? If you didn't test it (Which you sound like you have) anyone can tell you that 1. Your original Berkeley was so thrashed that any rebuild kit you use you will see a big difference. 2. With a pump that thrashed, you chose Aggressor because of a cost issue, not a performance one, and you comparing bowls (your thrashed Berkeley to a new Aggressor) you will totally see a difference. So basically, you have only tried one solution not realizing that with your pump so thrashed, any solution would give you the same results, and since your a do-it-yourselfer guy, and you got the boat for next to nothing, your going to use the solution which has the best cost/performance ratio, which happens to be Aggressor. So Chet, post the numbers, you said you did the testing between the two, I told you before I have not and I don't need to. Be happy you will always be one up on me (in your mind) The truth about your ideas has been played out here so much, you aren't going to fool anyone but yourself.
    HBjet
    I'm waiting...
    [This message has been edited by HBjet (edited January 21, 2002).]

  4. #4
    OneBadScorpion
    Originally posted by HBjet:
    Now Chet, I have stated before, I did not need to do any Aggressor bowl testing because a professional who has done the testing with the exact same hull as I have told me there is no difference. Don't get me wrong, I did ask Jack about getting an Aggressor bowl, but the price of a new bowl, plus cleaning it up is more then converting my JC to a JG and blue printing it. So why are you knocking me to spend more money? I even looked at an Aggressor impeller next to a Berkeley and a Legend, all factory direct and they were all untouched. The Berkeley looked like crap, the Aggressor was just a little better, and the Legend was a lot better, but for max performance the Legend would need a lot LESS work. I called Don's pump and I believe the other was HI-Performance. Don's said for sure not to use Aggressor, they were all junk. HI-PERFORMANCE said Aggressor is still new to the pump business, and they just need to do more homework and didn't recommend them. Oh, I also heard there are a lot of warranty returns on Aggressor impellers because the fins would crack off. When looking at the impeller, you could see where it was going to break, just a matter of time. So, for the record, I didn't need to test my boat because it has already been done. Your hull, I don't know? You said you tried a new Berk bowl since your original bowl was all messed up and you found the Aggressor was better For You. Chet, you claim in one of the above quotes that when you rebuilt the pump with Aggressor stuff, you had a gain of 12mph. (60mph + 8mph from the intake grate + pump rebuild = 80mph) So if you had that much of a gain from the rebuild using the Aggressor stuff, what were your results with a rebuild using the Berkeley Stuff? If you didn't test it (Which you sound like you have) anyone can tell you that 1. Your original Berkeley was so thrashed that any rebuild kit you use you will see a big difference. 2. With a pump that thrashed, you chose Aggressor because of a cost issue, not a performance one, and you comparing bowls (your thrashed Berkeley to a new Aggressor) you will totally see a difference. So basically, you have only tried one solution not realizing that with your pump so thrashed, any solution would give you the same results, and since your a do-it-yourselfer guy, and you got the boat for next to nothing, your going to use the solution which has the best cost/performance ratio, which happens to be Aggressor. So Chet, post the numbers, you said you did the testing between the two, I told you before I have not and I don't need to. Be happy you will always be one up on me (in your mind) The truth about your ideas has been played out here so much, you aren't going to fool anyone but yourself.
    HBjet
    I'm waiting...
    [This message has been edited by HBjet (edited January 21, 2002).]
    Bravo.....HBJet. Well spoken, well said!!

  5. #5
    LVjetboy
    HBjet, I run a Berkeley...but certainly am no an expert on pump brands. As with Detroit, loyalty is often misplaced and more than they deserve I feel. But one thing I can say for Aggressor, is they're involved with some new ideas and Dave (from Aggressor) has taken time to post on these boards. That's worth a lot in my book. And this is more than I can say for the other pump manufacturers. Where are they? And what new things are they doing to improve our sport? If they continue to ride past accomplishments, they're bound to become a part of history.
    jer
    [This message has been edited by LVjetboy (edited January 22, 2002).]

  6. #6
    Unchained
    I don't care if someone is running a Berkely, Dominator, or Jacuzzi pump or if they made their own from 5" galvanized ducting from Home Depot.

