Crack in my foundation

[KACHINA KEN]

SO last night my master bath toilet reservoir seal gave way and dumped about 30 gal of water onto the floor which soaked the carpet which I promptly tore up. When I went into my walk in closet the water had gotten in there too so up came that carpet where I discover a large crack in the foundation. I think it is big enough to worry about so what should I do and are there any time limits for discovery of this kind of thing? I was trying to get in touch with my mortgage people but i havent heard from them yet.

[Jordy]

Who was the home builder? Are any neighbors experiencing the same thing? You're out east right? Lots of those houses were built on what used to be farmland and it's hard to get the correct compaction to build on. Right now, I'd say your options are the homebuilder, the engineering firm that designed all the compaction specs or the inspection company that signed off on the compaction when the subdivision was just at the pad stage.

[Kilrtoy]

So jordy,
How is Suprise or Sun City West

[Jordy]

Surprise is booming. I wouldn't live there though. Sun City West is still for the most part a retirement kind of deal, lots of old people in golf carts. They are building like crazy further west than that though.
Six Flags supposedly just bought property to build a park out there. There is also going to be a mall built that is one of the biggest ones out west, or at least that's the rumor. Something to rival Mall of America.

[Kilrtoy]

What is wrong with surprise,
The parents are thinking of buying out there

[rvrtoy]

How old is your home? There are companies that specialise in slab repairs here in So. Cal so i'm sure there are some in your neck of the woods. Good luck and keep us posted. :mad:

[Jordy]

What is wrong with surprise,
The parents are thinking of buying out there
Just not my cup of tea on the west side. It's getting better than it ever was, and there are some nice areas, but I kind of like to be more in the middle of things. Depending on what you wanted to do, Surprise could be a great spot. It's a little closer to the river, depending on where you are. On the down side of it, you really only have Lake Pleasant close by and everything else is kind of a haul. Lots of new subdivisions that all pretty much look the same. Like I said, just not my cup of tea. :D

[Ziggy]

I'd certainly be checking with the Insurance if the builders warranty is expired...hope it works out for you.

[WUTWZAT]

Here call Danhercules from here on the boards
Saber Concrete & Foundation Leveling
1 (800) 922-2488
He is a great guy to deal with, and I don't think he is the type to do anyone wrong. His name is Dan, he might even buy me a beer for the lead.... :D
His web site since your online www.saberleveling.com
I got this all of the can cozy they gave us from CBBB, see it did pay off.
Jason

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

if it is a raised foundation .. I am prety sure you can get a licenced contractor to repair it or even an earthquake retrofitter.. (sp ck) my mom had hers repaired rescently by a lic. contractor. :smile:

[Jordy]

This is in the valley east of phoenix. We don't have any earthquake retrofitters. :D :D :D
Kind of like we really don't need rain gutters on our houses. They just collect leaves. ;)

[HAULNZ]

Surprise is booming. I wouldn't live there though. Sun City West is still for the most part a retirement kind of deal, lots of old people in golf carts. They are building like crazy further west than that though.
Six Flags supposedly just bought property to build a park out there. There is also going to be a mall built that is one of the biggest ones out west, or at least that's the rumor. Something to rival Mall of America.
Don't take Jordy serious, he is a west side hater. Don't be a hater Jordy ;) :D I use to live at 32nd STREET & Cactus (north phx), but the neighborhood went downhill, so I decided to move to Surprise. We have lived in Surprise for over 6 years, and it has really grown into a nice area to live.
What kind of house are your parents looking for Kilrtoy? We are about to put ours on the market, due to our upcoming move to the Ventura County area of CA.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

This is in the valley east of phoenix. We don't have any earthquake retrofitters. :D :D :D
Kind of like we really don't need rain gutters on our houses. They just collect leaves. ;)
LOL!! sorry.. then how about a lic. contractor.. ;)

[Jordy]

Don't take Jordy serious, he is a west side hater. Don't be a hater Jordy ;) :D I use to live at 32nd STREET & Cactus (north phx), but the neighborhood went downhill, so I decided to move to Surprise. We have lived in Surprise for over 6 years, and it has really grown into a nice area to live.
Did I say anything bad? I just said it wasn't my cup of tea. As far as the 32nd Street and Cactus comment, that's funny. I'll just stay right here in my little pocket of 1/2 acre horse property with no CC&R's lots 10 minutes or so from downtown. :D :D :D

