Carbon monoxide in the channel

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by 91nordic29
i think the law enforcement that patrols the channel should drive those "fan" boats (i dont know the real name, the kind they use in the everglades). i am only HALF kidding.
LMFAO...great suggestion!!!!!

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by You Te
Some drunk dies now Lake Havasu gets sued and everyone has to pay for it.
I guess I will be filing a law suit against Lake Havasu because all those big boats they allow on the lake make the water so rough I now have stress cracks on the hull.
You Te
So how did this guy die? Was he hanging on the back of a boat with the engine running? Teak surfing? Stupid (that would be all of the above )?
Has there been measurements taken on the CO level there? I could see how it might hang around the bridge area cuz it's kind of like a minibowl...

[phebus]

I think they need to install speed bumps!

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Boatcop
What is the solution? Aside from installing catalyic converters on all our boats, I think the steps will be enacted by the city, such as no idling while beached, no loitering in the channel (boats keep moving through, rather than circling in one area), and one way traffic.
Alan, you are a real fart smeller er um uh...smart feller. For some stupid (operative word) reason I was under the impression that the catalytic converter was designed to reduce NO2 nitrous oxides, and not CO. WRONG!!! Just have a hell of a time figuring out how they could be adapted in the marine environment, but in fact Yamaha has already done so on some of their PWCs. So many of the newer jet skis are cleaner than the boats...
Go figure???

[eliminatedsprinter]

Originally posted by Boatcop
It's already illegal to swim in the channel.
As far as "banning 2-strokes", they are not the major offender. CO is the result of burning oxygen. You can get CO from a propane space heater or Coleman lantern or camp stove.
Smaller engines put out less CO than larger ones. Less combustion space = less CO. No, the major violators are the big block engines left idling or just cruising slow through the channel.
There may be more haze from the 2-strokes, but what you're seeing is unburned oil smoke, which in itself contans minimal CO. Maybe bad for visibility and irritating to the throat and nose, but not deadly.
You can't see or smell CO, nor are you aware when you're breathing it. By the time you feel the effects, you're already 1/2 way to death. Most mistake the symptoms for heat related illness, sea-sickness, or hang-over from the nght before.
What is the solution? Aside from installing catalyic converters on all our boats, I think the steps will be enacted by the city, such as no idling while beached, no loitering in the channel (boats keep moving through, rather than circling in one area), and one way traffic.
Fines will probably be pretty hefty for violations. They will have to recoup some of that lawsuit money somehow. Let the ones causing the problem pay for it.
Think about this if you have a place in the Keys, also. On major weekends with boats cruising through or idling at the dock for the stereo, there can be a substantial CO problem. Especially for kids swimming and those that commonly float around on air mats. Their faces are mere inches off the water surface, where the CO tends to linger.
A lot will tend to put the blame on the obvious polluters, such as PWCs and outboards, not realizing that their own boats are the major cause of the problem.
This is a great post and worthy of repeating.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Alan, you are a real fart smeller er um uh...smart feller. For some stupid (operative word) reason I was under the impression that the catalytic converter was designed to reduce NO2 nitrous oxides, and not CO. WRONG!!! Just have a hell of a time figuring out how they could be adapted in the marine environment, but in fact Yamaha has already done so on some of their PWCs. So many of the newer jet skis are cleaner than the boats...
Go figure???

You ar not wrong, they were first designed to reduce nitrates and hydrcarbons. I once made a post to that effect and Essex 502 went on the internet and looked up the latest scoop and set me straight. It turns out the newer more modern converters also significantly reduce Co as well as nitrates and hydrocarbons.
However, the big problem with them is their extreme heat. The bilge of a boat is no place for a device that uses that much heat. That is why the U.S. Coast Guard (at first at least ) opposed the idea..

[SHOTKALLIN]

so can METHANOL power a big block ***boat or not?

[Seadog]

They are looking at several things to reduce pollution and non of them are making the CG happy. Catalytic converters create a lot of heat and are a fire hazard. They are also talking about fuel recirc systems that require a pressurized fuel tank like all cars have today. The CG is real happy about that.

[Keith E. Sayre]

While they have now apparently proven that there are unsafe
amounts of CO in the channel on the 3 big summer weekends,
let's all practice a little common sense. And like Andy West
(Paradigm Shift) mentioned, why doesn't anyone take responsibilty for their own actions? There wasn't a sign in the
channel telling me not to go under the boat while the prop was
spinning and noone told me not to put my hand in my blower
belt while the engine is running, etc etc, etc,
While it is a huge tradgedy that the young man passed away
at our lake, my understanding from the news and the police was
that the doctor said it was from drowning/alcohol related and then he mentioned that CO poisoning could have been a
secondary cause. Without making light of a very delicate
situation, because my heart goes out to the family of the
deceased--if it was alcohol and drowning--why the lawsuit?
If I am totally incorrect in my assumptions, I apologize.
If you stand in the garage with the engine running, you will
most likely die. If you stand behind a car or truck or boat
in close enough proximity to the exhaust pipe, you could
die. I don't understand why the city has to fight a lawsuit
such as the ones that are heading our way.
Let's figure out a system that works for the 3 major holidays
and use a common sense approach. That way we can continue
having a fun and enjoyable time without anymore senseless
deaths.
Keith Sayre

[Havasuvian]

Well said, Keith.
Everyone can expect more on this topic after the LHC council meets in a few weeks to review the results of the summerlong CO study it commissioned last spring. I believe city staff will have a better idea of what changes may be in store by the end of this month. Stay tuned.
For the record, no lawsuits have been filed and no judgements have been rendered regarding any drownings last season. A claim for damages in one drowning death was filed with the city and is currently being processed administratively by the city's insurer. If that claim is denied, then the claimant may initiate legal procedings.
Charlie