El Toro Airport???

[H20Advantage]

Did anyone catch the bit on the news about someone trying to backdoor an initiative which would override the peoples vote against an airport at El Toro and start the building process.
I walked in on the last part of the news story and did not get the details. Imagine what this could do to housing prices in OC. :( Much less the traffic and air/noise pollution we would get.

[welk2party]

Did anyone catch the bit on the news about someone trying to backdoor an initiative which would override the peoples vote against an airport at El Toro and start the building process.
I walked in on the last part of the news story and did not get the details. Imagine what this could do to housing prices in OC. :( Much less the traffic and air/noise pollution we would get.
Not that I am an expert on the subject, and I do not mean to stir the pot, but was there not already noise pollution when the base was operating? Traffic...it already sucks! Just tossing my .02 in.

[H20Advantage]

There was and now it is very quiet. Even with the military base you had sporatic movement in mass and usually quiet at night . Don't think they could do that with an international airport. Planes 24/7 coming and going.
We live next door to Irvine and since the planes are gone so is the layer of black soot on our cars and anything else setting outside. Probably breathing the stuff in also. I could also see a big drop in house prices around here. The OC airport is bad enough with the excessive noise.

[nodigg]

Where did you here this? I thought it was all over with? I'm ready for the giant park to open up. Of course, I would like to see a private/light air craft runway for personal reasons................. :D I'm right next door to the base.

[H20Advantage]

Channel 5 news this morning while getting ready for work. I only caught part of this and was wondering if someone else heard it.

[Krumbsnatcher]

Channel 5 news this morning while getting ready for work. I only caught part of this and was wondering if someone else heard it.
The hotties are on Fox, unless you leave earlier. :sqeyes:

[THOR]

The bidding will start shortly for a master plan community there. OC airport is only 5 miles away. Wont happen.

[Parker Dreamin]

Supervisors close lid on airport plans
They rescind mid-'90s El Toro reports that attempted to pave way for project.
By NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
The Orange County Register
SANTA ANA – Calling it the final "nail in the coffin" for a commercial airport at the former El Toro Marine base, county supervisors Tuesday rescinded two key environmental reports approved in the mid-1990s that attempted to pave the way for the project.
"From my perspective, these (reports) should never have been approved in the first place," said Supervisor Tom Wilson, an original opponent of the airport proposal and current board chairman.
The environmental plans, the subject of ongoing litigation by groups opposed to an airport, were rescinded just as they were approved: on a 3-2 vote. Supervisors Chuck Smith and Jim Silva, longtime airport proponents, voted against killing them.
After a decade of heated political battles, voters killed the project in March 2002, with 58 percent supporting a ballot measure that will allow the 4,500 acres to be developed. The county previously supported Irvine's annexation of the land, which the city plans to develop with housing, businesses and a park.
Gary Thompson, a Rancho Santa Margarita councilman who worked with a coalition of south-county cities opposing the airport, said the supervisors' action would end several legal challenges against the environmental reports.
"The will officially end all litigation against El Toro," he said.
However, some airport activists told supervisors that the battle could reappear.
Airport foe Len Kranser warned supervisors that efforts in Sacramento to create a regional airport authority could allow airport proponents to revisit the El Toro site. He called on supervisors to place their Sacramento lobbyists "on alert."
The Navy owns the base property and plans to sell it in five large parcels at public auction in January.

[RiverToysJas]

I've voted for that airport every time it's come up, and I know it passed a couple of times, if not everytime. But the people who bought houses when it was still an airport keep blocking it!!! :mad: I used to really hope it happened, I don't care so much anymore. It would make a great airport though, esp being that it always was one and all.
RTJas :D

[Tequila-John]

