Reply With QuoteI have even used tupperware in car installs. It works great, and really does a great job too.
Thanks, I'll give that a shot. That should also help in keeping the moisture to a minimum.
All Passive crossovers, included with seperates, will consume some power. Its just the way it is. Infinity and JBL crossovers are as good or better than anyone elses.
Like Wes said though if you want to maximize your system's potential, active crossovers are a good investment.
Infinity crossovers were the reason I switched to digital in the first place. I would have them actually grenade when running at high volume with high heat in my last boat. You had to pull apart the entire interior to get to them, as they are inevitably buried in the build and it was a royal pain in the ass.
We may run some passive crossovers in our lower priced systems in the future, but all crossovers will be co-located somewhere you can get to them with ease.
Nice suprise when you finally get your panels off to see the inside of capacitors have blown the teal green covers off the crossovers and all over the inside of your gunwales.
I have even used tupperware in car installs. It works great, and really does a great job too.
Thanks, I'll give that a shot. That should also help in keeping the moisture to a minimum.
Infinity crossovers were the reason I switched to digital in the first place. I would have them actually grenade when running at high volume with high heat in my last boat. You had to pull apart the entire interior to get to them, as they are inevitably buried in the build and it was a royal pain in the ass.
We may run some passive crossovers in our lower priced systems in the future, but all crossovers will be co-located somewhere you can get to them with ease.
Nice suprise when you finally get your panels off to see the inside of capacitors have blown the teal green covers off the crossovers and all over the inside of your gunwales.
Thankfully, after 5 hard summers of use, I've not experienced the same situation. I've been running an amp putting out a maximum of 150 watts RMS to 2 pairs.
I was going to exit this thread, wasn't I.
I'd like to mention that a crossover works in concert (
A passive crossover network can be designed to handle huge quanities of induction current... or it can be designed so the current isn't that high. It all varies with the values of the components chosen.
Active crossovers are great for sheer efficiency and so are probably superior for a boat or car but I'd rather have a well designed passive crossover network in my home speakers for sheer accuracy.
Thankfully, after 5 hard summers of use, I've not experienced the same situation. I've been running an amp putting out a maximum of 150 watts RMS to 2 pairs.
Yeah, I might have been running a bit higher than that...
Like, 150 per channel to two pairs. Clean power, but running them against the wall for sure.
By switching to active, we picked up 5 db and got a huge noticeable difference in clarity and volume. No more blown crossovers either.
Yeah, I might have been running a bit higher than that...
Like, 150 per channel to two pairs. Clean power, but running them against the wall for sure.
By switching to active, we picked up 5 db and got a huge noticeable difference in clarity and volume. No more blown crossovers either.
That is an impressive DB gain. More than twice as loud! Do passive crossovers really absorb that much power from an amp?
The Infinity Perfects are rated for 100 watts RMS. The JBL C608GTi are rated for 150 watts. Comparing the crossovers supplied by the MFG look pretty similar but not sure if they really are the same.
Do passive crossovers really absorb that much power from an amp?
It depends on how they are designed but... basically... yes.
It's easier for a network filter to deliver different frequencies to different drivers. There are designs that allow signal frequencies above a certain point to flow more easily to one driver and signal frequencies below a certain point to more easily flow to another driver.
In this case, the crossover filter network will not have to dissipate as much signal as it would if there is an independent crossover filter for each driver.
In the case of putting a capacitor on a tweeter, bass energy the tweeter isn't receiving is being absorbed in the capacitor and radiated as heat. If you were to remove the capacitor, you would find your tweeter will get really hot. The power has to go somewhere.
The Infinity Perfects are rated for 100 watts RMS. The JBL C608GTi are rated for 150 watts. Comparing the crossovers supplied by the MFG look pretty similar but not sure if they really are the same.
The capacity of the components is not the only factor in determining a crossover network's ability to handle power. The value of the components has a lot to do with it too.
