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View Full Version : More HUGE Profits Coming to the Oil Companies



Essex502
07-23-2004, 11:21 AM
Record quarters seen from Big Oil
By Lisa Sanders, CBS.MarketWatch.com
DALLAS (CBS.MW) -- The major integrated oil companies reporting quarterly results in force next week are expected to post record profits driven by high commodity prices and refining margins, according to industry watchers.
"If they don't, shame on them," said Oppenheimer & Co. analyst Fadel Gheit. "Oil is at record levels, natural gas prices are at historical highs and refining margins are very close to record levels. And the chemicals business is improving because of global economic improvements. So they're firing on all cylinders."
ExxonMobil (XOM: news, chart, profile), the world's largest oil and gas company, reports its second quarter results July 29.
"Exxon had record earnings last quarter, and they will beat that," Gheit added. "My bet is that the majority [of the companies] will."
Analysts polled by Thomson First Call expect Exxon, which has about $16 billion in cash, to earn 87 cents a share, on average. A year ago, the company earned 62 cents.
"Although they are still buying back stock, the money is coming in a lot faster than they are able to spend it," Gheit noted. "I still believe [Exxon is] eyeing investments in Russia. With more uncertainty surrounding Iraq, Russia becomes the only game in town."
The analyst said he's interested to see the company's results from its chemicals segment. As one of the largest petrochemical companies in the world, Exxon stands to benefit nicely from a turnaround in the industry.
On July 30, analysts expect ChevronTexaco (CVX: news, chart, profile) to report earnings of $2.70 per share, a sharp increase from the $1.61 a share earned in the second quarter of 2003.
"Chevron is printing money," Gheit said. "They're having Christmas in April, May and June. Gasoline prices are at record levels and they're making obscene profits."
==============================================
Think their profits are out of our pockets?

boatnam2
07-23-2004, 11:25 AM
i hate that but it sure makes for a nice bonus:D

BUSTI
07-23-2004, 11:46 AM
Fantastic!!!!!
I own several big oil company stocks. And no, their profits come out of their pockets. Why does this piss you off? What and where did you go to business college that teaches that no profits in the oil business is good for America?
Hell I am happy as hell to see American business (any business) do well!:D

Essex502
07-23-2004, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by BUSTI
Fantastic!!!!!
I own several big oil company stocks. And no, their profits come out of their pockets. Why does this piss you off? What and where did you go to business college that teaches that no profits in the oil business is good for America?
Hell I am happy as hell to see American business (any business) do well!:D
You missed the point BUSTI...the profits are coming from the HIGH PRICES we are all paying...the refinery margins are at record amounts. That is where real profit is being made. $0.66 of every gallon of refined gasoline is refinery margin in CA where the gulf coast is only $0.22 per gallon. Think the public is getting reamed in CA? Sure is.
And no, their profits come out of their pockets.
Right ..they sell gasoline to themselves. Hahahaha...good one.

1978 Rogers
07-23-2004, 01:44 PM
I work in the offcie for a landscape/irrigation company in Western Washington. We buy gas wholesale from a Chevron distributor. They come three times a week to fill our tank. We go through an easy 1500 gallons per week for all our work trucks. Our wholesale price per gallon two weeks ago was $.40 less than at the pumps. Our gas is on the way back up, because our wholesale price today is back up to $1.95. We get quotes faxed to us Mon, Wed & Friday to let us know what our fuel prices are. On a weekly basis we have to tell our crews to fillup here or at a gas station depending on what is cheaper. Today I paid $1.87 at a station for reg unleaded for my car. In a couple of weeks it will be back up in the $2.00 per gallon easy.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 02:38 PM
LOL! How do their profits come from their own pockets? All i know is record high prices and record high profits.....Coincidence?...i think not

boatnam2
07-23-2004, 03:02 PM
i work for bp and supply and demand the west coat pad is down about 5 million barrels of gas. so that is a shortage which drives prices up no matter how much profit there making.

