Is Waterboarding Torture?

[Schiada76]

Post of the month!...
lol..
I try to do my part.

[thatguy]

B&B,
We are exactly on the same page. Amazing!
Tommy

[boatsnblondes]

B&B,
We are exactly on the same page. Amazing!
Tommy
Wow!!!! 2 for 2??? What the fock??? Thats the most people that have ever agreed with me since I joined the site!!!! Remember this day.....

[boatsnblondes]

This is what they have coming to them...run, you curr....run, and tell them hell is coming with us....HELL IS COMING WITH US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/11...lanting_an_IED

[boatsnblondes]

This is what they have coming to them...run, you curr....run, and tell them hell is coming with us....HELL IS COMING WITH US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/11...lanting_an_IED
Wow, listen to me!!! That was some damned good coffee.......LOL.... :devil:
OR, to nearly quote our good friend Bilgie...
"Please allow myself to......quote.....myself......."

[Froggystyle]

I am not going to get on a soapbox on this one, but I will share a couple little pearls with all of you on my way out of this thread...
People are fighting this war every day. Both sides. They all believe in what they are doing, and they believe they are making a change for the better. Both sides. It is a war of a difference of opinion, and it has polarized two cultures on opposite sides of the world to hate each other.
That said, someone has to kick in the doors. Those are my friends doing that. They are kicking in the doors on houses where intel has led them (most likely HUMINT or "human intel") and trying to find weapons, bombs, documents or more likely than anything else... another story to work from and go kicking some more doors.
We signed up for door kicking, tango shooting and hostage saving. We signed up for direct action raids, and we signed up for covert intelligence gathering missions and sneak and peaks.
We didn't sign up and go through all of that training to torture people.
Can anybody tell me one time that taking the moral high ground has benefited the USA? :devil:
Every time we walk outside with our heads held high.
We choose the moral high ground because the guy that is being expected to sweat information out of the enemy could be the same guy two years later that you are going to go buy a boat from. We are Americans, first and foremost. If you heard the stories I have heard from seriously bad ass men about having to sweat someone and then leaving the room to throw up, you would be amazed. We aren't wired to be psychopaths. We are warriors, and warriors don't connect red to positive and black to negative. There is a monster, huge, vast, enormous gulf of difference between getting into a running gun battle to escape indian country to save your life, or attacking a superior enemy force to rescue someone etc... and using physical torture to gain intel.
Americans are not cut out for torturing people. Most of us anyway. All of my friends for sure.
Anyone who says "kill them all" or "turn the place into a glass parking lot" or any of the other bullshit diatribes I have heard spewed forth from this forum or myriad other gatherings of Americans has likely never been in a position to hold a soflam laser on a target waiting for a Hellfire to arrive. Or sat with people in crosshairs waiting for the initiation shot of your direct action.
"Kill 'em all" is not really what is going through your head.
I never saw combat. I was retired just before this all started and got in too late for the first one. I am not speaking from personal experience. But my brothers in my platoon have clearly relayed the message to me that while the first couple days of action were amazing, and seeing the impact of our training on the enemy was profound... the psychological toll paid doing dirty deeds weighed quickly and heavily on all of my friends. Today they are SEALs, but yesterday and perhaps tomorrow they are the guys partying next to you at the sandbar, or surfing in the lineup with you, drinking beer at PB Bar and Grill or working back home at a car dealership or something.
Try to remember that someone has to actually push the button. Let's hope those guys are not psychopaths.

[Sleeper CP]

We signed up for door kicking, tango shooting and hostage saving. We signed up for direct action raids, and we signed up for covert intelligence gathering missions and sneak and peaks.
We didn't sign up and go through all of that training to torture people.
But my brothers in my platoon have clearly relayed the message to me that while the first couple days of action were amazing, and seeing the impact of our training on the enemy was profound... the psychological toll paid doing dirty deeds weighed quickly and heavily on all of my friends. Today they are SEALs, but yesterday and perhaps tomorrow they are the guys partying next to you at the sandbar, or surfing in the lineup with you, drinking beer at PB Bar and Grill or working back home at a car dealership or something.
Try to remember that someone has to actually push the button. Let's hope those guys are not psychopaths.
Well said. I don't know how or when this will end, I can only pray that it does soon, but something tell's me this will be going on for years.
BTW Froggy, Happy Veterans Day, and thank you for your service, I truely appreciate it. Thank you
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover

