Is Kerry [Archive] - RiverRacer.Net

Froggystyle

08-03-2004, 01:41 PM

Usually the deciding factor is your respect for committment. I find myself usually at odds on the issues, as I don't fancy myself a conservative or a liberal, but certainly on the Republican side of most issues.
In any case, it has been said that the leader of the country can only screw things up so far. There is a huge beaurocratic government that will keep screwing all sorts of stuff up regardless who is in office, and taxes will overall end up going up (increased fees, local taxes etc...) and the country will always be in some ethical turmoil.
I back Bush because he believes in something and has the sack to do what HE thinks is right. Character plays into my decision 100%, and while I don't think he is the greatest president we have ever had, I think we could be a hell of a lot worse off right now if someone with a history of mediocrity was in office.
In the teams we had a saying. "A terrible decision executed well is infinitely better than a great idea executed poorly or not at all". It is a leadership thing. You aren't going to be popular with everyone, but you do what your moral compass tells you to, and let the chips fall where they may.
I hate wishy washy.

summerlove

08-03-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by carbonmarine
HELL YES IS IS THAT BAD.
stated from a true expert! Facts, man, facts...:)

Havasu_Dreamin

08-03-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by mirvin
Just figure out what matters to you and then decide who best represents you and try to make the best descision you can. It takes awhile to figure it all out.
This by far the best piece of advice anyone can give you on this subject. Each party, hence candidate, stands for different things. You need to decide which one you stand for and agree with. Truthfully, it may do some good that you ahve not voted before and don't know a lot about what is going on in the political arena. You could be old and jaded like me! The key is educate yourself about the issues.
Just remember you can never go wrong when you're right! That was for you SL. LMAO j/k :p

Dave C

08-03-2004, 01:44 PM

its the other way around.
If your a rich (lawyer) vote for Kerry.
If your a small business person or entrepeneur, vote for Bush.
Originally posted by Bre
So if your poor vote for Kerry and if your rich vote for Bush???:confused: What is the deciding factor?

mirvin

08-03-2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Bre
Where do I go to find out everything about each of them? Andy always votes.. I never have. Figured I gotta start sometime.
Focus on National issues: Do you agree with what Bush has done since 9/11? Etc.
That's a good starting point. Try to stick to your conviction while at the same time weighing what may or may not be necessary.
I'm not a huge fan of BUsh, but I am with him on the fact that he has taken action to safeguard our way of life. I try not to get caught up in the "he said she said" bs that people use to muddy the water.
mirvin

Bre

08-03-2004, 01:49 PM

Is there a site or something for each of them that states what they believe in and what they want to do for our country???

mirvin

08-03-2004, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Bre
Is there a site or something for each of them that states what they believe in and what they want to do for our country???
Unfortunately it's not that simple.... plus we're bombarded daily with useless information designed to trick us into coming to a conclusion while the real issues seldomly get brought to light because then the politicians would have to take a stand.....which they never do.
They say things like "war is bad" or "drugs are bad"... well yeah, but, what about in "this situation"........
I think for you, instead of focusing on the people or the partys you should focus on the issues and learn what they are and what they involve and then you'll figure out who want's what.
The problem is that this is politics, the art of deception:D
mirvin

Bre

08-03-2004, 01:58 PM

Guess I need to start watching their speeches.

spectratoad

08-03-2004, 01:58 PM

Democrat/Kerry (http://www.democrats.org/)
Republicans/Bush (http://www.rnc.org/)
REad the Bush one first. It has more insight and truthfullness. :D :D
I said that for you Summerlove. lol:D

Froggystyle

08-03-2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Bre
Is there a site or something for each of them that states what they believe in and what they want to do for our country???
The problem is, there is no BS filter on any site I have found. Mostly what you read is rhetoric from one party or another.
What I do for actual less biased information is subscribe to "The Economist". This is a British magazine regarding the world and British economical situation, and gives wonderful insight from a slightly removed perspective on the whole situation. The coverage is good, but not too leaned towards one or the other. In addition, they don't seem to be on any media based witchhunt against Bush.
All in all, it seems more moderate than a lot of stuff I read. If you read Republican rhetoric it talks about how bad Kerry is, and vice versa. I think the Republicans for the most part have a lot higher quality of stuff to bitch about personally, but the Dems have some issues that are important to them that Bush has fallen short on for sure. All of which, I am glad he did BTW...
Even among moderates, you will still get a skewed opinion. Try to find an unbiased, international source.

spectratoad

08-03-2004, 02:00 PM

Bre, Both sides will give you their story. The only thing you can do is look at results, both the past and now and go with your instinct. The finger pointing game doesn't work for me and they will all promise you the moon but you have to look at what has been delivered.
Did you get an extra tax check back, do you feel safer etc...
I for one don't necessarily feel safer but I feel more aware which in turn puts terrorists on guard and they can't run around so freely which yes in turn makes us safer.

