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Rubths
07-20-2004, 10:32 AM
I was towing my boat to the river two months ago and was pulled over for speeding, the officer said he had me on radar at 85mph. I responded to the offer that I was not doing 85 and asked to see the radar, the officer said theres nothing to see the radar is blank, I was like let me get this straight you have me at 85 on radar but your radar gun is blank and you wont show me, the officer said I dont have to show you anything sign here and argue it to the judge.
My question:
If the CHP pulls you over and tells you they had you on radar at 85mph and you ask to see it do they have to show you??
I have to be in Winterhaven for this ticket in the morning:(

nmboats
07-20-2004, 10:39 AM
NO

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 10:44 AM
Arguing a radar ticket it tough because the CHP officer will testify that he witnessed you traveling at an excessive rate of speed which he estimated to be 85, he then confirmed it with the radar gun...
You do have the right to subpoena the records on that particular radar gun, serial number, model number, calibration dates and scores, etc. You also have the right to subpoena the officers performance records, the number of tickets written, ballistic test scores, etc.
Your problem is that your court date is tomorrow if I understand correctly so you would have to get a continuance in order to buy enough time to accumulate said records to argue your case...
Basically, unless you are prepared to go balls to the wall to argue your case the state has you over a barrel which really sucks....
Pay your highway use tax and move on...

Rubths
07-20-2004, 10:45 AM
Remember this is California not New Mexico and laws are different between states so are you sure about that?

Outnumbered
07-20-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Spotondl
Arguing a radar ticket it tough because the CHP officer will testify that he witnessed you traveling at an excessive rate of speed which he estimated to be 85, he then confirmed it with the radar gun...
You do have the right to subpoena the records on that particular radar gun, serial number, model number, calibration dates and scores, etc. You also have the right to subpoena the officers performance records, the number of tickets written, ballistic test scores, etc.
Your problem is that your court date is tomorrow if I understand correctly so you would have to get a continuance in order to buy enough time to accumulate said records to argue your case...
Basically, unless you are prepared to go balls to the wall to argue your case the state has you over a barrel which really sucks....
Pay your highway use tax and move on...
Dont give up so quick. Show up and if he no shows you will get off. If he shows the judge may be cool and give you a last chance traffic school. Don't just pay and take it in the ass, especially if you were not really doing 85.
OL

Rubths
07-20-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Spotondl
Arguing a radar ticket it tough because the CHP officer will testify that he witnessed you traveling at an excessive rate of speed which he estimated to be 85, he then confirmed it with the radar gun...
You do have the right to subpoena the records on that particular radar gun, serial number, model number, calibration dates and scores, etc. You also have the right to subpoena the officers performance records, the number of tickets written, ballistic test scores, etc.
Your problem is that your court date is tomorrow if I understand correctly so you would have to get a continuance in order to buy enough time to accumulate said records to argue your case...
Basically, unless you are prepared to go balls to the wall to argue your case the state has you over a barrel which really sucks....
Pay your highway use tax and move on...
If it wouldnt effect me so bad I would just pay it becuase of the hassle this is but my Wife is a speeder and has 2 tickets on her record that effect our insurance and with this ticket our insurance will go through the ROOOOOOF
So for me to get a continuance and subpoena all these records what do I say to the judge in the morning?

nmboats
07-20-2004, 10:49 AM
Or simply ask the Officer or Judge for a deferment.

Rubths
07-20-2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Old Lavey
Dont give up so quick. Show up and if he no shows you will get off. If he shows the judge may be cool and give you a last chance traffic school. Don't just pay and take it in the ass, especially if you were not really doing 85.
OL
I had my cruise set at 55 and had passed one of those slow moving mexican plated cars so I may have excellerated to 60 when passing but now way 85mph. By the way he said he was being nice by only writting me for 75:yuk:

Rubths
07-20-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by nmboats
Or simply ask the Officer or Judge for a deferment.
Whats that?

XtrmWakeborder
07-20-2004, 10:53 AM
hmm i thought they had to show u. Also sometimes you might just ask the officer next time when the gun was calibrated last....i did that last time, and it kinda scared him off i guess...i got a warning

nmboats
07-20-2004, 10:59 AM
30,60, or 90 days defered. If you can go the specified number of days without another ticket if will fall off you driving reccord. The Officer can agree to this before you even see the Judge.
The Officer does not have to let you out of your vehicle to view the radar, because this can be considered an Officer safety issue.

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 11:16 AM
Is tomorrow your actual trial date or just the date that you are to be arraigned?
In order for you to have a trial you need to be arraigned at which point you plead "Not Guilty". If you plead "Guilty" or "No Contest" there is no need for a trial....
A trial date will be set some 30 - 45 days away. At that time the officer will be subpeona'd for the trial. You have the right in the interum to obtain your documents on the radar/laser gun and the officer performance records.
I have never heard of a deferrement in the state of California as it has been described here.... Thinking kinda fantasy island...
If tomorrow IS your trial date and you need more time to get your case together then simply tell the judge that you need more time to prepare your case and ask if he could grant you a "continuance" for 60 days or so... That is a matter of procedure and the judge will be happy to give it to you. Makes his day go faster so he can get to the golf course that much earlier....
Old Lavey is correct though, if tomorrow is your actual trial date and the officer is a no show, your case gets dismissed immediately.
OL is correct as well in that, in the case you lose, you can still ask the judge to give you traffic school, if you qualify (haven't attended TS in the last 18 months)... Doesn't mean he will but it is worth a try. Had one judge tell me "No, you don't need traffic school to teach you not to drive over the speed limit"... I paid the $$$

LaveyJet
07-20-2004, 11:20 AM
Your best bet is to ask for traffic school. If you do, the insurance guys won't even know about it. If you were doing 75 pulling a trailer, your going to have to ask the Judge, it's not an automatic for the clerk.

BADBLOWN572
07-20-2004, 11:26 AM
There are a couple of different ways to go about this. Where I have always had good luck is not to subpoena anything and request it at the time of trial. Chances are the judge will say that if you had wanted the calibration reccords, printouts, etc... you should have requested that they be brought. At that point in time, you answer "Isn't it the accuser's job to prove guilt not the accused's job to prove innocence?"
I have pulled that one twice and worked both times. One time they said that the officer has the ability to determine speed based off of experience. I said "the officer's visual experience is more accurate than my speedometer?" At the end it comes down to your word versus his. If he refused to show the radar read out, that will throw doubt into his story and you should come out ahead.
Another big thing if pulled over on the way to the river is to Always ask for the county seat!!! All the way up to the bridge in Parker is either San Bernardino County or Riverside County. Both of which has their courhouse in Riverside. If you got a ticket just before you cross the bridge in Parker and you request the county seat, your court case would have to be heard in Riverside. The chances of an officer driving 3-4 hours each way to appear for a traffic ticket are slim and none. Otherwise if you don't request it, your case would be heard at the closest courthouse to where the ticket was issued and you would be the one doing the driving.