Jrocket
07-23-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by boatnam2
i work for bp and supply and demand the west coat pad is down about 5 million barrels of gas. so that is a shortage which drives prices up no matter how much profit there making.
I can think of another reason why the prices are up,might have to do with a 8 million dollar invoice they had to pay!!!:D

NastyOne
07-23-2004, 03:16 PM
f u c k the gas companies! im getting a scooter. and an ELECTRIC one at that!

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by boatnam2
i work for bp and supply and demand the west coat pad is down about 5 million barrels of gas. so that is a shortage which drives prices up no matter how much profit there making.
So they produce less..and get paid more...where do i sign up?

Essex502
07-23-2004, 03:57 PM
No question that gasoline supply is tight but why is that? Oil company mergers and the closure of over 150 refineries in the U.S. over the last decade or so. Where have all the refineries gone?

cdog
07-23-2004, 04:23 PM
It's our own fault. We should all be running diesel engines in our trucks and be running bio fuel. Hell you can make it yourself for around a buck a gallon. Things wont change untill we put pressure on the goverment to do something about this.

robert_pv
07-23-2004, 04:24 PM
Here are todays prices as reported from Oil Price info service (opis) for the phx rack 07/23/04
PHOENIX, AZ 2004-07-23 09:27:48 EDT
**OPIS CLEAR GROSS GASOLINE PRICES** 9.0 RVP
Terms Unl Move Mid Move Pre Unl Move Date
COP 1-10 141.15b - 2.00 146.15 - 2.00 154.15 - 2.00 07/22
COP N-10 130.00u - 3.00 134.00 - 3.00 139.00 - 3.00 07/23
Chevron N-10 138.10b - 2.00 143.10 - 2.00 151.10 - 2.00 07/23
DiamondSh 1-10 139.10b - 1.50 144.10 - 1.50 149.10 - 1.50 07/22
Navajo N-10 138.00u - 2.00 142.00 - 2.00 148.00 - 2.00 07/23
Shell N-10 140.07b - 2.00 146.07 - 2.00 155.57 - 2.00 07/22
Texaco N-10 140.07b - 2.00 146.07 - 2.00 155.57 - 2.00 07/22
Valero N-10 130.50u - 2.50 135.00 - 2.50 139.50 - 2.50 07/23
WestrnRef N-7 140.00u - 1.50 145.00 - 1.50 151.00 - 1.50 07/22
XOM 1-10 141.50b - 2.00 146.55 - 1.95 155.65 - .85 07/22
LOW RACK 130.00 134.00 139.00
HIGH RACK 141.50 146.55 155.65
RACK AVERAGE 137.85 142.80 149.86
BRND RACK AVG 140.00 145.34 153.52
UNBRND RACK AVG 134.63 139.00 144.38
CONT AV 07/22 138.80 143.75 150.81
CONT LOW 07/22 133.00 137.00 142.00
CONT HIGH 07/22 141.50 146.55 155.65
*RFG meets AZCBG reqrmts.
PHOENIX-MESA, AZ
LOW RETAIL 183.23
AVG RETAIL 189.80
LOW RETAIL EX-TAX 145.83
AVG RETAIL EX-TAX 152.40
RACK/RETAIL P+/L- +14.55
PHOENIX, AZ 2004-07-23 09:27:48 EDT
**OPIS RFG MTBE GROSS PRICES**
Terms Unl Move Mid Move Pre Unl Move Date
COP 1-10 148.95b - 1.50 153.95 - 1.50 161.95 - 1.50 07/22
COP N-10 143.25u - 1.50 148.25 - 1.50 153.25 - 1.50 07/22
Chevron N-10 146.00b - 2.00 151.00 - 2.00 159.00 - 2.00 07/23
DiamondSh 1-10 151.75b 3.40 156.75 3.40 161.75 3.40 07/22
Navajo N-10 141.00u - 1.00 145.00 - 1.00 151.00 - 1.00 07/23
Shell N-10 144.77b - 2.00 150.77 - 2.00 160.27 - 2.00 07/22
Texaco N-10 144.77b - 2.00 150.77 - 2.00 160.27 - 2.00 07/22
Valero N-10 142.00u - 2.00 146.50 - 2.00 151.00 - 2.00 07/23
WestrnRef N-7 144.50u - 1.50 149.50 - 1.50 154.50 - 1.50 07/23
XOM 1-10 149.50b - 2.00 154.55 - 1.95 163.65 - .85 07/22
LOW RACK 141.00 145.00 151.00
HIGH RACK 151.75 156.75 163.65
RACK AVERAGE 145.65 150.70 157.66
BRND RACK AVG 147.62 152.97 161.15
UNBRND RACK AVG 142.69 147.31 152.44
CONT AV 07/22 146.30 151.35 158.31
CONT LOW 07/22 142.00 146.00 152.00
CONT HIGH 07/22 151.75 156.75 163.65
*RFG meets AZCBG reqrmts.
PHOENIX-MESA, AZ
LOW RETAIL 186.50