[Schiada76]

I am not going to get on a soapbox on this one, but I will share a couple little pearls with all of you on my way out of this thread...
People are fighting this war every day. Both sides. They all believe in what they are doing, and they believe they are making a change for the better. Both sides. It is a war of a difference of opinion, and it has polarized two cultures on opposite sides of the world to hate each other.
That said, someone has to kick in the doors. Those are my friends doing that. They are kicking in the doors on houses where intel has led them (most likely HUMINT or "human intel") and trying to find weapons, bombs, documents or more likely than anything else... another story to work from and go kicking some more doors.
We signed up for door kicking, tango shooting and hostage saving. We signed up for direct action raids, and we signed up for covert intelligence gathering missions and sneak and peaks.
We didn't sign up and go through all of that training to torture people.
Every time we walk outside with our heads held high.
We choose the moral high ground because the guy that is being expected to sweat information out of the enemy could be the same guy two years later that you are going to go buy a boat from. We are Americans, first and foremost. If you heard the stories I have heard from seriously bad ass men about having to sweat someone and then leaving the room to throw up, you would be amazed. We aren't wired to be psychopaths. We are warriors, and warriors don't connect red to positive and black to negative. There is a monster, huge, vast, enormous gulf of difference between getting into a running gun battle to escape indian country to save your life, or attacking a superior enemy force to rescue someone etc... and using physical torture to gain intel.
Americans are not cut out for torturing people. Most of us anyway. All of my friends for sure.
Anyone who says "kill them all" or "turn the place into a glass parking lot" or any of the other bullshit diatribes I have heard spewed forth from this forum or myriad other gatherings of Americans has likely never been in a position to hold a soflam laser on a target waiting for a Hellfire to arrive. Or sat with people in crosshairs waiting for the initiation shot of your direct action.
"Kill 'em all" is not really what is going through your head.
I never saw combat. I was retired just before this all started and got in too late for the first one. I am not speaking from personal experience. But my brothers in my platoon have clearly relayed the message to me that while the first couple days of action were amazing, and seeing the impact of our training on the enemy was profound... the psychological toll paid doing dirty deeds weighed quickly and heavily on all of my friends. Today they are SEALs, but yesterday and perhaps tomorrow they are the guys partying next to you at the sandbar, or surfing in the lineup with you, drinking beer at PB Bar and Grill or working back home at a car dealership or something.
Try to remember that someone has to actually push the button. Let's hope those guys are not psychopaths.
Tell your team mates thank you for being the men that do kick those doors, that will live a hole for two weeks to paint a target, that will sacrifice their very lives so we can enjoy ours safely.
Lets all not forget what tomorrow is.

[boatsnblondes]