Her454

08-03-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Froggystyle
I back Bush because he believes in something and has the sack to do what HE thinks is right. Character plays into my decision 100%, and while I don't think he is the greatest president we have ever had, I think we could be a hell of a lot worse off right now if someone with a history of mediocrity was in office.
In the teams we had a saying. "A terrible decision executed well is infinitely better than a great idea executed poorly or not at all". It is a leadership thing. You aren't going to be popular with everyone, but you do what your moral compass tells you to, and let the chips fall where they may.
I hate wishy washy.
AS USUAL, Froggy tells it like it is. :D :D :D

Froggystyle

08-03-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Her454
AS USUAL, Froggy tells it like it is. :D :D :D
In my best Popeye voice... "I yam what I yam!"
I only tell my version though ;)

Dave C

08-03-2004, 02:07 PM

make sure you read both sides.... the truth is somewhere in the middle.

mirvin

08-03-2004, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Froggystyle
In my best Popeye voice... "I yam what I yam!"
I only tell my version though ;)
O my garsh !!! Swea Pea!!!!:D
Hey Bre, I'm sorta going through this with my wife right now. SHe's interested because she sees me yelling at the tv or talking with freinds but whenever I try to (unbiasedly of course) get into a certian issue or even a general issue I lose her real quick;)
mirvin

FREIND OF AA AND TA

08-03-2004, 02:12 PM

Bre, you dont have time for all of those bush/kerry things! You are to busy on line. Just trust me on this!
BUSH!!!!!!!!!!:sqsmile:
You are now self employed!

summerlove

08-03-2004, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by mirvin
Focus on National issues: Do you agree with what Bush has done since 9/11? Etc.
That's a good starting point.
mirvin
you can't just stick to the "national" issues because his policies on foreign affiars is what this administration is all about....:confused:

Her454

08-03-2004, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Froggystyle
In my best Popeye voice... "I yam what I yam!"
I only tell my version though ;)
LOL, well I like your yams....and I "usually" agree with your opinions.....:D :D

mirvin

08-03-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by summerlove
you can't just stick to the "national" issues because his policies on foreign affiars is what this administration is all about....:confused:
That's what I meant. National / international. What I should have said is to not worry about issues that don't concern the Fed.;) You know, like state or local issues.
mirvin

v-drive

08-03-2004, 02:31 PM

Bottom line is, you have to make up your own mind and it takes awhile. I just wrote you a whole lot of stuff and deleted it. Talk to your parents , Andy and anyone else that you value. actually Froggystyle and spectretoad say it pretty well. Whatever you decide is fine as long as it is your decision. :D v-drive

eliminatedsprinter

08-03-2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by summerlove
No he's not. The righty tighties on this board will flame anyone that dares cross Bush. Do your own homework and make up your own mind. Be sure to look at Bush's record as well.....
Now for my daily a$$ kicking....:wink:
I beg to disagree, I have been a political junkie for a long tiime. I have seen little good in John Kerry since he has been in the Senate. He has pretty much just been a straight party line voter with strong left leanings, that has for the most part been little more than Ted Kennedy's valet. He has drafted no significant bills that have been passed. The one major bill that he did draft and put his name on was one he drafted not long after the first attempt at blowing up the world trade center, that if passed, would have further gutted our international intelligence agencies. It was an irresponsible and loony left idea, that even his senior senator pal Ted Kennedy couldn't bring himself to vote for. He has a long track record in the senate and in that record are come clear trends.
#1. He has voted for tax increases at every chance.
#2. He has voted agianst tax cuts consistantly as well.
#3. He's consistantly opposed military and intelligence spending.
#4. He's been a friend of groups like PETA and Handgun control inc etc...
#5 In the past he has spoke out in favor of increased gas taxes and prices as a way of pricing people off the roads and thus reducing traffic and pollution.
#6 He supported Clinton/Gore's massive downsizing of the VA and the huge reduction in services it resulted in for our nations vets (something the Bush administration has been abe to do little to reverse, by the way).
Well you get my drift. Of course, he now is talking a much different game. To me (knowing his legislative track record) he looks just as ridiculous as George Bush would, if Bush were to come out all of the sudden and say he never supported the war in Iraq and that tax breaks were bankrupting our economy....