  7. #7
    HBjet
    Originally posted by LVjetboy:
    But one thing I can say for Aggressor, is they're involved with some new ideas and Dave (from Aggressor) has taken time to post on these boards. That's worth a lot in my book. And this is more than I can say for the other pump manufacturers.
    True, they are involved in some new ideas, but like I've been told, they still need to do some more homework. I also think that is great for Dave from Aggressor to come on here. Does that tell me I'll buy his products because he has taken the time to be on the boards? NO! Will I learn more? YES, but his products don't get any better just by posting on here. I was fortunate to look at an Aggressor, Berkeley, and Legend impellers all side by side. Once you do, you will see for yourself.
    HBjet

  8. #8
    ChetCapoli
    Originally posted by HBjet:
    Now Chet, I have stated before, I did not need to do any Aggressor bowl testing because a professional who has done the testing with the exact same hull as I have told me there is no difference.
    <<<<< Man hb this is long! I started this new thread to keep it short and sweet and to the point but not you! Anyways..here goes. So every bowl and every impeller resulted in NO CHANGE is what your telling me? Care to give exact numbers since your so thorough? Ought to have them right there beside you.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Don't get me wrong, I did ask Jack about getting an Aggressor bowl, but the price of a new bowl, plus cleaning it up is more then converting my JC to a JG and blue printing it. So why are you knocking me to spend more money?
    <<<< i'm knocking you because that is alot of money to convert what essentially is a $25.00 bowl when you can have current technology for roughly 30% more. Why not even just by a used JG bowl for maybe a couple hundred??( i saw a used one for $50bucks last year) As you have said, if this conversion is soooo ggggreat, why isnt everybody doing it then??>>>>>>
    I even looked at an Aggressor impeller next to a Berkeley and a Legend, all factory direct and they were all untouched. The Berkeley looked like crap, the Aggressor was just a little better, and the Legend was a lot better, but for max performance the Legend would need a lot LESS work.
    <<<<<< well hb, i just tonight took the time and looked at all the above and while the legend was a used impeller,it looks a little meatier then the others(i'll give you that)I dont think its any better(meatier yes, better no). Besides, if they are so great, why dont you see or hear more about them??? Aside from you and a few others on here, i hear ZIPPO! I wouldnt say the berk looked like CRAP either.(not as nice as the other two)..it looks like a factory impeller. You know the ones that have been used forever.( i can see rick at CP when he sells his stuff, "well sir..(clearing his throat)...ummmm......when you buy my impeller here see...aside from paying good money for it your going to have to REWORK THE WHOLE THING before you install it to get max perf...aside from that your berk will run as new, understand?) Your just plain goofy hb you know that?? Now as for the "one and only impeller"... hmmmmmm...i'd like to know what does "just a little better than crap" look like anyways??? All i see is a lean, mean, black powdercoated, ready to run impeller(lakeboat use) with blades that are as sharp as they need to be...a blunt 1/32 edge(any sharper and they would cut you finger) I didnt know when you pay good money for brand new parts, you have to PAY EXTRA to TOTALLY reconstruct them so they work right. Dont get me wrong, if your racing and every little bit counts then i'm sure you could fine tune it somehow but in a regular HP lake boat...... "just a little better than crap"????? Who are you BS'in HB??>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I called Don's pump and I believe the other was HI-Performance. Don's said for sure not to use Aggressor, they were all junk. HI-PERFORMANCE said Aggressor is still new to the pump business, and they just need to do more homework and didn't recommend them.
    <<<<<<<<< AH..i remember now, you did say you called hi performance boats in michigan. (Word has it he runs a hydro you know..maybe it's slowboat in disguise?) Forgive me but i thought you said you didnt get an answer? I thought i mentioned you call hi-tech performance.(hmmm, i said inducer and jetaway remember?) You know the one whose website is plastered with aggressor from one end to the other? Afraid to hear what he has to say HB??? From what i noticed on the other board a while back that guy has a 23FT tunnel that runs 110mph with aggressor stuff. TWENTY THREE FEET HB! TWENTY THREE!. 110mph naturally asperated lake boat! Now THAT is impressive, period! He must be new like aggressor is new eh? BTW, what do you consider "new" in the pump biz? 2yr? 5yr?10yr? Too new for this testing that was done on your boat maybe????? Tell me tell me tell me!........>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Oh, I also heard there are a lot of warranty returns on Aggressor impellers because the fins would crack off. When looking at the impeller, you could see where it was going to break, just a matter of time.
    <<<<<<<<<<<< yes i HEARD that too! My next one is going to be free WHEN and IF it breaks or cracks. HMMM..i'm looking at my 2yr 700hp "b" aluminum impeller drinking my coffee right now bud. I'm lookin......lookin.....and... i see.... NOTHING! Ready to go back in and GRANADE! (my A$$ to 90mph that is)>>>>>>>>>
    So, for the record, I didn't need to test my boat because it has already been done.
    <<<<<<<<<< As stated above hb, what were the RESULTS with the aggressor?(or any for that matter) My original question incase you forgot. I want numbers boy! numbers!>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Your hull, I don't know? You said you tried a new Berk bowl since your original bowl was all messed up and you found the Aggressor was better For You. Chet, you claim in one of the above quotes that when you rebuilt the pump with Aggressor stuff, you had a gain of 12mph. (60mph + 8mph from the intake grate + pump rebuild = 80mph) So if you had that much of a gain from the rebuild using the Aggressor stuff, what were your results with a rebuild using the Berkeley Stuff?
    <<<<<<<<<<<<< No HB, i never said i tried a berk bowl or berk stuff, everything was done aggressor. I will though just for you. FYI, i had a JC bowl that was beat up but i wanted a split bowl. BTW, I'll sell you that bowl so you can do that magical conversion if you want.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you didn't test it (Which you sound like you have) anyone can tell you that 1. Your original Berkeley was so thrashed that any rebuild kit you use you will see a big difference. 2. With a pump that thrashed, you chose Aggressor because of a cost issue, not a performance one, and you comparing bowls (your thrashed Berkeley to a new Aggressor) you will totally see a difference. So basically, you have only tried one solution not realizing that with your pump so thrashed, any solution would give you the same results, and since your a do-it-yourselfer guy, and you got the boat for next to nothing, your going to use the solution which has the best cost/performance ratio, which happens to be Aggressor.
    <<<<<<<<<<<< GREAT observation rahndy, To bad your a little off on your asessment. Granted the price was right but i looked at two JG bowls(one massaged,one stock),one good JC(one you love),my bowl(JC)and a domninator(stock) before i made my decision.(scientific "bowls on the floor" study right? LOL.) I could have bought any one but if you fully understand the theory behind it, you realize it's the better bowl. That's why i chose it. Performance. Besides everything your going to do to that JC(and pretty much every other bowl) is already done with aggressor.>>>>>>>>>>
    So Chet, post the numbers, you said you did the testing between the two, I told you before I have not and I don't need to.
    <<<<<< I let you know on that when i do it this season my friend, good or bad. I cant wait actually, love being the underdog you know. As far as you not needing to...of course not. Like you said it was already done right? SO THEN, WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS THAT I POLITELY ASKED FOR?>>>>>>
    Be happy you will always be one up on me
    <<<<<<<<< ummmm....right now hb it's about 10...this season should be 20 unless you start working on making your boat go faster. Oops that's right everythings already been done. GEEZ to be stuck at 70....what a shame hb! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I'm waiting...AGAIN. Short and sweet this time k???
    [This message has been edited by HBjet (edited January 21, 2002).]