I am not going to get on a soapbox on this one, but I will share a couple little pearls with all of you on my way out of this thread...
People are fighting this war every day. Both sides. They all believe in what they are doing, and they believe they are making a change for the better. Both sides. It is a war of a difference of opinion, and it has polarized two cultures on opposite sides of the world to hate each other.
That said, someone has to kick in the doors. Those are my friends doing that. They are kicking in the doors on houses where intel has led them (most likely HUMINT or "human intel") and trying to find weapons, bombs, documents or more likely than anything else... another story to work from and go kicking some more doors.
We signed up for door kicking, tango shooting and hostage saving. We signed up for direct action raids, and we signed up for covert intelligence gathering missions and sneak and peaks.
We didn't sign up and go through all of that training to torture people.
Every time we walk outside with our heads held high.
We choose the moral high ground because the guy that is being expected to sweat information out of the enemy could be the same guy two years later that you are going to go buy a boat from. We are Americans, first and foremost. If you heard the stories I have heard from seriously bad ass men about having to sweat someone and then leaving the room to throw up, you would be amazed. We aren't wired to be psychopaths. We are warriors, and warriors don't connect red to positive and black to negative. There is a monster, huge, vast, enormous gulf of difference between getting into a running gun battle to escape indian country to save your life, or attacking a superior enemy force to rescue someone etc... and using physical torture to gain intel.
Americans are not cut out for torturing people. Most of us anyway. All of my friends for sure.
Anyone who says "kill them all" or "turn the place into a glass parking lot" or any of the other bullshit diatribes I have heard spewed forth from this forum or myriad other gatherings of Americans has likely never been in a position to hold a soflam laser on a target waiting for a Hellfire to arrive. Or sat with people in crosshairs waiting for the initiation shot of your direct action.
"Kill 'em all" is not really what is going through your head.
I never saw combat. I was retired just before this all started and got in too late for the first one. I am not speaking from personal experience. But my brothers in my platoon have clearly relayed the message to me that while the first couple days of action were amazing, and seeing the impact of our training on the enemy was profound... the psychological toll paid doing dirty deeds weighed quickly and heavily on all of my friends. Today they are SEALs, but yesterday and perhaps tomorrow they are the guys partying next to you at the sandbar, or surfing in the lineup with you, drinking beer at PB Bar and Grill or working back home at a car dealership or something.
Try to remember that someone has to actually push the button. Let's hope those guys are not psychopaths.
Well said, but, remember what our buddy George Patton said....
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
It's a dirty business bro, but we didn't start it....my best to your friends....BnB
And by the way Froggy, happy Veterans day to you, for all you do/did, I tip my hat....best to you...
One thing though froggy...at what point do we strip them of that humanity? At what point do we recognize them for what they truly are? God forbid they should capture your bro's over there, I don't think you have any misconceptions of the ramifications of being caught by them. The Germans, who were just as brutal, fought with more honor than these guys...at some point, we will have to get in the mud with them...strip them of any semblance of humanity, and dispose of them as the dogs they are....while I understand your buddies being sickened by the sight of it all, I fear the worst is yet to come....and it will get much worse, before it gets better...

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I am not going to get on a soapbox on this one, but I will share a couple little pearls with all of you on my way out of this thread...
People are fighting this war every day. Both sides. They all believe in what they are doing, and they believe they are making a change for the better. Both sides. It is a war of a difference of opinion, and it has polarized two cultures on opposite sides of the world to hate each other.
That said, someone has to kick in the doors. Those are my friends doing that. They are kicking in the doors on houses where intel has led them (most likely HUMINT or "human intel") and trying to find weapons, bombs, documents or more likely than anything else... another story to work from and go kicking some more doors.
We signed up for door kicking, tango shooting and hostage saving. We signed up for direct action raids, and we signed up for covert intelligence gathering missions and sneak and peaks.
We didn't sign up and go through all of that training to torture people.
Every time we walk outside with our heads held high.
We choose the moral high ground because the guy that is being expected to sweat information out of the enemy could be the same guy two years later that you are going to go buy a boat from. We are Americans, first and foremost. If you heard the stories I have heard from seriously bad ass men about having to sweat someone and then leaving the room to throw up, you would be amazed. We aren't wired to be psychopaths. We are warriors, and warriors don't connect red to positive and black to negative. There is a monster, huge, vast, enormous gulf of difference between getting into a running gun battle to escape indian country to save your life, or attacking a superior enemy force to rescue someone etc... and using physical torture to gain intel.
Americans are not cut out for torturing people. Most of us anyway. All of my friends for sure.
Anyone who says "kill them all" or "turn the place into a glass parking lot" or any of the other bullshit diatribes I have heard spewed forth from this forum or myriad other gatherings of Americans has likely never been in a position to hold a soflam laser on a target waiting for a Hellfire to arrive. Or sat with people in crosshairs waiting for the initiation shot of your direct action.
"Kill 'em all" is not really what is going through your head.
I never saw combat. I was retired just before this all started and got in too late for the first one. I am not speaking from personal experience. But my brothers in my platoon have clearly relayed the message to me that while the first couple days of action were amazing, and seeing the impact of our training on the enemy was profound... the psychological toll paid doing dirty deeds weighed quickly and heavily on all of my friends. Today they are SEALs, but yesterday and perhaps tomorrow they are the guys partying next to you at the sandbar, or surfing in the lineup with you, drinking beer at PB Bar and Grill or working back home at a car dealership or something.
Try to remember that someone has to actually push the button. Let's hope those guys are not psychopaths.
Wes, it's nice to know that there are people like you still around.
Very well said.