Reply With QuoteStu,
I must say to you that while you and I have some disagreement, with regard to the issues, it is a pleasure to communicating with someone with class, style and dignity.
John M
You once again prove to be the bagboy Henny Yougman of your generation.
This is very unfair to Henny Youngman.
Thanks
CA Stu
Stu,
I must say to you that while you and I have some disagreement, with regard to the issues, it is a pleasure to communicating with someone with class, style and dignity.
John M
Stu;
I understand your perspective and appreciate the experience you are sharing.
My words were "took pride in becoming Americans" not "just wanted to be Americans." there is a small, although meaningful difference.
It was not my intent to paint with a wide brush. Reading history, it is clear that their were criminals in every wave of immigrants that this country has experienced.
I am not damning people for wanting a better life, I commend them for the goal.
I want them to use the legal process to reach the goal, to go through the system to get here legally, and to enter this society as functional taxpaying citizens. If the system in place for immigrants is slow and cumbersome, and I am sure it is, then perhaps energy could be spent improving it. I don't know what you mean by progressive and inclusionary, but I don't support rewarding people who broke the law to get here. I do think we owe it to our children to do a complete background check on everyone who wants in, and we owe it to them to secure the borders so that they have a definable country to inherit.
Frankly, with failing overburdened social services systems and the impending collapse of Social Security, I think the GenX'ers might wind up rethinking the "Give me your Tired and Poor" philosophy that has worked so well over the decades, because when us boomers hand them the bill they ain't gonna be able to pay it. Until the majority of the people in this country want to participate in elections, tax policy, etc., and people believe that this country is facing a crisis of huge proportions, we are gonna be in trouble.
I spent 25 years in local law enforcement in California, so my perspective is based upon my experiences, which were far from a quaint fantasy.
With the dawn of the age of terrorism, we have a new problem in the mix. An unsecured border is an inviting path by which a terrorist organization could reach into this country and attack our population centers. It has already been tried at our northern border, and based upon my training via the Governor's Office of Emergency Services, I feel strongly the path will at some point be used. A secure, controlled border system and secure, fair, legal immigration are simply in the country's best interest.
So, I guess we'll agree to disagree in some areas, which is okay.
Stu;
A secure, controlled border system and secure, fair, legal immigration are simply in the country's best interest..
I agree, but I believe that there is an important piece missing from your statement regarding legal immigration. "In seriously reduced numbers"
John M
The factual realities displayed in that video ought to be required reading for every citizen of voting age in this country, and there should be a quiz afterword.
I am an American first, a conservative second, and a Republican for the time being. I think the Electoral College serves all of the purposes discussed here, and has many of the faults discussed as well. California's "All or nothing" system of assigning all electors to the majority party does leave one sensing a degree of a lack of representation, and it needs to change.
What I find most disturbing is discovered when following Rexone's 50 year outlook.
We have a growing number of uneducated self-centered people who vote based completely on what they believe that vote will do for them, without any idea of the impact it will have on the long-term health of the country.
We have a shrinking number of voters in general.
If we could increase the number of educated voters who cast their vote based upon what they believe reflects the best interest of the country by a mere 10%, we could change the course of the nation.
I voted for this president, twice, and I am very disappointed with his response to the illegal immgration crisis. Until we can define our borders, control our borders, and deal with those who choose to ignore them, this nation is in a quagimire we might not get out of. Creating a North American Union as seems to be the current unstated goal of the federal gov't. to compete with the E.U. will drain this nation like a battery with a dead short in it.
We are a a place that the history books might call the turning point where the U.S. began its slide into 2nd or 3rd world status.
As was previously stated, until we step up and elect leaders who have the nation's best interest as their driving force, we're in trouble. Until term limits are in place to make the Ted Kennedys, Robert Byrds, etc., the last of their kind, we are in trouble. We are already in trouble because we don't have the willpower to get off our asses and vote them out when they have overstayed their welcome.
There is a key difference with the illegal aliens in the wave that started in the late 70's and all the waves of immigrants that came into this country in the latter portion of the 1800's and early 1900's.
Those people came here to start a new life, they came here and claimed the country for their own, they honored their traditions while starting new ones. they were proud of their adopted home.
The folks that came through Ellis Island didn't commit a felony as their first act in the U.S.A.
They didn't protest in the streets of our towns demanding we speak their langauge.
They didn't demand free education for their children, free health care, and housing, and then work in an underground economy to avoid taxation.
They took pride in becoming Americans.
This nation needs a major change of direction, a rededication to it's purpose, and a new emphasis on national pride. The Democrats are not my fathers Democrats, and the Republican Party needs a real live conservative at the Helm ASAP.
If Hillary Clinton were to be running against Harry Truman back in his day, she would be called on the carpet as exactly what she is, a full fledged Socialist, in every ugly sense of the word.
The mere fact that she is able to move around in the politics of this nation without being called such speaks volumes about how far we have deteriorated, and how effectve revisionist historians and leftisits in general have been in our public schools over the past 30 years.
And with that, I am out of here...
