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View Full Version : Roz Need Help On Mid Speakersand Amps



BADASS38CHEVY
10-31-2004, 12:30 AM
Im having a new lavey deck built and want to run 6.5 coaxles instead of 6x9s, i wont to run somthing differant than 6x9s mainly looking for a cleaner look not such a big speaker grille but still puts out about the same power and clearness.i alway play my music really loud and listen to all kinds of music.i will be running for bass (2) JL Audio w7s with (2) JL Audio 1000/1 amps.my deck is a Pioneer DEH-P960MP xm ready with (2) wire remotes for front and rear controls,i want to run (8) 6.5 coaxles and (2) under engine hatch at the sides for when im partying on the side of boat in the water i can raise the hatch a little to expose the speakers . i have been looking at focals,mb quarts,boston acoustics,jl audio, im looking for high end stuff that wont blow when its cranked up for long periods of time and wont heat up.i always blow mids and tweeters,but want to do it right this time.do you have any suggestions,thanks.

Mr. Naudio
10-31-2004, 05:40 AM
I think for the type of system you describe.
Very loud and proud no matter what music.
Focal 165 cv ployglass 6.5s,with a diamond D5 or D7 amp or two hands down.
I like the JL amps for the subs, for their raw power,But I think the Diamond is a much better sounding amp for those highs.
PS.I like that you are willing to mix up the equipment.

riverbound
10-31-2004, 07:54 AM
I have used the MB Quart, Qserires and the reference series with a lot of success. They willl handle a ton of power and sound good at extremely high volumes.

Evo22
10-31-2004, 08:01 AM
hey bad ass,
there are alot of 6.5 speakers out there that will produce as much if not more out put than a 6x9 I havn't seen a lavey deck's speaker mounting location's so not sure where they are? let us know were thay all are? as far as subs go I know I know I'm gonna get shit for this but W7's are not the way to go the foam surround on them if out in the open(deck boat) will rot and turn to dust in 1 maybe 2 seasons I know there are alot of JL fans here they do sound good but there are way more options out there that will GETRDONE

BADASS38CHEVY
10-31-2004, 09:59 AM
7 of the mids are located under the seating area 2 on each side up front under bench seats and 3 at rear benchs and 1 at the side of the drivers seat,all will be fiberglassed enclosers,the w7s will be in jl audio custom encloser boxes in the storage comparments in the lower gunales in the middle of the boat on both sides.not in the open areas.does this sound ok?

mbrown2
10-31-2004, 10:46 AM
BadAss, ask Lavey about using the Pierced 7" mids....they get them from Transonic and have used them before. They are bad ass...we use them in our Cat and they sound as good as the MB Quart Premiums we have in our Malibu....Awesome Midbass.

ROZ
11-01-2004, 12:53 PM
What amps do plan to use to power your component speakers? The speakers you choose will depend on how much power you plan to throw at them...
I have always steered people away from items like JM Labs(Focal) Utopia's, Boston's Z series, and Quarts Q-line because they are generally wasted in a boat; However, The speakers mentioned are some of the highest RMS rated speakers available that sound great to boot.
There are many speakers in the 75-90 RMS range that will sound just as good in a boat without throwing $$ out the window... Like I said, will depend on how much power you plan to throw at them. JM labs Polyglass, Quart Premier and refrence, Boston Pros, and the Pierced are speakers to look at.
Your main gauge to what to buy is your ears. If you don't like how they sound, don't buy them.
Since you seem to be looking to higherend cleaner amps, 2 more amps to check out are ARC and MB Quart Refrence series...
W7's have run pretty well in the few boats I know of that have them, but they are not completely exposed to the elements. If you're thinking of using a ported application, think of going with 2 w6's. The can do quite well, right Mr Brown? :D
Install will make or break the system...

Rev. Williams
11-01-2004, 04:26 PM
Would a JL 6.5 Component Systems work in a deck boat??? I'm running that along with 4 more straight JL 6.5 and I have highs like nobodys business!!! I added 4 JL 8" subs to fill the mid/low and 2 12's to complete the really low and I'd have to say, it sounds pretty damn good!!

