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Wet Dream
12-05-2004, 06:12 AM
My home is close to 100 years old out here in Pennsylvania. Originally it was lit with oil or gas lanterns, then "upgraded" to knob and tube. Most of the system has been further renewed by a previous owner and your standard romex is being used. As the house is getting remodeled, all new wire is being run to the breaker box. When we first moved in about 4 years ago, with the age of the house we didn't think anything of it to see the lights dim while the washing machine motor did its thing or if there was a power saw on, it would expectedly dim. Over the last few months its been getting worse. Well now, without any power robbing appliance on, and nothing changing in the way of power consumption, the lights will dim. I couldn't tell you how much, but if 120V = 100%, then I would say they dim to 80% in a worse case flicker. It doesn't matter what light is on or how many, they will all dim throughout the house. Hell, sometimes they might even go brighter than normal for a second or 2. I had the electric company come out and they checked it over. Everything was fine on their end and the neighbors aren't having any similar problems. Does anyone have any ideas where to begin? Its not tripping any breakers so I don't think its a hazard, and if anything its just more of an annoyance that needs to be fixed.

Essexive G's
12-05-2004, 06:23 AM
Check your grounds coming into the breaker box

JetBoatRich
12-05-2004, 06:27 AM
The wiring inside the house and breaker panel replaced :confused: what about the wiring coming into the house :confused:

Wet Dream
12-05-2004, 06:59 AM
The ground (copper rod) has yet to be installed. Been that way for I don't know how many years. The wiring was replaced, but no the service panel has been there since 1975. Damn thing is as old as my wife. :sqeyes: I'm wondering if the panel is so old that its not up to the task anymore? And the outside wiring was inspected and is ok, and they said they would replace it it I asked for it to be, but that doesn't appear to be the problem.

DansBlown73Nordic
12-05-2004, 07:04 AM
Sounds like a poor ground. It could also be a bad connection someplace. I know at one time alot of cheap aluminum wire was used. The stuff corodes and looses conection. Im sure with enough arcing a fire could start. I would think it isn't something to screw with. :220v: :220v: :220v:

ahhell
12-05-2004, 07:26 AM
Sounds like ghosts to me :220v:

joeygo
12-05-2004, 07:34 AM
Hey Wet, If were talking about a 120v appliance, When you turn it on and you notice that half the lights in the house dim and the other half in the house get bright. Then you have a bad neutral or return.To trouble shoot this you need a volt meter and a small clamp on amp meter.I agree w/Ess-g the first thing to do is check all your ground connections at your panel. Don't just look at them. Put a screwdriver on each one and try to tighten each one a little.REMEMBER--------------SAFETY :sqeyes: Wear safety glasses and some dry leather gloves. 600v rubber gloves are better but most peeps don't have 'em. This is what's going on, if this is the problem. Open Neut. no return so it drags down the voltage on this leg (low voltage) and trys to return on the other leg(high voltage) Do a voltage check at your panel and you'll be able to see it dip on one leg and go up on the other when you turn the appliance on.Does it only happen w/the washing mach ? Turn on a light and then use your microwave. Watch the lights and see if they dip.If were talking about flicker thats somthing different

Banshee
12-05-2004, 07:45 AM
Hey Wet, If were talking about a 120v appliance, When you turn it on and you notice that half the lights in the house dim and the other half in the house get bright. Then you have a bad neutral or return.To trouble shoot this you need a volt meter and a small clamp on amp meter.I agree w/Ess-g the first thing to do is check all your ground connections at your panel. Don't just look at them. Put a screwdriver on each one and try to tighten each one a little.REMEMBER--------------SAFETY :sqeyes: Wear safety glasses and some dry leather gloves. 600v rubber gloves are better but most peeps don't have 'em. This is what's going on, if this is the problem. Open Neut. no return so it drags down the voltage on this leg (low voltage) and trys to return on the other leg(high voltage) Do a voltage check at your panel and you'll be able to see it dip on one leg and go up on the other when you turn the appliance on.Does it only happen w/the washing mach ? Turn on a light and then use your microwave. Watch the lights and see if they dip.If were talking about flicker thats somthing different
What he said.
I would check every connection in the panel. Open the main breaker and check every screw in the panel- the hot and common connections. Then very carefully check the service wire connections. You may need an allen wrench for those and sometimes there is a stated torque value.
If all else fails, call somebody that actually knows what they are doing :confused:

LilHarley
12-05-2004, 07:54 AM
You may want to call your electrical company and have your voltage checked to see what voltage is being delivered to your panel.
If your house is that old, and you have been upgrading the house, the size of cable, distance from the transformer, size of transformer and number of customers on the transformer may not not be providing you with enough current to your home.
Originally, when the washing machine started, A/C comes on, etc. and the lights dim, is normally considered flicker, which is caused by the start of a motor and not enough voltage for the sudden demand. With your lights now getting dimmer without the sudden demand of motor, it now sounds like your supplied voltage is extremely low.
Good luck.... :rollside:

