Domn8er Boats question

[RiverOtter]

Is the Domn8er Deck Cat a Conquest / Magic hull or their own design?

[cola]

their own design

[phebus]

their own design
From the ground up, or a modified splash?

[cola]

From the ground up, or a modified splash?
? I was told ground up. Chris @ Stealth should know the low down.

[Stealth Marine]

? I was told ground up. Chris @ Stealth should know the low down.
It is a heavily modified splash.
The splash was done just so they would have a base form to build up a new hull from, rather than having to build up a brand new wooden base to work on.
For all intents and purposes, its their very own hull.
ANd I would be the first one to say its Mighty Nice!!

[BoatFloating]

It is a heavily modified splash.
The splash was done just so they would have a base form to build up a new hull from, rather than having to build up a brand new wooden base to work on.
For all intents and purposes, its their very own hull.
ANd I would be the first one to say its Mighty Nice!!
Uh! if it's a Splash it's A Splash and not there own hull period. I don't care if you modify it
Heavily They didn't bother to build their own hull from the grond up deciding instead to go with a proven hull that was Splashed also. A Rose by any other name still smells sweet like they say. So call it what it is.
This is why you see so many boat companies today good or bad. The problem is these fly by night boat companies sell them cheap because they don't have the R&D time and money invested. The list runs long of companies that Splash and started their business. I think it's BS and gives the companies that splash a unfair advantage.

[Domn8er]

Is the Domn8er Deck Cat a Conquest / Magic hull or their own design?
It is actually their own design. Check out their web page. www.Domn8er.com

[DogMan]

All is fair in love, war, and hot boats I guess.....nice looking deck on their web page.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

It is actually their own design. Check out their web page. www.Domn8er.com
I'm not saying one way or the other about Domn8er, but simply going to a builders website is not confirmation enough, at least for me, that a hull design is not a splash, modified splash, heavily modified splash, or a brand new hull design built from the plug up. Anyone can say anything they want and that is very prevalent in the boating industry.

[RiverOtter]

It is actually their own design. Check out their web page. www.Domn8er.com
I did. That's why I asked. It looked familiar.

[Stealth Marine]

Uh! if it's a Splash it's A Splash and not there own hull period. I don't care if you modify it
Heavily They didn't bother to build their own hull from the grond up deciding instead to go with a proven hull that was Splashed also. A Rose by any other name still smells sweet like they say. So call it what it is.
This is why you see so many boat companies today good or bad. The problem is these fly by night boat companies sell them cheap because they don't have the R&D time and money invested. The list runs long of companies that Splash and started their business. I think it's BS and gives the companies that splash a unfair advantage.
WRONG!
You are assuming that ANY of the original hull is still there as part of the end result.
If I were to splash someone hull ONLY in as much as I used it as a base to build up the layering of bondo, ie. a structural sub-floor to build on, then the end result will bear VERY little resemblance to the starting point. To that end you could say EVERY cat hull out there is a splash of the first Cat hull ever laid up since they all bear certain similarities.
If your splash is 20ft long, and your final is 28ft, would you consider that merely a copy of the original?
Cost and efficiency of manufacturing strongly push you towards NOT building your plug from a zero start point. Anything you can do to get a basic form to build from puts you ahead in both time and money and WEIGHT, and if done properly and with a little integrity does not have to infringe on the orriginal in any way at all....

[Domn8er]

I'm not saying one way or the other about Domn8er, but simply going to a builders website is not confirmation enough, at least for me, that a hull design is not a splash, modified splash, heavily modified splash, or a brand new hull design built from the plug up. Anyone can say anything they want and that is very prevalent in the boating industry.
I wasn't saying their website verified it, I was just offering their website since it is new.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I wasn't saying their website verified it, I was just offering their website since it is new.
Ah, my misunderstanding then.

[Domn8er]

Ah, my misunderstanding then.
After looking at it, I probably phrased it wrong.

[unleashed]

Uh! if it's a Splash it's A Splash and not there own hull period. I don't care if you modify it
Heavily They didn't bother to build their own hull from the grond up deciding instead to go with a proven hull that was Splashed also. A Rose by any other name still smells sweet like they say. So call it what it is.
This is why you see so many boat companies today good or bad. The problem is these fly by night boat companies sell them cheap because they don't have the R&D time and money invested. The list runs long of companies that Splash and started their business. I think it's BS and gives the companies that splash a unfair advantage.
There you go Rocky, causing trouble again! :D
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[Debbolas]

We looked at their boats before buying our Kachina...our friend bought one of their boats. It was my understanding they were using old hulls (at least last year when Matt and I went out to Upland they were) :)

[boatnutjim]

Eliminator!!!!!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Eliminator!!!!!
Considering you're coming on here and advertising that you are a new Eliminator dealer in AZ I don't think it is wise to go into a thread about another builder and tout your own product. By doing that you may turn off any potential customers. Just my $.02.