Ultracrazy
07-20-2004, 11:29 AM
The officer said 85 and you say no more than 60?? Hmmmmmm.........don't waste your time.......sounds like even if the judge splits the difference......you were going over 55.....plus......by your own addmission......you were going over 55. Pay the ticket.

Lightning
07-20-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Spotondl
OL is correct as well in that, in the case you lose, you can still ask the judge to give you traffic school, if you qualify (haven't attended TS in the last 18 months)... Doesn't mean he will but it is worth a try. Had one judge tell me "No, you don't need traffic school to teach you not to drive over the speed limit"... I paid the $$$
Even if you have been to traffic school in the last 18 months, you can request "level 2" traffic school.
For future reference, when he is writing the ticket, you can always ask for "County seat jursidiction" under CVC 40502(b) - this is a section of the law that would transfer the ticket from whatever county you are getting the ticket in to the county you reside it. Imperial county to San Diego county in this situation. Then the cop has to come to San Diego for the court.

Roxysnow
07-20-2004, 11:32 AM
Traffic school is something you don't have to ask for. You can go to traffic school once every 18 months per ticket and it will avoid hitting your insurance. You don't have to wait for your court date either. Just go to the court house, pay the fine and ask for traffic school. The clerk will give you a list of approved schools.

Huckleberry
07-20-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Spotondl
Is tomorrow your actual trial date or just the date that you are to be arraigned?
In order for you to have a trial you need to be arraigned at which point you plead "Not Guilty". If you plead "Guilty" or "No Contest" there is no need for a trial....
A trial date will be set some 30 - 45 days away. At that time the officer will be subpeona'd for the trial. You have the right in the interum to obtain your documents on the radar/laser gun and the officer performance records.
I have never heard of a deferrement in the state of California as it has been described here.... Thinking kinda fantasy island...
If tomorrow IS your trial date and you need more time to get your case together then simply tell the judge that you need more time to prepare your case and ask if he could grant you a "continuance" for 60 days or so... That is a matter of procedure and the judge will be happy to give it to you. Makes his day go faster so he can get to the golf course that much earlier....
Old Lavey is correct though, if tomorrow is your actual trial date and the officer is a no show, your case gets dismissed immediately.
OL is correct as well in that, in the case you lose, you can still ask the judge to give you traffic school, if you qualify (haven't attended TS in the last 18 months)... Doesn't mean he will but it is worth a try. Had one judge tell me "No, you don't need traffic school to teach you not to drive over the speed limit"... I paid the $$$
This is some of the nest advice I've seen from a non-law enforcement person. and to repeat what has already been said...NO, the officer doesn't have to show you the radar gun, even if he had locked in the speed. The radar is used to confirm his visual estimate of your speed.
Don't be upset with the CHP officer, as he's really not a cop if you ask most cops. Just remember what CHP stands for:
C an't
H andle
P olicework!

Roxysnow
07-20-2004, 11:34 AM
For future reference, when he is writing the ticket, you can always ask for "County seat jursidiction" under CVC 40502(b) - this is a section of the law that would transfer the ticket from whatever county you are getting the ticket in to the county you reside it. Imperial county to San Diego county in this situation. Then the cop has to come to San Diego for the court. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is good if you want to fight it too. Or make it difficult for the officer.

Rubths
07-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Ultracrazy
The officer said 85 and you say no more than 60?? Hmmmmmm.........don't waste your time.......sounds like even if the judge splits the difference......you were going over 55.....plus......by your own addmission......you were going over 55. Pay the ticket.
Originally posted by Rubths
I had my cruise set at 55 and had passed one of those slow moving mexican plated cars so I may have excellerated to 60 when passing
I said I MAY HAVE not I was doing 60;)
This is the first court date to show on this ticket not my trial date.

Rubths
07-20-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Roxysnow
For future reference, when he is writing the ticket, you can always ask for "County seat jursidiction" under CVC 40502(b) - this is a section of the law that would transfer the ticket from whatever county you are getting the ticket in to the county you reside it. Imperial county to San Diego county in this situation. Then the cop has to come to San Diego for the court.
This is good if you want to fight it too. Or make it difficult for the officer. [/B][/QUOTE]
I asked for a change of venue and the officer said No they dont do that.

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
Where I have always had good luck is not to subpoena anything and request it at the time of trial. Chances are the judge will say that if you had wanted the calibration reccords, printouts, etc... you should have requested that they be brought.
That reminds me of a similar situation I was in...
Laser ticket where the cop targeted me at 74 at 730 yards...
When it came to trial I asked for the ballistic test scores for officer bob and they were not available. The judge asked what the relevance was and I told him that "at 730 yards it would take a master marksman to hit a 6 foot moving target and that I wanted to know if officer bob had been rated as such in his ballistic training and testing. Who knows, maybe officer bob was supercop???"
Got a chuckle from the peanut gallery at least....
Case was eventually dismissed because there were tree's blocking his view of anything at 500 + yards and I produced photographic evidence to prove it....
Fight every ticket, be a pain in the city's, county's, state's collective a$$...

TIBURON
07-20-2004, 11:46 AM
Hey would that county seat stuff work if you get a ticket in Havasu?

Huckleberry
07-20-2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by TIBURON
Hey would that county seat stuff work if you get a ticket in Havasu?
Not likely. This is a California law that allows you to moved tha case to your County seat. Arizona may have a similar law, but you would have to move it to another County seat within Arizona, and you would have to live in that County. Nice try though! ;)

TIBURON
07-20-2004, 11:51 AM
:frown:

TIBURON
07-20-2004, 11:54 AM
I have invested in a good radar detector and it has worked for me so far. CHP mostly always have it on the 10, and it gives me a few miles to slow down.