AVG RETAIL 193.76
LOW RETAIL EX-TAX 149.10
AVG RETAIL EX-TAX 156.36
RACK/RETAIL P+/L- +10.71
PHOENIX, AZ 2004-07-23
09:27:49 EDT
**OPIS GROSS NO.2 DISTILLATE PRICES**
No.2 Latest No.2 Latest No.2 Latest Date
of
Terms LS Move HS Move ULS Move Move
COP 1-10 129.50b 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/22
Chevron N-10 129.50b 2.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
WestrnRef N-7 129.50u 1.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Valero N-10 130.00u 4.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
DiamondSh 1-10 131.65b 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Tesoro N-10 131.75u 4.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
BP Net 132.00u 2.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Texaco N-15 132.43b 2.09 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/22
COP N-10 132.50u 2.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Navajo N-10 132.50u 1.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
XOM 1-10 133.15b 4.30 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Shell N-15 133.34u 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Texaco N-15 133.34u 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
LOW RACK 129.50 -- -- -- --
HIGH RACK 133.34 -- -- -- --
RACK AVG 131.63 -- -- -- --
BRND RACK AVG 131.25 -- -- -- --
UNBRND RACK AVG 131.87 -- -- -- --
CONT AV 07/22 129.10 -- -- -- --
CONT LOW 07/22 126.00 -- -- -- --
CONT HIGH 07/22 131.00 -- -- -- --
PHOENIX, AZ 2004-07-23
09:27:49 EDT
**OPIS GROSS NO.2 RED DYED DISTILLATE PRICES**
No.2 Latest No.2 Latest No.2 Latest Date
of
Terms LS RD Move Pre LSRD Move ULS RD Move Move
COP 1-10 130.00b 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/22
WestrnRef N-7 130.00u 1.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Chevron N-10 130.50b 2.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Valero N-10 130.50u 4.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Tesoro N-10 132.25u 4.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
COP N-10 133.00u 2.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Navajo N-10 133.00u 1.50 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Shell N-15 133.84u 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
Texaco N-15 133.84u 3.00 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
07/23
LOW RACK 130.00 -- -- -- --
HIGH RACK 133.84 -- -- -- --
RACK AVG 131.88 -- -- -- --
BRND RACK AVG 130.25 -- -- -- --
UNBRND RACK AVG 132.35 -- -- -- --
CONT AV 07/22 129.49 -- -- -- --
CONT LOW 07/22 126.50 -- -- -- --
CONT HIGH 07/22 131.50 -- -- -- --
--------------------
excluding taxes and freight.

mickeyfinn
07-23-2004, 04:37 PM
If you owned an oil company wouldn't you be charging as much as the market will bear? How many of us have seriously changed our driving habits due to the price of gas? If you really want to solve the issue with fuel prices then the government should give back to the people every dollar it has taxed us in order to subsidize the fossil fuels. Then we will really understand what the real cost of gas is. As it is today the federal government subsidizes the fossil fuel industry and this is why we see such low prices at the pump as compared to other countries. I guarantee you that if the oil industry and the alternative fuel programs out there were ever forced to play on an even playing field you would see the alternative fuels very rapidly becoming the fuel of choice for a large number of people. You may be paying 2.00 at the pump, but after subsidies and other more direct taxes you are actually paying close to double that amount.

