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Hallett19
08-08-2004, 04:06 PM
Well, I heard a story that powell could be dried up in a few years, is there any truth to this ??

Scream
08-08-2004, 04:09 PM
Ok, in order
1. Only if they don't stop the idiotic behavior of letting out 5 times as much as is coming into the lake.
2. Someone needs to bitch slap the enviro-nazis, all of em, doesn't matter what they're for, just bitch slap 'em
3. That lil fat kid in your sig is the best, where the hell did you get that from. I keep lookin and I think I've counted 6 chins so far...

Hallett19
08-08-2004, 07:00 PM
So probably wont be empty in a few years ? Are they letting all the water out to feed mead ? I am lost :confused: Oh, I found that fat kid on www.bangedup.com , its good :)

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:23 PM
National Park Service predicts that Powell will be at "dead pool" in 2007/8 if the drought continues. Dead pool is when the lake does not have sufficent water to run the generators but water flows throug the dam. Basically, the enviro's get their way.... :o :yuk:

Debbolas
08-08-2004, 08:29 PM
I thought the low lake level was the result of a drought and the dam letting the same amount of water out as if it wasn't a drought.
I also heard they were going to "adjust" the levels of lakes above Lake Powell, to help fill up Powell and Mead.

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:30 PM
I thought the low lake level was the result of a drought and the dam letting the same amount of water out as if it wasn't a drought.
I also heard they were going to "adjust" the levels of lakes above Lake Powell, to help fill up Powell and Mead.
Sweetheart, there aren't any lake above Lake Powell....

Scream
08-08-2004, 08:33 PM
when we were there, I was talking to a NPS ranger on the ramp. He said he'd heard two rumors, and restated they we rumors only, that either they were going to limit outflow from the dam to match the inflow, or they were going to sacrafice reservoirs up stream to help the situation. No matter how they do it, they need to make a decision and deal with the loss of pool level.

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:37 PM
when we were there, I was talking to a NPS ranger on the ramp. He said he'd heard two rumors, and restated they we rumors only, that either they were going to limit outflow from the dam to match the inflow, or they were going to sacrafice reservoirs up stream to help the situation. No matter how they do it, they need to make a decision and deal with the loss of pool level.
Flaming Gorge Res. in Utah/Idaho is the only major lake upstream that flows into the colorado. Small potatos. Snowpack baby! Can we all say El Nino? If we all stop watering our beautiful green lawns then maybe we stand a chance! :jawdrop:

bigerich
08-08-2004, 08:39 PM
It would take a very long time for Powell to become totally dry. The penstock openings are something like 300 feet above the river bottom at the dam, meaning it would be a rather sizeable lake for years to come. As far as lakes above Powell, I don't think there is anything above Powell of any real size. Also, unfortunately for us, the decisions to adjust the flow would not be because of recreation, it would have to do with water supply further down the Colorado river. If anyone wants to learn alot of cool information about Glen Canyon Dam, I highly suggest reading "A Story that Stands Like a Dam" by Russell Martin. It goes into great depth about the reasons the dam was built and stories about Page, Az. and ofcourse about the bulding of the dam itself.

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:42 PM
It would take a very long time for Powell to become totally dry. The penstock openings are something like 300 feet above the river bottom at the dam, meaning it would be a rather sizeable lake for years to come. As far as lakes above Powell, I don't think there is anything above Powell of any real size.
as of 7/16, at the dam, the lake was 350' above bottom.
see picture below:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/951HPIM2175-med.JPG

Debbolas
08-08-2004, 08:44 PM
Well I like that lake and wish it had more water..................Why are we growing rice in the desert?

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:46 PM
If anyone wants to learn alot of cool information about Glen Canyon Dam, I highly suggest reading "A Story that Stands Like a Dam" by Russell Martin. It goes into great depth about the reasons the dam was built and stories about Page, Az. and ofcourse about the bulding of the dam itself.
"Cadillac Desert" is also a good read....thought provoking!

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:48 PM
Well I like that lake and wish it had more water..................Why are we growing rice in the desert?
While we were there, we found a corn field! No shit! It was amazing- in the middle of the lake on a small opening in a rock formation, there was a corn field! About 100 plants, darndest thing I ever saw! I wish I took a picture!

bigerich
08-08-2004, 08:51 PM
as of 7/16, at the dam, the lake was 350' above bottom.
see picture below:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/951HPIM2175-med.JPG
I see the picture, but I do not see the BOTTOM of the dam..........