[Kilrtoy]

They want a big house 2500 Plus Sq Ft, dont know why
its just them two

[FunOnTheWater]

Who was the home builder? Are any neighbors experiencing the same thing? You're out east right? Lots of those houses were built on what used to be farmland and it's hard to get the correct compaction to build on. Right now, I'd say your options are the homebuilder, the engineering firm that designed all the compaction specs or the inspection company that signed off on the compaction when the subdivision was just at the pad stage.
Jordy has good advice, you need to know who is the company who did the work if it was recent..Let me know, maybe I can help

[mike37]

OK dont go crazy (large crack) how large is it can you fit a pencil in it
or is it smaller than that

[Jordy]

Jordy has good advice, you need to know who is the company who did the work if it was recent..Let me know, maybe I can help
I have customers who are large subdivision contractors, and used to run a blade for a while building house pads out in some of the stuff they're building houses on. Lets just say when you're cruising along and the whole machine sinks to the frame, I wouldn't want to live on it.
The only way to build houses that are going to survive in that, is to pour the pad over steel cables, let the concrete set up and then come back and tension all the cables. Holds the pad together and essentially makes it like a boat floating on the land it's built on.
Lots of builders learned that lesson after having to demo 40+ houses in Anthem that had the same problem. Imagine coming home after being in your house for a year or so and finding out that you now have a sunken living room. Or a sunken garage. Lets just say some of the ground they're building on is less than ideal. ;)

[HAULNZ]

Did I say anything bad? I just said it wasn't my cup of tea. As far as the 32nd Street and Cactus comment, that's funny. I'll just stay right here in my little pocket of 1/2 acre horse property with no CC&R's lots 10 minutes or so from downtown. :D :D :D
You didn't say anything bad. I was just giving you shit for previous west side slams. :) All in good fun. I grew up in Scottsdale, and there is advantages to both sides of town. As far as the 32nd St comment, I could have walked to your house from my old house. :)

[FunOnTheWater]

I have customers who are large subdivision contractors, and used to run a blade for a while building house pads out in some of the stuff they're building houses on. Lets just say when you're cruising along and the whole machine sinks to the frame, I wouldn't want to live on it.
The only way to build houses that are going to survive in that, is to pour the pad over steel cables, let the concrete set up and then come back and tension all the cables. Holds the pad together and essentially makes it like a boat floating on the land it's built on.
Lots of builders learned that lesson after having to demo 40+ houses in Anthem that had the same problem. Imagine coming home after being in your house for a year or so and finding out that you now have a sunken living room. Or a sunken garage. Lets just say some of the ground they're building on is less than ideal. ;)
Expensive lesson :hammer2: for the builder, lets hope most people use the resources to find the correct resources to have their home fixed :mad:

[Jordy]

Expensive lesson :hammer2: for the builder, lets hope most people use the resources to find the correct resources to have their home fixed :mad:
Actually, the builder usually doesn't lose anything but reputation. It tends to come down to the engineering firm who designed the specs and the company that signed off on the moisture and compaction inspections. After the big deal in Anthem there was a lot of scrambling and ass covering going on. Insurance picks up the tab and then just passes it on to everyone else. :cool:

[ROZ]

Lots of those houses were built on what used to be farmland and it's hard to get the correct compaction to build on.
A lot of the subdivisions out there are built on farm land
:D Especialy east of Tempe :D

[Jordy]

A lot of the subdivisions out there are built on farm land
:D Especialy east of Tempe :D
Roz, big pimpin' the Phoenix geography. I'm impressed. :D

[ROZ]

Imagine coming home after being in your house for a year or so and finding out that you now have a sunken living room. Or a sunken garage.
And to think some people actually pay to have sunken rooms :jawdrop:

[ROZ]

Roz, big pimpin' the Phoenix geography. I'm impressed. :D Dude, I have plenty of relatives out in MEsa, Gilbert, Apache Junction, etc... That and my mom's side of the family was good friends with the Morrisons. You know, the dairy people.. :clover:

[KACHINA KEN]

How old is your home? There are companies that specialise in slab repairs here in So. Cal so i'm sure there are some in your neck of the woods. Good luck and keep us posted. :mad:
This is my first home, its in a place called the Evergreen district on the Tempe Mesa border. It was built in 71'. My main question is if I can prove this crack was here when they laid this cheap carpet 3 years ago that means they knew about it and didnt disclose it.