gramps
07-23-2004, 04:54 PM
I just love capitalism!!!!!! This is what this country is all about. Why doesn't anyone complain about the the rise in the price of other commidities compared to gasoline for the last 30 - 40 years. After adjusting for inflation you would find that gasoline is cheap compared to other "every day use items". How about milk? In some places it's hitting $4.00 a gallon. What do you think it cost 30 - 40 years ago for a gallon of milk? A new house in Chino Hills bought in 1974 for $35,000 is worth over $300,000 now.............anyone complaining about that??????? Plus for me the biggie is the stronger the oil companies are the stronger my retirement plan is.......I worked in the oil business for 29 years!!!!
One other thought, maybe if the wacko enviro groups would allow some refineries to be built in the U.S. prices might not be as high. When was the last major refinery built in our country? Shell oil quite refining on the west coast and built a refinery in Thailand. How many jobs did that cost us?
UNOCAL (Union 76) completely got out of the gasoline and refining business years ago; they saw the writing on the wall and went with exploration and production.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 04:55 PM
I know ive deffinately changed my driving habits here and at the river...also alot more people at my work are now riding their motorcycles and dirtbikes "if theyre close" to work.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by gramps
I just love capitalism!!!!!! This is what this country is all about. Why doesn't anyone complain about the the rise in the price of other commidities compared to gasoline for the last 30 - 40 years. After adjusting for inflation you would find that gasoline is cheap compared to other "every day use items". How about milk? In some places it's hitting $4.00 a gallon. What do you think it cost 30 - 40 years ago for a gallon of milk? A new house in Chino Hills bought in 1974 for $35,000 is worth over $300,000 now.............anyone complaining about that??????? Plus for me the biggie is the stronger the oil companies are the stronger my retirement plan is.......I worked in the oil business for 29 years!!!!
One other thought, maybe if the wacko enviro groups would allow some refineries to be built in the U.S. prices might not be as high. When was the last major refinery built in our country? Shell oil quite refining on the west coast and built a refinery in Thailand. How many jobs did that cost us?
UNOCAL (Union 76) completely got out of the gasoline and refining business years ago; they saw the writing on the wall and went with exploration and production.
Capitalism...? wow thats funny because i thought capitalism encouraged competition. All i see in the Oil business is a big monopoly

gramps
07-23-2004, 05:10 PM
"All i see in the Oil business is a big monopoly"
time for a trip to the optomotrist

mary
07-23-2004, 05:10 PM
The same person that complains about pennies on the gallon for gasoline. Says nothing about dollars on a pack of smokes

Havasu Hangin'
07-23-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by gramps
time for a trip to the optomotrist
Time for some reading on the purpose of the FTC.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by gramps
time for a trip to the optomotrist
Seeing how you worked for the oil company..and are making money off of me, ur opinion on this issue is going to be slanted to me.
So tell me about all of the competition in the oil industry.

gramps
07-23-2004, 05:28 PM
So tell me about all of the competition in the oil industry
here is a short list off that comes to mind:
Amoco
BP
Citgo
Conoco
Exxon/Mobil
Phillips 66
Shell
Sinclair
Sunoco
Texaco
Tessoro
Unocal/Tasco
Those cover I-15 from Utah to Southern Calif............if you look there are probally more.
Now if the envirowoackos would allow some exploration, production & refineries to be built in the U.S. the list might be a bit larger.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 06:01 PM
TEXACO is partners with CHEVRON and CALTEX
Texaco STAR is owned in part by the government of Saudi Arabia
SHELL partners with SAUDI ARAMCO and owns EQUILON "now shell products US"
In California Shell probuces no oil but owns part of AERA "whose only job is to produce oil" AERA is also owned in part by EXON/MOBILE
AERA bought all the California oil properties of ARCO
ARCO is owned by BP who owns SOMOCO and SOHIO
BP's refineries and stations in europe are owned in part by Exon/Mobile
How much of the market do you think the rest of the companies you listed own? All of the comapnies are probably interlocked one way or another, theres very little competition

gramps
07-23-2004, 06:23 PM
if you want to start into exploration and production the list would be at least twice the size. But you are doing a very good job of proving my other point!!!!!!! There needs to be more companies allowed to explore, produce and refine oil products within the United States.

