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View Full Version : GOOD NEWS: Round One - Havasu Marina



LakeRacer
09-09-2004, 07:35 PM
Ok, round one is over and it appears that we have won it. :) The State Land Dept. has acknowledged that the marina "is without authority to restrict public use, without good cause, of the marina to launch water craft." The Dept. is suppose to notify the marina about the requirements of the contract....
To the people who took five minutes out their time to write letters so that ALL BOATERS should be able to launch, thank you very much.
I said should be able to launch. Why? I'm expecting the marina to fight back. Hopefully this past weekend is an indication of better things to come so that we don't have to go the full ten rounds. WE CAN WIN THIS PEOPLE! DON'T GIVE UP!
We have more work to do. I hope that those of you who wrote letters and have called me to offer help will keep backing me up. We're going to need it.
It isn't too late to keep writing letters. Let's keep the pressure up.
State Land Department - Arizona
Public Records, Operations Div.
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007

Havasu Hangin'
09-09-2004, 07:42 PM
Great news! You mean they won't treat me like a criminal because they don't like how my boat looks?
Hopefully this past weekend is an indication of better things to come so that we don't have to go the full ten rounds.
Was there something different this past weekend?

Mrs.Racer277
09-09-2004, 07:49 PM
Good work. Can you tell me where the sample letter is? I will be more than happy to help out and send one.

throwerb
09-09-2004, 07:53 PM
Good work. Can you tell me where the sample letter is? I will be more than happy to help out and send one.
Count me in.

LakeRacer
09-09-2004, 07:54 PM
Good work. Can you tell me where the sample letter is? I will be more than happy to help out and send one.
No sample letter needed. Just use your own words and let the State Land Dept know that you are concerned about how the marina is denying boaters the use of the launch ramp.

uncle larry
09-09-2004, 08:02 PM
State Land Department - Arizona
Public Records, Operations Div.
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Remember - thought out letters are better than those that rant and rave...

playdeep
09-09-2004, 08:05 PM
Great news! You mean they won't treat me like a criminal because they don't like how my boat looks?
Was there something different this past weekend?
...they seemed to be at ease with the big loud stuff,using they're launch ramps.

LakeRacer
09-09-2004, 08:10 PM
State Land Department - Arizona
Public Records, Operations Div.
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Remember - thought out letters are better than those that rant and rave...
Thanks for posting the address.

OGShocker
09-09-2004, 09:01 PM
That is GREAT NEWS!!!! Good job everyone! :clover: :clover: :clover:

BajaMike
09-09-2004, 09:07 PM
Great news!!!
:D

cigarette1
09-09-2004, 09:45 PM
Thanks Art for all your diligence and persistance
Gary

charlyox
09-10-2004, 04:27 AM
I am sending a letter now!

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 06:37 AM
Thanks Art for all your diligence and persistance
Gary
Hijacking my own thread! :cool: Cig 1...how's things going? How's the new boat working out? Gotta head to big blue and run with you guys sometime. Take care.

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 06:40 AM
That is GREAT NEWS!!!! Good job everyone! :clover: :clover: :clover:
It is great news but I'm not going to sit back just yet. I'll be relieved when I know for sure that the marina is letting "all boaters" launch without any hassles.

Tahoe Tunnel Vision
09-10-2004, 07:47 AM
We are coming down the end of the month for a week. Are they now allowing boats longer than 30 ft to launch? :confused: Has anyone launched over 36 ft this last weekend?
Thanks

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 07:54 AM
We are coming down the end of the month for a week. Are they now allowing boats longer than 30 ft to launch? :confused: Has anyone launched over 36 ft this last weekend?
Thanks
The marina's website says up to 32ft. I don't know if any larger boats launched.
I'm going to write another letter to the State Land Dept. and ask them what has been done to correct this situation and what the marina's response was.

Havasu Cig
09-10-2004, 08:04 AM
Great job Art...
Maybe I will have to tow the boat out and see what happens. Everybody that has not written to the state should. I received a letter from the state as well, so it seems we are working in the right direction.

RiverDave
09-10-2004, 08:05 AM
Lake Racer, it might be a good idea to post the address in the 1st post so that people can see it at just a glance.
RD

Huckleberry
09-10-2004, 08:07 AM
I'm probably heading down next weekend. Need a guinea pig?
Haven't got my letter back from the state yet, though. Maybe today.