[BoatFloating]

WRONG!
You are assuming that ANY of the original hull is still there as part of the end result.
If I were to splash someone hull ONLY in as much as I used it as a base to build up the layering of bondo, ie. a structural sub-floor to build on, then the end result will bear VERY little resemblance to the starting point. To that end you could say EVERY cat hull out there is a splash of the first Cat hull ever laid up since they all bear certain similarities.
If your splash is 20ft long, and your final is 28ft, would you consider that merely a copy of the original?
Cost and efficiency of manufacturing strongly push you towards NOT building your plug from a zero start point. Anything you can do to get a basic form to build from puts you ahead in both time and money and WEIGHT, and if done properly and with a little integrity does not have to infringe on the orriginal in any way at all....
I'm wrong..... It sounds like a answer from someone who uses splash hulls. Now the Stealth is a ground up design right? Or is it the ill fated Virage hull????
What I'm saying that a company that splashes has less money in R&D than a company that builds it from the ground up..... There are difference in Cat hulls that make them different. it's like saying every car with 4 wheels are the same. :wink:

[BoatFloating]

There you go Rocky, causing trouble again! :D
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:
Who me.....
:D just giving my views..... See ya Sat... ;)

[dicudmore]

I'm wrong..... It sounds like a answer from someone who uses splash hulls. Now the Stealth is a ground up design right? Or is it the ill fated Virage hull????
What I'm saying that a company that splashes has less money in R&D than a company that builds it from the ground up..... There are difference in Cat hulls that make them different. it's like saying every car with 4 wheels are the same. :wink:
just my $.02.... I don't think buying the virage mold is the same thing as a splash :wink:

[dicudmore]

What I'm saying that a company that splashes has less money in R&D than a company that builds it from the ground up..... There are difference in Cat hulls that make them different. it's like saying every car with 4 wheels are the same. :wink:
You mean kinda like the Force/Carrera/Whitsett debacle :confused:

[Froggystyle]

My .02 cents....
I met Dory, the owner of Domin8r at the SEMA show and thought he was really out to do a great job in this business and very well satisfy his end of the market. I think he is out to deliver amazing value from what I saw and would probably be a real consideration for me especially considering his pricing.
Like I said... my .02

[BoatFloating]

You mean kinda like the Force/Carrera/Whitsett debacle :confused:
You mean Carrera/Whitsett/Force....
:wink:

[dicudmore]

You mean Carrera/Whitsett/Force....
:wink:
no offense was intended by the order I listed them :D

[BoatFloating]

just my $.02.... I don't think buying the virage mold is the same thing as a splash :wink:
I agree but how many people now own the Virage hull???? Iknow Water Rod is another. My point was that it's cheaper in as a start up to buy a down mold or splash one.
My .02 cents....
I met Dory, the owner of Domin8r at the SEMA show and thought he was really out to do a great job in this business and very well satisfy his end of the market. I think he is out to deliver amazing value from what I saw and would probably be a real consideration for me especially considering his pricing.
Like I said... my .02
Wes, I agree. This has nothing to do with Domn8er or Stealth I think they are very nice boats and at a good price for the consumer. it has has to do with the whole Marine Industry. Wes I give you credit for getting involved in it. But tell me what happens if a year down the line someine splashes your boat and starts selling it for $30K cheaper?????
:2purples:

[LHC30Victory]

But tell me what happens if a year down the line someine splashes your boat and starts selling it for $30K cheaper?????
:2purples:
OOOOOHHHHHHH - I'd hate to have to pick up that mess :eek:
If they ever found it that is :cool:

[Froggystyle]

I agree but how many people now own the Virage hull???? Iknow Water Rod is another. My point was that it's cheaper in as a start up to buy a down mold or splash one.
Wes, I agree. This has nothing to do with Domn8er or Stealth I think they are very nice boats and at a good price for the consumer. it has has to do with the whole Marine Industry. Wes I give you credit for getting involved in it. But tell me what happens if a year down the line someine splashes your boat and starts selling it for $30K cheaper?????
:2purples:
I would advise them to find a great lawyer...

