Knowledge is power

[Rexone]

I believe that this was posted previoulsy by Rexone. The numbers are scary. Obviously, something has got to change, quickly!
John M
Actually I posted it a couple times in different threads which evolved into some interesting conversation
Thread 1 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135182) Thread 2 (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138637)
But the link was originally posted by shaken not stirred so I can't take credit for it.

[eliminatedsprinter]

All this doom and gloom and yet we are the most prosperous and powerful society the planet has ever seen. Sure we need to start dismantling the system that has has made our nation more than 4x richer than the second richest nation in the world. By all means, lets tear apart the society and suspend the liberties that have, for the first time in human history, produced more self made wealthy people than those with inherited wealth. Never in the history of the world have so many people lived so well as we do in the U.S.A. We just can't have that!!!

[Rexone]

It all comes back to what the chart at the end of the video shows. If the immigration trend is not reversed (and world population not controlled for that matter) none of what you say eliminatedsprinter (which may be presently true) will matter at all. The US will fail as initial signs are already there (overcrowding and overburdening of just about every public service we have from education to medical care to infrastructure and the ability to keep up with the need for more of all those). On an even broader scope the world will fail as well as huge wars and famines develop over such basic necessities as food and clean water. At that point it will not matter much who or what country has wealth. The have nots will simply overrun the haves and it becomes a moot point. If a few of the have nots have nukes or bio weapons to get what they need the process will be accelerated. That or the haves will simply exterminate the billions of have nots because they have the means to. Either way, an ugly end to a poorly concieved population plan by the whole world and its leaders who are charged with having the foresight to prevent such scenarios.
This is what our children's children have to look forward to based on our past, present, and likely future leaders decisions to allow excessive immigration and uncontrolled population growth for what will then be about 100 years.
Rewatching that video, I find it hard to believe any elected official could ignore the reality of what the result of the present course and policy is producing. I guess that's the power of greed and money. It's all about them and now and little or nothing about the consequences of their inactions on those generations 50-100 years down the road. That's about the time period in which the bubble will explode in some form based on the video. The toddlers of today will be dealing directly with the huge problems the present policy will produce in their lifetimes. I can almost assure everyone, how big a performance boat or lake house to buy will not be on any of their grandchildren's to do lists given all of the above. My guess is their to do list will include such things as where to get uncontaminated food, how to educate their children, how to get medical care, where to live that is safe (perhaps including where to move that third world armies are not overruning and plundering), and stuff like that. If there's ***boats or any form of uncontaminated outdoor recreation available for US inhabitants on the present course it would surprise me.
To help visualize where I'm going with this, visualize what the US and the world were like 100 years ago in 1907. Think of the highly accelerated changes that have been seen in the last 100 years vs the 100 year prior (1807-1907) or even the last 50 in the case of immigration. Apply that accelerated level of change to the next 100 years. 2107, if it occurs will have little resemblence to today. The US and the world will have multiple times the people it has now if it survives and is somehow able to support those levels. The world and the US are both finite entities in terms of size and ability to support population. Population on the other hand is just the opposite and is a hungry monster left uncontrolled, that will consume every last resource available to survive.
Doom and gloom? Maybe. Or impending reality? One thing's for sure, hindsight will be 100% and the leaders that set it in motion or failed to stop it won't be around to deal with the results of their policies.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying there arn't problems to be delt with. My response was ment to provide a little more positive perspective. It was directed more twards some of the posts that suggest overreacting and tossing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. I like some of the above ideas, ie better reporting of what Congress is doing etc..But some of the others like suspending civil liberties and tossing out the electoral college would make things worse not better.

[Poster X]

How could tossing out the electoral college make things worse? The most corrupt aspect of modern politics is the zoning bias. The electoral vote could logically be connected to voting apathy the last 3 decades.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Good for it!! I don't want apathetic (AKA uninformed) voters selecting our nations leader.
The electoral college was created to prevent our Nation's major population centers from undue influence in choosing the President. To some extent I feel it has helped a in this regard. I live in a major population center (So Cal) and I still feel it is important, that they (the major centers) not control the nation.

[Rexone]

I'm not a fan of the electoral system either. Take California just as a small slice for an example. A good percentage of Californians voted republican. California is large so even a 40% slice is a large number of people. That 40% (hypothetical #) is not heard. It's several million peoples wishes. The fact that they're not heard and they know they're not going to be heard because of the advance polling... well why vote? Even though I vote I've often felt why bother for this very reason.
There was an election a while back (it escapes me which one at the moment) where Ca went dem on a very close margin like 49-51. That 49% which is millions of people went entirely ignored. That's bs imo. You can carry the scenario across the country with many many similar examples.
We have something like 30-40% voter turnout at best. I feel the above is a major reason as I think PX eluded to. If you know your vote doesn't mean shit why make the effort? This is true in every state that's not hotly contested for electoral votes.
Every other election in the country is decided by popular vote. How is it that those can all be valid and just but not for the presidency? I'm not buying it. You can look at this issue from either side of the fence and I've pondered it for decades from both sides. My personal opinion is that the electoral college is anti productive in encouraging people to vote and electing the person the people want elected. And I fully understand the reasons it was created and the arguments for it. I just don't think they hold water. And I realize Al Gore would be president based on my argument in 2000 based on popular vote. And I really don't like Al Gores political views. Not that I like Bush's much better in many areas. Again a lesser of two undesireables for me.
Furthur, in a state like California that's dem. dominated but still has a very large contingent of republican voters in numbers, candidates of both parties pretty much bypass it because it has no value (electorally) to either party being a shoe in for the dems. They don't even bother to campaign here other than for hollywood's money. That's a disservice to the voters imo who don't get the opportunity to see and hear the candidates as people in other swing states do that are hotly contested and highly campaigned by the candidates.
My feeling is you have apethetic uninformed voters running the show now for the above reason. The ones that give a shit stay home for a large part. You're going to have apethetic and uninformed either way so I don't think it's a big issue in an argument for or against the electoral college.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Not all states are all or nothing in their electoral votes.The founders left it up to the states to determine how they give out their electoral votes. We have the most dumb voters, so therefore we do it in the dumbest way. One of the things politicians complain about, here in Ca, is how candidates ignore us during the general election. If they were serious about it and Ca voters cared, we would change our system, to either giving out our electoral votes in a proportional mannor or by districts. Ultimately it is Ca's voters who are the ones who accept our current system and are too dumb to demand it change, and not the fault of the electoral college.

[Moneypitt]

IMO, the electorial vote should be split, percentage wise, along the percentage vote of the people. Anything else is wrong.........MP

[Rexone]

Not all states are all or nothing in their electoral votes.The founders left it up to the states to determine how they give out their electoral votes. We have the most dumb voters, so therefore we do it in the dumbest way. One of the things politicians complain about, here in Ca, is how candidates ignore us during the general election. If they were serious about it and Ca voters cared, we would change our system, to either giving out our electoral votes in a proportional mannor or by districts. Ultimately it is Ca's voters who are the ones who accept our current system and are too dumb to demand it change, and not the fault of the electoral college.
I may be wrong but I don't remember any states splitting their electoral votes 2 ways in past recent elections even though they might be allowed to.