Being liberal... A BAD thing?

[AzDon]

I didn't write this article, but it explains exactly how I feel about the derogatory intonation of the word liberal.
Go ahead, make my day--Call me a liberal.
Arizona Republic
The speech bubble over the dog's picture says, "Hi. My name's 'No, No, Bad Dog!' What's yours?"
That dog is an American liberal. L word became an epithet because liberals gave up without a fight years ago.
They ceded the moral high ground to guys with the big radio voices who insist conservative means "God and country". Liberal, on the other hand, was equated with all things godless and unpatriotic.
Whoever dreamed up this hooey probably never imagined it would be so easy to sell, but liberals were too busy building houses for poor folks protesting the felling of old growth trees and not bothering to vote. They just shrugged. Meanwhile, the democrats, who should have given those liberals a reason to vote, went on the defensive.
Now they cringe like the bad dog to hear John Kerry and John Edwards described as having "the most liberal and the fourth-most liberal" voting records in Congress.
Like it's an insult.
Like they did something nasty on the living room rug. But liberal is not a dirty word or an obsolete philosophy, so all you e-mailers who try to blast me with messages that start "You liberals..." are going to have to realize I don't take it as an insult, and I don't think anyone else should either.
America is steeped in liberal values. Even if huge numbers of Americans have been indoctrinated to think "values" is a word of, by, and for the conservatives.
It is in fact the government that is supposed to be of, by, and for something. And that something, as Abe Lincoln said, is "the people". It is a legitimate function of the government as the constitution says, to "promote the general welfare".
Liberal ideas have done a great deal to fulfill the quest for a "more perfect union". So much that many people take the blessings of liberalism for granted.
There's social security. Ask Granny if that was a good idea. And Medicare and Medicaid. There might also be a comprehensible health insurance program for the rest of us if Bill Clinton's efforts hadn't been derailed.
Those who say social services are expensive are right. But failing to provide them can have a bigger cost. And, besides, it was Ronald Reagan who produced the kind of deficits that George W. is apparently trying to match. Tell me again who's philosophy is fiscally responsible?
Liberal thinking also codified civil rights, opening up new opportunities for women and minorities. All those who think that was a mistake, please sit in the back of the bus for a few decades.
Those who think it would have happened eventually without federal interference, please reread Langston Hughes' poem, A Dream Deferred.
Liberal ideas also make your pocketbook safer. Do you feel confident putting your money in the bank? Thank the FDIC, a creation of FDR's New Deal, which also gave us the SEC to regulate the stock market.
Corporate scandals raised questions about the quality of the oversight, but Enron and Worldcom sure didn't make a case against regulation. Just the contrary.
Americans accept government regulation in all sorts of areas. From laws against pollution to handicap parking spaces because they understand that the government has a role in furthering the greater public good.
In the August cover story on "Liberalism Regained", Ralph Nader asked Harper's magazine the rhetorical question, "When was the last time you saw a major democratic candidate brag about how many lives the democrats saved by pushing through air and water pollution laws, auto safety laws, and the consumer product safety commission bill?"
Nader represents the "divided we fail" approach to relegitimatizing liberalism as obsolete as a Corvair. Howard Dean, on the other hand, is rallying the liberal troops to remake and retake the democratic party from within in November and beyond.
In June, he spoke to a Campaign for America's Future conference about the importance of emulating the long-term organizational strategies that brought the Republicans to power.
"We know what the right wing has done, and we are going to have to do it [also]," he said. The conference was called Take Back America.
At a not-for-primetime rally by the same group during the democratic convention, Dean again called for democrats to follow the right's example. "Run candidates for everything from library trustee on up," he urged.
It just might work. But only if bad dog liberals learn something else from their more successful political opposites. NEVER ACT LIKE YOU ARE ASHAMED OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

[schiada96]

bla bla bla. Your crap is getting very old

[summerlove]

bla bla bla. Your crap is getting very old
you just made his point....