[KACHINA KEN]

OK dont go crazy (large crack) how large is it can you fit a pencil in it
or is it smaller than that
No Mike, it's about 4 mm. It does go a long way though, under the wall and into the bathroom
I bet if I pull up the carpet in the hall it will be there too.

[Jordy]

This is my first home, its in a place called the Evergreen district on the Tempe Mesa border. It was built in 71'. My main question is if I can prove this crack was here when they laid this cheap carpet 3 years ago that means they knew about it and didnt disclose it.
'71? Sorry, warranty is over. ;)
So what you do now is whip up some JB Weld, patch it up, carpet back over it, sell it and let someone else deal with it. :D
Chances are that crack has been there for along time, that is, if you haven't noticed any changes in the floor, like that you could feel, which is obviously a no, or seen any new cracks in your walls. All the settling should be done with that house (done like 25 years ago). I'm going to guess it was there when you bought the place. The problem is, with most home inspections, they just look for the very obvious. I've never heard of them pulling back carpet and inspecting the slab for cracks.
Good luck with it though.

[KACHINA KEN]

Dude, I have plenty of relatives out in MEsa, Gilbert, Apache Junction, etc... That and my mom's side of the family was good friends with the Morrisons. You know, the dairy people.. :clover:
I'm gonna tell your Mom's you like to take pictures of yourself while on the crapper.

[ROZ]

I'm gonna tell your Mom's you like to take pictures of yourself while on the crapper. You must be thinking of Mandelon :D

[phebus]

If everyone replying to this thread pulled up their carpet, I bet they would find cracks in their slab also. If it isn't wide, or the floor hasn't settled uneven, patch it and lay new carpet. Probably no big deal.

[hava life]

Use epoxy on the crack. Make sure there is no dust or debris in it. If the crack is more then a 1/4" horizontal or vertical displacement you will need help. you can grind a V groove in the crack so the epoxy will hold better, then grind the over pour. If you have walls or doors that are needing adjustment often you have a big problem. Don't worry about the small stuff concrete is going to crack, it depends on how much and how big. There is probably no control joints in the slab so you will have hairline cracks.

[ROZ]

you can grind a V groove in the crack so the epoxy will hold better, then grind the over pou
That be the Cutting Edge diamond tool crack chaser , right slick? :cool:

[KACHINA KEN]

Use epoxy on the crack. Make sure there is no dust or debris in it. If the crack is more then a 1/4" horizontal or vertical displacement you will need help. you can grind a V groove in the crack so the epoxy will hold better, then grind the over pour. If you have walls or doors that are needing adjustment often you have a big problem. Don't worry about the small stuff concrete is going to crack, it depends on how much and how big. There is probably no control joints in the slab so you will have hairline cracks.
Thanks for the tip, I am still going to speak with the mortgage Co and find out if they can make the previous owner foot the bill though. It was concealed damage be it intentional or not....

[KACHINA KEN]

If everyone replying to this thread pulled up their carpet, I bet they would find cracks in their slab also. If it isn't wide, or the floor hasn't settled uneven, patch it and lay new carpet. Probably no big deal.
That was the plan anyhow to be honest, tile the whole house except the bedrooms, they get wood.

[Drunk tank]

No Mike, it's about 4 mm. It does go a long way though, under the wall and into the bathroom
I bet if I pull up the carpet in the hall it will be there too.
Thats nothing I'd be worried about in a house slab... less youre built on a dirt outcropping (potential for landslide) or in a siesmic area. fill it up with a little quickcrete and call it good. If you ever really go look at concrete briges sometime... theres cracks bigger than that in alot of them.