Supervisors close lid on airport plans
They rescind mid-'90s El Toro reports that attempted to pave way for project.
By NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
The Orange County Register
SANTA ANA – Calling it the final "nail in the coffin" for a commercial airport at the former El Toro Marine base, county supervisors Tuesday rescinded two key environmental reports approved in the mid-1990s that attempted to pave the way for the project.
"From my perspective, these (reports) should never have been approved in the first place," said Supervisor Tom Wilson, an original opponent of the airport proposal and current board chairman.
The environmental plans, the subject of ongoing litigation by groups opposed to an airport, were rescinded just as they were approved: on a 3-2 vote. Supervisors Chuck Smith and Jim Silva, longtime airport proponents, voted against killing them.
After a decade of heated political battles, voters killed the project in March 2002, with 58 percent supporting a ballot measure that will allow the 4,500 acres to be developed. The county previously supported Irvine's annexation of the land, which the city plans to develop with housing, businesses and a park.
Gary Thompson, a Rancho Santa Margarita councilman who worked with a coalition of south-county cities opposing the airport, said the supervisors' action would end several legal challenges against the environmental reports.
"The will officially end all litigation against El Toro," he said.
However, some airport activists told supervisors that the battle could reappear.
Airport foe Len Kranser warned supervisors that efforts in Sacramento to create a regional airport authority could allow airport proponents to revisit the El Toro site. He called on supervisors to place their Sacramento lobbyists "on alert."
The Navy owns the base property and plans to sell it in five large parcels at public auction in January.
Great work bud.

[RiverToysJas]

After a decade of heated political battles, voters killed the project in March 2002, with 58 percent supporting a ballot measure that will allow the 4,500 acres to be developed. The county previously supported Irvine's annexation of the land, which the city plans to develop with housing, businesses and a park.
The anti-airport people kept sending it to vote, until they got their way. I still remember the large amount of anti-airport propiganda they'd send to my house... :rolleyes:
RTJas :D

[nodigg]

An airport has to go somewhere. There was already an airport/airbase there so why not use it?
I don't know... It seems logicial to me. Why spend the money and resourses to build a new one when one is already availabe.
I know, I know. NIMBY right?
Forensic
EASY there!. We don't wanna live next to another LAX down here! :( http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1865littledoubt_046-med.jpg

[RiverToysJas]

EASY there!. We don't wanna live next to another LAX down here! :( Originally Posted by Racer277
Come on Rick, it's not like you don't have other houses! :p
RTJas :D <-- Lives less than 1/4 mile from an active runway!

[nodigg]

Come on Rick, it's not like you don't have other houses! :p
RTJas :D <-- Lives less than 1/4 mile from an active runway!
but this is my MAIN house! Jason, you have always beeen kind to me but now I have to say this............BIACH! LOL!
Please don't ruin this peacful retirement home I have! :cry: http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1865littledoubt_046.jpg

[beer hunter]

EASY there!. We don't wanna live next to another LAX down here! :( http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1865littledoubt_046-med.jpg
You got that right!! :D

[HBjet]

I wanted an airport there as well. I think Orange County has grown enough to have it own international airport. Going to LAX sucks.
HBjet

[nodigg]

I wanted an airport there as well. I think Orange County has grown enough to have it own international airport. Going to LAX sucks.
HBjet
Randy, you're killing me! :cry: How ya' been bud?

[JB in so cal]

I've voted for that airport every time it's come up, and I know it passed a couple of times, if not everytime. But the people who bought houses when it was still an airport keep blocking it!!! :mad: I used to really hope it happened, I don't care so much anymore. It would make a great airport though, esp being that it always was one and all.
RTJas :D
I bought 2 houses when El Toro was open. Biiiiiiiiig difference between El Toro MCAS and El Toro International: Maybe 100 take offs and landings - military; plan for ETX was between 300 and 400 operations daily. An F-18 gains altitude pretty quickly and is out of range sooner than a lumbering 747-400 loaded for a flight to Taiwan. STRIP CLUBS!!! - oh wait, I take that one back. Ontario is begging for flights/customers - just getting there is the challenge. And South County residents not wanting an airport is about the same as Newport area peeps suing to keep John Wayne at artificially lower capacities than what the market would otherwiswe demand.
JB

[GASHGAZER]

http://www.heritagefields.com/
this is the website that is the official overlay of the former base. It will go to auction soon and soon become an annex of Irvine (They will incorporate the County property) I have worked with many planning firms and land developers that have spent way too much money and time on creating the most public friendly land use. It will still take many years after the auction due to many environmental issues that are still lingering. The Helicopter base will be developed long before MCAS El Toro will even break ground. The environmenal remidiation is active as we speak, but has a long way to go. One benefit though... cheap golf on base :) The Farm Lots (aka Parcel 4) would be first developed. As far as wanting an airport there, when they actually landed different sized planes there back in 1999, the noise was not that bad, considering the main flight plan comes in over the ocean, and take-off would be into the mountains over the toll-road area. I think we have plenty of airports and Ontario needs to be better exploited. Just my .02 and what I know of the project. BTW does anyone have a 540 or 509?? My 502MPI blew out and need opinions on upgrades....