BADASS38CHEVY
11-01-2004, 04:46 PM
this is very confusing, i dont know what sounds good in a deck boat, so i know i have aways liked jl audio bass speakers and prefer to use those for bass,as for a ported box i want loud tight bass i dont care about my bass traveling so everbody in other boats can hear me.im trying to find a speaker that will not blow or heat up if played loud for a long time (more rms)but will sound good in a deck boat.i want to run coaxle not separates.i dont want the small tweeter look,so that limits me to what speaker will have a coaxle speaker that has a high rms that will work good in a deck boat.as for amps for the coaxles that depends on what speakers will work.i just need lots of power because i like my music loud.i just figure find the speakers and then the amp will follow.i have been looking at focal 165 vc polyglass speakers for my mids, and a amp called mmats to run the bass,and a audio control digital crossover,with digital capasitors.

riverbound
11-01-2004, 06:25 PM
Badass
you should go down to AL&Eds in Ontario and listen to some of the stuff they have. They carry it all MB Quart, JL, ALpine, Eclipse...the list goes on. I use to run that shop and they are very straight up and honest there, plus they specialize in marine. Speak to Robert and let him know that Bill sent you down and you are from ***boat and he will take care of you. They have done several boats for forum members and they have all left very happy. The number is (909)481-8411. If you wont to see some of the work they are capable of pick up this months issue of Sport truck magazine the cover truck was the last truck I built before I left.

ROZ
11-01-2004, 07:12 PM
this is very confusing, i dont know what sounds good in a deck boat, so i know i have aways liked jl audio bass speakers and prefer to use those for bass,as for a ported box i want loud tight bass i dont care about my bass traveling so everbody in other boats can hear me.im trying to find a speaker that will not blow or heat up if played loud for a long time (more rms)but will sound good in a deck boat.i want to run coaxle not separates.i dont want the small tweeter look,so that limits me to what speaker will have a coaxle speaker that has a high rms that will work good in a deck boat.as for amps for the coaxles that depends on what speakers will work.i just need lots of power because i like my music loud.i just figure find the speakers and then the amp will follow.i have been looking at focal 165 vc polyglass speakers for my mids, and a amp called mmats to run the bass,and a audio control digital crossover,with digital capasitors.
The premium series Quart PCE216 and Refrence series RCE216 can be run as either a seperate or a component. Same goes for the Boston Z series and Pros... These 4 speakers have a higher power handling capabilities than the 165cv's, but it really depends on how much power you want to push...
Which MMatts are you looking at? noisy but have balls and most are stable to less than an ohm... Made to be REALLY loud... SAme goes for their subs... I've thought of 1 Juggernaut 15 with one of the old 1000 watt amps would spoil some of the comp out there, but they're not really built for SQ. The Dreadnaut 12 and a D1500 is something to consider, but are probably not as nice sounding as a JL or DD...
Another sub to look at is Adire Audio Brahama... Great sub.
Disguard the idea of using the cap in a boat. The less resistance the better.. Invest that money in your charging system... If you then have a voltage problem, look toward using a cap. So far TOBTEK is the only person I know of who has needed a Cap to keep his system going... The others only use it to help filter the incommming current...(on a scope the line is smoother) You probably wouldn't notice the difference, though...