Debbolas
08-08-2004, 08:53 PM
While we were there, we found a corn field! No shit! It was amazing- in the middle of the lake on a small opening in a rock formation, there was a corn field! About 100 plants, darndest thing I ever saw! I wish I took a picture!
In the little canyons I hiked in, it seemed that most of the plants growing were native plants (good)
The rice comment was directed at the California Central Valley Farmers, they get really cheap water and have decided to grow rice..........in the desert! I'm pretty sure that is more of a problem than watering my lawn.... :eek:

summerlove
08-08-2004, 08:58 PM
In the little canyons I hiked in, it seemed that most of the plants growing were native plants (good)
The rice comment was directed at the California Central Valley Farmers, they get really cheap water and have decided to grow rice..........in the desert! I'm pretty sure that is more of a problem than watering my lawn.... :eek:
it's my fault because I vote for a democrat at some point in my life! :eek: I apologize now and forever.... :D but that doesn't make toomuch sense.

Debbolas
08-08-2004, 09:04 PM
it's my fault because I vote for a democrat at some point in my life! :eek: I apologize now and forever.... :D but that doesn't make toomuch sense.
um............I've had a couple beers............and I don't understand what your post means? :confused:

Sleek-Jet
08-08-2004, 09:09 PM
In the little canyons I hiked in, it seemed that most of the plants growing were native plants (good)
Carefull there Deb, Tamarisk (sp?) is not a native plant. :D
As for "adjusting" water levels above Powell, there is entire system of smaller reseviours in the Colorado River drainage. During runoff they get filled first, but they have to let so many CFS out to satisfy downstream water contracts/requirements. If those contracts/requirements are changed, more water will be allowed downstream, which equals more water in Powell.
The big debate will come when the drought breaks and Powell starts to re-fill, expect a pretty good fight.
Here is a radical idea, maybe everyone in Arizona, California, and Nevada could start to radically reduce the amount of water we use. Pull out the grass and put in plants that don't take as much water, stop watering the golf courses, drain the pool, don't wash the car as often... hey it's an idea. :idea:

NuckinFutz
08-09-2004, 08:25 PM
Flaming Gorge is far from full as well. The Tamarisk is a major problem with the entire Colorado River system. There is some studies going on as we speak concerning a beetle that seems to only have a hunger for Tamarisk, but they are confirming they will not eat other vegatation after the Tamarisk are gone. We can only hope the study shows the beetles as an asset and then hope the treehugger enviro-wackos don't hold up the planting of beetles on the river system. How I wish I could go back in time and hang the SOB's that thought Tamarisk plants were pretty and introduced them to this country. Stats show without the Tamarisk invasion Powell and Mead could still be nearly full even with this drought. I guess I have to take the blame some, I have a good friend who is an indian who told me a couple years ago for $5000 he would do a rain dance and the drought would end! I laughed and continued to put my $5000 on beer to drink at Powell, he's the one laughing now.

Mohavekid
08-09-2004, 08:49 PM
Well I like that lake and wish it had more water..................Why are we growing rice in the desert?
Deb, just as an FYI, we in California are not growing rice in a desert.
I live in Rice country, my house sits in the middle of peach and walnut orchards, there's a rice field less than 1/2 mile away. Most of California's rice crop is grown in the Sacramento valley. Historically, the Sacramento valley is flooded with water in the winter and spring from rain/snow fall. Prior to the dams, most of the Sacramento and San Joaquin valley's were shallow lakes in winter/spring. The dams we have built have modified this cycle.
But for the dams we have built in California, most of the nation and a significant part of the world would go hungry. California grows a tremendous amount of food. According to the Farm Bureau, Fresno County alone produces more agricultural product than any other county in the state, and more than any other whole state.
Yes, farms use a tremendous amount of water. They also produce the vegatables for your salad, the beef for your steak dinner as well as the fruit and milk for your morning cereal.
Here is a sobering thought, No water=no food.

Sherpa
08-10-2004, 09:15 AM
EGGGGSCELLENT-! what he said also comes to mind.. I'm from Chico, and
in Butte county, there's ALOT of rice grown.. I used to work for a rice farm
operation... but, the water for farming is from the sac river mostly..
has nothing to do with utah, powel, or the colorado river................
No water=No food...........
--Sherpa
Deb, just as an FYI, we in California are not growing rice in a desert.
I live in Rice country, my house sits in the middle of peach and walnut orchards, there's a rice field less than 1/2 mile away. Most of California's rice crop is grown in the Sacramento valley. Historically, the Sacramento valley is flooded with water in the winter and spring from rain/snow fall. Prior to the dams, most of the Sacramento and San Joaquin valley's were shallow lakes in winter/spring. The dams we have built have modified this cycle.
But for the dams we have built in California, most of the nation and a significant part of the world would go hungry. California grows a tremendous amount of food. According to the Farm Bureau, Fresno County alone produces more agricultural product than any other county in the state, and more than any other whole state.
Yes, farms use a tremendous amount of water. They also produce the vegatables for your salad, the beef for your steak dinner as well as the fruit and milk for your morning cereal.
Here is a sobering thought, No water=no food.