[schiada96]

You know all of this non boating stuff sucks. There are plenty of forums where your and Don's opinions can be put to use. Why preach to a choir that doesn't follow your beliefs.
SL by the way nice bow rail

[haulina29]

Liberalisim the cancer that is killing our country . I f your granny is living off social security in these times she must have been asleep for 60 years anybody who lived thru the last 3 generations and has nothing has deeper problems than i care to discuss . As a white american male i would be imbarrased to be associated with the term liberal . Wake up look who is in your party LMFAO :cry:

[AzDon]

You know all of this non boating stuff sucks. There are plenty of forums where your and Don's opinions can be put to use. Why preach to a choir that doesn't follow your beliefs.
I've got an idea:
Lets all petition ***boat online to ban ALL threads and posts with any hint of political content......The Sandbar is the correct forum for non-boating subjects, but I'd be completely okay with a "no politics or religion" policy!
Do you have a problem with the fairness of allowing opposing viewpoints?
If so, maybe you'd be more happy in Cuba where free speech is not allowed. I don't think you are going to have much luck squelching free speech on a utility owned by Larry Flynt!

[rrrr]

Liberal thinking also codified civil rights, opening up new opportunities for women and minorities. All those who think that was a mistake, please sit in the back of the bus for a few decades.
Oh, you gonna take credit for that? The Southern Democrats fought like h3ll against civil rights.
Just one example in that long winded piece of blurring the facts quite nicely.

[WaTchTheGelCoat]

Liberalisim the cancer that is killing our country . I f your granny is living off social security in these times she must have been asleep for 60 years anybody who lived thru the last 3 generations and has nothing has deeper problems than i care to discuss . As a white american male i would be imbarrased to be associated with the term liberal . Wake up look who is in your party LMFAO :cry:
I am not a republican or a democrat, personally i dont give a damn about politics. My grand mother doesnt live off of SS, if she did, why would it be such a bad thing? Thats what its there for, but for some reason we are supporting people that enter this country illlegaly with it, thats ok? If SS is such a bad thing why the hell is it still in place? If my or any generation isnt gonna get anything out of it, why the hell am i forced to pay in to it? To take care of illegals? **** that.

[schiada96]

I've got an idea:
Lets all petition ***boat online to ban ALL threads and posts with any hint of political content......The Sandbar is the correct forum for non-boating subjects, but I'd be completely okay with a "no politics or religion" policy!
Do you have a problem with the fairness of allowing opposing viewpoints?
If so, maybe you'd be more happy in Cuba where free speech is not allowed. I don't think you are going to have much luck squelching free speech on a utility owned by Larry Flynt!
I don't have a problem with fairness just try it it on your site. This crap is old don't you see that

[Dr. Eagle]

OK... if it'll make your day... LIBERAL! :) :D

[Kachina26]

Liberals scare me just as much as extreme far right wing conservatives.(I think of myself as a conservative)We need both to find a happy medium, I will continue to work against liberal ideals like driver licenses for illegals and the right to vote for illegals (ala San Francisco). Yes, good things come from them, tempered by the other side. Just as Good things come from my conservative camp, tempered by libs. I am a Christian, but the big haired guy on TV scares and emabarrasses me, many think that we are all like that, just as many of us view libs to be like the Jesse Jacksons we see on tv and the AZDons we see on the net. I know that there on some good intentioned libs out there, but the nuts are out front taking up all the camera time.

[gnarley]

AZDon isn't so bad; those of us that are more moderate need someone to help balance the political picture here. If it weren't for him and a few others this would be a right wing strong hold. I am glad he posts to keep the righties in check, and I am amazed at the disrespect that so many people show someone that stands by his opinion even if they view it as wrong. We ALL have a right to our opinions but to cuss at someone for their convictions I feel just shows your arrogance and lack of tolerance.

[Lake Pirate]

Fight fire with fire.