BADASS38CHEVY
11-01-2004, 07:27 PM
thanks roz, so with running the w7s which amps would you run with those subs?and out of the mids that you recommended what would you use? and with what amps?

mbrown2
11-01-2004, 09:22 PM
thanks roz, so with running the w7s which amps would you run with those subs?and out of the mids that you recommended what would you use? and with what amps?
I would either run the MB Quart Premium 6 1/2 set up as coax's...or the Pierced 7inch's...the MB Quart are a little clearer...the Pierced have better mid bass...as for power, either JL Audio Amps, Diamond Audio and Phoenix Gold...I am running PG Xenon 200x4 to 3 sets of Seperates in a 23 boat, 110 x 8 in a 26 boat....In a deck boat, I am figuring their might be 6 sets of mid's/high's so I would at least run 75 to 100 x 12, but some may think you don't need that kind of power....I would rather run loud and not get hot, then heat up one amp trying to get volume....
On the W7's, I would run either JL Audio 1000 x 1 per W7 or PG 1200 x 1....either amp is going to drive that speaker fine....Also, I would listen to the W6's before you go W7's....you can get away with less power, less enclosure and more realistic sounding bass....

BADASS38CHEVY
11-01-2004, 09:41 PM
i heard the w6s a couple of days ago,the were pretty good but i havent heard the w7s yet i figure the w7s would sound better than the w6s the w6s didnt hit as hard as i thought they would.i was told that the jl amps arent as good as there bass speakers .so the pgs are a good amp ?do the have cooling fans ? what size pg would i use ? 2 of the pg 1200s for 2 w7s? the w7s are 750 rms.

mbrown2
11-01-2004, 10:11 PM
i heard the w6s a couple of days ago,the were pretty good but i havent heard the w7s yet i figure the w7s would sound better than the w6s the w6s didnt hit as hard as i thought they would.i was told that the jl amps arent as good as there bass speakers .so the pgs are a good amp ?do the have cooling fans ? what size pg would i use ? 2 of the pg 1200s for 2 w7s? the w7s are 750 rms.
PG's, yes, they have internal cooling fans...I am wondering what kind of enclosure you heard the w6's? I have one in a slot loaded enclosure and it hit hits with just 600x1 to it...
I would disagree on the negative stuff on the JL Amps...they hit really well in every boat I have heard them in that were installed and tuned properly..
For the PG setup, I would run 1 1200x1 to 1 W7...meaning 2400watts to 2 W7 12"s...
If you want to see the Pierced Mid Setup...go to this thread and and look at the DCB at the bottom of the thread...Also, you can see the PG Amps on page 2 of it..
Install Pics (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54479&page=1&pp=25)

Havasu Hangin'
11-02-2004, 05:05 AM
I think the misconception on the JL amps is because it is a regulated power supply, they have the same output from 1.5 to 4 ohms. No cheating.
I can remember the old days when you bought an amp that said 75 watts on it, put a 1/2 ohm load behind it, and watch the magic happen. They hit pretty hard for a 75 watt amp... :supp:

BADASS38CHEVY
11-03-2004, 01:00 PM
is it true that jl audio is made in china now?

ROZ
11-03-2004, 02:00 PM
is it true that jl audio is made in china now?
The Evolution speakers( door speakers) other than the VR series are assembled in China. The VR series are assembled in Taiwan.
The Amplifiers are assembled in Taiwan or Korea.
ALL of their Subwoofers are Made in The USA.
There ya have it :D
Incidentally, MB Quart will be assembled in China pretty soon...

phebus
11-03-2004, 02:40 PM
Hey Roz, what do you think of the MB Quart Nautic 6x9's vs. the Eclipse 4 way 6x9's? Looking for some new 6x9's, and trying to make a choice. Other options?

ROZ
11-03-2004, 04:38 PM
The frequency response of the MB's is a little broader and I think sound pretty good for marine, but the Eclipse may have a smoother sound at higher volume. I'd listen to both if I were you... Maybe Bill's store has both on hand...

riverbound
11-04-2004, 01:07 AM
We do have both on display. The eclipse 4 ways are definitely the way to go. The quarts sound muffled and even though they sound good for a marine speaker they are still far from "good" sounding. I thought by putting the Quarts up on display we would sell more, but in reality once people heard them next to the Eclipses we saw a huge decrease in their sales. You can almost get 2 pairs of Eclipses for the price of 1pair of the Quarts. Come downa nd take a listen to them for yourself. Now if you are thinking af going the non nautic route the quarts will sound the best, especially if you go with the premiums or Q series.