Havasu Hangin'
07-23-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by XtrmWakeborder
How much of the market do you think the rest of the companies you listed own? All of the comapnies are probably interlocked one way or another, theres very little competition
I'll also add the fact that the franchise retailers have been driven out of business over the past 10 years (or so), as the oil companies quickly figured out that they can manipulate retail pricing much easier if they owned and operated the outlets.

gramps
07-23-2004, 06:30 PM
I wish the oil companies did own the stations (at least where I live). We have the "good ol' boy network..............they get together every week and decide what they how much they want to gouge. All the stations in Cedar City, Utah are pretty much controlled by one person and he is a jobber not an Oil Company. In St. Gouge (george) there are about 3 people (not oil companies) that controll the whole mess. Years ago many stations were owned and run by the oil companies but I think those days were gone a very long time ago.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by gramps
if you want to start into exploration and production the list would be at least twice the size. But you are doing a very good job of proving my other point!!!!!!! There needs to be more companies allowed to explore, produce and refine oil products within the United States.
So it's the "enviro wakos" fault that there is hardly any competition and the prices are so high? I thought is was all the merging and buying out of the small companies by the big companies. The small companies simply can't compete with all the large ones, which is why the large ones should be split up to MAKE competition. By the way im not defending the enviro wakos at all they do cause some problems, but i dont think they have to do with record profits for the oil companies

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by gramps
I wish the oil companies did own the stations (at least where I live). We have the "good ol' boy network..............they get together every week and decide what they how much they want to gouge. All the stations in Cedar City, Utah are pretty much controlled by one person and he is a jobber not an Oil Company. In St. Gouge (george) there are about 3 people (not oil companies) that controll the whole mess. Years ago many stations were owned and run by the oil companies but I think those days were gone a very long time ago.
I saw on the news down here that the people who own the station only make like 1 to 2 cents per gallon...maybe its diff up there...how much are you paying for gas?

gramps
07-23-2004, 06:47 PM
Last time I bought diesel it was $1.79..........my wife pays about $1.90 for gas, we also get an additional 5 cents to 15 cents off per gallon using a cupon we get from the grocery store. With a little luck and the cupon I'll fill up my Duramax on monday for about $1.64 a gallon. That is with diesel that is shipped from Cally to Utah. Too bad the laws in Calif. don't allow the same fuel to be sold there that we get here................it could save you guys a bit of brewski $$$$$.

beer hunter
07-23-2004, 06:56 PM
The number of refineries in the U.S. peaked in 1981, when there were 315 operating refineries in the U.S. Many of these closed in the 1980’s because they were small and inefficient; owing their existence largely to government subsidies to small refiners that ended in 1981. However, even in the 1990’s, as the industry faced increasing requirements for cleaner fuels and improved environmental performance, the number of refineries continued to shrink—from 194 in 1990 to 155 at the end of the decade.
With essentially no new refinery construction (the last major refinery built in the U.S. was completed in 1976), growth in capacity at existing refineries has offset the effect of refinery closures—particularly in the later part of the last decade, with the result that total refinery capacity grew from 15.5 to 16.5 million barrels per day in the 1990s. But this increase has not been adequate to keep up with the growth in petroleum product demand. As a result, refinery excess capacity has fallen dramatically. Refinery capacity utilization, which had averaged in the high 80’s prior to the last decade, reached almost 93 percent in the year 2000 and at peak levels of seasonal demand, utilization was over 95 percent. This compares to an average utilization rate in other industries of 82 percent.
The very high capacity utilization rate of U.S. refineries has already reached the point where it poses the potential for supply interruptions and consumer hardship, since, with no excess capacity, a relatively minor incident may quickly cause a supply disruption and potential price impacts. Last summer’s sharp gasoline price hikes in the Midwest are a case in point when refinery operating difficulties combined with pipeline and other problems to cause temporary shortages.
Read the whole story here. (http://api-ep.api.org/industry/index.cfm?objectid=5C1AE70F-0129-449F-A6CEF327E2A0000F&method=display_body&er=1&bitmask=002007004000000000)