[HighRoller]

Liberalism=Socialism=Communism. Start with liberals and end up with the USSR. John Kerry is a new world liberal socialist. His mother lives in France. He endorses the U.N. He claims to have his tongue up the ass of foreign leaders all over the world. Yet he has accomplished nothing in his life except marrying two rich bitches to get out of debt.

[gnarley]

His mother lives in France. He endorses the U.N. He claims to have his tongue up the ass of foreign leaders all over the world. Yet he has accomplished nothing in his life except marrying two rich bitches to get out of debt.
OK, so other than the mother in France, the U.N. and having his tongue in places I didn't want to think about you feel he has accomplished nothing other than marrying two rich bitches?
What have you done that makes you a better man and puts you in a place that you are able to criticize him? Do you have the credentials that make you believable? Or are you worried that he might really get elected and you are spouting off because of your fear?

[haulina29]

Highroller :D

[eliminatedsprinter]

I seldom use the word liberal anymore. I used to discribe myself as one, long ago back in the days when, to some of us, it still ment open minded and free thinking etc...Unfortunatly, lately, the term liberal has been bastardized to mean 'left winger". It's a shame really that such a good word that was once used to discribe many of the the ideas and ideals that have made our country great is now used almost exclusively to describe some of todays most narrow minded thinkers who are still following the 100+ year old dogma of the political left. How did we get to the point were we call people who want the governtment to tax, regulate, ban, or control so many things liberal???

[mirvin]

Ever notice that liberals don't seem to have much happiness? They're just bitter....Is that why they want to controll everyone and regulate their fun??
mirvin ;)

[gnarley]

Ever notice that liberals don't seem to have much happiness? They're just bitter....Is that why they want to controll everyone and regulate their fun??
mirvin ;)
Tell that to the people that worker for and had invested in ENRON

[mirvin]

Tell that to the people that worker for and had invested in ENRON
Whaaaaa?
mirvin :)

[carbonmarine]

RIGHT WING WHACKO...... Where does that come from....?
Seem these Liberals have .. or rather are indeed suffering from a major
case of " Thin Skin, mommy they are beating me up at school syndrome " ...
Its seems they may be too sensitive ?? and thus my require us all to attend sensitivuty or anger managment as personally I believe this tiopic has spurned a little time to think & reflect amongst themselves about why has the connotation become so ingrained in Main Street Americana as a little off tilt and perhaps how on Earth in a two party system The Demcratic Party could have allowed their identity to be highjacked...?? Call it rise of teh Independants, pro-Literaians, etc... ...
The main thing for most people here to distinguish here is that there IS / AND are major differences between what Liberalism truly is and what a Democrate used to be.... They are not the same in philosophy and by the actions of Liberals whom have highjacked the party, perhaps we can look forward to a three party system via a new Democratic Party or something of the sort in the future..??
So. Screw Liberalism, its ideals and its practices. It has no use in free society or for that matter a Capitalistic Society.
Just my two cents.... Summer what do you say ????
Rick32 :cool:
By the way to see whom espouses liberal ideal take a look at PETA, BLUE WATER NETWORK ( lake havasu marina ) , NOW, EARTH FIRST, ELF, ACLU< ETC...

[gnarley]

Whaaaaa?
mirvin :)
How many states and their citizens got ripped off due to the energy trading manipulation that cost every one of us California residents extra money that was a direct result of ENRON's practices? Every Republican and Democrat citizen should be pissed, you aren't?
If it weren't for checks and balances some of the larger business would rake the average Republican and Democrat consumer over the coals. Do any of you remember the S&L scandal in the 80's that sent Michael Milken to Jail over the Junk bond scandals which caused reform in the S&L industry? Who bailed them out? US, average you and me Republican and Democrat alike, we paid those bills! That wasn't the liberals setting up the checks and balances it was Congress to protect the average Republican and Democrat from getting reamed. How many Republicans were not happy due to that reaming?
Do you like your high energy costs??? Thank your energy producers who lobbied the state legislature to de-regulate the power industry. Who is paying the cost for that now? All of us, Republican and Democrat's alike! Are you Republican small business owner? Do you like the high costs of energy? Thank your brethren for helping you out.