Mardonzi
08-10-2004, 11:01 AM
As far as the issue of the Lake being drained, I really don't see it happening in my or my kids's lifetime. There is talk right now within the BOR of reducing the flows to minimums to maintain power generation. Due to decreased head pressure on the intake penstocks for the generators, the generating capacity has been reduced and they don't want to lose anymore efficiency than they have to as far as the dam operations are concerned.
Another issue is the pick up penstock for the Navajo Generation Station. If the lake levels decrease beyond a certain point, there is no water to operate the coal fired plant just outside of Page. This will also be a drum to beat for the reduction in outflows from the dam.
The good news is that the Park Service and Aramark are working on getting a couple more ramps operational in the Wahweap area in the next month or so..
No more ramp lines!!!

RiverOtter
08-10-2004, 11:16 AM
as of 7/16, at the dam, the lake was 350' above bottom.
see picture below:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/951HPIM2175-med.JPG
:idea: Huh.... So, Where's the Lock :D

Mardonzi
08-10-2004, 02:39 PM
i just heard on the news they just gave someone 180tho$ to fix the ramp at anlope,before summers end
Actually, the State of AZ gave Antelope Point Holdings a 200k grant for thier ramp, not the public ramp there. They have been blasting all sorts of rock outta there. No definitive date on when it'll be done though

ahhell
08-10-2004, 05:39 PM
from this pic i got today, it looks like Powell is well on its way to dry, last month it didnt look like this ........
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1518slramp84.jpg
stateline ramp
thanks Gramps!!!!!

WaTchTheGelCoat
08-10-2004, 06:47 PM
from this pic i got today, it looks like Powell is well on its way to dry, last month it didnt look like this ........
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1518slramp84.jpg
stateline ramp
thanks Gramps!!!!!
Wasnt that ramp just built? Seems like a waste kinda. :confused: :)

WaTchTheGelCoat
08-10-2004, 06:52 PM
Oooops My bad. :D

77charger
08-10-2004, 07:02 PM
I have to say def not stateline ramp.the end of the ramp was dry but not that dry.I was there last week.Once you get past padre bay the only real difference was the water line(lake looked just as big as it did 5 years ago) but just lower level on the cliffs

Mardonzi
08-10-2004, 09:18 PM
IS THAT what their doing at the marina to the left?
That's what they are doing in that cut through the cliff...

Huckleberry
08-11-2004, 04:13 AM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1518slramp84.jpg
I see a few trailers in this pic. Where did they launch? Or did they launch a few days earlier and are now screwed cuz the water dropped on them?

ahhell
08-11-2004, 05:10 AM
sometimes the ramp is used for parking when wahweap gets full, wish i had a pic of Wahweap...its just around the corner

gramps
08-11-2004, 05:53 AM
don't have any recent pics of Wahweap but the latest word is they are extending the ramps by welding together section of boiler pipe!!!!! I saw a pic of this a couple of weeks ago and hear that so far it is working.
"they did make some of them LONGERRRRR ,GRAMPS would know "
they did last year, they extended them as much as they could at the time, the water is probally down 25 feet at least since then. There is a "new" single lane temporary ramp at Stateline!!!!!!

gramps
08-11-2004, 05:56 AM
here is what the "pipe ramps" look like.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/hwgramps/wwmrpipe84.jpg

Reaper1
08-11-2004, 08:14 AM
So, when I arrive in Lake Powell on Saturday. Will I be able to launch my 28' Magic Cat with an Expedition on Dubs??? We're going to Wawheep. :)

RiverOtter
08-11-2004, 08:18 AM
So, when I arrive in Lake Powell on Saturday. Will I be able to launch my 28' Magic Cat with an Expedition on Dubs??? We're going to Wawheep. :)
What are Dubs???

Debbolas
08-11-2004, 08:27 AM
Carefull there Deb, Tamarisk (sp?) is not a native plant.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I know a lot of California native plants and recognised several of them walking in the canyons....White Sage, Pearly Everlasting and lupin. Which I thought was good. Now that I think about it that makes no sense because I was walking in Arizona or Utah...NOT California (DOH!!) So please disregard my post. :o
Deb, just as an FYI, we in California are not growing rice in a desert.
Silly me, I live in So Cal and it is pretty much a dessert here,(or chapparelll area) Which would be silly to grow rice in, especially when we are in a drought. I don't know, but I doubt, the part of California you live in is a Rice zone. I think of rice growing in a floooded area. (not flooded by irrigation)
As far as no water=no food....
(do we HAVE to grow rice, it just seems like a waste of water that we could use for something else) Think of how much water you need to grow rice verses some other crop.
Maybe it was Australia where they were flooding desert to grow rice........
Less water=no boating
Peace...........Deb
And Bob here is a pic from the top of the Wawheap Ramp :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1271DSC01858-med.JPG

gramps
08-11-2004, 09:46 AM
So, when I arrive in Lake Powell on Saturday. Will I be able to launch my 28' Magic Cat with an Expedition on Dubs??? We're going to Wawheep. :)
I'd make sure that there is someone there that can help out just in case........

