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Thread: American Made

  1. #21
    Kachina26
    ???????
    Well said.

  2. #22
    Sane Asylum
    Toolin' handled it for me
    Sad thing is, in a few days, everyone in my house will be a union member.
    My 17 yo son has a job at a grocer, luckily the union is there to make sure he gets minimum wage
    I start my union job in 2 weeks. I have mixed feelings on that.
    What's the new vocation???

  3. #23
    Sane Asylum
    ???????
    Baja232..........I'm going to go easy on ya because I used to own the same boat .......In a weird sort of way I feel somewhat connected.........
    A post like yours will stir some opinions.........You got served by those with a differing opinion......
    Good board fodder but where is Frenchie when you need him......

  4. #24
    Kachina26
    What's the new vocation???
    Conductor, I hear it involves sittin' waitin' for signals to turn green I start school in January. Everytime I think about an automotive problem, I realize that I won't be doing that anymore. I'm kinda sad, as much as I hate the way the business is going, I still like working on cars.

  5. #25
    superdave013
    •Every month 457,000 retirees and their spouses count on GM for Pension checks
    •Over 1.2 million Americans receive health care benefits from General Motors
    Good luck on the above. Those will get cut real soon. Seems to be the trend these days.
    I'm from Anderson, Indiana and at one time that city what HUGE with GM work. Guide Lamp and Delco were both there among others. If you didn't work at one of the 2 you worked for a company that supported them. I always had a GM car as that all my dad would let in his driveway. lol
    But those plants are 99% closed up now and the place is hurting.
    OK, lets go south a few hours to Princton, Indiana. Toyota now has a big F'in plant down there making trucks. Sure I would think the major profits go back to the main land but the people in that town now have better jobs.
    So were would you rather be? In dried up ol' Anderson or down in Princton working a good job??
    BTW, old habbits die hard. I drive a Dodge truck and the wife has a Chevy Surburan.

  6. #26
    Sleek-Jet
    How much does GM spend on white collar pensions every year???
    And if the unions cost so much to have around, why do vehicles that are manufactured at non-union shops cost about the same as a compartive union built unit???
    As far as reliablility, I drove my 89 F250 over 200,000 miles and had no major problems, other than replacing items that simply wear out over that time frame. Still had the orginal engine when I sold it, used no oil, and ran like the day I bought it.
    My 93 Blazer is pushing 170,000... same story, other than stuff just wears out over the years, no mechanical problems to speak of.

  7. #27
    Kachina26
    How much does GM spend on white collar pensions every year???
    And if the unions cost so much to have around, why do vehicles that are manufactured at non-union shops cost about the same as a compartive union built unit???
    If someone could make a hamburger as good or better than in-n-out (not likely ) for much less money, and people were willing to spend the same money as in-n-out, why would they charge less? The unions have driven up costs, and the non-union manufacturers are capitalizing on it.
    As far as reliablility, I drove my 89 F250 over 200,000 miles and had no major problems, other than replacing items that simply wear out over that time frame. Still had the orginal engine when I sold it, used no oil, and ran like the day I bought it.
    My 93 Blazer is pushing 170,000... same story, other than stuff just wears out over the years, no mechanical problems to speak of.That's my problem, I need much more than 170k miles, I do that in 3.5 years, easy. My mazda had 245k when I sold it 5 years ago and I still see it around town. My wife is so mad at me for selling that car. Don't get me wrong, I love my GM truck, but for commuting I need a different product.

