Paint ??????

[victorfb]

Billy, i have a ford F550 that has a paint issue. the bed came from an aftermarket supplier and was painted to match the cab. it was fine for a while but now the bed seems to be getting real hazy. when looking at it from an angle its almost like the color coat disappears, but when you look at it striaght on the color seems fine. so im thinking its the clear coat that is getting hazy or cloudy. have you come across this before? the cab looks great still, just the bed is getting this. and since it was done aftermarket im sure its a differant clear. im going to try and get ahold of the aftermarket dealer in the morning, its a company called "rollalong". i hope they have some sort of waranty for this. its an 05 truck. if not, is re-spraying the only answer?

[sidewound]

Hey Billy!
Thanks for the great thread and all the advice you've handed out ot everyone.
My question...................................
I want to paint my boat this winter. I'll do it in my garage. I don't have a fancy paint booth but I will come up with some sort of ventilation setup. Maybe a visqueen tent or something.
I live in the midwest but the garage is heated. I'm not sure how constant I can keep the tempurature though.
I'm thinking red and may do some graphics in white yellow orange etc.
Could you suggest an easy product to use? I have painted a couple of cars in the shop but it was years ago. I used single stage metallic and it was extremely hard to get a good result but they came out ok.
I'm just wondering if there's a product that even a bumbler like me can use and get good results.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Peace Man!
CESAR

[victorfb]

hey sidewound. billy is definatly the guy to answer your questions, but from my past experiences, a two stage paint allways comes out much nicer and easier to apply than a single stage. ive had good luck with "Xtreme" clear coats, and have used house of colors base coats with good results. i use the medium or fast dry clear because i dont have the nice spray booth like you do and want to get it to dry as fast as possible before bugs and dust adhere. still with good results. and its lasted on the pump for almost two seasons now with no signs of deteriation.(parts with most wear) talk with your local paint supplier and tell them what your intensions are and they should give you the best of what they have available.

[BILLY.B]

Hey Billy!
Thanks for the great thread and all the advice you've handed out ot everyone.
My question...................................
I want to paint my boat this winter. I'll do it in my garage. I don't have a fancy paint booth but I will come up with some sort of ventilation setup. Maybe a visqueen tent or something.
I live in the midwest but the garage is heated. I'm not sure how constant I can keep the tempurature though.
I'm thinking red and may do some graphics in white yellow orange etc.
Could you suggest an easy product to use? I have painted a couple of cars in the shop but it was years ago. I used single stage metallic and it was extremely hard to get a good result but they came out ok.
I'm just wondering if there's a product that even a bumbler like me can use and get good results.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Peace Man!
CESARWhen taking on a project like you intend to do this winter it can be alot of fun as long as you take your TIME!!!...Using a single stage paint can be done but that's where the time factor comes in. You have to be patient, and not having a booth can be a problem especially with single stage and seeing as you want to do the boat in red i'd suggest a 2 stage paint anyway. I'd base coat the boat in white first (after boat is preped) and lay the graphics out. Painting red over a white base will save you material as the red will cover faster not to mention white is much cheaper then red. Spray the yellow, then orange, then finish off with the red. Make sure you use a midcoat clear ( House of Kolor SG-100 ) over any graphic color you do so if by chance you get any overspray on them you can clean it off with some Comet and alittle water on a rag to get it off. When done with the boat (spraying) you can put a couple of clear coats (urethane clear) over the job. Let it dry for a couple of days then colorsand with 400 wet or dry sandpaper and re-clear. This will get your edge's down to next to nothing. I do a razor blade trick instead of the clearing deal but when people see me do the razor blade deal they think i'm crazy because the chance of screwing the job up increases by 100% but when i'm done you can't feel any edges at all. I use PPG and House of Kolor products which can be more expensive then some of the off color brands but that's not to say that the off color brands (cheaper) can't get the job done. Using a faster reducer came minimize problems (bugs, dust , lint...etc) but using a fast reducer in cold weather or in high humidity areas can also pose a problem with blushing. If blushing does occur you have to go to a slower reducer to give the moisture time to escape before the top layer of paint drys and traps it in. As far as the clear goes that would be a tough question. When I went back to Wisconsion to do a custom 75ft house boat for a good cutomer of mine all the code #'s that I know out here didn't apply there. So i'd go with a top name clear like a PPG or House of Kolor for the good UV ray protection....Remember taking your time will payoff in the end. Hope this helps you out, and if you need anything else let me know.