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 08:41 AM
I'm probably heading down next weekend. Need a guinea pig?
Haven't got my letter back from the state yet, though. Maybe today.
I plan on being there too. Let's hook up and we can go to the marina together!

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 08:43 AM
Lake Racer, it might be a good idea to post the address in the 1st post so that people can see it at just a glance.
RD
Will do RD.

Tab
09-10-2004, 09:44 AM
Art, Does this ruling include any reference to the marina also not having the authority to deny or terminate slip contracts without good cause????????? Tab

LakeRacer
09-10-2004, 01:58 PM
Art, Does this ruling include any reference to the marina also not having the authority to deny or terminate slip contracts without good cause????????? Tab
I'm looking into it. Might have to get an outside opinion on this one. I can always ask the Land Dept. too.

Tab
09-10-2004, 04:07 PM
Huffpower, I also know a couple from Brea, Ca that had two slips taken away earlier this year for no good reason(unless you call Jeff watching the normal starting of a Daytona with twin silent choice equiped 496ho's a good reason) by the infamous Jeff. They had been there 5+ years. I wonder, if this ruling applies to slips, if they can force Jeff to give them back? Tab

shadow
09-11-2004, 10:09 AM
We will going on the lake tomarrow.does this mean the boycot is still on? or should we use the marina and see what the treatment is? we've been using windsor so far and will continue untill this marina deal is settled.

C-2
09-11-2004, 10:03 PM
Use the marina. See if they stop you at the gate since you are a 28' (and they probably will think you are over 30').
Please post your results - good, bad or indifferent. The more results and experinces, the better.
Use a cool head if they do stop you ;)

DansBlown73Nordic
09-12-2004, 02:48 AM
Whats the deal? Is this a state owned Marina? Do they pick and choose who can launch a boat? :confused: What the hell is NEXT?

Essex502
09-12-2004, 04:08 PM
It is a privately owned business on leased State owned land. THe Lake Havasu Marina has a 50 year contract with the State of Arizona to operate the marina under contract.
I too received my letter from the State of Arizona acknowledging my letter to them.
There was an incident this weekend with a boater from the boards but I'll let him tell the story...

shadow
09-12-2004, 04:29 PM
Use the marina. See if they stop you at the gate since you are a 28' (and they probably will think you are over 30').
Please post your results - good, bad or indifferent. The more results and experinces, the better.
Use a cool head if they do stop you ;)
Ok heres my experience today.came in no questions asked paid our $10 and launched. While waiting at the courtesy dock to pick up my wife from parking the trailer i noticed the guy walking around with a hand held meter and checking noise levels talking to a few boats clearly louder than ours.what blows me away is who the hell do these $5 buck an hour guys think they are checking noise levels?If you ask me I'd tell them to pound sand if they don't have a badge.espiacilaly after the boats are already in the water.Now we don't have engine noise but we got stereo noise so I was checking them on the way in full blast and subs turned up.Just checking ya know.Nobody said anything.overall good experience at the marina today.(beautiful day on the lake).

Three Days Only
09-13-2004, 09:47 AM
Now we don't have engine noise but we got stereo noise so I was checking them on the way in full blast
Your stereo is louder then Bling's boat. If they didnt bitch at you, were good for now, at least until Jeff finds another reason to be a dick!!

Krumbsnatcher
09-13-2004, 09:48 AM
Should us blown just under 30 still launch at Windsor so not to give these guys any amo against the cause?
Will be comming back to havasu next week, this week is the sands sport show at OC fair grounds.

Havasu_Dreamin
09-13-2004, 10:20 AM
i noticed the guy walking around with a hand held meter and checking noise levels talking to a few boats clearly louder than ours.
This is what I find to be the most absurd thing about this. To adequately test for noise levels in that facility you would need to have all other boats that are running shut off and then remove the block walls on both sides as they will reverberate the sound. Given this, how can anyone, even trained and badged LE, say that one particular boat is over the 86 db at 50 foot AZ law when there are other sounds contributing to the db reading?