  8. #28
    maxwedge
    Me and 1000's of other people have had a job for the last 4 years mainly because of a Misubishi plant right here in Normal IL. It's been here for almost twenty years building a very large portion of what they sell in the US and suppling 1000's of people with jobs. The plant I work for supplys brake and fuel line assemblys for them. When I started 4 years ago we made parts for the GM G-van, Isuzu, Dodge Ram trucks (probably 50% of our business), Mitsubishi (almost everything they make), the S-10, Neon, Sebring, Stratus, Dodge Viper. and more recently, the Ford Freesytle and 500. There have been lots of lay offs here in the last few years, Mitsubishi cut production almost 50% last year, Neon is no more, g-van is gone, s10 is gone. Dodge got spilt up between Mexico and some other plant in the US that out bid us. The only thing my plant builds right now is Mitsubishi, Ford and Viper(very low volume and actually a money loser for us). we lost half of our workers, so did they. The plant I work for is non union. The Mitsubishi plant is. We don't have big fights at the local bars every night. This isn't 1970's Detroit or flint. But My father is from there and my brother lives in Lansing (former home of Olds), so I'm quite familiar with that siuation. Nobody is begging for food on the streets here. The thousands of layed off workers got very large severance packages. Many haven't even bothered looking for jobs yet. This town is still quite prosperous. Manufacturing jobs are the exception here. I do it because I like it. But It is not the only job in town. If you are driving one of these vehichels, chances are good I had a hand in making it, and I'm damn proud of that. But, Here is my point.
    This is very much a Global economy weather you like it or not. Buying only new GM or Ford or union or not isn't the answer. I drive a 97 Ford truck. It was expensive. It has been very well maintained. It is falling apart. I also have a 1985 nissan truck in the garage. I bought it to beat the crap out of off road. It never breaks. I would never encourage anybody to "Buy American" Just to save the poor GM and Ford employees jobs. If they have a better product at a better price they will survive. If not, hey that's capitalism for ya. 1 Million GM jobs isn't going to collapse America, but it is going to make or force those people survive some other way. Maybe they can find work in a new Toyota plant. That's life. They still won't starve here in the US unless they want to. Frankly I don't feel that just because I was born into a prosperous country that I deserve to live a better life than somebody who was born in Mexico or China or Japan. Those people are willing to work cheaper because it gives them something more than what they have which is basically nothing. I'm broke as hell compared to a lot of people on these boards. So what. That doesn't make me more or less deserving than them. I paid $78,000 last year for a 1600sf house with a huge two car garage and a big yard here in IL. What's that cost out in CA? what about Mexico? If they want my $12.30 an hour job for $1 a day. Take it. They obviously need it more than me. I'll find somthing more rewarding to do with my time. Also, I don't particularly care if a shitload of GM retirees loose their pensions. They made the equivelnt of ten times what I ever will doing the same job in my lifetime, but ironicly they are also the reason why I can't afford to buy a new GM truck. I guess they should have saved more. Economics and life, Is a big cycle like that. Basic economics. Basic human condition. Some people can afford a to buy a fleet of new Eliminators. Some people would gladly trade that fleet for just one meal. The only real solution is to let it equal out across the world which won't happen in our lifetime, but maybe someday if we actually treat people from other countries as fellow human beings instead hating them for trying to take a small peice our inflated paychecks to make a better life for themselves. If somebody in Mexico, or Korea can build a better car than gm for $12000 less, and it means the korean family won't starve to death, and I can still afford to buy it, because I live in the US, and maybe Taco bell is still paying me 6 times as much as them, just to make tacos, I will gladly buy that car. Even if it means some executive in America won't be able to get that new DCB. Or maybe that 30 year old used Sidewinder for some factory worker in IL. I love this country, I'm very glad I was born here, but I don't think that I'm entitled to more than everybody else because of it. Neither are you. The companys that will survive in the US are the ones that transact business worldwide, as efficently as possible. Not the ones that give out handouts or outragous pensions, just because that's the way it has been done in the past. That's capitalism. Free market baby. It works. I'm damn glad to be a part of it. If we spread it around the world, and some people don't starve and I can buy a good cheap truck, so much the better. It isn't the governments job to fix GM or anyone elses business. It's our job as americans to make american business compete and succeed in this world economy. Whatever that takes. God bless the USA, and everybody else trying to live life on this planet.

  9. #29
    Old Texan
    Does everyone know why all of the imports located factories down south?
    To get rid of the unions!
    Not one single plant is union, & have remained non-union for all of these years. No UAW.
    Unions are killing this mfg base in this country, they did serve a time & purpose in this country, but they have outlived their usefullness.
    Look at our home state of California.
    Look at New York City right now, the unions are creating havoc there.
    The mayor ought to fire them all, hire back all non-union, like Reagan did to the Air Traffic Controllers.
    What really gets me, is the union is being fined 1 million a day. Those funds are going to be paid from the rank & file members.
    Growing up in MI I had a great view of the auto industry in the 60' and 70s. When I graduated from HS I was told by lot of old timers that college was a waste of my time, "get a job in the 'shop' " as they called the auto factories. "You'll be set for life. Good pay, good benefits, lots of vacation, and in 30 years you can kick back and fish."
    Well guess what. In 1972 or 3 I was driving to work in Pontiac, MI and the unemployment office had a 1/2 mile line of laid off workers from GM. Those with up to 12 yrs senority were told it would be permanent.
    It was a standard joke in those days that you didn't want a Monday or Friday car, a pre holiday car, or one of the first built after changeover. Fill in workers on the line and hungover regulars didn't do quality work at those times.
    We can blame unions and/or management but the real problem is the attitude of the everyday worker not taking pride and not demanding union AND corp mangement to make decisions that were good business decisions.
    Too many labor settlements were signed with added benefits down the round rather than immediate wages increases. We are seeing the fallacy of these decisions now. The number of workers retiring in their 50's and receiving full benefits for 20+ years places an enormous burden on profits.
    Nothing is wrong with unions if the union takes the business side of the corporation into account. You can only squeeze so many eggs out of the Golden Goose. Unions need to realize they are basically the supplier of labor which is subject to what the market can and will bear in relation to a healthy bottom line. Unfortunately union management turns into politicians worrying only about immediate needs and getting reelected by their constituents.
    The southern style plants I've been involved with have far better worker/management relations. Workers feel part of the team and are treated as such. Early ventures into are US business climate by the Japanese had management with a guarded attitude of trust toward US workers. Through the years they have seen the American worker as intelligent, skilled, and prideful of the end product. These plants run smoothly with the team effort.
    Adaptation to the market and foresight for profitable continuity are key to
    success.
    One more thing, Saturn and Corvette are in TN and KY. Both among the most profitable of GM's domestic products.
    Another crazy thing is the number of workers from the south who moved to Detroit in the 40's and 50's whose descendants are heading back south.