  9. #9
    HBjet
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli: So every bowl and every impeller resulted in NO CHANGE is what your telling me? Care to give exact numbers since your so thorough? Ought to have them right there beside you
    Incase you missed the first part of my post I didn’t need to get the numbers or do the tests. When I paid to have my pump worked on part of what I’m paying for is knowledge from the person who is doing the work, and who has done the testing. So stopping asking you sound stupid.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli: I'm knocking you because that is alot of money to convert what essentially is a $25.00 bowl when you can have current technology for roughly 30% more. Why not even just by a used JG bowl for maybe a couple hundred??( i saw a used one for $50bucks last year) As you have said, if this conversion is soooo ggggreat, why isnt everybody doing it then?
    $25.00 for a JC bowl would right if the veins were thrashed and the Nozzle O-Ring would have made a groove deep enough that no matter what you did, you will have blow-by and therefore lose performance. Want to know something Chet? The veins on my JC which is sitting at MPD were in pretty good shape but the nozzle has that deep groove in it from the O-Ring. I was told that the bowl is useless performance wise. My options were to A buy a new split bowl B Buy a used split bowl but most likely it will need to be blueprinted C Or I can convert my original JC to a JG for less then the first two options (and it includes blueprinting) but it will have to be something I do in the off season because they are too busy during the summer. Another benefit is that a converted JG will perform better in the racing environment verses an original JG do to the longer, straighter veins giving the exiting water a straighter flow. So if I do put some monster HP in my boat like 700-900hp I will already be one up.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    well hb, i just tonight took the time and looked at all the above and while the legend was a used impeller,it looks a little meatier then the others(i'll give you that)I dont think its any better(meatier yes, better no).
    Well, used isn’t new, so are you comparing apples to apples, or is it impellers to impellers?
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    I wouldnt say the berk looked like CRAP either.(not as nice as the other two)..it looks like a factory impeller. You know the ones that have been used forever.
    Well, if you don’t think it looked like crap, I at least know where your quality standard is. Yes, they will work in a stock power stock jet boat fine. When you start putting more power to the pump, do you want a stock out of the box impeller? It will work, but aren’t you the one who said “don’t you want to go faster HB?” so now your telling me the stock Berkeley or Aggressor will do the same for me as a worked one would? You don’t make sense.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    A blunt 1/32 edge
    You know what’s funny, that little edge you see at the front of the impeller, it actually hurts performance causing the water to flow over the leading edge of the impeller and landing a little further back. The way you want to cut the water is with the sharpest knife-edge you can. 1/32 is big compared the knife cuts I’ve seen on a Legend, but it’s your boat so do what you want to it.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    I didnt know when you pay good money for brand new parts, you have to PAY EXTRA to TOTALLY reconstruct them so they work right
    You shouldn’t of bought Aggressor then…
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    AH..i remember now, you did say you called hi performance boats in michigan.
    You told me to call Don’s Pump Service and HI-PERFORMANCE so I did and now you want me to call another shop? Dude, I think I’ve done enough for you, I actually did make the calls, but you haven’t. You get back to me after you call MPD, until then you have no grounds for me to call another pump shop when the first two I called told me different from what your claiming.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    23FT tunnel that runs 110mph with aggressor stuff. 110mph naturally asperated lake boat! Now THAT is impressive, period! He must be new like aggressor is new eh? BTW, what do you consider "new" in the pump biz? 2yr? 5yr?10yr? Too new for this testing that was done on your boat maybe?????
    When I said NEW, I was referring to purchasing a new pump (as in never been used before) YES! That is impressive, so remind me, was the Aggressor pump (and everything else Aggressor) all out of the box, directly bolted on, no modifications whatsoever? I highly doubt it.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    yes i HEARD that too! My next one is going to be free WHEN and IF it breaks or cracks. HMMM..i'm looking at my 2yr 700hp "b" aluminum impeller drinking my coffee right now bud. I'm lookin......lookin.....and... i see.... NOTHING!
    Well I should have figured since your standard of quality is lower then most your judgment would be out of wack too. See, for your impeller to crack, it has to be in the boat and running. When sitting on the workbench while your boat is upside down and your pump is apart you can’t really apply what I've said can you?
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    No HB, i never said i tried a berk bowl or berk stuff, everything was done aggressor. I will though just for you. FYI, i had a JC bowl that was beat up but i wanted a split bowl.
    I rest my case and refer to one of my previous statements Your original Berkeley was so thrashed that any rebuild kit you use you will see a big difference. You have no grounds for comparison Chet.
    Originally posted by ChetCapoli:
    I could have bought any one but if you fully understand the theory behind it, you realize it's the better bowl. That's why i chose it. Performance.
    Lets not forget the main reason, PRICE. Kind of like you recommending the bronze impeller to save money remember?
    Well Chet, good luck with the project boat "The Gray Battleship" Let us know how it runs even if you don’t test the different bowls. I really have to hear how those extended strakes are going affect your performance.
    HBjet
    [This message has been edited by HBjet (edited January 23, 2002).]