DrinkinSpeed
07-20-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
There are a couple of different ways to go about this. Where I have always had good luck is not to subpoena anything and request it at the time of trial. Chances are the judge will say that if you had wanted the calibration reccords, printouts, etc... you should have requested that they be brought. At that point in time, you answer "Isn't it the accuser's job to prove guilt not the accused's job to prove innocence?"
I have pulled that one twice and worked both times. One time they said that the officer has the ability to determine speed based off of experience. I said "the officer's visual experience is more accurate than my speedometer?" At the end it comes down to your word versus his. If he refused to show the radar read out, that will throw doubt into his story and you should come out ahead.
Another big thing if pulled over on the way to the river is to Always ask for the county seat!!! All the way up to the bridge in Parker is either San Bernardino County or Riverside County. Both of which has their courhouse in Riverside. If you got a ticket just before you cross the bridge in Parker and you request the county seat, your court case would have to be heard in Riverside. The chances of an officer driving 3-4 hours each way to appear for a traffic ticket are slim and none. Otherwise if you don't request it, your case would be heard at the closest courthouse to where the ticket was issued and you would be the one doing the driving.
Why would anyone think that San Bernardino County seat is in Riverside County. Sorry, but it is in San Bernardino and if you got the ticket before you crossed the bridge into Parker then off to the San Bernardino County seat you go in beautiful downtown San Bernardino. There's only two papers that you would need to request and those don't need a subpoena to get them, the offficer has to produce them when presenting his case. One is the daily log that lists the fact he calibrated the instrument before and after his shift (Calibration)and the other is the one from that does the internal calibration which is required to be certified every three years. Your best bet other than traffic school would have been "Trial by declaration" meaning I can't get out there but want to fight the ticket. Going that way gives you time to type up a plausible story that could be true and the officer responds in writing. This way the judge can give you the benifit of doubt and not upset the officer by finding you not guilty. Not to mention you save a lot of time and gas money by not having to drive to court or take off time from work. Hope that helps someone since it's apparently to late for you this time. Good Luck.

DrinkinSpeed
07-20-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Roxysnow
For future reference, when he is writing the ticket, you can always ask for "County seat jursidiction" under CVC 40502(b) - this is a section of the law that would transfer the ticket from whatever county you are getting the ticket in to the county you reside it. Imperial county to San Diego county in this situation. Then the cop has to come to San Diego for the court.
This is good if you want to fight it too. Or make it difficult for the officer. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is also incorrect. If your quoting the California Vehicle Code, go back and read the section again. They don't transfer citations from one county to another county. Oh yeah, you'll really upset the cop too, make him drive the patrol car with the city or states gas on OVERTIME to to fight you. He'll be upset all the way to the bank.

Rubths
07-20-2004, 01:28 PM
I just got ahold of the courts out in Winterhaven and they extended my court date to Aug 18 to enter a plea so I have some time now to figure out if its worth fighting or I should just go to traffic school. My bail is $393 and an extra $20 if I want traffic school. My fear is that if I loose the judge will not allow me the opportunity to attend traffic school and it will go against my record.

Three Days Only
07-20-2004, 01:32 PM
Here is the Vehicle Code for CVC40502(B)
40502. The place specified in the notice to appear shall be any of
the following:
(a) Before a magistrate within the county in which the offense
charged is alleged to have been committed and who has jurisdiction of
the offense and is nearest or most accessible with reference to the
place where the arrest is made.
(b) Upon demand of the person arrested, before a judge or other
magistrate having jurisdiction of the offense at the county seat of
the county in which the offense is alleged to have been committed.
This subdivision applies only if the person arrested resides, or the
person's principal place of employment is located, closer to the
county seat than to the magistrate nearest or most accessible to the
place where the arrest is made.
You can get the county seat as long as you reside or work closer to the county seat then the magistrate. Plain and simple!!! But it sounds like this demand most be made before a judge, not the officer. Unless of course the officer has jurisdication to the offense being that he works inside of that county or magistrate.

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 01:34 PM
Trial by declaration is a joke....
Actually expecting the judge to read and seriously consider your argument via letter is wishful thinking at best... The court system is a money generating machine for the government. An undefended traffic ticket is easy pickens... "Guilty, pay up Bucko...."
If you are going to half a$$ fight a ticket then you are much better off requesting traffic school, again, if you qualify. Be careful because judges can, and often do, approve traffic school based on the defendants testimony that they qualify or are requesting some leniency...
DMV will flat refuse to accept your traffic school certificate and the point will go on your record.
If you are going to fight, fight hard, fight fair, and at the very least, get your moneys worth....

Krazy K
07-20-2004, 01:57 PM
Talking about long distance tickets got me to thinking about one I received in the Spring of 2001.
I was living up here at the time. I went down to SoCal for a couple weeks to visit. I was staying in Lake Forest at the time and decided to go get something to eat. I did a"California Stop" and rolled through the stop sign. Immediately, I see lights go on and I'm at the side of the road. Long story short, I obviously couldn't fight it as I lived up here. Ended up writing into the court and explaining what happened. Well, the cop is supposed to do the same thing, but he never did, so I had the ticket dismissed.

Krazy K
07-20-2004, 02:02 PM
You guys are lucky....they don't even offer Traffic School here.....unless the ticket is dismissed, it's on your record for 3 years.

MudPumper
07-20-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Rubths
I had my cruise set at 55
C'mon who tows at 55??? Nobody that's who, not even the truckers who are the biggest most obvious targets on the road. You try telling this to the judge and he's gonna arrest you for lying to him. ;) :D :D Maybe the boat made it look like you were going really fast and he got confused. Like that commercial where the cop pulls over the car that is parked on the road, because it looks fast.:D :D

Rubths
07-20-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by MudPumper
C'mon who tows at 55??? Nobody that's who, not even the truckers who are the biggest most obvious targets on the road. You try telling this to the judge and he's gonna arrest you for lying to him. ;) :D :D Maybe the boat made it look like you were going really fast and he got confused. Like that commercial where the cop pulls over the car that is parked on the road, because it looks fast.:D :D
I tow at 55 because I have had my share of tires blowing out and axle bearing go bad while speeding and it tought me a valuable lesson to tow at 55! I usually have two young kids in the truck as well as 2 big dogs and its not worth there lives or mine to get there 30 minutes faster besides the fact I wont get there till 11:00pm anyways.

