Global Warming-"Greatest Scam in History"

[Old Texan]

Come on Tex. Since none of us know but you, please tell us.
I have asked a question that I don't have a specific answer for and stated as such. Your lesson site is nothing new and goes directly back to my question.
Roll your eyes and exhibit your sarcasm if that's all you have, but I've posted a legitimate question far more on topic than your duel with Steve.
I thought someone that proffesses such concern for energy costs would perhaps take how pricing is established more seriously. Apparently I was wrong.

[Old Texan]

By the way, the commodities market sets the price. Speculators are running up the price.
The Commodities Market is a major factor in the prices I agree. But is this the "main" piece of the formula?
OPEC claims they are just following the "trend" but yet have a big hand in how much crude is released for world usage. This has a major effect on the supply side. Manipulation? China and India have fast growing demands and definitely effect the supply side but how much does this directly effect gas prices in regards to the futures?
The 2005 hurricane season had such an extreme effect on prices it leads me to suspect manipulation by either the oil companies or the markets. It's just hard to put a finger on any specifics.
My opinion on E85 is it isn't an answer to anything about rising prices. It is just an alternative to fossil fuel and not a longterm practical one in spite of the efforts of ConAgra and Archer to build numerous refining facilities.

[Schiada76]

It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy that the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.
It's a HUGE scam by the scum bag politicians and BIG AG. The leftwing oil company hating loons love it because they're too stupid to understand Ultra's post.
In the meantime the tree hugging America haters are blocking all proposed offshore LPG terminals here in the state of Fruits and Nuts.

[centerhill condor]

fourth and final UN report out today...these guys really like hearing themselves talk.
All of it is statistics...chance of such and such.
Me thinks a couple of Persian A bombs will help raise the temp much more than MMGW. Question of leadership..much easier to invent little green men than deal with the devil we can see.
You may not be aware the global warming that we have today began sometime ago and killed "giant mammals"...mankind was able to adapt and conquer the new "warmer" world.
Does no one recall the dust bowl of just 80 years ago? Was that MMGW or was it something else? and how did we end it? or did it just "go away"?
CC

[Propster]

It's my understanding that producing Ethanol from corn requires more energy than the product will produce. Or in other words, you can't produce a gallon of Ethanol, using the energy from a gallon of Ethanol.
Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.
From Wik
Producing corn is very energy intensive, and uses fossil fuels in virtually every step of the crop cycle: transporting and planting the seeds; operating farm equipment; making and applying fertilizer; and transporting the corn to market. Fertilizer, herbicide, and insecticide production consume the most fossil fuels. Fossil-fuel based fertilizers also contaminate the soil and groundwater, but they can not be replaced by natural fertilizer: there are not enough animals to provide the fertilizer to grow the corn necessary to produce all the grain-based ethanol needed to run American cars. And the herbicides and pesticides necessary to grow corn at an industrial scale leach into the groundwater, too.
There is an ongoing debate concerning the amount of energy it takes to produce ethanol from corn. For example, it takes energy equivalent to about one gallon of gasoline to make four pounds of nitrogen, the main ingredient in most fertilizer, and every one of the more than 15 million acres (61,000 km²) planted in corn is dusted with about 58 pounds of nitrogen. Given the variety of factors that go into growing corn, estimates vary widely about the amount of energy used: one estimate contends that it would require 1.5 gallons of ethanol to provide the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. Others challenge these conclusions, asserting that this analysis is based on obsolete data and miscalculated key energy values and does not account for the useful by-products, such as animal feed, of making ethanol; taking all that into account, ethanol could provide up to 40% more energy than is consumed in making it.
BTW, I am all for the use of enthanol and every other non-oil based energy. I view the US as needing to do everything that it can to kick it's dependence on foreign oil.
The issue of methanol production is debatable and I have not taken one position or another.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us
That makes two of us.