  10. #10
    Blown509Liberator
    Here is that pic of the "110mph" 23' er
    http://www.teshio.com/JetBoat/images/Kustom_Kraft.jpg
    Per the spec sheet on VJB. http://www.teshio.com/JetBoat/kuston_kraft.htm :
    1994 Kustom Kraft 23' tunnel
    Built by Jimmie Dominick of Lubbock, Texas. Only 6 of these were built just before the company went out of business. Specs; 23' Tunnel, 572 Cubic In. Chevrolet Pro Stock Block, Running Holley 2000 cfm multiport EFI, Hi-Tech Performance Stage III Roller Cam and Rockers, Dart Aluminum Heads by Indy Cyl Heads, Undertransom Bassett's, JETAWAY, Prime-A-Jet, Ultimate Wear Ring, American Turbine 9 1/2" Pump/Aggressor Impeller & 9 Vein Bowl, HT Extension/ATJ Diverter, & MSD Ignition. Boat runs over 100 mph on Unleaded Premium on a good day.
    My question is where do they measure that hull? It look just like my 21' and if you measure to the tip of one of my sponson it is 23' ....
    MikeW
    Ps.Aggressor admits to having a casting problem with there older impellers. Dave has recalled and made good on them. I still prefure a legend myself. 5000(legend) vs 5200(Aggressor) rpms and the same speed from a "A" cut. Just my .02.
    PSS. what happened to "How about if everybody just stops the personal attacks around here and we all just go back to talking about boats and pumps?"
    [This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 23, 2002).]

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