FastTimmy
09-13-2004, 12:59 PM
This is what I find to be the most absurd thing about this. To adequately test for noise levels in that facility you would need to have all other boats that are running shut off and then remove the block walls on both sides as they will reverberate the sound. Given this, how can anyone, even trained and badged LE, say that one particular boat is over the 86 db at 50 foot AZ law when there are other sounds contributing to the db reading?
That is the real problem for them..

Catatonic
09-14-2004, 02:14 PM
Sent my letter.

LakeRacer
09-14-2004, 02:30 PM
Sent my letter.
Please pm me a copy for my records.
Thanks.

LakeRacer
09-15-2004, 08:38 PM
Some of you have asked about a sample letter to send to the land dept. I don't have one. And I wouldn't want anyone to use one either. Please write the letters in your own words. Well thought out letters will have more impact. Anyone can write a letter expressing concern about the marina's policies.
Some points to consider concerning the marina:
Their enforcement of noise limitations that are higher than state law
Their enforcement of length limitations
Their management staff being confrontational
Their arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of these policies
These things have all been voiced on these threads before. Re-read some of these threads. Write your letters or it will only get worse.

Debbolas
09-17-2004, 09:37 PM
I sent my letter and recieved one back. Keep it simple, reference the marina and your problem with them.
:cool:

3:30dirty
09-21-2004, 04:47 PM
I Got A Ticket In Parker Afeter Blowing By A Sheriff At 90mph..oops. Gave Me A Ticket For Noise. 101 On The Meter At About 25 Ft Away. The Kicker Is He Made Me Go By Him At 4000 Rpms. What Gives? Then The Bastard Writes Me For No Flame Arrestor Even Though It Is A Dooley Scoop Turned Backwards. He Told Me The People That Own Houses On The Strip Are Tired Of The Noise. You Know What...........move Stupid. I Can Fall Asleep To The Sound Of A Blown Flatty Goin By At 2am. Its The River. Whats Next, Noise Tickets At The Dunes. Ps- A Blown 468 With Lightning Headers At 4000rpms Is 100db.

PHX ATC
09-21-2004, 05:22 PM
Fire that pig off in Gilbert and let them move out!!! :eek: :D

Essex502
09-22-2004, 06:11 AM
I Got A Ticket In Parker Afeter Blowing By A Sheriff At 90mph..oops. Gave Me A Ticket For Noise. 101 On The Meter At About 25 Ft Away. The Kicker Is He Made Me Go By Him At 4000 Rpms. What Gives? Then The Bastard Writes Me For No Flame Arrestor Even Though It Is A Dooley Scoop Turned Backwards. He Told Me The People That Own Houses On The Strip Are Tired Of The Noise. You Know What...........move Stupid. I Can Fall Asleep To The Sound Of A Blown Flatty Goin By At 2am. Its The River. Whats Next, Noise Tickets At The Dunes. Ps- A Blown 468 With Lightning Headers At 4000rpms Is 100db.
The Arizona State law for boat noise is 86 dB(A) at 50' at ANY THROTTLE OPENING. Most assume this is only at idle but it isn't. California has a similar 50' shoreline test as well.

LakeRacer
09-22-2004, 06:28 AM
The Arizona State law for boat noise is 86 dB(A) at 50' at ANY THROTTLE OPENING. Most assume this is only at idle but it isn't. California has a similar 50' shoreline test as well.
Straight from the Arizona Boating Guide:
MUFFLERS
◆ All vessel engines must be equipped with an efficient
muffler, underwater exhaust or other effective muffling
device that prevents excessive or unusual noise.
◆ It is illegal to operate a vessel that produces a sound level
exceeding 86 decibels on the “A” weighted scale as
measured from a distance of 50 feet or more from the
vessel, unless a special permit has been obtained.