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 02:59 PM
You guys are the best sidewalk lawyers EVER.
Tell the judge maybe aliens entered your body and he will believe that like, the rest of these stories.......
Wait better yet tell him all your buddies on HB said you are demanding Evidence.
Im pretty sure that in order for evidence to be submitted and accecpted in court it must be ordered in advance and to request a delay for this. YEAH RIGHT, ITS A SPEEDING TICKET, NOT MURDER......

Rubths
07-20-2004, 03:02 PM
55 may be laughable but it is true;)

Jrocket
07-20-2004, 03:03 PM
http://www.***boat.com/forums/avatar.php?userid=6849&dateline=1090088014
Now that shits funny right there,oh yes it is!!:D

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 03:04 PM
Maybe this guy gave you the ticket, he was pissed you were going to the river and he wasnt
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1617OP6_STICKER1-med.JPG

Rubths
07-20-2004, 03:11 PM
I know there are a few peeps on this board that pass my slow ass pulling this yellow boat to Martinez every other weekend that can attest to my speeds?

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Wait better yet tell him all your buddies on HB said you are demanding Evidence.
Im pretty sure that in order for evidence to be submitted and accecpted in court it must be ordered in advance and to request a delay for this. YEAH RIGHT, ITS A SPEEDING TICKET, NOT MURDER......
Originally posted by Rubths
I just got ahold of the courts out in Winterhaven and they extended my court date to Aug 18 to enter a plea so I have some time now to figure out if its worth fighting or I should just go to traffic school.
Nobody here claimed the traffic courts were EFFICIENT... Read the prior post, he already got 1 continuance over the phone, and that was simply for the arraignment...
Sometimes, between the arraignment and the actual trial, with several continuances, you can actualy procrastinate long enough to get yourself into the traffic school eligibility window... Some of these stupid cases can take as long as 6 to 9 months, if not longer...

91nordic29
07-20-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Maybe this guy gave you the ticket, he was pissed you were going to the river and he wasnt
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1617OP6_STICKER1-med.JPG
miguel--
that is TOOOO funny!!!!:D

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Spotondl
Nobody here claimed the traffic courts were EFFICIENT... Read the prior post, he already got 1 continuance over the phone, and that was simply for the arraignment...
Sometimes, between the arraignment and the actual trial, with several continuances, you can actualy procrastinate long enough to get yourself into the traffic school eligibility window... Some of these stupid cases can take as long as 6 to 9 months, if not longer...
Relax TURBO, are you the Judge on this case? Did I strike a nerve.
If you are trying to weasel your way into the 18month traffic school you have ISSUES! That is two tickets in twelve months.....

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Relax TURBO, are you the Judge on this case? Did I strike a nerve.
If you are trying to weasel your way into the 18month traffic school you have ISSUES! That is two tickets in twelve months.....
No worries mate... No nerves struck... No TURBO Spot... ;)
I just happen to drive real fast. Not sure if that qualifies as having "issues"?
Is 2 tickets in 12 months that out of the ordinary here in LA?

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 07:04 PM
Maybe , maybe not,
But the first ticket should slow you down, Insurance can get expensive and it sucks to sit on a bus stop at 30, 35, 40, 45 etc because you lost your license....

burtandnancy
07-20-2004, 07:20 PM
Don't be a jerk! You were going over 55, you had me by at least 15. You got away with it for a long time, now you have to pay. Go to traffic school (if you haven't already) and get over it...

mike37
07-20-2004, 07:30 PM
My wife got a ticket for a California stop dismissed
She has a heads up display in her car it takes about 1 second to got to 0mph after a stop
She went over all this in court
The officer told his story
The judge ask her why she think the officer would make a mistake like that
She told the judge she did not know maybe the same reason he wrote farmers insurance wen my insurance card clearly says state farm
Case dismissed

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by burtandnancy
Don't be a jerk! You were going over 55, you had me by at least 15. You got away with it for a long time, now you have to pay. Go to traffic school (if you haven't already) and get over it...
OUCH:eek:

FREIND OF AA AND TA
07-20-2004, 08:03 PM
I have always asked for the radar units calibration paper work and the actual radar unit involved. When the judge asks me why I simply tell him I want to compare the serial #s on the paper work to the gun. Twice the officer did not bring in the gun because its mounted in the car. Both times off! The judge gets pissed and all the other monkey cops laugh! NICE!:D

Rubths
07-20-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by burtandnancy
Don't be a jerk! You were going over 55, you had me by at least 15. You got away with it for a long time, now you have to pay. Go to traffic school (if you haven't already) and get over it...
Who are you refering to?

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by FREIND OF AA AND TA
I have always asked for the radar units calibration paper work and the actual radar unit involved. When the judge asks me why I simply tell him I want to compare the serial #s on the paper work to the gun. Twice the officer did not bring in the gun because its mounted in the car. Both times off! The judge gets pissed and all the other monkey cops laugh! NICE!:D
I find that Almost next to impossible to believe.
If that was true every person in the state would use that against the CHP and everyone would get off. You are leaving out some facts....

PlyaPlya22
07-20-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Maybe this guy gave you the ticket, he was pissed you were going to the river and he wasnt
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1617OP6_STICKER1-med.JPG
I bet that guy parties like a rockstar

Jrocket
07-20-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by PlyaPlya22
I bet that guy parties like a rockstar
I bet he needs a bigger boat.:D

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 08:53 PM
Not sure what the statistics are but I would guess that 98% of the traffic citations that are written are handled either simply by paying the fine on the "courtesy notice" or arranging for traffic school by paying the fine plus an admin fee.
This type of complacency breeds ineptitude at least and corruption at worst when it comes to traffic enforcement.
Those of us that fight these tickets are a thorn in the side of traffic enforcement everywhere. As soon as something is out of the ordinary in a particular case the establishment will make the case disappear by dismissing it. Would not want to disrupt a cash cow from its intended purpose. However, it is fighters like us that can put a stop to an illegal speed trap or stop bogus photo traffic tickets.
Case in point... Look at all the photo enforced intersection tickets that have been written & paid by the complacent masses... I have read of at least 3 different intersections in the past month where the photo enforcement was inaccurate or the duration of the yellow light was not correct. Hundreds of cases dismissed....
How many other intersections are zapping people inaccurately.
We all have a right to defend ourselves and I choose to do just that, with some modicum of success, when necessary. It IS the Republican thing to do....
Keep Big Brother off my a$$...