[Drunk tank]

I have customers who are large subdivision contractors, and used to run a blade for a while building house pads out in some of the stuff they're building houses on. Lets just say when you're cruising along and the whole machine sinks to the frame, I wouldn't want to live on it.
The only way to build houses that are going to survive in that, is to pour the pad over steel cables, let the concrete set up and then come back and tension all the cables. Holds the pad together and essentially makes it like a boat floating on the land it's built on.
Lots of builders learned that lesson after having to demo 40+ houses in Anthem that had the same problem. Imagine coming home after being in your house for a year or so and finding out that you now have a sunken living room. Or a sunken garage. Lets just say some of the ground they're building on is less than ideal. ;)
wow... a post-tentioned slabe for a damn house??? Thatll cost a pretty penny! Figure just good ol' reinforced concrete would be more than enough for any soft soil with poor compaction....but fawk...almost swalled a freakin earth mover??? Were they building on a damn swamp or what???? You know what type of soils were out there?

[hava life]

That be the Cutting Edge diamond tool crack chaser , right slick?
don't know about that tool that chases cracks :confused: usually it's the person with the tool chasing the cracks, SLICK
if I can prove this crack was here when they laid this cheap carpet 3 years ago that means they knew about it and didnt disclose it.
The homeowner will more then likely say they knew nothing about it. How many times have you had carpet installed and watched them install it, most people are not at the house and would not see the crack.

[Ivan Dan]

Thanks for the tip, I am still going to speak with the mortgage Co and find out if they can make the previous owner foot the bill though. It was concealed damage be it intentional or not....
Mortgage Co. doesn't have anything to do with it. You really need to contact your real estate agent and have them call the listing agent of the property to ask some questions. How long have you owned the property? Was the new carpet installed just before you bought it? If this is the case then you need to contact the carpet installation company and see if the installers remember it and if they noted it to the sellers or not.
Jordy is right home inspectors do not do destructive sampling in other words they don't open up drywall walls or pull up carpet. Chances are you can't do anything about it except fill in the crack and move on with your life. It definitely doesn't hurt to make a few phone calls and see if the owner knew about it and hid it. If so, then you have a case to sue them for the necessary repairs.
My parents put new carpet in their home in Placentia, CA and while the carpet was out they found cracks all through the foundation. My mom freaked out so I got her in touch with a guy that does slab repair and he told her that EVERY single home in California has some cracks and there is nothing anyone can do about that. I know I know...you're not in CA but just giving an example.

[Drunk tank]

I dont care where you live... I've never seen a single foundation with zero cracks... theres always litlee hairline cracks.... they just sometimes like to get a wee bit bigger than you would like :D

[framer1]

The crack is probably no big deal as long as it doesn't raise up. The steel should hold it in place. The minute you call anyone to fix it or voice your concern over it, I would think that would make you reponsible for disclosing it when you sell the house. I think I would patch it and move on if you feel it lifting up through the carpet than I would definitely fix it. Three things about concrete I will guantee(sp) it will crack it's heavy and it will dry.

[haulina29]

Foundations crack unless its raised up over 1/8 or so dont worry about it,its normal and the previous owner doesnt have to disclose slab cracks they are non structural if the footing had issues then that would be a different story just cover it back up and forget you saw it .

[PHX ATC]

It's probably been there since 1971. If it's only 4mm, then it's not a problem, especially in Tempe, where the homes have been around since, say, dirt. :p
Do you have walls that are cracked badly? Ceilings that have cracked? If not, there's nothing to worry about.
Cracks are normal in concrete and foundations. Foundations that move (ask me, I know) are wrong and then we have a problem. You'd be very hard pressed to prove the last homeowners knew about it at all.
All good advice here spoken before me. Let us know how it turns out.

[1stepcloser]

I recently had the carpet replaced in my house, I removed it myself prior to installation. I found several hairline cracks, and one rather large crack around 1/8 to 3/16" running through the dining room, hallway and one bedroom.
I went to Home Depot, got a tube of concrete sealer and filled it. I'm not worried about it, as other's have said here, all concrete will crack.