LakeRacer
09-22-2004, 06:37 AM
I Got A Ticket In Parker Afeter Blowing By A Sheriff At 90mph..oops. Gave Me A Ticket For Noise. 101 On The Meter At About 25 Ft Away. The Kicker Is He Made Me Go By Him At 4000 Rpms. What Gives? Then The Bastard Writes Me For No Flame Arrestor Even Though It Is A Dooley Scoop Turned Backwards. He Told Me The People That Own Houses On The Strip Are Tired Of The Noise. You Know What...........move Stupid. I Can Fall Asleep To The Sound Of A Blown Flatty Goin By At 2am. Its The River. Whats Next, Noise Tickets At The Dunes. Ps- A Blown 468 With Lightning Headers At 4000rpms Is 100db.
Boat Cop can correct me if I'm wrong but your dooley scoop turned backwards isn't good enough:
Straight from Arizona Boating Guide
BACKFIRE FLAME ARRESTORS
◆ All powerboats (except outboards) fueled with gasoline,
must have a U.S. Coast Guard approved (or comply
with SAE J-1928 or UL 1111 standards) backfire flame
arrestor on each carburetor.
◆ Backfire flame arrestors must be in good and serviceable
condition. Periodically clean the flame arrestor and check
for damage. The elements must be clean and the grids
must be tight enough to prevent flames passing through.
Automotive type air cleaners are not adequate for marine
use and are not permitted.

Havasu Hangin'
09-25-2004, 06:11 PM
My letters are in the mail today (I sent 9 of them for good measure).
PM me if you want a peek at the content.

rrrr
09-29-2004, 10:57 AM
I Got A Ticket In Parker Afeter Blowing By A Sheriff At 90mph..oops. Gave Me A Ticket For Noise. 101 On The Meter At About 25 Ft Away. The Kicker Is He Made Me Go By Him At 4000 Rpms. What Gives? Then The Bastard Writes Me For No Flame Arrestor Even Though It Is A Dooley Scoop Turned Backwards. He Told Me The People That Own Houses On The Strip Are Tired Of The Noise. You Know What...........move Stupid. I Can Fall Asleep To The Sound Of A Blown Flatty Goin By At 2am. Its The River. Whats Next, Noise Tickets At The Dunes. Ps- A Blown 468 With Lightning Headers At 4000rpms Is 100db.
Did Anyone Notice That 3:30 Dirty Capitalizes Every Word Like SuckassHarry? I Smell A Rat. How About An IP Check RexOne?
:D :D

beer hunter
09-29-2004, 11:09 AM
Did Anyone Notice That 3:30 Dirty Capitalizes Every Word Like SuckassHarry? I Smell A Rat. How About An IP Check RexOne?
:D :D
Let the judging begin :argue:
I Got A Ticket In Parker Afeter Blowing By A Sheriff At 90mph..oops. Gave Me A Ticket For Noise. 101 On The Meter At About 25 Ft Away. The Kicker Is He Made Me Go By Him At 4000 Rpms. What Gives? Then The Bastard Writes Me For No Flame Arrestor Even Though It Is A Dooley Scoop Turned Backwards. He Told Me The People That Own Houses On The Strip Are Tired Of The Noise. You Know What...........move Stupid. I Can Fall Asleep To The Sound Of A Blown Flatty Goin By At 2am. Its The River. Whats Next, Noise Tickets At The Dunes. Ps- A Blown 468 With Lightning Headers At 4000rpms Is 100db.
I Have Never Heard A Bunch Of Sissies And Complainers Geez Who Gives A Crap About The Marina Its Lease Or Anything Else No One Cares Go Launch Somewhere Else And Avoid The Hassle All Together. Dont Come In Whining And Complaing About The Marina They Dont Care And Neither Should You. Go Launch Somewhere Where Its Quiet And There Arent A Bunch Of Yahoos Like You Morons In Here That Whine
One more.....
Lets Look At It At Another Turn Assuming That The Marina Doesnt Want Any More Liability From The Guys With The Big Noisy Boats Typically They Are The Ones That Cause The Most Trouble So Lets All Chip In And Buy A Piece Of Property And Create Our Own Launch Ramp? With Our Own Rules And All The Yahoos Can Launch There Whenever They Want Hey Want What A Novel Idea What Would It Cost 20k I Dont Launch In Havaus At All I Pull Right Up To The Beach In My Pimp Ass 350 And Poke My Carrera Right In The Water And No One Says Anything

That Guy
09-29-2004, 04:02 PM
Did Anyone Notice That 3:30 Dirty Capitalizes Every Word Like SuckassHarry? I Smell A Rat. How About An IP Check RexOne?
:D :D
Multiple personalties....haulasshenry, 3:30 Dirty, margaritaman, etc...and the beat goes on.