Superlatives and romanticism aside the electoral college has alienated voters. That's not an opinion. That's what happened. The goal of a Democracy is to encourage the popular vote thereby making the citizenry participants in their government. The electoral college may can be brought back at some date in the future? But for now, eligible voters should be brought back into the fold with which it all began. Popular vote. The majority rules. The very basic and simplistic seed that sparked the growth of modern history's greatest rise to power. The electoral vote, the two-party system, and our leadership all share the same problem.. they are corrupt beyond repair. In life if you screw something up, you go back to basics. In politics, you give more power and pile on more legislation and confusion. The extreme party bias and vitriolic nature of this forum is a perfect example of what America has become.
Superlatives and romanticism aside the electoral college has alienated voters. That's not an opinion. That's what happened. The goal of a Democracy is to encourage the popular vote thereby making the citizenry participants in their government. The electoral college may can be brought back at some date in the future? But for now, eligible voters should be brought back into the fold with which it all began. Popular vote. The majority rules. The very basic and simplistic seed that sparked the growth of modern history's greatest rise to power. The electoral vote, the two-party system, and our leadership all share the same problem.. they are corrupt beyond repair. In life if you screw something up, you go back to basics. In politics, you give more power and pile on more legislation and confusion. The extreme party bias and vitriolic nature of this forum is a perfect example of what America has become.
Yea right.All those clueless people that don't even vote are the result of the electoral college. Get real. Most non-voters don't even know about the elctoral college, let alone how it relates to their vote.
I agree that's not an opinion. That idea is an absurdity.:rollside: :rollside:
But for now, eligible voters should be brought back into the fold with which it all began. Popular vote. The majority rules. The very basic and simplistic seed that sparked the growth of modern history's greatest rise to power.
What are you talking about here????We never elected the President by popular vote. In the first few elections the state's legislatures chose the electors who elected the president. Todays method is more by popular vote than it was when it all began. We origionally didn't even elect senators by direct popular vote. We do more by popular vote now, in this country, than we ever have.
Yea right.
I agree that's not an opinion. It's an absurdity.:rollside: :rollside:
It seems as if many who post in this area believe that their level of education and knowledge, of the system, is far more vast than the masses. To me, this is an arrogent and twisted view of our fellow Americans. I grew up in the city, and in the city you went to school. While there were a minority who dropped out, the majority at least finished high school. Basic govermnent is tought in elementary and Jr. high schools, and it includes how a President is elected. There is no doubt that most city people are educated. I can't speak for middle America, small towns and rural areas, but would not expect it be much different. Most people do know the system, and it is my understanding that most people would prefer a popular vote system. If this is the will of the majority, should it be denied?
John M
There are two schools of thought.
There's the Smokin Lowrider right wing "I know what's best for you and if you didn't have the same opportunity's I did it's your fault", school of thought.
And there's what he and Old Tex consider liberal, "let every American decide" school of thought.
Their attitude and arrogance is prevalent on every thread. They will have you believe all the other threads don't count and they should only be judged for this thread.
In short, they and the rest of the brain trust only ask questions and do not answer them. They also bash on you for months and when you do retaliate they pretend their innocence and berate you for being a troll. In fact, that's what they are. Troll's.
It seems as if many who post in this area believe that their level of education and knowledge, of the system, is far more vast than the masses. To me, this is an arrogent and twisted view of our fellow Americans. I grew up in the city, and in the city you went to school. While there were a minority who dropped out, the majority at least finished high school. Basic govermnent is tought in elementary and Jr. high schools, and it includes how a President is elected. There is no doubt that most city people are educated. I can't speak for middle America, small towns and rural areas, but would not expect it be much different. Most people do know the system, and it is my understanding that most people would prefer a popular vote system. If this is the will of the majority, should it be denied?
John M
I spoke specifically in regards to non voters and Poster X's specific point. You think it is arrogent and twisted to referance the fact that non voters tend to be less informed politically the those who take the trouble to vote?????
Poster X stated, as a fact, that the Electoral College has alienated voters. He is implying that the Electoral College is demotivating people from coming to the polls. Hmmm, I wonder why voter turnout is so much higher on avg for national presidential elections (the only ones that use the EC) than it is for all the other elections that use straight popular vote? Oh yea, the EC is pushing voters away in droves, no doubt.
Look I happen to like the EC. I happen to agree with James Madison and like the idea of a combined Federal/National method of choosing the President. I happen to feel it still, in a small way, serves it's intended purpose. If you think my feeling, on this one issue, allows you to paint me with the above prejoritive brush, so be it. But if you think it makes me arrogent like some leftist, who wants the gov to control all of us great unwashed masses, then you just don't know me very well.....
Besides my support of the EC has nothing to do with the education or views of the avg voter.
My support of the EC comes from my support of diversity in government.
I am sure you are well aware of the old analogy, that democracy can become like 2 wolves and sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Our nations founders were. That is why they created The Bill of rights, our separate branches of government (with a divided legislative branch), with checks and balances, etc... It is also why they created a system where our various types of leaders were selected in a variety of different ways. This was to protect individual liberties and minority points of view. The EC is part of that variety of selection, that is intended to protect individual liberties and minority points of view and I still happen to support it.
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