[Schiada76]

From Wik
Producing corn is very energy intensive, and uses fossil fuels in virtually every step of the crop cycle: transporting and planting the seeds; operating farm equipment; making and applying fertilizer; and transporting the corn to market. Fertilizer, herbicide, and insecticide production consume the most fossil fuels. Fossil-fuel based fertilizers also contaminate the soil and groundwater, but they can not be replaced by natural fertilizer: there are not enough animals to provide the fertilizer to grow the corn necessary to produce all the grain-based ethanol needed to run American cars. And the herbicides and pesticides necessary to grow corn at an industrial scale leach into the groundwater, too.
There is an ongoing debate concerning the amount of energy it takes to produce ethanol from corn. For example, it takes energy equivalent to about one gallon of gasoline to make four pounds of nitrogen, the main ingredient in most fertilizer, and every one of the more than 15 million acres (61,000 km²) planted in corn is dusted with about 58 pounds of nitrogen. Given the variety of factors that go into growing corn, estimates vary widely about the amount of energy used: one estimate contends that it would require 1.5 gallons of ethanol to provide the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline. Others challenge these conclusions, asserting that this analysis is based on obsolete data and miscalculated key energy values and does not account for the useful by-products, such as animal feed, of making ethanol; taking all that into account, ethanol could provide up to 40% more energy than is consumed in making it.
BTW, I am all for the use of enthanol and every other non-oil based energy. I view the US as needing to do everything that it can to kick it's dependence on foreign oil.
The issue of methanol production is debatable and I have not taken one position or another.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us
That makes two of us.
That makes three.
Drill ANWR and offshore NOW!

[AzMandella]

Just more BS from the oil companies. What do you expect, they are oil men, not farmers. From what I understand, it takes a gallon of oil to bring a gallon of oil to market if you figure the cost to drill, pump, collect, ship, refine, pump, truck the fuel. While it is obvious that it takes a lot of energy to bring oil to market, you wont hear it from them.
How does it work? They start with 2 gallons of oil!
Ethanol will get cheaper and more effecient to produce with the economy of scale and when more types of fermenting material come on line, including algea and ag waste technologies. Bio-diesel is beginning to be a big player too, as it less energy dependant to produce than alcohol. Brazil is a good example, they decided to wean themselves from imported oil during the last oil embargo. All of their vehicles are required to be able to run on locally produced ethanol and biodiesel.
I would like to see the money stay here, rather than hand it to h-holes that want to kill us.
YOu better do some more research. Yeah Brazil was trying to wean themselves of gasoline but it aint working. There they use sugar caine to produce ethanol. But they are now finding that they cannot raise sugar caine fast enought o replace what they use. So they are starting to run out of sugar cane. One study that I saw showed it would be near imposible for america to become completely dependent on ethanol as we could not grow enough fast enough to meet the national demand. Lets not forget that it takes twice as much ethanol as fuel to equal the same energy. They basicly said we would have to convert half the nation to crops. Not to mention the fact that the little ethanol we already use is starting to drive up the price of beef,poultry,pork,and dairy products because the ranchers and farmers are having to pay more for corn feed to feed the livestock because the corn farmers are getting top dollar to sell it to make ethanol. Ethanol is a good idea from the outside but is not good in the longrun. I just hate to see people forced to change to an alternative that is not a cure. Just another bandaid till we come up with the cure. I'd be more than happy to quit driving my fossil fuel vehicles if you could get the Liberal eco freaks and politicians to push nuclear for home and residential and hydrgen fusion for transportation. Hell most the nuclear technology is from the U.S but it's the rest of the world that's starting to use it.

[centerhill condor]

and we're all still here? I was under the impression this would be one of the worst hurricane season on the charts due to man made global warming and unless something happens in the next 20 hours we'll have yet another quiet season...is the computer model wrong?
And if we can't predict the weather one year accurately how on God's green earth can we do it 100 years out?
Just curious.
And on another note, Did you notice when the Gov of GA prayed for rain...it rained!
CC

[Old Texan]

and we're all still here? I was under the impression this would be one of the worst hurricane season on the charts due to man made global warming and unless something happens in the next 20 hours we'll have yet another quiet season...is the computer model wrong?
And if we can't predict the weather one year accurately how on God's green earth can we do it 100 years out?
Just curious.
And on another note, Did you notice when the Gov of GA prayed for rain...it rained!
CC
Actually God was involved. He looked down and saw that Cynthia McKinney was in town and just got her hair done up all big and puffy......Good time for a cloudburst.:devil:
Who says God ain't got a righteous sense of humor, eh?