Calling ***boat

[Huckleberry]

There are now at least three threads on the Havasu Marina issues. Is it possible to combine the three of them into one thread for consistency and maybe make it a sticky? This way everything stays in one place and not scattered all over the place.
Anyone else agree?

[Scream]

Honestly, because it deals with a potentially inflamitory subject and has brought out several threats of action as well as tons of innuendo, I don't think you'll get it to be a sticky. But as long as you don't ask for a "Havasu Marina" discussion group added I guess that'll be ok...LOL :) :) :) :)

[Dr. Eagle]

Honestly, because it deals with a potentially inflamitory subject and has brought out several threats of action as well as tons of innuendo, I don't think you'll get it to be a sticky. But as long as you don't ask for a "Havasu Marina" discussion group added I guess that'll be ok...LOL :) :) :) :)
Not to mention it only tells one side... now if you could get psycho to respond......

[Scream]

Not to mention it only tells one side... now if you could get psycho to respond......
Now that would be a thread to save...What a whack..

[Dr. Eagle]

Now that would be a thread to save...What a whack..
Could have true entertainment potential... :idea:

[Essex502]

The Havasu Marina issue is a serious issue to all boaters on this website who travel to Lake Havasu City and I for one agree that it should be sticky. This is an ideal subject for one. The facts are well known and publicized in the havasunews.com site (see August 9, 2004 or search news archives or the link below) and are NOT in dispute. The Marina managment's posting and PUBLIC comment to the reporter that they we going to enforce a STRICKER standard for our boat's noise than the Arizona laws require is serious. As "hot boat" owners we ALL ARE AFFECTED BY THIS ARBITRARY plan to reduce the noise in the Marina. What better topic that affects most of us than this?
As reported: "However, Arizona law still calls for a distance of 50 feet, and Bekkedahl said his staff would measure noise from directly behind a suspicious boat. He said he doesn't have the luxury to measure from 50 feet away with several boats potentially in the same area."
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2004/08/08/news/news02.txt

[Dr. Eagle]

The Havasu Marina issue is a serious issue to all boaters on this website who travel to Lake Havasu City and I for one agree that it should be sticky. This is an ideal subject for one. The facts are well known and publicized in the havasunews.com site (see August 9, 2004 or search news archives or the link below) and are NOT in dispute. The Marina managment's posting and PUBLIC comment to the reporter that they we going to enforce a STRICKER standard for our boat's noise than the Arizona laws require is serious. As "hot boat" owners we ALL ARE AFFECTED BY THIS ARBITRARY plan to reduce the noise in the Marina. What better topic that affects most of us than this?
As reported: "However, Arizona law still calls for a distance of 50 feet, and Bekkedahl said his staff would measure noise from directly behind a suspicious boat. He said he doesn't have the luxury to measure from 50 feet away with several boats potentially in the same area."
http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2004/08/08/news/news02.txt
I agree it is a big issue for the hot boating community, but I have four words of wisdom...
Vote with your feet.
Nothing will get their attention faster than loss of business.

[Huckleberry]

Doc,
i agree with voting with your feet, but this is a unique case. LHM is truly the nicest facility on the lake, and by far the easiest to use for those with larger boats and long rigs. Yes, Windsor is not too bad, but it is a biotch to back in when you have a long tow rig and get UGLY if the winds blow from the north or when a storm rolls in. Site 6 is out of the question.
Not to mention that this guy is basically playing boatcop from his little office on the dock and is arbitrarily setting the rules based upon how he feels on any given day.

[OGShocker]

Not to mention it only tells one side... now if you could get psycho to respond......
Can I respond for Jeff?
On behalf of the Marina I would like to say.
Shut it down! You GD POS! I rule the World you focking fockers!
Thank you for your time. ;)

[Essex502]

Doc,
i agree with voting with your feet, but this is a unique case. LHM is truly the nicest facility on the lake, and by far the easiest to use for those with larger boats and long rigs. Yes, Windsor is not too bad, but it is a biotch to back in when you have a long tow rig and get UGLY if the winds blow from the north or when a storm rolls in. Site 6 is out of the question.
Not to mention that this guy is basically playing boatcop from his little office on the dock and is arbitrarily setting the rules based upon how he feels on any given day.
Totally agree...Windsor is bumpy on any weekend except in the winter. Most of the rental pontoon boats launch from there as well and the rental drivers usually have little experience in the proper operation of what they're floating on. I have been hit by a pontoon boat that did several hundred dollars of damage to my gelcoat and do't want to repeat that. Also, the Marina is great for those wives/girlfriends/friends who are not yet the best at backing the trailer into the water since it is very wide and has a long ramp. It truly is a very nice facility but run by an a$$hole.

[Essex502]

ttt - again

[Havasu Cig]

I wonder how this will effect ***boats testing of boats. I know when they tested my boat the photoshoot was done at the Marina. Windsor does not seem like it be a great facility for testing numerous boats in a compressed time. :confused:

[Essex502]

I don't know but Hot Boat magazine doesn't seem to want to make a sticky out of the Havasu Marina threads....