In a 6dB Butterworth crossover design, it's pretty straight forward. You have a crossover point and all frequencies above or below (depending on the configuration of low or high pass) are basically shorted out. That is to say, signal at those frequencies is provided an easier return path than through the speaker. In this case, the crossover has to dissipate all of that energy. Still, the crossover point will largely determine how much power the filter network has to dissipate.
With a 12dB crossover (2 step ladder), the amount of energy each component has to dissipate is different again. 18dB would be your 3 step and 24 dB would be your 4 step ladder. ..... at least in a Butterworth design.
In other words, the number of turns on the inductors, as well as the value of the capacitors has a huge impact on the amount of power the filter is required to dissipate.... the power rating of the components has an impact on the amount of power the filter can dissipate.
With an active crossover, the same principles apply but it's all done on such low power signal that energy dissipation is not much of a problem.
The benefit of an active crossover is that downstream of the active filter, the amplifier doesn't have to amplify a bunch of signal that is only going to be absorbed by the crossover filter. That means less work and energy required of the amp... and no need to short out a bunch of unused signal at line levels in front of the speaker. It's a far, far more efficient way to go. ... but brings with it other problems that can be relevant in some situations.
Rivercrazy and Froggy... thanks for the tips on the sealed enclosures. I think I need to do this.
I have 4 focals in free air and always knew something wasn't quite right with the midbass.
now if I can only figure out how to attach them to the back of the panel
Most of the 6.5" speaker mfg's recommend a sealed 1/3 cubic foot box for seperates.
I've done this a few times, according to this recommendation. The difference is output and accuracy is pretty significant.
It depends on how they are designed but... basically... yes.
It's easier for a network filter to deliver different frequencies to different drivers. There are designs that allow signal frequencies above a certain point to flow more easily to one driver and signal frequencies below a certain point to more easily flow to another driver.
In this case, the crossover filter network will not have to dissipate as much signal as it would if there is an independent crossover filter for each driver.
In the case of putting a capacitor on a tweeter, bass energy the tweeter isn't receiving is being absorbed in the capacitor and radiated as heat. If you were to remove the capacitor, you would find your tweeter will get really hot. The power has to go somewhere.
The capacity of the components is not the only factor in determining a crossover network's ability to handle power. The value of the components has a lot to do with it too.
In a 6dB Butterworth crossover design, it's pretty straight forward. You have a crossover point and all frequencies above or below (depending on the configuration of low or high pass) are basically shorted out. That is to say, signal at those frequencies is provided an easier return path than through the speaker. In this case, the crossover has to dissipate all of that energy. Still, the crossover point will largely determine how much power the filter network has to dissipate.
With a 12dB crossover (2 step ladder), the amount of energy each component has to dissipate is different again. 18dB would be your 3 step and 24 dB would be your 4 step ladder. ..... at least in a Butterworth design.
In other words, the number of turns on the inductors, as well as the value of the capacitors has a huge impact on the amount of power the filter is required to dissipate.... the power rating of the components has an impact on the amount of power the filter can dissipate.
With an active crossover, the same principles apply but it's all done on such low power signal that energy dissipation is not much of a problem.
The benefit of an active crossover is that downstream of the active filter, the amplifier doesn't have to amplify a bunch of signal that is only going to be absorbed by the crossover filter. That means less work and energy required of the amp... and no need to short out a bunch of unused signal at line levels in front of the speaker. It's a far, far more efficient way to go. ... but brings with it other problems that can be relevant in some situations.
Wow dude thanks for the explaination! BTW - you sound like my Dad who is an electrical engineer....I understand the basic big picture view but not all the details....
Rivercrazy and Froggy... thanks for the tips on the sealed enclosures. I think I need to do this.
I've used XTC foam baffles in the past. They work OK.
I can't say how they would perform compared to a tupperware container.... no idea but I'll share a link, in case you find the idea interesting.
The foam is pretty soft. That will raise the Q of the driver, which isn't necessarily the best thing. .... but it's also quite porous which would reduce the amplitude of the rear wave, which is definitely a good thing.
Again.... I'm not recommending them specifically and I'm not recommending them over the plastic container idea (I've never tried it). I'm just saying I've used them and thought they were OK.
XTC foam baffles (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=260-788)
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