So we pull out of Iraq, then what?

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I think this may be the lead up to WWIII and I hope we can prevent it from becoming as big of a conflagration as the last one was, by not repeating the apeasment, that allowed it to get so out of hand.
I am aware that you don't see many of the similarities betweeen the lead up to the last WW and these times. I am also aware that you think I don't see or am ignoring the differances. The problem is, the similarities that I do see are the ones that were the most critical and ignored back in the 30's. And the differances only seem to indicate that our enemies in this may actually be worse than they were back then. I want this to be forcefully delt with now, so that my son wont have to be part of a major WW, like my great uncles and my grand parents were.
ES, I agree that this mess is gaining momentum and is beginning to spiral out of control. I also agree that force is an absolute. I just don't see the current cource as being effective. This surely doesn't mean that I welcome or invite defeat.

[eliminatedsprinter]

ES, I agree that this mess is gaining momentum and is beginning to spiral out of control. I also agree that force is an absolute. I just don't see the current cource as being effective. This surely doesn't mean that I welcome or invite defeat.
Perhaps that is why you should, stick to your major points and not directly respond to that particular charge, after all, you have already responded to it about 90 times already in the past.
P.S. I don't think you want defeat in Iraq, but I really am starting to think Pelosi and Co might. At this point, I'm starting to think they care more for the political points and their own personal power than they do for the welfare of our soldiers and our nation. But I must stress that this is just an opinion and I would love to see them prove me wrong.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Perhaps that is why you should, stick to your major points and not directly respond to that particular charge, after all, you have already responded to it about 90 times already in the past.
P.S. I don't think you want defeat in Iraq, but I really am starting to think Pelosi and Co might. At this point, I'm starting to think they care more for the political points and their own personal power than they do for the welfare of our soldiers and our nation. But I must stress that this is just an opinion and I would love to see them prove me wrong.
ES,
As you should already know, I'm not a fan of Pelosi & Co. Her (their) motives seem questionable at least.

[eliminatedsprinter]

ES,
As you should already know, I'm not a fan of Pelosi & Co. Her (their) motives seem questionable at least.
Most of the time when people here lash out against the evil libs etc... It is the likes of Pelosi etc and their supporters that they mean.
Everyone here does some over generalizing at one time or another. For example, I lumped you in with Poster when I said you guys were outnumbered, even though I am pretty sure () you are not a supporter of "Utopian Socialism" like he is.

[SB]

Good post Rex.
If we aren't willing to shoot the looters, we shouldn't invade.
Next time, no more Mr. Nice guy.
What to do now?
We should probably withdraw to where we can protect the Kurds.
Then the Shiites will massacre the Sunnis. Then maybe there will be peace, sorta.
The Iraqis have spent us into the ground, we can't keep it up.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Most of the time when people here lash out against the evil libs etc... It is the likes of Pelosi etc and their supporters that they mean.
Everyone here does some over generalizing at one time or another. For example, I lumped you in with Poster when I said you guys were outnumbered, even though I am pretty sure () you are not a supporter of "Utopian Socialism" like he is.
No worries ES. While I admire Poster and some of his opinions we are, as you suggest, very different.
Good post Rex.
If we aren't willing to shoot the looters, we shouldn't invade.
Next time, no more Mr. Nice guy.
What to do now?
We should probably withdraw to where we can protect the Kurds.
Then the Shiites will massacre the Sunnis. Then maybe there will be peace, sorta.
The Iraqis have spent us into the ground, we can't keep it up.
Good post SB

[tbanzer]

I feel the most important bench mark in Iraq or anywhere in the middle east is when the general population feels that they want to embrace our values our way of life and wants our help to get there (democracy). Only then will they be able to start standing on their own two feet and join the fight to eliminate the threat to all of the western world that doesent happen to have the same religious beliefs. I fear that this is the most pivotal times in the history of all of civilization and it is in fact a fight of good vs evil. I just hope im on the right side.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I feel the most important bench mark in Iraq or anywhere in the middle east is when the general population feels that they want to embrace our values our way of life and wants our help to get there (democracy). Only then will they be able to start standing on their own two feet and join the fight to eliminate the threat to all of the western world that doesent happen to have the same religious beliefs. I fear that this is the most pivotal times in the history of all of civilization and it is in fact a fight of good vs evil. I just hope im on the right side.
The bench marks you discuss would make the world much closer to a perfect one. Believing that those in the Mid East will ever embrace our values, way of life, etc. may be a little optimistic. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[CPBRIAN10THMTN]

My opinion is that the war in Iraq was compromised and flawed in the very first days by the people in Washington. Shock and awe on TV was the word of the day. Letting the majority of Saddam's army run for the hills to fight us again now and featuring imbedded reporters at every turn to make sure all was PC was the reality of the day. That army should have been captured (preferably) or killed and rules of engagement should have been planned for just that in advance of the first troop on the ground. That is what a war is. Whether you agree or not with the reasons for going there, if you go there it better be to win. This 5 year ongoing semi war, semi police mission there is bs. And AL Quieda didn't have the large presence there in those early days that we've allowed it to develop now. By drawing it out we've drawn them there (maybe that was the goal right from the start designed by someone with much deeper insight and understanding than myself)... if so mission accomplished. But now that so many are there, why not complete the mission and obliterate them (if that was the mission, which we will likely never know).
It was never a real war right from day one with any intention of obliterating the enemy and then withdrawing. That is the problem today. We should never have started a war in Iraq we didn't intend to win quickly and decisively. We should have removed Saddam and his entire army immediately and had the forces and technology in place to stop any influx of fighters from surrounding nations like Syria. Big job, yes certainly. But that should have been planned for in advance or we should have stayed home and maybe used all that money and military might to secure our own borders (now there's a novel idea).
Just my .02 as some dumass looking at it from the outside.
Rex,
You are talking about an army of men that did not want to be there, that did not want to fight and were extremely happy when we showed up and immediately surrendered. Rules of engagement were definetly planned, we dropped leaflets and aired warnings for people to stay in their homes, anyone on the street would be shot and killed. The problem we faced immediatly was the lack of security on the borders and soon enough iraq became a terrorist playground. We did obliterate the enemy we set out too but seem to drag our feet with the one that we fight today. Just not enough manpower to keep borders completely secure. I definetly agree with you on our borders!

[Old Texan]

Too much of this war is being fought in the press. Our media has given far too many opinions and far too few facts. When you listen to the views of those that have been over there, they are in direct contrast to what the media "reports".
We would have been far better off and will be far better off if the media and congress would sit back and leave the military do their jobs. We have finely trained professionals that have been severly harnassed to this point. It needs to stop. Release the restraints on our military for 6 months and then take a look at what they can really do. Pull out then would be no problem because the problem would be gone.