[MagicMtnDan]

Based on the title of the thread and all the talk about crack and carpets I thought for sure we'd see some...
http://www.teamtoilet.com/crap/crack.jpg
Here's the crack of Dawn :D
http://www.98online.com/photos/Bahamas/The%20Crack%20of%20Dawn.jpg
Apparently we can't show carpet here :D

[KACHINA KEN]

Mortgage Co. doesn't have anything to do with it. You really need to contact your real estate agent and have them call the listing agent of the property to ask some questions. How long have you owned the property? Was the new carpet installed just before you bought it? If this is the case then you need to contact the carpet installation company and see if the installers remember it and if they noted it to the sellers or not.
Jordy is right home inspectors do not do destructive sampling in other words they don't open up drywall walls or pull up carpet. Chances are you can't do anything about it except fill in the crack and move on with your life. It definitely doesn't hurt to make a few phone calls and see if the owner knew about it and hid it. If so, then you have a case to sue them for the necessary repairs.
My parents put new carpet in their home in Placentia, CA and while the carpet was out they found cracks all through the foundation. My mom freaked out so I got her in touch with a guy that does slab repair and he told her that EVERY single home in California has some cracks and there is nothing anyone can do about that. I know I know...you're not in CA but just giving an example.
I know all this man, what is really pissing me off is the lack of disclosure, the carpet is new and I dont know how they could have not known about it. And I will have to disclose this when I sell it because I am not a piece of crap person. So yes it is probably a small fix, but needless to say a fix I don't want to pay for,

[hava life]

go to whitecapdirect.com You can get the epoxy you need to fix the crack. It will be under the catalog tab, look under epoxy tie systems. if you want call the 800 #. I don't think you would have to disclose this unless the crack is structural. Take a look at any patio, sidewalk or gutter. They all have cracks. concrete will always crack. If it goes through the footing that could be a problem, take a look at the outside of the house at the footing and see if the crack shows.

[1978 Rogers]

That's what home owners insurance is for.

[ROZ]

don't know about that tool that chases cracks :confused: usually it's the person with the tool chasing the cracks, SLICK
Don't get all in a huff, dude. Let me rephrase. SLICK, is a board member who is with Cutting Edge Diamond Tool in Arizona( he does ship nation wide though). "Right SLICK ?" was an invitation to add him into the discussion. If Kenny wants to tackle the repair himself, he'll need to buy a crack chaseing blade for a die grinder or other circular type saw. He could rent the gear, but these products are items that can be used again. So why not buy them for a few buck more than renting?
Notice that the last 3/8in of the blade form a V
http://www.multiquip.com/diamondbackblades/images/elements/263_1_981412779.jpg
I don't know or converse with you, so why would I call you Slick? :confused: I was mearly adding to what you wrote, not calling you a name...

[ROZ]

I know of someone who had a major crack repaired. They(contractor) cut a 2ft wider and about 1ft longer section of the slab where the crack was and removed all of the inner cement. They added and compacted soil. They then drilled pilot holes along the inside height of foundation where they later epoxied rebar into on each side which were later tacked together. It was then inspected by the county supervisors office. After that the retrofitted hole was filled with cement. I think it was inspected once again before they installed new carpet. It has been years since this was done, and I don't think they've had a problem since. Time will tell.
That was a sever case, though...

[Ziggy]

I know of someone who had a major crack repaired. They(contractor) cut a 2ft wider and about 1ft longer section of the slab where the crack was and removed all of the inner cement. They added and compacted soil. They then drilled pilot holes along the inside height of foundation where they later epoxied rebar into on each side which were later tacked together. It was then inspected by the county supervisors office. After that the retrofitted hole was filled with cement. I think it was inspected once again before they installed new carpet. It has been years since this was done, and I don't think they've had a problem since. Time will tell.
That was a sever case, though...
A major problem with these type of repairs is making sure you have a good and secure moisture barrier beneath the slab. Originally its a large sheet of visqueen(sp?) so once you cut open and cut through the barrier its hard to seal it properly for longevity.

[PHX ATC]

Ain't nutting sealed from moisture out here in the valley of the sun. Nothing. The soil (at least where I live) is "moderately expansive." More like "aggresively expansive beyond any realm of engineering expertise" would be more like it. :mad: Then again, I've only been in my house for 7 years and it's only that many years old too, not built since 1971. I would think it's more a problem out here where I live than where my man Kachina Ken lives.
I've had destructive (that's right, rip out the drywall and dig 4 feet down the side of the house and pry out some stucco) done on my house and the results were appalling! :eek: Horrible construction defects and stupidity, leaking water inside the walls due to piss poor construction techniques or lack thereof. Can you say cheapest labor with no brains available?
Whatever, it's being fixed at a might pretty penny right now, so I guess I go on with my life. Disappointed in the builder, you bet. BTW, homeowner's insurance was purposely left out of the loop as I didn't want my rates to go jacked up beyond belief or not be insured ever again. Hmmmmm, the decisions we make in life.
Edit: Arizona Republic article (I live in Boulder Creek subdivion in Mesa)
AZ Republic Article (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0826defects26.html)