[TheLurker]

This is correct. There are still quite a few people who are trying to backdoor the will of the people down here. It is being led by the ex mayor of El Segundo
Mike Gordon who was just elected to some state post. He made his name fighting the expansion of LAX. He is trying to create a regional government body that can override local jurisdiction.
The man quoted in the article Len Kransner started a Blog in the mid 90's to fight the El Toro airport being rammed down our througths by the people in Newport Beach who wanted to close John Wayne Airport, and some businessmen who would have made a lot of money from the construction.
eltoroairport.org
You should check there for info although they are mainly liberal posters on the message board. I only lurk there.
It is not understatement to say his efforts helped organize and mobilize the grass roots campaign that led to the removal of one OC Supervisor (Cynthia Choad) and the eventual annexation of the land by Irvine.

[TheLurker]

[QUOTE=GASHGAZER]http://www.heritagefields.com/
the noise was not that bad, considering the main flight plan comes in over the ocean, and take-off would be into the mountains over the toll-road area. QUOTE]
I agree with everything else you posted but You ovisouly were not at the flight demonstrations the county put on.
The flights came in over Aliso Viejo and Laguna Woods. The planes were for the most part empty I can get all of the stats to back this up along with the county’s own decibel report.
Is your information from Charles Griffins so called "V" plan for take off and landing directions because they are not feasible?

[GASHGAZER]

I was actually out on the boat after diving in Shaw's cove down in Laguna before the tests, then while having a few beers, saw the planes one by one as they came in.... that's why I can only have an opinion about that approach. Believe me, I would love an airport there, we own our building in Lake Forest and I will only see the value go up either way... but I like the quiet right now, compared to the carrier practice days. Was cool though, like an airshow every day.

[Ntwotrance]

First off, Dang, I live right down the street from ya Digg and never knew. Okay that said....here it is. We are doing the base closures and will be for quite some time. Some areas have been cleared for sale. there are areas that will take some time to get to acceptable clean up levels based on whatever end use the city decides. As far as an airport...well, not in this lifetime.

[RiverToysJas]

but this is my MAIN house! Jason, you have always beeen kind to me but now I have to say this............BIACH! LOL!
Please don't ruin this peacful retirement home I have! :cry: http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1865littledoubt_046.jpg
LOL! Nice Boat, can I tube behind that sometime Rick??? :D You really should have graphics put on it to match your Cheetah!!! ;)
As for the airport, it's not being rammed down the throats of those who don't want it, I say - it's being ripped from the hands of OC residence who do want it! ;) :D It's not going to happen now anyway, so it's not even worth gettin' upset over. :messedup:
RTJas :D

[RiverToysJas]

I just thought of the solution to this airport problem and a few other problems too...!!! :D
We cut the entire top off of Catalina island, and build a HUGE International Airport, and on the back side, a large shipping port!
> The airport would be served by three high speed trainlines, one from Long Beach, one from Oceanside, and one from San Diego. These highspeed trains would travel in tunnels under the ocean. LAX, Ontario, Long Beach, and Santa Ana airports could all be down sized to commuter terminals, also serving Catalina International!
> The shipping port, would be on the back side of the island, so we can't see the ships. It would also take all shipping traffic from Long Beach / San Pedro, allowing them to develope more of that valuable land for homes, businesses and shopping. There would still be a very large parking facility for the airport, but otherwise it could all be developed. The shipping cargo would come to the mainland via the under ocean trainlines!!!
Now we won't have big airplanes overhead, or big ships blocking our view of the ocean!!!
OK, that ones solved, any other problems you guys need help with???
RTJas :D
(BTW - I know someone will ask, so I will say it now - I'M ONLY KIDDING!!!! :hammer2: LOL )