spectratoad

08-03-2004, 04:38 PM

Bush - Conviction, moral, ethical, national pride
Kerry - He will be whatever you want him to be as long as he gets what he wants for the moment. FLIP FLOPPER :mad:

Bre

08-03-2004, 04:45 PM

When were we suppose to get an extra tax check back :confused:
Thanks guys... sorry I just got back on..I was busy with the kids.:p

mirvin

08-03-2004, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Bre
When were we suppose to get an extra tax check back :confused:
Thanks guys... sorry I just got back on..I was busy with the kids.:p
You won't get it if you didn't vote for BUSH!!!:D Just kidding. I already got mine, quite awhile ago if I'm not mistaken. I think there was an additional one recently for kids......help.....
mirvin

Bre

08-03-2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by mirvin
You won't get it if you didn't vote for BUSH!!!:D Just kidding. I already got mine, quite awhile ago if I'm not mistaken. I think there was an additional one recently for kids......help.....
mirvin
S h i t I'd love to get some extra money in the mail:D

AZKC

08-03-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Dave C
its the other way around.
If your a rich (lawyer) vote for Kerry.
If your a small business person or entrepeneur, vote for Bush.
WHAT:eek: What do you consider a small business person. :confused:
Time to go:D

Dave C

08-03-2004, 05:23 PM

uhhh... me.... an probably every other guy who has less than 50 employees.
Originally posted by AZKC
WHAT:eek: What do you consider a small business person. :confused:
Time to go:D

summerlove

08-03-2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by mirvin
You won't get it if you didn't vote for BUSH!!!:D Just kidding. I already got mine, quite awhile ago if I'm not mistaken. I think there was an additional one recently for kids......help.....
mirvin
tax break my @$$ - it was an advance against future taxes that you had to claim on your 2003 1040 forms. It counted as income!!!

Dave C

08-03-2004, 05:34 PM

get the facts straight.
advance against a future tax BREAK you had to claim on your 1040.
Davec<------ CPA.....:p
Originally posted by summerlove
tax break my @$$ - it was an advance against future taxes that you had to claim on your 2003 1040 forms. It counted as income!!!
try to keep the tax break rhetoric to a minimum, I'm here to keep you honest.

mike37

08-03-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by summerlove
stated from a true expert! Facts, man, facts...:)
were do you get your Facts

OGShocker

08-03-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Bre
Where do I go to find out everything about each of them? Andy always votes.. I never have. Figured I gotta start sometime.
Read my signature.:D

AZKC

08-03-2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Dave C
uhhh... me.... an probably every other guy who has less than 50 employees.
50 employees is not a small business, IMO. Small business's are the Mom and Pop setups, I would think under 10-15 employees would make it a small business.

OGShocker

08-03-2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by AZKC
50 employees is not a small business, IMO. Small business's are the Mom and Pop setups, I would think under 10-15 employees would make it a small business.
and a family with a gross income of $100,000 are rich?:rolleyes:

OGShocker

08-03-2004, 06:16 PM

Bre,
Here is some stuff for you.... (http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd.htm)

AZKC

08-03-2004, 06:18 PM

To us that make less than that, what do you think :confused:
Speakin of..... whats the current avg income for so called middle class(Gross Household)?

angry dad

08-03-2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Dave C
get the facts straight.
advance against a future tax BREAK you had to claim on your 1040.
Davec<------ CPA.....:p
try to keep the tax break rhetoric to a minimum, I'm here to keep you honest. nice job!!!:D

summerlove

08-03-2004, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Dave C
get the facts straight.
advance against a future tax BREAK you had to claim on your 1040.
Davec<------ CPA.....:p
did we see the future tax break? I know I didn't!

Bre

08-03-2004, 07:34 PM

I make $100 a week:D Am I low class:eek:

Dr. Eagle

08-03-2004, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by AZKC
Speakin of..... whats the current avg income for so called middle class(Gross Household)?
That's a very valid question. I don't know the answer to that one... and I don't know if John Kerry of George Bush knows the answer to that. It just sounds good... probably since more people consider themselves middle class than not.