Cas
12-05-2004, 08:45 AM
if you're adding romex, where are you connecting the ground? You said you didn't have a grounding rod as yet. are your water lines bonded with the ground?
Everything that was said previous is good info but you need all the pieces in place.

rrrr
12-05-2004, 03:22 PM
You may want to call your electrical company and have your voltage checked to see what voltage is being delivered to your panel.
If your house is that old, and you have been upgrading the house, the size of cable, distance from the transformer, size of transformer and number of customers on the transformer may not not be providing you with enough current to your home.
Good call. When I moved in my house, a 75 kVA xfmr in the alley was serving 5 houses. We had voltage drop problems like you described. I checked everything out and found that I was only getting 102 volts at the meter. Not long after that, the xfmr blew a boot connector on the HV side. When the utility company workers showed up, I told them about the voltage drop and asked 'em to bring a bigger replacement xfmr.
They installed a 100 kVA, it helped but the voltage was still low. A couple of years ago the concrete pad the xfmr was mounted on broke and started sinking. When they came out to fix it, I talked them into installing a 167 kVA xfmr. Now life is good. Just lucky how that all happened.
BTW, if your panel was made by Federal Pacific or Zinsco, change it! Those two brands are junk and can start a fire. The Zinsco stuff was popular in your part of the country, they went out of business years ago. A Square D replacement panel with breakers already installed is about $260.00 at Home Depot.
As others suggested, make sure the neutral terminal strip and the ground terminal strip have a good connection between them, a #6 AWG minimum. Install a ground bar and a bond to your water piping NOW! Safety is cheap, accidents aren't. Good luck.

Wet Dream
12-05-2004, 03:27 PM
I'll get to these great responses as best I can. I'm leaning toward a bad (insufficient) panel. I was told that upgrading to a 200A service panel would benefit the size of the house better. All of our entrance lines are above ground, cosmetically ugly but thats how they did things out here. The outside lines were replaced about 5 years ago and the transformer is less than 100' from the house. Nothing has to be on to get the lights to flicker. And by flickering, I mean that they will go dim for a second or 2 and come back. The dimming is noticeable, but not darkening to where it looks like its on a dimmer switch. Sometimes it will do this 2 to 3 cycles and stop, but only for about 10 seconds. Turn on the microwave, the whole house goes dim, not sections. It doesn't go so low that things like the Tv or computer that require a minimum power requirement to operate shut off. If anything its just annoying. I'm not a big fan of getting fried by electricity over 110, but I'll pop open that panel and see what kind of sparks I can make. :D And I was told that when I install the ground rod, I can clamp it to the water lines, so I guess thats my ground.

rrrr
12-05-2004, 03:46 PM
Look at these illustrations:
Wiring Diagrams (http://www.nemmar.com/a07-illus/house-illustrations-0069.shtml)
Note 0555 and 0550 deal with bonding the neutral to ground and installing the grounding conductor to the water pipe. Just run a second grounding conductor to the ground rod. This securely ties your electrical service and house to a single ground reference, the safest way to go.
There are other good illustrations on that website, just look at the index page.
If the entire house is dimming, the problem is the ground, the panel incoming utility wire connection, or the panel itself. You also have to check the connections at the meter base outside. The utility company or an electrician should do this, because the line side of the meter base will be energized.

joeygo
12-05-2004, 06:19 PM
Wet, there are two different things were talking about here. I your first post you stated.
Hell, sometimes they might even go brighter than normal for a second or 2
If this is happening you have a neutral return problem.Call the elec. co. back out. Have them double check again.Out here in Cali there is no charge to the customer.Most of the time I'd just change out the connectors @ the weatherhead and at the service pole also. You cannot tell if a connector is going bad by just looking at it.The process of elimination works best.
If you do call them back,meet him there and explain in depth what is going on.Try to duplicate the problem and get a voltage read at the panel when it's happening.Best of luck

mike37
12-05-2004, 06:32 PM
I didn't read all the post but if you have no ground rod or any other ground sours it will cause a lot of problems
then the next thing breakers
make sher all the neutral connections in the main panel a tight

bordsmnj
12-05-2004, 07:25 PM
i hear alot of good things that may very well be the cause . did anyone say anything about the service drop conductors being old and way under sized? get a new bigger panel(bonded right) and then have the utility drop a new bigger line. then you wanna make sure that the load is balanced but that's something else...

Cas
12-05-2004, 08:35 PM
Shocker, I mean Shocking Party at Wet Dreams!!