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by gramps
Last time I bought diesel it was $1.79..........my wife pays about $1.90 for gas, we also get an additional 5 cents to 15 cents off per gallon using a cupon we get from the grocery store. With a little luck and the cupon I'll fill up my Duramax on monday for about $1.64 a gallon. That is with diesel that is shipped from Cally to Utah. Too bad the laws in Calif. don't allow the same fuel to be sold there that we get here................it could save you guys a bit of brewski $$$$$.
Hell yah! over here im payin 2.17 for regular...i need to find a grocery store that has those cupons lol

gramps
07-23-2004, 07:02 PM
Smiths is the grocery store..............
buy $30.00 and get 5 cents off
$50.00 and get 10 cents off
$90.00 (I think) and get 15 cents off.....they just upped the ante a couple of weeks ago used to be $25, $50 & $75...........I wonder if Smiths grocery store is really owned by the oil companies and not Krugers!!!!!!!!
Back way back when, there was a Smiths in the 909!!!!!!! Euclid and 24th in Upland.

Havasu Hangin'
07-23-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by gramps
Years ago many stations were owned and run by the oil companies but I think those days were gone a very long time ago.
Franchisees are now the execption rather than the norm in many markets. Lawmakers in Oregon were the first to understand that with only a handful of suppliers left, the market can be contolled.
For many years (in this market), the franchisee only had to compete with other franchisees (who all had leases from the corporation). The oil companies didn't really want to be in the retail business (frankly, they weren't very good at it).
However, about 10 years ago, the corporate stores began grabbing more locations (and marketshare). For example, a corporate store would open across the street from a franchisee (with a lease), and sell gas for cheaper than the acqusition cost to the franchisee- same trucks. If the franchisee sourced from another company, he voided his lease.
This market used to be about 80% independantly operated, but now it's probably down to 30% or so (it's easy to spot the corporate stores if you know what to look for).
If you control the retail pricing (through wholesale or retail), then that just leaves a handful of competitors (we only have a few retail gasoline brands in this HUGE market) to "sit around and pricefix with"...
This is old news...the FTC has been asleep at the switch (or paid off).

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 07:21 PM
So the shutting down of refineries will help the shortage problem? ..i think they want to lower ovehead cost. Why do they keep shutting them down instead of building more....or opening up existing ones that have been shut down to compensate for the increased demand? I think the key words here are RECORD PROFITS and RECORD PRICES. Its ok if they make money, but having the consumer by the balls and being able to charge pretty much whatever they want, thats not good.
Maybe the whole thing with oil companies is they know they're not going to be the only game in town in the near future and want to get all the money they can right now while they are. But who knows, i'm only a 20 year old kid, and most of this is theory with some facts :D

gramps
07-23-2004, 07:40 PM
Any company with half ass management is going to try to lower the "overhead". That's part of the big reason Royal Dutch Shell sold their Carson Refinery and built (at that time) the world’s largest refinery in Taiwan (can you spell CHEAP LABOR AND NO SIERRA CLUB)??????
As far as building new refineries...............ask your senators Boxer and Feinstein, you can find them at the local Sierra Club meeting.
One thing that really does impress me is the fact that a 20 year old is taking so much interest in a subject like this.