Debbolas

08-03-2004, 07:42 PM

Bre, if you are registered to vote you will receive a pamphlet in the mail. This will have all the issues up for vote plus the peole runnig for office will have a little "blurb" written in this. Read the pamphlet, it will help you decide.
Another good thing to do is to visit a few web sites of the people running for office.
Your vote is private, no one will ever know who or what you voted for.
If you have any questions, just PM me.
Deb
;)

ratso

08-03-2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Bre
I make $100 a week:D Am I low class:eek:
You aren't low class...but you are a class act...:D

Bre

08-03-2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Debbolas
Bre, if you are registered to vote you will receive a pamphlet in the mail. This will have all the issues up for vote plus the peole runnig for office will have a little "blurb" written in this. Read the pamphlet, it will help you decide.
Another good thing to do is to visit a few web sites of the people running for office.
Your vote is private, no one will ever know who or what you voted for.
If you have any questions, just PM me.
Deb
;)
Thanks Deb:)

Debbolas

08-03-2004, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Bre
Thanks Deb:)
Anytime sweetheart!
:D

Bre

08-03-2004, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by ratso
You aren't low class...but you are a class act...:D
I am as low as they come:D

Dave C

08-03-2004, 07:48 PM

SL,
you said income. either thats spin or a lie. you pick.
and yes we did see the break. I'm sorry you didn't see yours. suggestion. try looking harder.
example: You got two nice kids. I don't know your AGI but if you have less than $110,000 jointly then you got an $800 INCREASE in the credit (reduction) towards your tax due.
Originally posted by summerlove
did we see the future tax break? I know I didn't!
Originally posted by summerlove
It counted as income!!!

Dave C

08-03-2004, 07:50 PM

AZKC.
I got no employees does that make me small enough for you?
10-15 sounds reasonable to me also.
whats your point? I have seen 10-15 employee firms make mucho dinero (owner $1mil++), while 100 person business can't make a dime.
so?.....

Bre

08-03-2004, 07:51 PM

HUmmmm...... ok
Hope it's not me your talking so nicely too:eek:

Dave C

08-03-2004, 07:57 PM

Bre,
Not you silly.
your the nice one around here.:D

Bre

08-03-2004, 07:58 PM

Oh ok..just checking:idea: :p

AZKC

08-04-2004, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Dave C
AZKC.
I got no employees does that make me small enough for you?
10-15 sounds reasonable to me also.
whats your point? I have seen 10-15 employee firms make mucho dinero (owner $1mil++), while 100 person business can't make a dime.
so?.....
Well the mil++, takes them out of the small business's I'm talking about. You know the ones I'm talking about, working 15-20 hour days, barely making payroll, month to month not sure if their open next month, you know the american dream:wink:
Oh yeah and congrats on being self employed. And sticking with your schooling to get an education:cool:

cdog

08-04-2004, 06:12 AM

A Silver Spoon Trust Fund Gaylord. Yes indeed he is.
What does he know about the poor. He grew up with the Kennedys. F'in phoney.

Jeanyus

08-04-2004, 06:24 AM

Bre
Heres another way to make your choice for president.
Do you want a guy who looks like a plain, somewhat dumb country boy, not real handsome, but not ugly.
Or do you want a guy who look like Herman Munster and Gomer Pyle.
Remember the president will be on tv for the next 4 years.
Do you want to look at, not to handsome country boy Bush?
Or ugly Munster, Pyle. Kerry?

MagicMtnDan

08-04-2004, 06:25 AM

Bre, we can make this simple:
Do you want to pay more taxes? (If you do vote for Kerry - he's running on raising our taxes)
Do you want the most liberal senator in the United States as your President? (If you like Ted Kennedy you'll want to vote for Kerry)
Do you want a VP who is a trail lawyer who made tens of millions of dollars by suing hospitals, doctors (and blaming them for causing genetic afflictions)? If so vote for Kerry & Edwards
Do you want your tax dollars to pay for healthcare of those who don't/won't work? (Kerry calls this "free healthcare for everybody") If you do, vote for Kerry
Do you care about who the First Lady is? If you don't vote for Kerry. His wife was married to a conservative Republican who died (Senatory John Heinz) and now she's married to a far left liberal (who looks dead - sorry couldn't resist). She was born in Africa and is an egotistical, elitist (think stuck up royal family), very wealthy snob.
Do you want your Pastie business to have to pay more taxes? If so then vote for Kerry. Personally, I want your Pastie business to be VERY successful - maybe women will start wearing them to work! :D :cool: Now THAT would be cool!
PS: vote for Bush so we can be safe