Rock-N-Boardin
08-11-2004, 09:54 AM
Maybe good news on the horizon, looks like a Mild El Nino is developing. Could bring some much needed extra rain this Winter to the West. I guess we will see. Here is a link with an article about it.
http://www.stormsurf.com/page2/enso/current.shtml

Reaper1
08-11-2004, 10:09 AM
I'd make sure that there is someone there that can help out just in case........
Thanks Gramps! We should have a PreRunner with 35's if it gets nasty. :boxed:
River Otter - Dubs = 20" Rims. ;)

Mardonzi
08-11-2004, 10:15 AM
So, when I arrive in Lake Powell on Saturday. Will I be able to launch my 28' Magic Cat with an Expedition on Dubs??? We're going to Wawheep. :)
They are launching and retrieving larger boats than yours there. The Park Service has had a contracted vehicle posted at the ramp to help anyone who gets stuck or just doesn't have the horsepower to pull their vehicle up onto the pavement when retrieving. The one thing you want to watch out for though is all the prop wash has created an underwater berm that can catch a prop if you aren't careful. We caught a prop on our 31' Carver a couple of weeks ago pulling it out of the water.

CrazyHippy
08-11-2004, 12:19 PM
Cadillac desert was/is a good read... very eye opening. :idea:
Bad thing about decreased outflows @ powell.... Decreased inflow @ mead :( :( :(
BJH

kritter
08-11-2004, 12:55 PM
So, when I arrive in Lake Powell on Saturday. Will I be able to launch my 28' Magic Cat with an Expedition on Dubs??? We're going to Wawheep. :)
I got you covered Big Grim...I hope the sexpedition has tow hooks!

RiverOtter
08-11-2004, 01:22 PM
Thanks Gramps! We should have a PreRunner with 35's if it gets nasty. :boxed:
River Otter - Dubs = 20" Rims. ;)
Got it. Why would 20" rims make it harder to haul a boat out of the water? :confused:

gramps
08-11-2004, 03:41 PM
maybe it's time to decrease the outflow at Mead also!!!! Maybe shut off the outflow every other day?????
Cadillac desert was/is a good read... very eye opening. :idea:
Bad thing about decreased outflows @ powell.... Decreased inflow @ mead :( :( :(
BJH

77charger
08-11-2004, 04:14 PM
maybe it's time to decrease the outflow at Mead also!!!! Maybe shut off the outflow every other day?????
Water contracts and electricity contract demands will prevent that.My uncle works for the dwp(who funded and ran it)I asked himwhy mohave and havasu are always full said there is a certain amount of water that has to be released to make the power. :confused: Us damn californians

Debbolas
08-11-2004, 06:17 PM
They are launching and retrieving larger boats than yours there. The Park Service has had a contracted vehicle posted at the ramp to help anyone who gets stuck or just doesn't have the horsepower to pull their vehicle up onto the pavement when retrieving. The one thing you want to watch out for though is all the prop wash has created an underwater berm that can catch a prop if you aren't careful. We caught a prop on our 31' Carver a couple of weeks ago pulling it out of the water.
It got our prop, the new and improved River Dave special prop :frown:

Mardonzi
08-12-2004, 05:26 AM
It wouldn't have been so bad, but we run duo-props,, and it took out all 4. Next time I'll be running the boat and my friend can back in the trailer... :mad:

gramps
08-12-2004, 06:09 AM
I saw a news story last night about the ramps at Powell.. The National Park Service claims that they will be pouring concrete all winter long making the ramps longer.
Scream ate another prop???????

Mardonzi
08-12-2004, 07:42 AM
I saw a news story last night about the ramps at Powell.. The National Park Service claims that they will be pouring concrete all winter long making the ramps longer.
Scream ate another prop???????
Thats the way we are hearing it too... They are supposed to start pouring in Nov-Dec

Debbolas
08-12-2004, 07:57 AM
I saw a news story last night about the ramps at Powell.. The National Park Service claims that they will be pouring concrete all winter long making the ramps longer.
Scream ate another prop???????
Didn't get eaten, just scratched up a bit......Not as pretty as it use to be :frown:

gramps
08-12-2004, 08:59 AM
Hey Deb, tell Scream to save the next dinged one for me.............I need a new windmill!