Boatcop
09-29-2004, 05:29 PM
I wonder if he has the cojones to come out and say when that ticket was issued. We DO NOT make boaters run a second time, after we've already got a level on them. That would be like the radar cop telling you to blow by him again to make sure you were really speeding.
As far as the scoop turned around, (What the hell is a "Dooley" scoop?) that would be legal if were of metal construction, since any flame would be directed away from the boat's occupants. If it was fiberglass or plastic, then yes, it's a violation of backfire flame prevention laws.
Now maybe Game and Fish could have made him do a second run, but not the SO. I call bullshit on this one.
101db at 25 feet equals 98db at 50 feet. That's 12db over the limit. So quit your whining and buy some decent mufflers. People shouldn't have to move to get away from people like you who violate the law.

Rexone
09-29-2004, 05:36 PM
Dooley scoops are a brand name Alan... aluminum.
multi personality disorder is being looked into... :notam:

Craig
09-29-2004, 07:34 PM
Alan, Dooley is just a manufactuer of boat products, oil pans scoops etc. This is one on the carb of my old jetboat.
http://www.justanothertoy.com/photogallery/Kachina/kachinaEND.jpg
I got pulled over several yeras ago and told that even though I had a flame arrestor in the scoop it was still illegal?

Boatcop
09-29-2004, 08:52 PM
I got pulled over several yeras ago and told that even though I had a flame arrestor in the scoop it was still illegal?
It isn't, as it's set up in the picture, with the proper flame arrestor.
I can't speak for all Boating Enforcement Officers. Just me, and the ones who work for me.
I can honestly say that no one working the Colorado River (or too many other places in the Country) has as much experience in this field, or a complete understanding of state and Federal boating law as I do. That comes from a combined 29 years in Coast Guard and State (County) Marine Enforcement.
As a matter of fact, most who work the River and/or Lakes, do it as a collateral duty. ie. they get to run the boat a few weekends a year, or just on big weekends.
Even though my crew and I are assigned to Boating Enforcement as a primnary duty, we do have newbies from time to time who are out there without a total and complete understanding of the laws and regulations. If I see mistakes like that happening, I try to correct them pronto, until I can get them into the formal training, that's impossible to conduct during the boating season.
So what you might be told on the water, by a guy or gal in shorts with a badge and gun, may not be fact. Especially when that person might only get on the water a few times a year, and last had training in the subject 10 years ago. When that happens, don't argue. If getting a warning, take it and thank the nice Officer. If you're getting a ticket, accept it, and then contest the charge in court. You'll have the law on your side, and it'll make the Officer learn a valuable lesson about having their ducks in a row.
Of this I'm sure. The metal scoop with an approved arrestor is legal in all 50 states and by USCG Regulations. No matter which way it's facing. A metal scoop without an arrestor is legal, as long as the opening is facing away from passengers. This also applies to the old "Flower Pot" intakes.

BoatPI
09-30-2004, 04:12 AM
And if your boat backfires, catches on fire, and your insurance investigator discovers the flame arrestor was removed, you may be sent a letter deining coverage for that claim.

bigkatboat
10-09-2004, 09:10 PM
"Not paying" is only done by "nickle, dime" companies. I have been called in on quite a few 'questionable' insurance claims. Misrepresented, horsepower, speed, use, type of boat, equipment, brand name, and type of claim. Was it 'pilot error, or product fault'? The MAJOR companies PAY on your claim, and then cancel you within 60 days. They don't want any kind of 'liability' for underwriting errors. Not paying 'is rare', but in cases where the 'insured' has been caught in an untruthfull statement, it has happened. Take pix of your boat, on a regular basis, tell your insurer when you 'upgrade' anything. They just want to keep a level playing field, and will pay your claim if it is a legitimate loss. False HIN/VIN numbers, stating you have "twin 6.2 Mercs", when you really have "twin 800SC Whipples", "upgrading your stereo" while making your claim, are perfect examples of some of the every day problems insurance companies face. If your boat is so important to you, why do you store it in a field? Why is your 2 year old boat in need of interrior repair? If YOU didn't take care of it, why should the insurance company pay FULL PRICE to fix it, back to BETTER than what it was? How much is your boat insurance, and why???