Bre
07-20-2004, 09:01 PM
I haven't read through all of this. But you must have been an asshole to the cop. Or he was just a big asshole. Because I think there is a recall button on most radar guns. I don't think he has to show you shit either. Good luck, but I think the cops gonna win this one.
Just my .02:)

Jrocket
07-20-2004, 09:02 PM
Every ticket that Ive ever got I was in the wrong and never fought it.The one time and only one time that I got a ticket and was not breaking the law and fought it,I lost my ass.The judge never even gave me the time of day.He never paid attention to what I had to say,his mind was made up from the get go.I asked the cop questions that he couldnt answer correctly and had him actually contradict himself on his stories.I still lost.The judge can do what he wants.Oh well,what can ya do.

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 09:07 PM
Wow,
Speak the whole case not just one point. Private industry ran and operated those lights, NOT THE MAN.
So place the blame where it belongs. The citizens who were making the money were ripping off the citizens, NOT THE MAN.
As soon as something is out of the ordinary in a particular case the establishment will make the case disappear by dismissing it
yeah its called the officer made a mistake and the system recoginzes this and declares the person Innocent. What a novel Idea...

Jdbuck
07-20-2004, 09:13 PM
Are you sure people don't plead guilty and pay fines because...perhaps they are guilty?
If you spend anytime around LA or Orange County I am sure you have seen plenty of examples of why traffic enforcement is necessary. If you travel out the 40 to the lake I am sure you have seen plenty of examples of why "big brother" needs to be on peoples "asses"! Way too many injuries and deaths to innocent people, because others can't control themselves.
Anyhow, off my soap box and sliding back into the woodwork....
:yuk:

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 09:16 PM
I saw this accident today,
This guy who was speeding
YES SPEEDING
Ran a red light
YES RED LIGHT
and T-boned a 77 year old woman who was driving thru the light on a green.
Damn the man must have set that guy up.... in an attempt to get more cash....

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Wow,
Speak the whole case not just one point. Private industry ran and operated those lights, NOT THE MAN.
So place the blame where it belongs. The citizens who were making the money were ripping off the citizens, NOT THE MAN.
I agree 100% with you here... Unfortunately, it is the private companies and the cooperating city governments that allow the churning and timing errors to make up for their own budget shortfalls. Tickets are a cash cow and it is only going to get worse as govt. spending increases and budgets shrink... Thank the libs for that....
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
As soon as something is out of the ordinary in a particular case the establishment will make the case disappear by dismissing it
yeah its called the officer made a mistake and the system recoginzes this and declares the person Innocent. What a novel Idea...
If you simply pay the $$$ amount on the courtesy notice you never even have a chance to show that the officer MAY have made a mistake. As such the system will never recognize this and declare the person innocent...

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 09:29 PM
The bottom line is,
IF YOU DID IT, fess up be aman or a woman pay the fine and move on, Think of all the crap you do get away with daily.......

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
I saw this accident today,
This guy who was speeding
YES SPEEDING
Ran a red light
YES RED LIGHT
and T-boned a 77 year old woman who was driving thru the light on a green.
Damn the man must have set that guy up.... in an attempt to get more cash....
I am not espousing that every ticket is a conspiracy...
I am simply saying that if you feel that you were ticketed unfairly or inaccurately then you should feel compelled to defend yourself.
Sorry to hear of that accident, if it really happened. I doubt though that photo enforcement would have prevented that one. Sounds like the guy wasn't paying attention....
O, BTW, nice boat.....

Spotondl
07-20-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Jdbuck
Are you sure people don't plead guilty and pay fines because...perhaps they are guilty?
If you spend anytime around LA or Orange County I am sure you have seen plenty of examples of why traffic enforcement is necessary. If you travel out the 40 to the lake I am sure you have seen plenty of examples of why "big brother" needs to be on peoples "asses"! Way too many injuries and deaths to innocent people, because others can't control themselves.
Anyhow, off my soap box and sliding back into the woodwork....
:yuk:
Most people who plead guilty are ignorant.... One should never plead guilty.... Plead "No Contest/Nolo Contendre" always... Same effect in terms of fine and such but the charge cannot be used against you at some point in the future.

Kilrtoy
07-20-2004, 09:40 PM
Scamatics, Yes the accident did happen.
Everyone that gets a ticket thinks it was unfair, why them and not the one next to them.
Im a cute girl,
im a mexican
the cop was jealous of my car,
the cop was picking on me.
I have gotten my fair share of tickets and I DESERVED EVERYONE ONE THEM.
There was a few years insurance got real expensive, I learned.....

locogringo
07-21-2004, 12:12 AM
here's my story...
over the last 7 years I drive about 200-250 miles a day. I have received 8 tickets in that time period. I have gotten out of all but 1 of them by following these steps...
1. Get an extension before the arraingement date. They will either give you one month extension or a two month extension at once. If you get a one month extension, call before that one is due and you are allowed one more (in California).
2. Show up at court and plead not guilty.
3. By now over 3 months have pased and in 5 of the eight times, the officer didn't show and the case got dismissed. The two times he showed up, one time he told the judge that he didn;t remember anything about the case and ask that it be dismissed and the other time I agreed with the officers side and asked if I could take traffic school and he said yes. Numer 8 failed miserably even with added questions directed to officer and it went on my drivers lic. Last year was the three year date so I again have a clean record.
I just got a ticket for going 75 in a 70 (15 freeway South in Lake Elsinore on April Fool's Day) I thought it was a joke but he was serious. Go figure. That court date is set for August so we shall see how this process works for me. If not, then trafic school again.
Some would say that 8 tickets show a lack of responsibility on my part. Add up the numbers and you'll see that driving 170,000 miles in a three year period would equate out to a normal driver getting a ticket every three years.

locogringo
07-21-2004, 12:14 AM
one more tidbit...
if you get a ticket on a non-highway street you can ask for a "traffic survey and evaluation report" and the officer has to have it or the case has to be dismissed.

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by locogringo
one more tidbit...
if you get a ticket on a non-highway street you can ask for a "traffic survey and evaluation report" and the officer has to have it or the case has to be dismissed.
I think you mean RADAR/LIDAR ticket. That's what the survey's are for. It won't help you for stop sign/light violations. And be careful... certain streets do not require survey's.
Best way to get out of a speeding ticket....
Don't speed! :)
John (RADAR/LIDAR Instructor)

SILVERWING
07-21-2004, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Kokopelli
I think you mean RADAR/LIDAR ticket. That's what the survey's are for. It won't help you for stop sign/light violations. And be careful... certain streets do not require survey's.
Best way to get out of a speeding ticket....
Don't speed! :)
John (RADAR/LIDAR Instructor)
I received a speeding ticket in a race buugy in the middle of the desert. I was testing the car out and was light up from a park ranger who said I was speeding. I told her she was f***ing nuts and I did actually say those words to her. She gave me a ticket for going 30mph and the limit was 15mph. Well the old saying see you in court, well I went to court judge threw it out. I don't normally stop for those jokers when they light me up but that time I did, never again.

