excessive noise at the sandbar--HELP

[propellator]

That's the mind set that their counting on, sometimes it's better to stand and fight for your privledges if you want to keep them

[DaddyMack]

"Wakeless Speed" is moving and is specifically defined in the statutes.
Its not against the law as far as the boating regs go... and like I said... I would fight it.. hate cops that hassle (I happen to be part time Judge too)...
BUT I haven't seen the laws for the city of Havasu...so there could be something in their statutes...However, My buddy's attorney in Havasu says no such law exists. His attorney, who has been around for quite some time there believes it will be thrown out.
Just a reason to hassle. Hopefully between the new mayor and a new Police Chief (didn't they get one of those too?) things might operate more like a tourist destination. They should take some lessons from the Sturgis Cops on how to handle the crowds and the courts there on how to handle paying (and returning) visitors.

[86 catalina]

That is why havi and parker suck now.To many police to many boats to many drunks to much rough water to many tough guys.Any palce where a chick goes to jail for flipin a titty is absouletly wack..... I still go to the river and dont deal with any of that bull shit/.

[Boatcop]

I would like to have any information regarding how to defend against United States Fish and Wildlife Service citation for excessive noise. When I recieved the citation several boaters including law enforcement people approached me and they disscused the paticulars of why and how the citation given did not conform to the method used by the officers issuing the ticket.
The US Fish and Wildlife Service placed noise retrictions in effect throughout the National Wildlife Refuge. There aren't any "spelled out" noise regulations in Federal Statutes, so they rely on the Governing Laws and sound measurement methods of the State. Now that could either be AZ regulations or CA regulations. Some courts may take the word of the officer that a boat is creating "excessive or unusual noise". A boat running with no muffling devices installed would have a hard time arguing that they weren't creating excessive noise. It all depends on the Federal Magistrate.
Regarding sitting on the gunwale, or hanging your feet over the edge of the boat at wakeless speed. It may not be specified in regulation that this is illegal per se, but then again, neither is riding on the hood or roof of a motor vehicle in motion. But a cop will still pull you over for it as being an unsafe action.
The law does state it is illegal to operate a vessel in a careless, reckless or negligent manner. Loosely defined, this means that any operation that has the potential to injure persons or damage property is prohibited. All we have to do is cite cases where persons were injured from that specific action to prove our case.
We have no shortage of accident reports showing that actions such as those do actually cause injuries.

[DaddyMack]

Good points boat cop.. certainly depends on what they were doing at the time though and if people are truly acting in an unsafe manner they should get cited..just don't like to see such ambiguous statutes used as a catch all. As far as the noise goes its something like 86 decibels at 50 ft. according to AZ regs... but there are no rules how that is measured i.e. with complete silence except for boat etc.... as far as my buddy goes the one kicker is that he has an open bow and the kids were in the seats with their feet over.

[Kilrtoy]

The US Fish and Wildlife Service placed noise retrictions in effect throughout the National Wildlife Refuge. There aren't any "spelled out" noise regulations in Federal Statutes, so they rely on the Governing Laws and sound measurement methods of the State. Now that could either be AZ regulations or CA regulations. Some courts may take the word of the officer that a boat is creating "excessive or unusual noise".
.
Now that BC has spoken, I watched F and G all summer sit at the bar and then get people who were under full power , 3/4 power 1/2 power pass by and then they would chase them down. This is not how the law is written. You must be at idle and I had a friend bring in the Ca and Az law, articulate in court the errors of the said administered test and win.
Good luck

[MONEYFURNOTHIN]

I am a man of principle but i just paid the 110 dollars for the noise ticket. There are alot of people talking about "fight it" but for the lost wages and headache, ill let my principles lie on this one. Did i mention i got my noise ticket driving my outboard equiped boat? Pick and choose your battels wisely! It is a B.S. ticket, but so is a seat belt ticket, tinted window, helmet..... you get the point. As far as the bowrider ticket.... well i have some expierence with that one to! My advice is not to have people hanging body parts over the side of your boat while its moving. Sure you could fight it, but your not gonna. SUCKS doesnt it!

[Boatcop]

Miguel,
All AZ requires is a minimum of 50'. No boat or engine speed is specified. Above 86db @ 50' or more is a violation.
How far is 50'? From the Judge's bench to the last row in the court room. I know. I measured it.
As far as outboards getting nabbed, I suppose it's possible, if the engine is tricked and/or air box removed/modified. But personally I've never had the opportunity to measure one or even give one a second look. I believe it might be an "affirmative defense" if it was a stock whacker.
I do know, however, that some of the Formula 1 outboards are pretty loud. Maybe I'll hang out at Blue Water next weekend and test some just for baseline info.

[Kilrtoy]

Miguel,
All AZ requires is a minimum of 50'. No boat or engine speed is specified. Above 86db @ 50' or more is a violation.
How far is 50'? From the Judge's bench to the last row in the court room. I know. I measured it.
As far as outboards getting nabbed, I suppose it's possible, if the engine is tricked and/or air box removed/modified. But personally I've never had the opportunity to measure one or even give one a second look. I believe it might be an "affirmative defense" if it was a stock whacker.
I do know, however, that some of the Formula 1 outboards are pretty loud. Maybe I'll hang out at Blue Water next weekend and test some just for baseline info.
I see, I was under the impression they had to be stopped.... I stand corrected.
50 to the last pew, damn that is a small room
50' in L.A. is to the defendants table :boxed:

[propellator]

I went to federal magistrate court (in Kingman) for excessive noise today. Here are your options, pay the fine, plea bargin, plead not guilty. Pay the fine- give money no record all is forgiven (untill next time-you know the routine! the sliding scale), plea bargin-try to negotiate a lessor offence with a uniform that has such bad breath you can't sit in the same room with him, but the fine is the same, plead not guilty- LISTEN UP HERE, if you plead not guilty now the offence becomes CRIMINAL and if found guilty you face A MAX OF $2,500.00 fine and or 6 months in jail FOR LOUD PIPES? Then the judge has the audasity to ask during his explanation has anyone threated you into pleading guilty. NOW HERES MY POINT, THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY, YOU CAN'T WIN, THIS IS NOT ABOUT RIGHT OR WRONG, YOUR BEING SHOOK DOWN!!!!
This attitude is going to expand to other offences on the river in the refuge (read the federal laws for the river area IE 25 mph not currently enforced, sound famillar), they don't want us there anymore. Sound familiar you duners?
They don't want us in the channel.
The hammer is dropping on power boating in Havasu.
After coming here for twenty years (when they begged for our money) living here for seven years, the writing is on the wall they want a more sedate crowd (like the Palm Springs blue hairs) in an effort to change the towns image (did you know that there are about 6000 housing lots now being entitled for TRACT housing in the Havasu area) and promote the town to a diffrent group of newbies with more money.
Power boating (as we currently know it) is doomed, they won't be happy untill we are all in 18 foot Bayliners.
CONSEQUENTLY: my boats are for sale and my house is for sale
F-em
PS: If you think I'm full of crap, Think of me in a couple of years when your on the water in your 4 banger Bayliner and limited to 45 MPH.