91nordic29

08-04-2004, 06:26 AM

HighRoller

08-04-2004, 06:28 AM

Well the mil++, takes them out of the small business's I'm talking about. You know the ones I'm talking about, working 15-20 hour days, barely making payroll, month to month not sure if their open next month, you know the american dream
Got news for you AZKC. There is NOTHING any president can do to substantially improve this kind of person's position substantially. A little help here and there, sure, but if you're barely making it it's most likely a problem somewhere in your operating philosophy or business model. I don't say that in a derogatory way, either. Very few get it right the first time. I'd have to say the biggest problem is that people start businesses on a wing and a prayer with insufficient operating capital and they end up in precisely the dilemma you described because once they have a bad month or two their debt is overwhelming them. Again, no outside intervention from a politician will save them.
As far as a "small business" making a million dollars a year? It's a lot more common than you think. I personally know two businesses of less than 10 people that grossed 3 million and 7 million respectively. There is even a small business out there that has 9 employees and grosses 900 million a year. Do you define small business by employees or gross receipts? There's quite a difference between the two.

Dr. Eagle

08-04-2004, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by 91nordic29
i might as well get mine over with too!;) :cool:
OK...... thump!
There, that wasn't so bad was it?:D

Bre

08-04-2004, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Bre, we can make this simple:
Do you want to pay more taxes? (If you do vote for Kerry - he's running on raising our taxes)
Do you want the most liberal senator in the United States as your President? (If you like Ted Kennedy you'll want to vote for Kerry)
Do you want a VP who is a trail lawyer who made tens of millions of dollars by suing hospitals, doctors (and blaming them for causing genetic afflictions)? If so vote for Kerry & Edwards
Do you want your tax dollars to pay for healthcare of those who don't/won't work? (Kerry calls this "free healthcare for everybody") If you do, vote for Kerry
Do you care about who the First Lady is? If you don't vote for Kerry. His wife was married to a conservative Republican who died (Senatory John Heinz) and now she's married to a far left liberal (who looks dead - sorry couldn't resist). She was born in Africa and is an egotistical, elitist (think stuck up royal family), very wealthy snob.
Do you want your Pastie business to have to pay more taxes? If so then vote for Kerry. Personally, I want your Pastie business to be VERY successful - maybe women will start wearing them to work! :D :cool: Now THAT would be cool!
PS: vote for Bush so we can be safe
I have to pay taxes selling pasties:eek:
Thanks MMD:)

91nordic29

08-04-2004, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
OK...... thump!
There, that wasn't so bad was it?:D
whew! that wasnt bad at all, Doctor;) :cool:

Dr. Eagle

08-04-2004, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by 91nordic29
whew! that wasnt bad at all, Doctor;) :cool: ;) :D ;)
Funny thing is I have as much problem with Bush as you probably do... just probably over the opposite things...;)

v-drive

08-04-2004, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Jeanyus
Bre
Heres another way to make your choice for president.
Do you want a guy who looks like a plain, somewhat dumb country boy, not real handsome, but not ugly.
Or do you want a guy who look like Herman Munster and Gomer Pyle.
Remember the president will be on tv for the next 4 years.
Do you want to look at, not to handsome country boy Bush?
Or ugly Munster, Pyle. Kerry?
And don't forget that wife of his. Kerry is her bitch and I believe that. :cool: v-drive