[Jordy]

I've got an idea:
Lets all petition ***boat online to ban ALL threads and posts with any hint of political content......The Sandbar is the correct forum for non-boating subjects, but I'd be completely okay with a "no politics or religion" policy!
Do you have a problem with the fairness of allowing opposing viewpoints?
If so, maybe you'd be more happy in Cuba where free speech is not allowed. I don't think you are going to have much luck squelching free speech on a utility owned by Larry Flynt!
I have another idea. Let's all register on Don's site and have all the political talk over there. He likes to have it over hear and cites free speech, hell, I think it's only fair.
To the Batmobile!!! :D :D :D

[eliminatedsprinter]

Tell that to the people that worker for and had invested in ENRON
?????Talk about your suprise non-sequitur.
How does being a crime victim have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative? Esp since ENRON bribed off "liberals" and "conservatives" while they were running amuck in the late 90s and early 00s..P.S. The politician they gave the most money to was Ca's own, "liberal" in charge, Grey Davis. :idea: :rolleyes:
P.S. I put tha word liberal in " ", because I still don't feel good about giving that title to left wing hacks....

[gnarley]

?????Talk about your suprise non-sequitur.
How does being a crime victim have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative? Esp since ENRON bribed off "liberals" and conservatives while they were running amuck in the late 90s and early 00s..P.S. The politician they gave the most money to was Ca's own, "liberal" in charge, Grey Davis. :idea: :rolleyes:
P.S. I put tha word liberal in " ", because I still don't feel good about giving that title to left wing hacks....
According to Kenneth Lay and others they did nothing wrong. We became crime victims, as a direct effect of de-regulation. If we still had the regulatory commission handling energy the way it was before de-regulation none of this would have happened and ENRON may not have been able to manipulate the market the way it did. There is cause and effect. Some of us know the effect but don't quite know what caused it.

[eliminatedsprinter]

According to Kenneth Lay and others they did nothing
wrong. We became crime victims, as a direct effect of de-regulation. If we still had the regulatory commission handling energy the way it was before de-regulation none of this would have happened and ENRON may not have been able to manipulate the market the way it did. There is cause and effect. Some of us know the effect but don't quite know what caused it.
"According to Kenneth Lay and others" ???Not much of a reliable source of info if you ask me...
I'm not buying what you are saying here, for 2 reasons.
#1. We never had any meaningfull de-regulation here in Ca. What we had was an assinanine comprimise, that added up to what can only be called "stupid regulation" and has no resemblance to the de-regulation that has been successful in other states.
#2. They broke several existing laws (and hopefully their trials will prove it) so while adding some new laws for them to break may seem like a good idea, it is probably is just magical thinking to think it would have stopped them.

[mirvin]

Gnarley, I see.
I was however talking about wacky regulation, like no smoking, drinking or eating here there or anywhere while children or adults are present etc. You know, regulating our personal lives.
Regulating industry I have no problem with, as long as it isn't rediculous.
mirvin
:cool:

[Dr. Eagle]

According to Kenneth Lay and others they did nothing wrong. We became crime victims, as a direct effect of de-regulation. If we still had the regulatory commission handling energy the way it was before de-regulation none of this would have happened and ENRON may not have been able to manipulate the market the way it did. There is cause and effect. Some of us know the effect but don't quite know what caused it.
The de-regulation law was horribly flawed and should have never been enacted. It doesn't mean de-regulation won't work... it just means you can't put a cap on prices without some method of adjusting for increases in cost.
That being said, I would say there was nothing wrong with the energy market as it was before de-regulation. Just as I think that sewer and water systems should not be de-regulated. The municipal monopoly based on rate of return on investment is not very efficient, but it is stable. At least you know what you are dealing with.

[Dr. Eagle]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1152139Sign1-med.jpg
Of course it could be said that perhaps they don't always focus on the important stuff... :)