[VanDeano]

Billy,
I finished painting my 27 Carrera about 3 months ago with Algrip 2000. white. You can color sand this paint and buff out any marks or scratches you may get later, not like the regular Algrip). My question is I would like to put some graphics on it. Nothing to fancy maybe 2 to 4 different colors. Our maybe some flames. What type of paint should I use. If I were to use 2 stage paint would I clear the whole boat when done painting graphics or just over the graphics? The boat is white so Im worried if I clear the whole thing it might turn yellow. One other option I have is I have a vinyl cutter that is able to make graphics. Could that come into play?
Thank you in advance if you have any suggestions.
Dean

[BILLY.B]

Billy,
I finished painting my 27 Carrera about 3 months ago with Algrip 2000. white. You can color sand this paint and buff out any marks or scratches you may get later, not like the regular Algrip). My question is I would like to put some graphics on it. Nothing to fancy maybe 2 to 4 different colors. Our maybe some flames. What type of paint should I use. If I were to use 2 stage paint would I clear the whole boat when done painting graphics or just over the graphics? The boat is white so Im worried if I clear the whole thing it might turn yellow. One other option I have is I have a vinyl cutter that is able to make graphics. Could that come into play?
Thank you in advance if you have any suggestions.
DeanI'm not to familiar with Algrip but if it was me i'd lay out the graphics or the flames that I wanted, sand the area and put down a good sealer just to protect myself from any problems that mixing different brands may cause. Once that was done you could use House of Kolor pearl base coats or there candies. Or if you wanted solid colors you could any direction you wanted. You'll have to clear coat the area you do to protect any fades or shadowing you might do. Good luck.

[VanDeano]

Billy do you do graphics? If so, do you have a website to view them?
Thanks,
Dean

[BILLY.B]

Billy do you do graphics? If so, do you have a website to view them?
Thanks,
DeanYes to your first question and NO to your second one. I'm in the process of collecting pictures from some 30yrs of doing this and hopefully someday i'll get the site done.

[hottrodder]

http://www2.***boat.com/image_center...terResized.JPG
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center...ustResized.JPG
Good Morning Billy- I hope to be able to join you and the NKRA members at the 06 vacation. I had a great time there 2 or 3 years ago. You really seem to have single handedly started a rebirth of the Beismeyer/K boat craze.
I read through this whole thread and while I learned a lot I didn't run across my specific situation and maybe that's because it's auto related. After sitting in my various backyards for 10 years and doing nothing but a put a battery in it every few years I've decided to do a little work to the '37 pictured above. The key word here is LITTLE, relatively. The car runs but the surface rust is growing and the Nason red thining.
It started with removing the rear fenders to put patch panels in place of the cancer. Then I threw some 220 at the rear quarter just to see what would come up. The primer was very thin and it wasn't long before I was to bare metal over most of the panel. I stopped before doing to much more because I wasn't sure how to proceed as I looked ahead.
The end result of body work for me is to patch the fenders, Grind out some lead (more on this in a minute), and put a fresh few coats of primer on it before returning it to the yard. I'd like to not have to strip the car but I'm concerned about having a mix of bare metal and old to primer to shoot over. Is there a primer/sealer that can be sprayed over this surface? I used to use something called 401K but i don't know if it's still available. I've not shot anything in years.
Regarding the 'lead'. I see working marks from a grinding wheel on the metal so I'm pretty sure this isn't original. In this case it's probably some substitute like Aluma-Lead. I've heard horror stories of working with and painting over lead which is why I propose grinding it out. What's your opinion?
Thanks Billy for taking the time to read and reply to mine and all other questions.

[myoung]