[nodigg]

Thanks Jason but sorry no tubing allowed here. Besides, at 5 mph top speed you would not have much fun...wait, your beer wouldn't spill! It's not all bad.
Yeah I got something you can help with. How do I get the Board to allow me to put a blower on my ElectraCraft?? I aleady figure they would take me to court if I put backwards flames on "Little Doubt". :wink:

[nodigg]

First off, Dang, I live right down the street from ya Digg and never knew. Okay that said....here it is. We are doing the base closures and will be for quite some time. Some areas have been cleared for sale. there are areas that will take some time to get to acceptable clean up levels based on whatever end use the city decides. As far as an airport...well, not in this lifetime.
Where do you live? I'm on Huron. I can wait for the old base to develop. Just glad Jason and his crew were not allowed to trash the neighborhood with a friggin international airport! :D
Now it seems he is spear-heading a movement to violate the scerenity of Catalina Island! :D

[Dr. Eagle]

The OC airport is bad enough with the excessive noise.
I'd say you should protest with your feet and fly out of LAX or Ontario (in the former 909) from now on...
But they are Not In My Back Yard...
When they closed Mather Air Force Base up here I was thrilled when they kept the airport open, it eases traffic as Sac International and is a great general aviation airport. And I live under the approach path... so that one IS in my back yard... :idea:

[GASHGAZER]

I like the Catalina idea... but why not just make it off San Clemente Island.... outta sight outta mind, plus if there are any kinds of spills, it'll drift on down to Mexico and maybe settle off the tire burning place. The military already flies and bombs the hell out of that area anyway. Ship out more goats to clear the fields quicker too... have a great Turkey day everyone... I'm outta here :)

[Dr. Eagle]

I like the Catalina idea... but why not just make it off San Clemente Island.... outta sight outta mind, plus if there are any kinds of spills, it'll drift on down to Mexico and maybe settle off the tire burning place. The military already flies and bombs the hell out of that area anyway. Ship out more goats to clear the fields quicker too... have a great Turkey day everyone... I'm outta here :)
You couldn't even build a sidewalk on Catalina, let alone an airport... it is a preserve.

[77charger]

our shop is very close to there(we were under the landing path).When it was an afb when on the pone taking a job address(from regular custumers)all we had to do is say jet above that meant when it goes over resume talking was normal to pause the conversation. just part of doing bus there.Now when they did the aiprport test with the 747 it blew the fighter jets away as far as noise goes.the fighter jets were mainly daytime thing now a 24/7 with more noise???
I dont live there so i dont care if it became an airport or not imo i dont think it will fly so to speak

[JustMVG]

I want a street legal racetrack built there, a drag strip for those guys a challenging road course for guys like me..... Yeah i know it's just a dream, just like the old days watching the Airshows..... ahh the good old days.... MVG

[nodigg]

I want a street legal racetrack built there, a drag strip for those guys a challenging road course for guys like me..... Yeah i know it's just a dream, just like the old days watching the Airshows..... ahh the good old days.... MVG
BRING BACK OCIR!

[Racer277]

BRING BACK OCIR!
I second that motion!
All in favor say AYE!
R277

[Dr. Eagle]

I second that motion!
All in favor say AYE!
R277
AYE AYE!

[luckymick]

I think you guys are forgetting one important agency: FAA.
I think they had a fit about the number of landings/proxmity to SNA, LB, ONT, and LAX. They published a report about the number of planes within a certain flight path at 220 knots (landing speed) "x" miles apart and basically said "no way". If I remember correctly there was a suggestion to bring the jets (for landing pattern) directly over Saddleback mtn, but then you'd have another San Diego landing scenario. :jawdrop:
I'm a So. OC'r (since 1968) and believe the airport would be a disaster. I don't know if any of you have been around LAX, but on the north and west sides there are entire housing tracts leveled 'cause of the airport! Not to mention the other trash that collects around Century blvd etc... I lived there; went to Loyola Marymount....

[roostwear]

BRING BACK OCIR!
NOTHING would make me happier!
http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbbstang/aerial.jpg