[ROZ]

Ain't nutting sealed from moisture out here in the valley of the sun. Nothing. The soil (at least where I live) is "moderately expansive." More like "aggresively expansive beyond any realm of engineering expertise" would be more like it. :mad: Then again, I've only been in my house for 7 years and it's only that many years old too, not built since 1971. I would think it's more a problem out here where I live than where my man Kachina Ken lives.
I've had destructive (that's right, rip out the drywall and dig 4 feet down the side of the house and pry out some stucco) done on my house and the results were appalling! :eek: Horrible construction defects and stupidity, leaking water inside the walls due to piss poor construction techniques or lack thereof. Can you say cheapest labor with no brains available?
Whatever, it's being fixed at a might pretty penny right now, so I guess I go on with my life. Disappointed in the builder, you bet. BTW, homeowner's insurance was purposely left out of the loop as I didn't want my rates to go jacked up beyond belief or not be insured ever again. Hmmmmm, the decisions we make in life.
Edit: Arizona Republic article (I live in Boulder Creek subdivion in Mesa)
AZ Republic Article (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0826defects26.html)
Sounds like the perfect spot to have a double wide installed. All ya have ta do is make adjustments every few years to make it level :D

[OC-PARTYCAT]

ice cream melts and concrete cracks.. I would take the advise of hava life and get some epoxy in there. Go to home depot and get some Hilti hy150 or Simpson "set22" (not et22) and fill in the crack. If you dont notice any cracks in your drywall and the floor isnt lifting. Also check outside for any sprinklers that are saturating the soil against the house. This would definetely be a problem if the soil is expansive.
Hey Drunk Tank..did you know that 90% of the homes in San Clemente are post tension design? Post tension is actually cheeper than a mild steel design. the slabs are thinner, the footings are smaller and there is almost no rebar.

[PHX ATC]

Sounds like the perfect spot to have a double wide installed. All ya have ta do is make adjustments every few years to make it level :D
Maybe I'll demolish this house, replace it with the double wide (with 2 carports) with all that money from the UPS boys scratching up my rosewood Bulgarian deluxe special hardwood flooring on my front dealieabop they jacked up and ruined. I'm thinking 1.5 million now...you know, to cover the move and all. :D Man, I'll have a helluva place to park the boat now! ;)

[mike37]

KACHINA KEN
You need to mellow out 3/16 crack is no big deal no
And the disclosure thing if it was deemed to be no problem then there would be no disclosure
Your slab is not you foundation it’s a small part of your structural its more like a hard surface
That holds your foundation together and for you to walk on
Rule 1 concrete gets hard
Rule 2 concrete cracks
Be for you go off all pist have some one qualified come over and look at it

[Mandelon]

Take the advice of the calm and collected comments made above.
I've fixed a bunch of these issues over the years, some major and some minor. If there is no "Vertical Offset" you should not be too worried. I have all the equipment and have never had a callback on our fixes.
If you can't get a quarter in it, its probably normal. You could fill it to keep any moisture from coming up so easily. Keep the grading around the outside of the house positive, so that water does not pond or puddle near the foundation. You want to keep your rain gutters and flat work working properly to move water away from the base of the structure.
The crack itself, well it could be injected with epoxy using tubes of two part epoxy, a fancy air pressured double caulking gun, and a bunch of plastic injection ports, It could be "V"d out and a thicker paste type epoxy gravity fed into it, or it could be cut out wider, rebar doweled in and new concrete repoured, or you could add sutures across the crack if you think it might be spreading.....There are a few methods, none of them all that difficult.
Also the old owner will deny knowing about it, and you likely won't be able to prove that he did. Ask the neighbors if the sellers ever talked about it.
Take a pic and post it, but it doesn't sound like a big deal......
The folks at WhiteCap are pretty helpful, and sell most of that stuff.
PM me if you have specific questions.