phebus
11-04-2004, 06:52 AM
We do have both on display. The eclipse 4 ways are definitely the way to go. The quarts sound muffled and even though they sound good for a marine speaker they are still far from "good" sounding. I thought by putting the Quarts up on display we would sell more, but in reality once people heard them next to the Eclipses we saw a huge decrease in their sales. You can almost get 2 pairs of Eclipses for the price of 1pair of the Quarts. Come downa nd take a listen to them for yourself. Now if you are thinking af going the non nautic route the quarts will sound the best, especially if you go with the premiums or Q series.
I'm replacing 6x9's, and the Quarts don't have that size listed on their website in the premiums or the Q series, so it looks like the Eclipse may be the way to go.

ROZ
11-04-2004, 08:51 AM
Once you hit the Premium lineup in MBQ, you're realy looking for SQ. Since there really isn't a market or an SQ 6x9 at 500.00 pr, they stop at the RCE269. The RCE x9 will handle more power than the 4way 6x9...

BADASS38CHEVY
11-04-2004, 11:51 AM
well i think i have found the speaker system im looking for .i was going to go with 3 w6v2 in the jl audio custom inclosure with the 1000/1 amp, with 5 sets of peirced 7 in coaxles with jl 450/4 and the 300/2 amps.any feedback?

ROZ
11-04-2004, 12:10 PM
any feedback?
Ear muffs :D
Make sure you post pictures and give us feedback on the result of your research effort!

mbrown2
11-04-2004, 12:14 PM
well i think i have found the speaker system im looking for .i was going to go with 3 w6v2 in the jl audio custom inclosure with the 1000/1 amp, with 5 sets of peirced 7 in coaxles with jl 450/4 and the 300/2 amps.any feedback?
Sounds like a nice setup...333 to each sub should be ok, but that is a little on the light side for that sub if we are talking the 12".....3 12's should really hit. :D

ROZ
11-04-2004, 12:45 PM
little on the light side for that sub if we are talking the 12".....3 12's should really hit. :D
I thought he was talking about a 3w6v2 j/k :D

BADASS38CHEVY
11-04-2004, 12:48 PM
Hi i forgot to mention im putting 3 12's anymore suggestions because i want to do it right the 1st time and spend the rest partying!! hey and thanks for your help!!!!!!! :idea: t

BADASS38CHEVY
11-04-2004, 01:04 PM
I thought he was talking about a 3w6v2 j/k :D
Roz that was 3 of the w6v2s sorry.im trying to not run 2 amps to bass if i dont have to.

mbrown2
11-04-2004, 01:10 PM
Sounds like you got it covered...which batteries are you going with? I would do at least 2 Odyssey 1700's with that power dedicated to the system with a 1200 for starting....You can go all out with 4 six volts and a single 12 volt starting, or even a generator / power source setup, but for simplicity two 1700's should do the trick, just keep them charged and you should be able to go for 5-6 hours at full tilt...At least that has been my experience with two 1700's....
If you really want to go over the top, you might want to look at upgrading the alternator to a 200...that is my next upgrade.

BADASS38CHEVY
11-04-2004, 02:13 PM
Sounds like you got it covered...which batteries are you going with? I would do at least 2 Odyssey 1700's with that power dedicated to the system with a 1200 for starting....You can go all out with 4 six volts and a single 12 volt starting, or even a generator / power source setup, but for simplicity two 1700's should do the trick, just keep them charged and you should be able to go for 5-6 hours at full tilt...At least that has been my experience with two 1700's....
If you really want to go over the top, you might want to look at upgrading the alternator to a 200...that is my next upgrade.
thats good to here .i checked in to the odysseys they want 187.00 each for the 1700t batteries.im checking into a 200 amp marine alternator ,do you know where i can get them ? thanks.

