Just a question for one of ya,how accurate are the a/f monitors in a water injected o/t headers? Seems like the water would cool the o2 senser and give some false readings? Are you guys running the expensive wide band set ups?(auto meter) or will the led edelb. work just as good? Curious cause I am tempted to buy one to help me get the right jetting.:idea:
The O2 sensor is plumbed deeper into the tube, where it hits exh gas only and the water goes AROUND the bung. Of course, this must be done prior to where the water mixes with the gas - toward the end of the collector.
The O2 sensor is plumbed deeper into the tube, where it hits exh gas only and the water goes AROUND the bung. Of course, this must be done prior to where the water mixes with the gas - toward the end of the collector.
Seems like that would work at idle but under throttle seems like its gonna get wet where ever ya put it?
I will state it again, an AFR of 16:1 in a marine application will cause to much heat and likely piston damage. Based on what experience? You're making a statement of fact here, and I'm wondering if it's based in any real information. Have you melted pistons in a marine app while accurately monitoring the AFR? Was this during a dyno test? How do you know this to be true?
Just a question for one of ya,how accurate are the a/f monitors in a water injected o/t headers? Seems like the water would cool the o2 senser and give some false readings? Are you guys running the expensive wide band set ups?(auto meter) or will the led edelb. work just as good? Curious cause I am tempted to buy one to help me get the right jetting.:idea:
Gaffrig makes a Pyrometer (EGT meter) that can be very helpful with jetting issues. The sensor is mounted deep in the manifold or header so that the sensor stays dry.
All of the marine wide band stuff that is out there is really pricey.
Based on what experience? You're making a statement of fact here, and I'm wondering if it's based in any real information. Have you melted pistons in a marine app while accurately monitoring the AFR? Was this during a dyno test? How do you know this to be true?
I melted 2 pistons in my marine 502 blower motor running an EGT at slightly over 1500, As a result I disused AFR's with many quality tuners, both marine and auto. I was running the motor too lean. I also viewed a dyno printouts of the fuel maps from both my Saleen and my Cobra. At WOT, 12.6:1 12.9:1 were optimum.
Under a load, such as a marine application, or at WOT 16:1, or similer lean condition, will cause excess heat, detonation and piston failure, forged or the otherwise weaker hypereutectics.
There are many variables, such as octane, head material, piston material, valve material, engine temp. etc, for there to be many absolutes regarding AFR's. The only absolute that I am sure, regarding marine engines, is to lean is very bad and 16:1 is too lean.
Seems like that would work at idle but under throttle seems like its gonna get wet where ever ya put it?
Nope. In fact, water pretty much kills O2 sensors, so they absolutely have to be in dry exhaust. Jacketed manifolds / headers have the inner tubes for actual exh and outer tubes around them for the water to pass through. The O2 bungs are placed in the dry tube area and the water passes around the bung. The water doesn't mix with the gasses until the tail end of the collector which would be AFTER the O2 sensor.
I think you are thinking of water INJECTED headers only - which, you're right - would not work as the water is injected into the exh gas near the ports. Most of the over-transom headers I have seen on jet boats and such that are running Oxy sensors are dry headers only - no water at all.
Edit: Now that I re-read your first post, I see you are indeed talking about O/T injected headers. That clarifies it.
What's it like to start a thread on my "blunder", and find out I was RIGHT? LMFAO!!!!!!!
Getting his arse handed to him as I type, by me, among others. LOL
Yep, Tuner it is. LOL.
You sure are a top notch "investigator". LMFFAO, MORE!!!!!!
Ultra's latest lack of "investigation". LMAO (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showth...73#post2726473)
Smokin
The first post quotes you accurately. Your 16:1 and explanation simply don't apply to marine engines. Marine engines run under a constant load, remember. If you recall you were questioning the efficiency of my 496 Mag HO, compared a carbed 454.
Since you aren't capable of taking my word for it please discuss this matter with an expert, and come back and post your findings. I would hate to see someone here take your word as the gospel, and have it cost them a piston or two.
What's it like to start a thread on my "blunder", and find out I was RIGHT? LMFAO!!!!!!!
Getting his arse handed to him as I type, by me, among others
Does acting like complete a**hole give you pleasure?
Whatever gets you off Smokin.
Gaffrig makes a Pyrometer (EGT meter) that can be very helpful with jetting issues. The sensor is mounted deep in the manifold or header so that the sensor stays dry.
All of the marine wide band stuff that is out there is really pricey.
I melted 2 pistons in my marine 502 blower motor running an EGT at slightly over 1500, As a result I disused AFR's with many quality tuners, both marine and auto. I was running the motor too lean. I also viewed a dyno printouts of the fuel maps from both my Saleen and my Cobra. At WOT, 12.6:1 12.9:1 were optimum.
Under a load, such as a marine application, or at WOT 16:1, or similer lean condition, will cause excess heat, detonation and piston failure, forged or the otherwise weaker hypereutectics.
There are many variables, such as octane, head material, piston material, valve material, engine temp. etc, for there to be many absolutes regarding AFR's. The only absolute that I am sure, regarding marine engines, is to lean is very bad and 16:1 is too lean.I'm still not seeing where you knew anything about what your AF was in any of these examples. 12.6 and 12.9:1 may have been optimal based on what? Power output? Cyl head temp? Ex temp? The sound of the motor?
Way too vague here.
I'm still not seeing where you knew anything about what your AF was in any of these examples. 12.6 and 12.9:1 may have been optimal based on what? Power output? Cyl head temp? Ex temp? The sound of the motor?
Way too vague here.
I posted facts. If you want to run your motor at 16:1 like your buddy says it's OK to, have at it. I'm not here to argue.
I posted facts. If you want to run your motor at 16:1 like your buddy says it's OK to, have at it. I'm not here to argue.Don't run from the question, just show where your facts support that 16:1 is a dangerous AF for marine app. You impressed us all with your Saleen and Cobra AF numbers (which have nothing to do with marine app) but I'm not hearing facts to back up anything relating to 16:1 in marine app. "He said, she said" isn't factual. I just want to know where you get your hard numbers to back your statement, that's all. It's not about me, my engine, SLSS, or anyone else. You made the statement.
As far as being my "buddy"...That's rich...the two of you sound like an old married couple, which is what this thread is really about. It's just bleed over from Pol. Rhetoric, and you're still just trying to "one up" eachother. I think someone here on the boards described it a while back as "dick sword fighting". :notam:
Don't run from the question, just show where your facts support that 16:1 is a dangerous AF for marine app. You impressed us all with your Saleen and Cobra AF numbers (which have nothing to do with marine app) but I'm not hearing facts to back up anything relating to 16:1 in marine app. "He said, she said" isn't factual. I just want to know where you get your hard numbers to back your statement, that's all. It's not about me, my engine, SLSS, or anyone else. You made the statement.
As far as being my "buddy"...That's rich...the two of you sound like an old married couple, which is what this thread is really about. It's just bleed over from Pol. Rhetoric, and you're still just trying to "one up" eachother. I think someone here on the boards described it a while back as "dick sword fighting". :notam:
Nothing to run from. If you believe something other than what I have posted, I would suggest that you discuss this matter with tuning experts, as I have. Bob Teague, (TCM) Gary Taylor, (GTI) Ray (Raylar), Gary Teague (GT Marine) or any expert marine engine tuner will confirm that anything above 14.5:1 is too lean in a marine application.
This is not a pissing contest. I have stated what I know to be fact.
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