AZKC

08-04-2004, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by HighRoller
Got news for you AZKC. There is NOTHING any president can do to substantially improve this kind of person's position substantially. A little help here and there, sure, but if you're barely making it it's most likely a problem somewhere in your operating philosophy or business model. I don't say that in a derogatory way, either. Very few get it right the first time. I'd have to say the biggest problem is that people start businesses on a wing and a prayer with insufficient operating capital and they end up in precisely the dilemma you described because once they have a bad month or two their debt is overwhelming them. Again, no outside intervention from a politician will save them.
As far as a "small business" making a million dollars a year? It's a lot more common than you think. I personally know two businesses of less than 10 people that grossed 3 million and 7 million respectively. There is even a small business out there that has 9 employees and grosses 900 million a year. Do you define small business by employees or gross receipts? There's quite a difference between the two.
I guess I'm talking gross receipts:confused: You know the mom and pop setups. I understand what your saying about internal problems affecting the bottom line. Politicians can't fix it but they sure make it tough on some and easy on others.
Lots of people out there just barely making it and seems the middle class has become lower class and seems kinda sh!tty.
Oh yeah and this is not one of those "I have this friend" ploys. I'm a goverment employee and I want a raise dam it.
:p :D

91nordic29

08-04-2004, 07:05 AM

PS---
john edwards is a HOTTIE!!:D ;)

Dave C

08-04-2004, 07:52 AM

AZ,
I'd rather be a struggling small business working for myself than working for someone else, even if I was break even.
I see both of them, struggling and not struggling. In either case both are happy to be self-employed. (although the guy making money is "happier");)
The owners of some of the small labor-type business (i.e. HVAC, plumbers, construction) can make big bucks (owners $250,000+/year).
It all depends on the skill of the owner.
The highest paid jobs that I see don't require a college education (but it helps), just some skill and motivation, outside sales for big companies that have good products. (damn!):eek:
The biggest complaint I hear from small business' is the cost to them for the over-regulation of their business by the government. Taxes, workers compensation, insurance, etc. It all adds up and takes away from their bottom line.
P.S. AZ, I like your signature line. Cracks me up everytime I see it.

Rick James

08-04-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Bre
Is there a site or something for each of them that states what they believe in and what they want to do for our country???
Fo Shizzle!
:eek: :confused: :confused:

AZKC

08-04-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Dave C
P.S. AZ, I like your signature line. Cracks me up everytime I see it.
Believing in equal time, there is one similar but they are hitting each other :D Which is more in line with the bashing that goes on between the two parties.
I tried self employement for about a year but I fired myself for lack of productivity and over spending;)

Froggystyle

08-04-2004, 11:12 AM

Bre,
If you really want all of the information delivered to you with as much from both sides... Register as undecided on the party affiliation. You will get A LOT from both parties. Just take it all with a grain of salt.
As it has been said, you will find a middle ground in it all.
I for one read Dem propaganda and find their "negatives" regarding Bush to be positives in my eyes. They are certainly not trying to woo a guy like me with their stuff. I find the Republican "negatives" about Kerry appalling and feel strongly about him not getting into office.
The most disturbing thing to me is the "Anyone but Bush" philosophy. Without going into too much detail, Bush has done a very good job selecting a lot of very appropriate people for his cabinet and high ranking presidential appointed officials. I think that his people are top notch, and with advice from guys like these, I think you could do worse.
As an example, I have a board of advisors for Trident. I am neither experienced in boat building, nor company building. But with the advice of people who are outstanding in each field, with subject matter experts giving me candid counsel I feel that we have built the best boat we can using my vision and their experience. I have to liken that to Bush's decision making group.
We call it our "Good Idea Club" ;) We often don't agree on a path, and I usually go their way.

Bre

08-04-2004, 11:16 AM

Thanks Froggy

Seadog

08-04-2004, 12:17 PM

The pity is that there is no party for the middle of the road people. However, seeing the elitist attitude of the Kerry supporters and who pushes him the most, scares me.
You have the most liberal colleges, the Hollywood 'elite', the unions and the trial lawyers all pushing for Kerry. They kowtow to the minorities by attacking law enforcement and businesses. They push give away programs to the poor and ignore the fact that the money omes from the strapped middle class. They claim to be making the rich pay for the programs, but if you look, the rich are more middle class. And if they truly heavily tax the very rich, then we will see them move to other countries like the British experienced.
The Democrats like to shove the relationship with Europe as sign of Bush's failure. We had just as bad a relationship under Clinton, it just did not get as much attention. The Democrats claim we got drawn into war due to Bush, and ignore Haiti, Bosnia and several other 'incidents' that Clinton got us into. We went into Afganistan because their government supported Al Queda, who attacked the U.S. in a tragedy worse than what got us involved in the Spanish American War, WWI or WWII.
I personally felt that we should have waited a year or so to attack Iraq, but we had reasons to go in there. Some have proven wrong and some are still under debate. I find fault more with the lack of some military commanders to recognize that the war is not to won by traditional battles. History has shown that you can win battles and lose the war.