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I don't know but Hot Boat magazine doesn't seem to want to make a sticky out of the Havasu Marina threads....
maybe the truth will hurt someone.. :idea:

[Ziggy]

Not to mention it only tells one side... now if you could get psycho to respond......
And I'm sure that if he did respond on here, in his true fashion I'd go on a limb and guess it would be all in CAPS. :rolleyes: :D

[Essex502]

ttt - once again

[Essex502]

STILL NOT LOUD ENGOUTH,have you ever seen that little guy(jeff?) go off? its funny :D he looks like he's going to BLOW UP :D
Do you mean ... bulging veins in his forehead-type blowup? Maybe if we all go down there we can get him to self destruct? :)

[JustMVG]

Why not just get some one who passes this idiots sound test and have them tow the known violators, or the guy who know that they are going to trip this guys meter out past where this guy can do any kind of sound test also when was the last time the meter was calibrated, i have not been to this marina, so i am not sure what a dick this guy is, when you pull in to launch, is there anything on paper or posted that says you must be below such and such standard to launch from there and what gives him the right to test the boats for noise anyway?
Mike VG

[Essex502]

Why not just get some one who passes this idiots sound test and have them tow the known violators, or the guy who know that they are going to trip this guys meter out past where this guy can do any kind of sound test also when was the last time the meter was calibrated, i have not been to this marina, so i am not sure what a dick this guy is, when you pull in to launch, is there anything on paper or posted that says you must be below such and such standard to launch from there and what gives him the right to test the boats for noise anyway?
Mike VG
This is what is posted:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1404noise_pic.jpg
The problem is the Marina manager admits in the local Havasu paper that he's gonna' decide on a TIGHTER noise limit than the law states...i.e 86 db-A directly behind the boat - not 50 feet away.

[JustMVG]

So do your run up bfore the marina, designate one of the group to be the tow guy get the boat to a safe distance away from Mgr. Gumby and motor off into the sunset, and if he complains when your coming in to recover and go home so be it, he can't give tickets unles he barney fife with a DB meter or is he just like that, what if the marina catered to sial craft would he deny access to some loud luffing sail? :idea: :yuk: guy sounds like a yutz

[C-2]

To me it’s not a noise issue; rather it’s an issue of right and wrong.
There is no doubt the marina is the best facility on the lake to launch. And it was no accident they obtained their near exclusive lease, and location, to build and operate the marina. They had to agree to a number of conditions, most of which revolved around the providing recreational opportunities for the public. Had they not agreed to these conditions – they wouldn’t have been granted the lease via the Arizona State land Department, thru their parks department. The lease would have eventually been put out to public bid.
Fast forward 40 years and the marina is starting to feel pretty comfortable; after all, they are a private enterprise. Their position is they can choose which laws to enforce (even though they have no legal right, authority or threat of sanction by bona-fide law enforcement agencies), choose which boats they will “allow” on the waterway, and otherwise reserve the right to refuse service to whomever they choose.
THIS IS WHERE THE OPERATORS ARE MISTAKEN.
They are bound by conditions and requirements which are still in effect. If they breach these terms and conditions – they are in default of the lease and the state can choose to terminate, modify or foreclose on the lease. At least that’s our contention, which of course is always subject to legal interpretation by the courts.
After 40 years the marina has lost sight of these facts, and we intend to deliver the wake-up call to them.
Yes there should be a sticky under a newly created and universal thread.

[C-2]

And another thing…..
This issue is the tip of the iceberg for performance boaters. If you are on this board – at some point and time in the near future you will be affected by the decisions MADE BY NON-BOATERS and other special interest groups that could care less about your hobby.
If you are willing to spend booko dollars on your boat (and lifestyle), and don’t really care if soon, you will be told when, where and how you can use your boat, then continue to do nothing.
If on the other hand, you would like to preserve your tax payer rights to continue using your boat – then you need to jump onboard and throw your support behind issues such as this. Sure, the laws will tighten up and add new restrictions – but at what point will they stop?
The Bluewater Network is again gearing up to challenge the PWC races on Havasu – this time stating the Coast Guard has failed to protect the aquatic environment by allowing the races. Nice angle, if they get it front of a judge – who knows what will happen.
And do you really think Bluewater is gonna stop with little PWC’s? If so, then say hi to Santa Claus for me.
What about the prop guards, CO warnings/problems, unknown gas additive issues, emissions, speed, wake erosion, the list goes on. These are all areas subject to attack and regulation by others.
Like the PWC groups, we need to organize and start taking a pro-active approach to these pending issues.
The marina issue is a good start.