Rubths
07-21-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
The bottom line is,
IF YOU DID IT, fess up be aman or a woman pay the fine and move on, Think of all the crap you do get away with daily.......
So what your saying is I should pay for this ticket because of other shit I get away with? **** that if you want to get screwed by the man and not fight for your rights your a laydown suckass and deserve to have everyone take your money! Not me pal this ticket was wrong and I will Fight it all he way! If I was in the wrong I would pay this and go to traffic school insted of driving 200 miles each way to try and defend my guilty self but I wasnt speeding, he never had me on radar and this cop was a dick that thought I would lay down like Kilrtoy and pay up.

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Rubths
So what your saying is I should pay for this ticket because of other shit I get away with? **** that if you want to get screwed by the man and not fight for your rights your a laydown suckass and deserve to have everyone take your money! Not me pal this ticket was wrong and I will Fight it all he way! If I was in the wrong I would pay this and go to traffic school insted of driving 200 miles each way to try and defend my guilty self but I wasnt speeding, he never had me on radar and this cop was a dick that thought I would lay down like Kilrtoy and pay up.
Fight on my brother good luck,
keep us posted.

Dr. Eagle
07-21-2004, 08:45 AM
Last time I got a ticket the officer offered for me to come to the car and see for myself... sounds a little fishy...:confused:

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 08:56 AM
Last time I got a ticket the officer offered for me to come to the car and see for myself... sounds a little fishy
must have been a tuna boat:D

totenhosen
07-21-2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by mike37
My wife got a ticket for a California stop dismissed
She has a heads up display in her car it takes about 1 second to got to 0mph after a stop
She went over all this in court
The officer told his story
The judge ask her why she think the officer would make a mistake like that
She told the judge she did not know maybe the same reason he wrote farmers insurance wen my insurance card clearly says state farm
Case dismissed
It is CA law that a ticket can not be dismissed for clerical errors. You got lucky.

totenhosen
07-21-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by locogringo
here's my story...
I just got a ticket for going 75 in a 70 (15 freeway South in Lake Elsinore on April Fool's Day) I thought it was a joke but he was serious. Go figure. That court date is set for August so we shall see how this process works for me. If not, then trafic school again.
It was always my unerstanding (at least in Pasadena traffic court) that the judge will not allow you to go to traffic school if you fight the ticket. Is this jsut a particular judge or ???
In addition I'm surprised that the cops didn't show up to court. Again in Pasadena the Sgt will write-up/demerit his officers if they do not go to court and defend their tickets. It is almost guaranteed that they show up.

Mike67rs
07-21-2004, 09:46 AM
Spend some time in traffic court in your local jurisdiction. You will see which defenses work and which don't. I think after watching some cases, you may decide to take the traffic school and write it off to experience, regardless of whether you are right or wrong. Police officers are generally given more credibility than the violator in cases of one word against the other. Go to trial, if the officer doesn't show you win...if he does, take your last chance at traffic school. Just my 2 cents.
In addition I'm surprised that the cops didn't show up to court. Again in Pasadena the Sgt will write-up/demerit his officers if they do not go to court and defend their tickets. It is almost guaranteed that they show up.
This is true, unless the officer has an excuse (vacation, sick leave, another court case). Traffic cases, when set, cannot be rescheduled in most jurisdicitons.

Spotondl
07-21-2004, 10:22 AM
Officers not showing up may be surprising to some but how many of us have had a case dismissed because the officer did not show for whatever reason....
I personally have had 2 cases dismissed for an officer no-show.

Spotondl
07-21-2004, 10:30 AM
Several years ago I got a favorable judgement by asking the CHP officer some very pointed questions about her ticket. The ticket was for passing after a white "No Passing" regulatory sign...
I was able to get her to vascilate on the actual offense. During her testimony she claimed that I had passed after the broken white line stopped at the lane merge, at which point the judge asked me if I wanted more time to prepare for the NEW offense that the CHP officer claimed. I told the judge that I was there to defend against passing after a regulatory sign.
The judge took the case "under advisement" and I received my bail with a dismissal in the mail a few weeks later. I guess the judge did not want to dismiss the case in front of the peanut gallery... Ventura County...

Spotondl
07-21-2004, 10:33 AM
Just to clarify, I have received about 7 or 8 tickets in the past 24 years. I am not a ticket magnet, knock on wood.

Rubths
07-21-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Last time I got a ticket the officer offered for me to come to the car and see for myself... sounds a little fishy...:confused:
Maybe he though you had a purdy mouth

MudPumper
07-21-2004, 12:34 PM
Fight the ticket, you have nothing to lose except your virginity.:D

MudPumper
07-21-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Spotondl
I was able to get her to vascilate on the actual offense.
Your case got thrown out because the judge didn't know what the hell vascilate meant.:D

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 03:32 PM
I know what Vasc-ill-ate,
means
He ATE some of his own words and became ILL and had to use a VASE to get ride of his shit.
VASC-ILL-ATE

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Last time I got a ticket the officer offered for me to come to the car and see for myself... sounds a little fishy...:confused:
The officer is not required to show you the radar. Some officers will not lock in the speed (it is not a requirement). When I wrote the cites, if traffic permitted, I would ask the violator if they would like me to explain the lidar to them. I would actually let them shoot a car if we had time. I also explained why I was out there citing (usually several collisions involving speed in that area). Needless to say, I rarely had to go to court. If I did, I was prepared with the documents that have been mentioned in this thread.
Officers usually write very good notes on the stop on the back of their copy of the citation. Does that mean you should not fight a cite - no. If you really feel that you didn't do what was alleged, then fight it. Do some homework and be prepared. That what the justice system is for. I suggest that you don't fight the cite on the street "I didn't do that" "I wasn't going that speed". Be courteous - it goes a long way! :)

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 04:05 PM
So how does lidar work????????
what is the difference between that and radar?????