Good Morning Billy- I hope to be able to join you and the NKRA members at the 06 vacation. I had a great time there 2 or 3 years ago. You really seem to have single handedly started a rebirth of the Beismeyer/K boat craze.
I read through this whole thread and while I learned a lot I didn't run across my specific situation and maybe that's because it's auto related. After sitting in my various backyards for 10 years and doing nothing but a put a battery in it every few years I've decided to do a little work to the '37 pictured above. The key word here is LITTLE, relatively. The car runs but the surface rust is growing and the Nason red thining.
It started with removing the rear fenders to put patch panels in place of the cancer. Then I threw some 220 at the rear quarter just to see what would come up. The primer was very thin and it wasn't long before I was to bare metal over most of the panel. I stopped before doing to much more because I wasn't sure how to proceed as I looked ahead.
The end result of body work for me is to patch the fenders, Grind out some lead (more on this in a minute), and put a fresh few coats of primer on it before returning it to the yard. I'd like to not have to strip the car but I'm concerned about having a mix of bare metal and old to primer to shoot over. Is there a primer/sealer that can be sprayed over this surface? I used to use something called 401K but i don't know if it's still available. I've not shot anything in years.
Regarding the 'lead'. I see working marks from a grinding wheel on the metal so I'm pretty sure this isn't original. In this case it's probably some substitute like Aluma-Lead. I've heard horror stories of working with and painting over lead which is why I propose grinding it out. What's your opinion?
Thanks Billy for taking the time to read and reply to mine and all other questions.
Hey there, hope you don't mind me offering a little help.
First off, you're going to have to get that suface rust off before you reprimer if you want it to be workable some time down the road. I know you don't want to strip it, but if you don't want the car to return to the earth, you really need to. If you just cover it with more primer it will still continue to rust and become an even bigger problem down the road. You'll want to avoid grinding if you can since this will cause a couple problems, one being the obvious thinning of the metal especially in raised areas, and the other being the creation of a surface that will need a lot of attention when future bodywork commences. A third problem can also arise depending on your choice of coverage before putting the car back outside, this being the rust coming back even worse due to a ground up surface.
The best method for getting rid of the rust is, of course, some sort of stripping, be it media blasting or chemical. However, if you don't want to go that route, then use a sander instead of a grinder with no less than 80 grit discs on a DA or @ 150 on a disc sander. You're gonna go through a lot of discs. Media blasting for rust can be dangerous to your surface if the media used creates too much heat, you end up with a lot of warping. Another draw back with blasting is the ammount of mess with the media getting caught in all the little cracks and openings, you'll be vaccuming for days. However, blasting is pretty cheap and fast and it leaves a nice surface for primering, a bit rough, but great for adhesion. Of course, you will have to primer it right away or the rust process will start over again rather quickly.
With chemical stripping you have a few issues as well. It can also be messy, but worse if not properly neutralized it can start the rust going again rather rapidly. There are also a couple ways you can go with chemical stripping depending on the severity of the rust. The most obvious way to chemical strip is to tear the car apart and send the panels to be dipped. This is fine for the fenders and hoods and trunk lid, but I doubt you want to strip down the body for dipping. That's fine, since I dont recommend dipping bodies anyway. If nothing else, you can have the body media stripped or sanded and chemical the rest. However, if the rust is not that bad, and you have lots of time to kill, another method that has worked for me for chemical stripping surface rust is to use metal prep and scotch brite and a whole lot of elbow grease. I've brought back some pretty nasty metal from the dead doing it this way, but it is a lot of work. The heavier rust usually has to be 'cut down' with a DA sander or anything else you have that wont dig in to the metal surface very much. Then it's scrub, rinse, repeat, till it's all gone.
Next up, your lead. The factory lead could have moved over the years and somebody may have ground it to bring it back into shape, this is quite common actually. If this is not the case, then you may be right and somebody has already replaced the lead with all metal or something similar. Easiest way to tell is to see if it will melt out. Which brings me to another point, never grind out lead. First of all, it's not necessary, and second it just creates damage to the sheet metal(and you if you dont use a dust mask). While you're at it, dont grind out any kind of filler, it's just a waste of time and makes a hell of a mess. Go get yourself some mapp gas or propane bottles and a torch head for doing copper plumbing(I use an auto lighting one, much easier). Use this along with a stiff putty knife and a wire brush to melt out lead, or with just the putty knife to remove body filler. Don't worry, it won't create heat as fast as an oxy/acetylene torch will and won't create any additional damage beyond what the body filler is covering, well, as long as you don't just hold the heat in one place forever. This will make removing filler go faster and with a lot less mess. Once you remove the lead you will probably find rust under it, treat this before covering the seam with filler. I always use all metal to replace lead, but you can also use dura glass. Both are strong and water tight, and both are a pain to work with. Dont try to finish with it, just fill in the space and finish with regular filler.
lastly, your primer. What primer to use is a subjective thing and depends on who you talk to. The one constant, however, is that primer is porous and soaks up water like a sponge, your surface rust will come back if you don't do something with it besides spray it on and throw it out into the elements. I personally use PPG products and have been using NCP-270 for a while now. I don't do much spraying and haven't bought any in a while, so for all I know it may be illeagle by now. Rest assured, there will be something available like it. It's kind of the replacement for the old 'K' stuff, sprays heavy and sand nice as long as you sand it soon. Wait too long and it's a rock. Once you get your primer laid down, if you know you won't be getting back to it any time soon then put some kind of top coat on it. Go down to the local paint supply and see if the have some mixed paint a customer didn't want and they want to get rid of, you can usually get it cheap. Sray a good coat of some kind of paint over the primer to seal it up, even clear will work.
Hope this helps some, sorry it's so long.