  10. #30
    Sane Asylum
    Me and 1000's of other people have had a job for the last 4 years mainly because of a Misubishi plant right here in Normal IL. It's been here for almost twenty years building a very large portion of what they sell in the US and suppling 1000's of people with jobs. The plant I work for supplys brake and fuel line assemblys for them. When I started 4 years ago we made parts for the GM G-van, Isuzu, Dodge Ram trucks (probably 50% of our business), Mitsubishi (almost everything they make), the S-10, Neon, Sebring, Stratus, Dodge Viper. and more recently, the Ford Freesytle and 500. There have been lots of lay offs here in the last few years, Mitsubishi cut production almost 50% last year, Neon is no more, g-van is gone, s10 is gone. Dodge got spilt up between Mexico and some other plant in the US that out bid us. The only thing my plant builds right now is Mitsubishi, Ford and Viper(very low volume and actually a money loser for us). we lost half of our workers, so did they. The plant I work for is non union. The Mitsubishi plant is. We don't have big fights at the local bars every night. This isn't 1970's Detroit or flint. But My father is from there and my brother lives in Lansing (former home of Olds), so I'm quite familiar with that siuation. Nobody is begging for food on the streets here. The thousands of layed off workers got very large severance packages. Many haven't even bothered looking for jobs yet. This town is still quite prosperous. Manufacturing jobs are the exception here. I do it because I like it. But It is not the only job in town. If you are driving one of these vehichels, chances are good I had a hand in making it, and I'm damn proud of that. But, Here is my point.
    This is very much a Global economy weather you like it or not. Buying only new GM or Ford or union or not isn't the answer. I drive a 97 Ford truck. It was expensive. It has been very well maintained. It is falling apart. I also have a 1985 nissan truck in the garage. I bought it to beat the crap out of off road. It never breaks. I would never encourage anybody to "Buy American" Just to save the poor GM and Ford employees jobs. If they have a better product at a better price they will survive. If not, hey that's capitalism for ya. 1 Million GM jobs isn't going to collapse America, but it is going to make or force those people survive some other way. Maybe they can find work in a new Toyota plant. That's life. They still won't starve here in the US unless they want to. Frankly I don't feel that just because I was born into a prosperous country that I deserve to live a better life than somebody who was born in Mexico or China or Japan. Those people are willing to work cheaper because it gives them something more than what they have which is basically nothing. I'm broke as hell compared to a lot of people on these boards. So what. That doesn't make me more or less deserving than them. I paid $78,000 last year for a 1600sf house with a huge two car garage and a big yard here in IL. What's that cost out in CA? what about Mexico? If they want my $12.30 an hour job for $1 a day. Take it. They obviously need it more than me. I'll find somthing more rewarding to do with my time. Also, I don't particularly care if a shitload of GM retirees loose their pensions. They made the equivelnt of ten times what I ever will doing the same job in my lifetime, but ironicly they are also the reason why I can't afford to buy a new GM truck. I guess they should have saved more. Economics and life, Is a big cycle like that. Basic economics. Basic human condition. Some people can afford a to buy a fleet of new Eliminators. Some people would gladly trade that fleet for just one meal. The only real solution is to let it equal out across the world which won't happen in our lifetime, but maybe someday if we actually treat people from other countries as fellow human beings instead hating them for trying to take a small peice our inflated paychecks to make a better life for themselves. If somebody in Mexico, or Korea can build a better car than gm for $12000 less, and it means the korean family won't starve to death, and I can still afford to buy it, because I live in the US, and maybe Taco bell is still paying me 6 times as much as them, just to make tacos, I will gladly buy that car. Even if it means some executive in America won't be able to get that new DCB. Or maybe that 30 year old used Sidewinder for some factory worker in IL. I love this country, I'm very glad I was born here, but I don't think that I'm entitled to more than everybody else because of it. Neither are you. The companys that will survive in the US are the ones that transact business worldwide, as efficently as possible. Not the ones that give out handouts or outragous pensions, just because that's the way it has been done in the past. That's capitalism. Free market baby. It works. I'm damn glad to be a part of it. If we spread it around the world, and some people don't starve and I can buy a good cheap truck, so much the better. It isn't the governments job to fix GM or anyone elses business. It's our job as americans to make american business compete and succeed in this world economy. Whatever that takes. God bless the USA, and everybody else trying to live life on this planet.
    AMEN

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