INXS

08-04-2004, 12:27 PM

"So if your poor vote for Kerry and if your rich vote for Bush???"
Well, one way to look at it is kerry, the libs, think it's their money, Bush, the conservatives, feel it's your money!

INXS

08-04-2004, 12:30 PM

This site my enlighten you a little!
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html

eliminatedsprinter

08-04-2004, 12:34 PM

I have an idea. Just for fun, let's assume that the Democrts are telling the truth when they portray the repulicians a the party of greed that represents the rich and powerfull and that they (the Dems) represent the poor and disenfranchised.
Why would I want to support a party that has a vested stake in promoting poverty and disenfranchisement (to keep it's base strong) rather than one that would support individual wealth and power....;)

gnarley

08-04-2004, 12:44 PM

Try to think for yourself Bre. Everyone has their own ideas and opinions, and you need to generate your own.
try this
http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html
and this
http://georgebush.com/
Originally posted by eliminatedsprinter
I have an idea. Just for fun, let's assume that the Democrts are telling the truth when they portray the repulicians a the party of greed that represents the rich and powerfull and that they (the Dems) represent the poor and disenfranchised.
Why would I want to support a party that has a vested stake in promoting poverty and disenfranchisement (to keep it's base strong) rather than one that would support individual wealth and power....;)
It's not that they promote it, they are tring to better a group segment that they represent aren't they?

Froggystyle

08-04-2004, 01:02 PM

It's not that they promote it, they are tring to better a group segment that they represent aren't they?
The point is, they are representing the segment that is least able to solve problems.
Well known fact, one business owner moves out of California, you remove the tax base of over 100 "average" people, regardless of how many people the business employs.
The fact is, I don't know anyone that isn't a business owner that pays any appreciable income tax. Almost everyone I knew in the Navy got back nearly 100% of what they put in. Because they didn't make enough money to pay taxes on it supposedly. Me included BTW...
Once you start making enough money to get taxed at all, you get the shit taxed out of you. Because of household income, I am paying well over 32% right now. Without shelters, this would suck big time.
The problem with this is, if you make it hard to make money as an owner, you make it hard for anyone to work as an employee. You HAVE to have successful small business (100 employees or less in my opinion) to have successful small business employees. I am paying so big right now for Workmans comp, Liability, Property and Income taxes right now it is difficult to believe this is just the begginning.
New York had some high taxes on tobacco goods a while back. Hillary Clinton and komrades came in and added a ton to the already high tax for New York. In theory, it should either double the tax income from tobacco, or cause people to stop buying it and the state gets healthier 'cause the quit.
Neither happenned. People started buying a lot more from out of state over the internet. Now they are paying ZERO state taxes because it is interstate commerce from an out of state business, and the cost is significantly lower. Studies show that smokers actually increased their intake because they were buying in bulk now! So, as a result of NY's inappropriate tax hike, revenue generated from tobacco sales went down nearly 60 something %, and use went up.
In addition, Hillary has since this debacle become a major supporter of the internet tax, and a state tax on imported goods from other states. In my opinion, it is all so she can get back the money she lost on the tobacco tax. Bummer is, this affects all of us.
Government should be schools, courts, military, police, fire and transportation. Very little else. It is way too big. The tail is wagging the dog now.
In the words of my old XO... "The pedulum never stops in the middle." There will be repercussions for this mentality, and eventually it will move towards a more minimalist government, either by hook or by crook.

Dave C

08-04-2004, 01:57 PM

LMAO
Originally posted by AZKC
Believing in equal time, there is one similar but they are hitting each other :D Which is more in line with the bashing that goes on between the two parties.
I tried self employement for about a year but I fired myself for lack of productivity and over spending;)

summerlove

08-04-2004, 06:26 PM

SL,
you said income. either thats spin or a lie. you pick.
and yes we did see the break. I'm sorry you didn't see yours. suggestion. try looking harder.
example: You got two nice kids. I don't know your AGI but if you have less than $110,000 jointly then you got an $800 INCREASE in the credit (reduction) towards your tax due.
First off, I do not lie. Second, it was still an advance. third, I guess I wasn't eligible for it.

summerlove

08-04-2004, 06:28 PM