phebus
11-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Copied this that someone had posted earlier. You might check on 200 amp from him.
There's a guy in Parker that has a smokin' price on chrome marine 100 amp alternators.
Ron @ RB Performance
(928)669-6411
I think they were like $100 or something. If they were anywhere close to 100 amps...it's a good deal.
__________________

phebus
11-04-2004, 02:54 PM
Is there a website for the pierced speakers?

mbrown2
11-04-2004, 03:15 PM
Here you go...this is one I am going to do on my Malibu...
Stoker 210 Amp Alternator (http://www.malibuboatowners.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=37&osCsid=f2275a932386796dbfe397542b279af2)

mbrown2
11-04-2004, 03:17 PM
Is there a website for the pierced speakers?
No..you will need to call Transonic in Upland...they have a display there where you can listen to them...
Basically they went to China and working with a manufacture there took the best components from every body elses speakers and created one and started the company...
More diameter...= 7"
Carbon Fiber Cones...=Stand up to weather forever
Rubber Surrounds that the grills fit into...= Grills don't fall off
They were made from the ground up for the marine market, and they look good too..

riverbound
11-04-2004, 10:03 PM
My word of advice is stay with a larger name brand product and not fall for the BS that compnaies try to sell you on so you will buy their private labeled product. The only reason companies private label items to reduce the ability for the customer to go out and compare pricing (we USED to do the same thing) Our private label products had margins in the 70%-90% range where most of the big name product had margins in the 30-45% range. Now as abusiness owner which product are you going to focus on? As a shop owner you will tell the customer whatever they need to hear to buy your private labeled product versus the other stuff that you dont nearly make as much money on.
When we were looking at building a private label brand we contacted the same chineese manufactures, why? because they looked high quality but kept the cost down so we could make more money. I would highly recommend doing some shopping. Buy with your ears not your eyes.

ROZ
11-04-2004, 11:45 PM
Those speakers MBrown has sound realy good....
I have the names of several Chinese MFG's who'd be glad to make my product to whatever speacs I request.

mbrown2
11-05-2004, 08:59 AM
Buy with your ears not your eyes.
I hear what your saying Riverbound, and I don't really like buying stuff not made in America, but these speakers are really reasonable. Also, when you look at the specs they are pretty good, and when you hear them in the boat, they are really good. I have the MB Quart Prem's in one boat and the Pierced in another boat so I get to hear both on a daily basis, and for the money the Pierced are on par with them with better mid bass, now if MB still made the 8 coax's I would have went with those....Only thing I am still concerned about is how long will they last (making them); for if they go under, I have 7" holes and nothing out there can replace them.. :)

BADASS38CHEVY
11-09-2004, 10:47 PM
:rollside: Thanks everyone for your input on this post.

hallett 260
11-10-2004, 09:29 AM
Hey Badass,
Where are you mounting those subs? Inside, under the seats? Don't they need to be exposed to the open? I have a Hallett deck that I would like to add some bass to.
Zach

BADASS38CHEVY
11-10-2004, 10:47 AM
Hey Badass,
Where are you mounting those subs? Inside, under the seats? Don't they need to be exposed to the open? I have a Hallett deck that I would like to add some bass to.
Zach
Hey Zach, im going to put them in the mid storage area in the gunnel area.there is alot of store down below on both sides.they will be mounted in the jl aduio sub box ,the box aready comes loaded with (3) w6s subs in it cost is 1300.00.

hallett 260
11-10-2004, 03:11 PM
So the speakers don't actually have to be exposed to the outside air? You can keep the whole system confined in the storage area?

ROZ
11-10-2004, 03:57 PM
Hey Zach, im going to put them in the mid storage area in the gunnel area.there is alot of store down below on both sides.they will be mounted in the jl aduio sub box ,the box aready comes loaded with (3) w6s subs in it cost is 1300.00.
This one? :
http://www.jlaudio.com/enclosures/images/CVS312RG_W6v2_FLT.jpg
1300.00 is a decent price for the CVS312RG-w6v2. We s/o order that for 1500.00 retail...
I don't know how well it will sound crammed into a compartment though....