[Debbolas]

I would advise them to find a great lawyer...
Lawyer!! Dude.......you are a navy seal! You could just "take them out".......... ;)
LOL :D

[dicudmore]

I agree but how many people now own the Virage hull???? Iknow Water Rod is another. My point was that it's cheaper in as a start up to buy a down mold or splash one.
Water Rod, Genesis, Laser, Lightning (I think..)
It gets around :D
My understanding of the deal is that Cheetah/Stealth bought the mold, then sold copies to Laser and you know the rest...

[RiverOtter]

Kinda funny. I started this thread with a simple question and then GEEEZZZZZ http://midwestboatparty.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/WTF.gif

[dicudmore]

Kinda funny. I started this thread with a simple question and then GEEEZZZZZ http://midwestboatparty.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/WTF.gif
funny how these threads go sometimes eh?? :wink:

[RiverOtter]

funny how these threads go sometimes eh?? :wink:
It truely it http://midwestboatparty.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/food05.gif

[dicudmore]

It truely it http://midwestboatparty.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/food05.gif
that's a good smiley :wink:
and you know in reference to it, come on out here and we'll take care of the beer part :D

[RiverOtter]

that's a good smiley :wink:
and you know in reference to it, come on out here and we'll take care of the beer part :D
I really am working on the OP6 etc... thing :D

[Stealth Marine]

I agree but how many people now own the Virage hull???? Iknow Water Rod is another. My point was that it's cheaper in as a start up to buy a down mold or splash one.
Wes, I agree. This has nothing to do with Domn8er or Stealth I think they are very nice boats and at a good price for the consumer. it has has to do with the whole Marine Industry. Wes I give you credit for getting involved in it. But tell me what happens if a year down the line someine splashes your boat and starts selling it for $30K cheaper?????
:2purples:
TOOOO Many.
But a good part of that is our own damn fault!
So we have to live with out own mistakes.
Now, if someone takes a DIRECT splash, and then starts selling it, you go after them and try to shut them down.
But this is NOT what Domn8er did.
There hull bears darn little resemblance to the splash they made to build a new plug from.
If you have ever built a new plug from ground up you understand the huge investment of time and labor in just building up the basic forms BEFORE you start on the final shape and exact sizes. Sure, you can certainly build it 100% clean from ground up, but there isn't a whole lot of good reason to do it. It makes a LOT more sense to start out with the basic form/shape and then spend all your time and money on trimming and shapping and forming it to exactly what you want it to be.
I guess what it comes down to is that I would have no ethical issues in making a splash off someone else's hull, SO LONG AS I was just using it as a form to build up a whole new plug from. Not a copy with 5% alteration, but a genuenly new hull that used the previous splash as an inner core or mearly a starting point.
A "V" bottom or a "CAT" will always have certain basic similarities between all of them that can be used to facilitate moving the building process forward and not wasting money on re-inventing the wheel. But all of this only applies to basically simple hulls.

[unleashed]

In order to Splash, how much of the bottom has to be different?? Is it 10 percent??? Im curious to know if someone were to Splash Wes's Boat how much of the bottom would they have to change in order to win in a court of law??? Im pretty sure Dennis put an injunction on Force at one time??
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[BoatFloating]

Im pretty sure Dennis put an injunction on Force at one time??
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:
My understanding it's a 10% change.
Carrera settled out of court....... Hence the 29 Effect now.....
;)
If you have ever built a new plug from ground up you understand the huge investment of time and labor in just building up the basic forms BEFORE you start on the final shape and exact sizes. Sure, you can certainly build it 100% clean from ground up, but there isn't a whole lot of good reason to do it. It makes a LOT more sense to start out with the basic form/shape and then spend all your time and money on trimming and shapping and forming it to exactly what you want it to be.
I guess what it comes down to is that I would have no ethical issues in making a splash off someone else's hull, SO LONG AS I was just using it as a form to build up a whole new plug from. Not a copy with 5% alteration, but a genuenly new hull that used the previous splash as an inner core or mearly a starting point.
This is why there is 2 to 3 new boat companies a year.
I would advise them to find a great lawyer...
My point exactly. But it happens all the time what would be the difference????