XtrmWakeborder
07-23-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by gramps
Any company with half ass management is going to try to lower the "overhead". That's part of the big reason Royal Dutch Shell sold their Carson Refinery and built (at that time) the world’s largest refinery in Taiwan (can you spell CHEAP LABOR AND NO SIERRA CLUB)??????
As far as building new refineries...............ask your senators Boxer and Feinstein, you can find them at the local Sierra Club meeting.
One thing that really does impress me is the fact that a 20 year old is taking so much interest in a subject like this.
Damn tree huggers lol! Well i guess it's because instead of whining about gas prices and leaving it at that, i do some research and talk to people like urself and try to figure out the causes of the high prices in hope of changes being implemented if they can be. It was nice chattin to you guys about this, hopefully we can meet sometime on the river or the lake and leave the politics at home.."where they belong"

gramps
07-23-2004, 08:08 PM
:cool: :D :cool: :D

Essex502
07-26-2004, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by gramps
here is a short list off that comes to mind:
Amoco
BP
Citgo
Conoco
Exxon/Mobil
Phillips 66
Shell
Sinclair
Sunoco
Texaco
Tessoro
Unocal/Tasco
Those cover I-15 from Utah to Southern Calif............if you look there are probally more.
Now if the envirowoackos would allow some exploration, production & refineries to be built in the U.S. the list might be a bit larger.
thou knowest not the $hit you speak:
BP/Amoco - same company
Conoco/Phillips - same company
Shell purchased the refining and marketing interests of Texaco so in fact they're the same company at the station level.
Tessoro, Sunoco, Tasco are not present in the SoCal market.

Essex502
07-26-2004, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by gramps
Last time I bought diesel it was $1.79..........my wife pays about $1.90 for gas, we also get an additional 5 cents to 15 cents off per gallon using a cupon we get from the grocery store. With a little luck and the cupon I'll fill up my Duramax on monday for about $1.64 a gallon. That is with diesel that is shipped from Cally to Utah. Too bad the laws in Calif. don't allow the same fuel to be sold there that we get here................it could save you guys a bit of brewski $$$$$.
If Shell is successful in closing the Bakersfield refinery, the 6% of the diesel that is refined in CA will be lost and your costs for it - if it is shipped to Utah - will also rise.

OGShocker
07-26-2004, 06:14 AM
Damn those big oil companies! Trying to make a profit! Where do they think they are, The United States of America or something?
Are you coming after me because I build something for a dollar and charge my customers $50.00.:rolleyes:

Essex502
07-26-2004, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by beer hunter
The number of refineries in the U.S. peaked in 1981, when there were 315 operating refineries in the U.S. Many of these closed in the 1980?s because they were small and inefficient; owing their existence largely to government subsidies to small refiners that ended in 1981. However, even in the 1990?s, as the industry faced increasing requirements for cleaner fuels and improved environmental performance, the number of refineries continued to shrink?from 194 in 1990 to 155 at the end of the decade.
With essentially no new refinery construction (the last major refinery built in the U.S. was completed in 1976), growth in capacity at existing refineries has offset the effect of refinery closures?particularly in the later part of the last decade, with the result that total refinery capacity grew from 15.5 to 16.5 million barrels per day in the 1990s. But this increase has not been adequate to keep up with the growth in petroleum product demand. As a result, refinery excess capacity has fallen dramatically. Refinery capacity utilization, which had averaged in the high 80?s prior to the last decade, reached almost 93 percent in the year 2000 and at peak levels of seasonal demand, utilization was over 95 percent. This compares to an average utilization rate in other industries of 82 percent.
The very high capacity utilization rate of U.S. refineries has already reached the point where it poses the potential for supply interruptions and consumer hardship, since, with no excess capacity, a relatively minor incident may quickly cause a supply disruption and potential price impacts. Last summer?s sharp gasoline price hikes in the Midwest are a case in point when refinery operating difficulties combined with pipeline and other problems to cause temporary shortages.
Read the whole story here. (http://api-ep.api.org/industry/index.cfm?objectid=5C1AE70F-0129-449F-A6CEF327E2A0000F&method=display_body&er=1&bitmask=002007004000000000)
Doesn't explain why Shell is closing the Bakersfield refinery when it's the most profitable of all of their US refineries and by all experts opinions (at least those outside of Shell) it is viable for at least the next 10 years.