[Dr. Eagle]

Totally agree...Windsor is bumpy on any weekend except in the winter. Most of the rental pontoon boats launch from there as well and the rental drivers usually have little experience in the proper operation of what they're floating on. I have been hit by a pontoon boat that did several hundred dollars of damage to my gelcoat and do't want to repeat that. Also, the Marina is great for those wives/girlfriends/friends who are not yet the best at backing the trailer into the water since it is very wide and has a long ramp. It truly is a very nice facility but run by an a$$hole.
Every fight worth fighting has its costs. Then I'd have to say, your options are vote with your feet and perhaps the owners eventually may get the message... or keep going there having the confrontations and bitching about it on the forum, and most likely nothing will change.
If you don't hit them in the wallet, they aren't gonna give a crap what anyone on this board thinks. Just my $.02 :idea:

[JustMVG]

I agree with you C-2 1. is there already an advocacy group by and for boaters such as us, and i use that only to group us as powered craft, HIGH powered craft, & if not how would we go about getting one together, there are alot of boat shows around the so cal area, so if petitions need to be signed i am sure some of us will volunteer time for that, if it's money some of with lower dollar boats will give what we can and the high powered high dollar guys can give what they can , but enough is enouhg, and if it can be proven that the marina has strayed from it's original agreement then lets bring it to the state/states and see if a consortium of people can take ownership and do the right thing and let whoever wants on the lake or river is given that opportunity.

[JustMVG]

but if the marina can convince enough boaters to take our place then they win in the long run, "see now that the riff raff is gone, it's been a much better place"..........

[Essex502]

Every fight worth fighting has its costs. Then I'd have to say, your options are vote with your feet and perhaps the owners eventually may get the message... or keep going there having the confrontations and bitching about it on the forum, and most likely nothing will change.
If you don't hit them in the wallet, they aren't gonna give a crap what anyone on this board thinks. Just my $.02 :idea:
The going elsewhere argument won't hurt the Marina if it is true that the bulk of their revenue comes from slip rental. IF that is true, then their lack of concern for losing the performance boaters launching there and the subsequent incremental revenue increase from those boaters buying gasoline and supplies is indicated in their attitude.

[Essex502]

And another thing…..
This issue is the tip of the iceberg for performance boaters. If you are on this board – at some point and time in the near future you will be affected by the decisions MADE BY NON-BOATERS and other special interest groups that could care less about your hobby.
If you are willing to spend booko dollars on your boat (and lifestyle), and don’t really care if soon, you will be told when, where and how you can use your boat, then continue to do nothing.
If on the other hand, you would like to preserve your tax payer rights to continue using your boat – then you need to jump onboard and throw your support behind issues such as this. Sure, the laws will tighten up and add new restrictions – but at what point will they stop?
The Bluewater Network is again gearing up to challenge the PWC races on Havasu – this time stating the Coast Guard has failed to protect the aquatic environment by allowing the races. Nice angle, if they get it front of a judge – who knows what will happen.
And do you really think Bluewater is gonna stop with little PWC’s? If so, then say hi to Santa Claus for me.
What about the prop guards, CO warnings/problems, unknown gas additive issues, emissions, speed, wake erosion, the list goes on. These are all areas subject to attack and regulation by others.
Like the PWC groups, we need to organize and start taking a pro-active approach to these pending issues.
The marina issue is a good start.
Not to mention the upcoming requirement (inevitable) for catalytic convertors on boats.

[C-2]

And for the record....
Losing their lease to operate - that might hurt their bottom line. Ya think?
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Dr. Eagle]

The going elsewhere argument won't hurt the Marina if it is true that the bulk of their revenue comes from slip rental. IF that is true, then their lack of concern for losing the performance boaters launching there and the subsequent incremental revenue increase from those boaters buying gasoline and supplies is indicated in their attitude.
Well then You're DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED>........ :frown:

[JustMVG]

Worse than losing the lease Michael Mooooer will do a "Mockumentary" on boaters and the noise they make and how it disturbs the rocks and cacti and that Pres. Bush is behind it all and knew about the marina in the first place. we need to video this guy at the marina, edit the video ala Mr. Mooooer and then show one of those kids paddle boats while playing a blown motor at idle in the backround, hey if stuff like that can work for him......

[C-2]

Worse than losing the lease Michael Mooooer will do a "Mockumentary" on boaters and the noise they make and how it disturbs the rocks and cacti and that Pres. Bush is behind it all and knew about the marina in the first place. we need to video this guy at the marina, edit the video ala Mr. Mooooer and then show one of those kids paddle boats while playing a blown motor at idle in the backround, hey if stuff like that can work for him......
:) :jawdrop: :) :jawdrop: :) :)

[Huckleberry]

Still no response from ***boat!?!? I would think that with the Kevin Spaise articles they published on this problem, it would not be a biggie to make this one big topic on the board and make it a sticky!

[Essex502]

Still no response from ***boat!?!? I would think that with the Kevin Spaise articles they published on this problem, it would not be a biggie to make this one big topic on the board and make it a sticky!
I think the "sticky" issue is more for the moderator and not ***boat....you might try PM'ing the moderator for the "Sandbar".