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
So how does lidar work????????
what is the difference between that and radar?????
Lidar is a laser, radar operates on radio waves. Lidar is extremely accurate, and can even give the distance to the target. After visually estimating your speed, we can verify it by aiming the laser at your car. Radar has to be interpreted a little more, and you have to be sure that the vehicle you estimated is the one you are picking up. That's why a lot of times an officer may not lock in a speed with radar. They watch as you drive out of the radar beam area, and the speed drops off.
If anybody ever has questions about this stuff, feel free to PM me. I would love to help. I won't give you a defense though... LOL. :)

FastTimmy
07-21-2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Kokopelli
I also explained why I was out there citing (usually several collisions involving speed in that area). Needless to say, I rarely had to go to court.
If every officer was a clear as there duties as you we would have much safer highways. The purpose of traffic tickets is to keep up awareness and keep things safe. NOT just to make money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About 3 months ago I got my first ticket in my life with 12 years of driving ticket free under my belt. I was in fast lane doing 75-80 in a 70 zone going down to San Diego. I got paced and stopped. I was written for the usual buddy deal of 75 in a 70 zone and given a ticket for mud flaps on my lifted truck. The officer took the time to explain why he stopped me. He went on to explain that they have had a lot of accidents due to speed in the area and they were doing a big crack down. I could see his point; I was doing almost 80 at times. The bummer of it came when I asked him why he singled me out. I was cruising in the # 2 lane at just over 75. I could see him back there in the #3 lane just cruising with me about half a mile back. That is the bonus to lifted trucks, we can see way back behind us. I maintained my speed due to the fact that there were other people in the fast lane going faster than me! In the time the Chipy was cruising back there I was passed by one car and about to be passed by a truck when he rolled up. I thought for sure he was going for the truck. Nope!! He pulled in behind me and hit the lights. After it was all said and done he admitted that he would not have stopped me if it were not for his sergeant riding with him that day that wanted me to have a mud flap ticket.….
So my bitch on tickets is this. Down with the man that would let a higher risk offender (the person passing me) off due to there personal BS with something as petty as mudd flaps.

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 05:49 PM
Ok so how does a laser work
A radar is on radio waves, so what waves is a lidar/laser on....

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Ok so how does a laser work
A radar is on radio waves, so what waves is a lidar/laser on....
:) Sorry. Lidar/laser operates on light waves. RADAR stands for RAdio Detection and Ranging (although police radar does not actually range). LIDAR stands for LIght Detection And Ranging.

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 06:04 PM
So its like a flashlight........:D

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by FastTimmy
If every officer was a clear as there duties as you we would have much safer highways. The purpose of traffic tickets is to keep up awareness and keep things safe. NOT just to make money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You hit it right on the head. I know to some it doesn't feel like it when you receive a ticket, but we are trying to change your behavior. To make you safer, and also to make it safer for the rest of us on the highways. Unfortunately, we have to see the aftermath every day when people drive fast, don't use a seatbelt, drive distracted, etc.

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
So its like a flashlight........:D
Ummmm, yeah. Except when you point your flashlight at a car, it's not going to tell you how fast the car is going. :wink: You just might blind the driver.:cool:

77charger
07-21-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by FastTimmy
If every officer was a clear as there duties as you we would have much safer highways. The purpose of traffic tickets is to keep up awareness and keep things safe. NOT just to make money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can see the part about awareness and safety but why is there a 170 percent penalty assesment on every citation as well a a speeding ticket costing 300 dollars for going 5-10 mph over?I think a point on your record with todays insurance cost can get your attention.For me warinings have been good enough:)

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
I can see the part about awareness and safety but why is there a 170 percent penalty assesment on every citation as well a a speeding ticket costing 300 dollars for going 5-10 mph over?I think a point on your record with todays insurance cost can get your attention.For me warinings have been good enough:)
Thats not true my buddy just got one and it was 138 and he was going 15 mph faster that what the sign said.
Charger that must be your second one, Ive seen you drive that the lake....

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by 77charger
I can see the part about awareness and safety but why is there a 170 percent penalty assesment on every citation as well a a speeding ticket costing 300 dollars for going 5-10 mph over?I think a point on your record with todays insurance cost can get your attention.For me warinings have been good enough:)
The police departments do not set the bail schedule or fees on moving violations. That is done by the courts. So the officer writing tickets does not have any financial interest in issuing citations. It's for the reasons already listed.
Warnings are good, and are used quite a bit. Sometimes, it is zero tolerance. I'm glad warnings have worked for you! :)

77charger
07-21-2004, 06:56 PM
kilr the last speeding ticket i got was in 99 for 65 in 55 the 2 guys after me got 85 in a 65(go figure)I was on my old gsxr 600 on angeles crest hwy.I fought but judge didnt care.I argued the point what the speed limit was if i was written up for 65 in 55 while the next 2 guys got 85 in a 65 zone(same place!!)Officer said he never wrote a guy up for speedin in a 65 zone and all were 55 i got a copy of their tickets to prove him wrong judges reply you were speedin and we already have your bail money. a couple of more got tickets for 56 and 57.
I am aware the officer has no say in the fines and that the courts do they vary from place to place as i use to know.
As for boats i drive slow the small block can only go so fast:D

Kilrtoy
07-21-2004, 07:06 PM
Im just busting your balls.

miller19j
07-21-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Ok so how does a laser work
A radar is on radio waves, so what waves is a lidar/laser on.... LIDAR uses a pulsed laser beam that is sent out and bounces off the target and comes back to a receiver. The speed of light is a known so by measuring how long it takes for the signal to come back you can tell how far away the target is. Then you measure the next pulse return and you know how far the target has traveled in the time between pulses. From that you can compute speed.
Incidentally Radar works on the same principle just in another part of the electro magnetic spectrum. You can get range from radar systems as well(maybe not ones in police cars).
Oh and I believe that the L in LIDAR stands for “Laser”

mike37
07-21-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by miller19j
LIDAR uses a pulsed laser beam that is sent out and bounces off the target and comes back to a receiver. The speed of light is a known so by measuring how long it takes for the signal to come back you can tell how far away the target is. Then you measure the next pulse return and you know how far the target has traveled in the time between pulses. From that you can compute speed.
Incidentally Radar works on the same principle just in another part of the electro magnetic spectrum. You can get range from radar systems as well(maybe not ones in police cars).
Oh and I believe that the L in LIDAR stands for “Laser” Hmm how dose it triangulate if the gun is at say 45deg to your car you would be closing slower than if you were coming strait at the gun at the same speed

Rubths
07-21-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Kokopelli
Lidar is a laser, radar operates on radio waves. Lidar is extremely accurate, and can even give the distance to the target. After visually estimating your speed, we can verify it by aiming the laser at your car. Radar has to be interpreted a little more, and you have to be sure that the vehicle you estimated is the one you are picking up. That's why a lot of times an officer may not lock in a speed with radar. They watch as you drive out of the radar beam area, and the speed drops off.
If anybody ever has questions about this stuff, feel free to PM me. I would love to help. I won't give you a defense though... LOL. :)
In my case I was headed east on hwy 8 and the CHP was headed west, the officer told me he had me on radar at 85 when he passed me. I call bullshit or he must have had a car near me at that speed but I assure you it was not my truck he had at 85!

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by mike37
Hmm how dose it triangulate if the gun is at say 45deg to your car you would be closing slower than if you were coming strait at the gun at the same speed
Luckily, the angle error would always be in the speeders favor....

mike37
07-21-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Kokopelli
Luckily, the angle error would always be in the speeders favor....
ya thats true but I wonder if they work right at an angle

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by miller19j
Oh and I believe that the L in LIDAR stands for “Laser”
Ummmmm, nope. Hence the "I". But it is a laser.
Very good explanation Miller19j! :)

Kokopelli
07-21-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by mike37
ya thats true but I wonder if they work right at an angle
They work. But as the angle increases, the speed shown would just be lower than the actual speed.

mike37
07-21-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Kokopelli
They work. But as the angle increases, the speed shown would just be lower than the actual speed.
is that just on the lidar or is the radar the same

Wally_Gator
07-21-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Rubths
In my case I was headed east on hwy 8 and the CHP was headed west, the officer told me he had me on radar at 85 when he passed me. I call bullshit or he must have had a car near me at that speed but I assure you it was not my truck he had at 85!
The systems in the CHP cruisers have both forward and rear looking radar that is mounted in the cruisers.
The computer associated with the mounted units figures speed as follows:
Radar sends pulses out calculates distance traveled over time.
In your case it would be closing speed, the combination of his vehicle speed and your speed. The computer then subtracts his speed from the closing and the result is your speed.

Spotondl
07-22-2004, 01:27 AM
Interestingly enough, in LIDAR cases the largest "signature" (reflected surface) is your front license plate.
Shine a laser pointer at a cars license plate at night and you will see the effect, the license plate glows intensly.... another reason for a front license plate cover... which (just to be fair) happens to be illegal and you can get a ticket for just that reason....:mad: :mad: :mad:
Also, LIDAR is a very narrow beam relative to RADAR...
The angle error question brought up earlier is much more predominate with RADAR. Also, with RADAR it is easier to get a false reading from other moving objects around the"targeted" vehicle because the RADAR beam is very wide and there are many reflections. Ex: the much lauded case where a telephone was RADAR'd moving at 70+MPH while sitting on a table... Obvious equipment failure in that case.
A LIDAR beam is much narrower. Think of your typical laser pointer and how tight that light beam is even from a very far distance.... There is a calculation (I will try to find and post this for reference) for the beam width over distance. I know that the beam width is something like 3 feet at 1000 yards, approximately. The narrow beam makes LIDAR much more accurate in determining the exact vehicle that is doing the speeding.... In fact, when you get a LIDAR ticket, both the recorded speed AND the distance (range) must be recorded on your citation, ex: 78 mph @ 650 yards. This means that you were recorded at 78 mph at a distance of 650 yards....
A VERY good defense in LIDAR cases is to request the ballistic training records of the ticketing officer....
Seems that it takes quite a marksman to hit a 5 foot (width of the front of a typical car) moving target even at 100 yards... It would take an absolute expert to hit a 5 foot moving target at 600+ yards....
If officer Bob's ballistic training records show that he is only a competent marksman then there is grounds to question his ability to target said moving target at extreme range....
What say you Kokopelli?
I have personally used this defence twice and won both times....
Just being a royal pain in the govt's a$$ I hope.....

Kokopelli
07-22-2004, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Spotondl
Interestingly enough, in LIDAR cases the largest "signature" (reflected surface) is your front license plate.
Shine a laser pointer at a cars license plate at night and you will see the effect, the license plate glows intensly.... another reason for a front license plate cover... which (just to be fair) happens to be illegal and you can get a ticket for just that reason....:mad: :mad: :mad:
Also, LIDAR is a very narrow beam relative to RADAR...
The angle error question brought up earlier is much more predominate with RADAR. Also, with RADAR it is easier to get a false reading from other moving objects around the"targeted" vehicle because the RADAR beam is very wide and there are many reflections. Ex: the much lauded case where a telephone was RADAR'd moving at 70+MPH while sitting on a table... Obvious equipment failure in that case.
A LIDAR beam is much narrower. Think of your typical laser pointer and how tight that light beam is even from a very far distance.... There is a calculation (I will try to find and post this for reference) for the beam width over distance. I know that the beam width is something like 3 feet at 1000 yards, approximately. The narrow beam makes LIDAR much more accurate in determining the exact vehicle that is doing the speeding.... In fact, when you get a LIDAR ticket, both the recorded speed AND the distance (range) must be recorded on your citation, ex: 78 mph @ 650 yards. This means that you were recorded at 78 mph at a distance of 650 yards....
A VERY good defense in LIDAR cases is to request the ballistic training records of the ticketing officer....
Seems that it takes quite a marksman to hit a 5 foot (width of the front of a typical car) moving target even at 100 yards... It would take an absolute expert to hit a 5 foot moving target at 600+ yards....
If officer Bob's ballistic training records show that he is only a competent marksman then there is grounds to question his ability to target said moving target at extreme range....
What say you Kokopelli?
I have personally used this defence twice and won both times....
Just being a royal pain in the govt's a$$ I hope.....
I can never say what a judge is going to allow for a defense. And, your wins may not have been due to the ballistic training record stuff. Our judges know how the lidar works, because we took them out and showed them. By the time we use the lidar, we have already estimated your speed, and we are just verifying it with the lidar. There is an aiming reticle that makes aiming the lidar very easy. Plus, I have never had to qualify with my handgun at 300-1800 feet (using your example). I think I could have a very successful argument that a bullet does not travel like a light beam!
I really don't think that it is a "VERY good" defense, but I have heard stranger things in court. Sometimes it is very entertaining.