[RACER52]

I do not own a Domin8or but have spent a day at the factory and seen first hand what part was original and what they used to actually get to 28ft. I would not call their deck boat or cat a splash.
In my opinion if someone needs clarification then they should spend the time to call one of the owners for some first hand info....
I think anyone would be impressed, unless its just cold outside and someone is trying to keep busy at the computer.
Just my 2cents

[gmocnik]

disclaimer: no real experience with IP in the boating industry.
Lots of experience with IP in the medical device industry....
the ONLY winners in an IP battle are the attorneys. very rarely does an IP battle end up with a significant win for the company claiming infringement. the most common outcome is that after signing monthly six figure checks to the law firm, both sides "agree" on a royalty or settlement position.
technology based industries have tradiitonally used IP and Regulatory approvals as barriers to entry in a specific market. the best IP defense is to develop and produce a superior product and let the marketplace be the battleground, not the court room.
just my two cents.
gm

[Ducatista]

Whats to prevent someone of makng a modified splash of the Trident boat after it comes out? I'm curious...because if it's sucessfull, it will happen would be my guess. How much would it have to be modifed by the new builder to escape any law suits? It seems a shame, especially after all the R&D the origional person/company has put into it. But if the boat is a hot seller, someone will take that good idea and try to make it better, or just different enough to call ther own and sell. Just seems to be the nature of the business, not that it's right. :confused:

[BoatFloating]

I do not own a Domin8or but have spent a day at the factory and seen first hand what part was original and what they used to actually get to 28ft. I would not call their deck boat or cat a splash.
In my opinion if someone needs clarification then they should spend the time to call one of the owners for some first hand info....
I think anyone would be impressed, unless its just cold outside and someone is trying to keep busy at the computer.
Just my 2cents
IMHO if you use another boat companies hull as a base to build your boat it's a splash of some sorts. To me it's a cheap way to start a new boat company. Look how much time and money Froggy has in their company and not 1 boat is on the water yet. They didn't take the easy road they wanted to be innovators.....
Again just my.02

[Froggystyle]

The only defense is adequate IP protection.
The 10% rule is a complete falacy. There is NOWHERE in IP law that has any description whatsoever of a percentage difference.
The only criteria is confusion. If confusion can be drawn, there is trademark infringement. This goes for appearance.
Fortunately for us, we are covered by utility patents as well. The side swimstep is bombproof. We are the first, and we specified it (roughly, as I don't want to make it too easy to attack for anyone looking) as a ratio of transom width/length. This protects us from basically any infringement on the side of the boat from the transom. The front ramp is protected big time in a way I will not describe. Our bottom is again protected on a ratio of width, so in order to have the type of bottom we have, you would infringe. Physics dictate the proportion to us, we protected it. It would be impossible to have a center sponson wide enough to hold a dual drive without infringing on our patent. In addition, percentage of waterline wet and dry play into it, as well as width of sponsons, height of tunnels and depth of hull. Our jogged styling line on the side is a protected item as well as 11 others I will not mention.
In short, if some communist tried to get a splash of my hull and build off of it I would own their soul. Plus, I would wait until they finished construction and capital outlay before I enforced it. Then, I would napalm it in front of them as I would own it outright (hence the 29 effect in Carreras case). I wouldn't build out of it like they did, I would destroy it with great vengeance and furious anger.

[Ducatista]

The only defense is adequate IP protection.
The 10% rule is a complete falacy. There is NOWHERE in IP law that has any description whatsoever of a percentage difference.
The only criteria is confusion. If confusion can be drawn, there is trademark infringement. This goes for appearance.
Fortunately for us, we are covered by utility patents as well. The side swimstep is bombproof. We are the first, and we specified it (roughly, as I don't want to make it too easy to attack for anyone looking) as a ratio of transom width/length. This protects us from basically any infringement on the side of the boat from the transom. The front ramp is protected big time in a way I will not describe. Our bottom is again protected on a ratio of width, so in order to have the type of bottom we have, you would infringe. Physics dictate the proportion to us, we protected it. It would be impossible to have a center sponson wide enough to hold a dual drive without infringing on our patent. In addition, percentage of waterline wet and dry play into it, as well as width of sponsons, height of tunnels and depth of hull. Our jogged styling line on the side is a protected item as well as 11 others I will not mention.
In short, if some communist tried to get a splash of my hull and build off of it I would own their soul. Plus, I would wait until they finished construction and capital outlay before I enforced it. Then, I would napalm it in front of them as I would own it outright (hence the 29 effect in Carreras case). I wouldn't build out of it like they did, I would destroy it with great vengeance and furious anger.
Well it certainly sounds like you have done the homework....I look forward to the finished product, and wish you the best of luck. The Trident sounds like quite a boat.....thanks for the info.

[unleashed]

I can't wait to see this boat. Its good that someone is doing something ORIGINAL! That takes alot of money and guts to do! Goodluck. To bad other manufacturers can't take the same steps!
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[bigkatboat]

Have you been getting 'paid' by the "Rinker Floatilla" people? They have been building a 'deck boat model' that has a "wrap around swimstep". It wraps around on the right (starboard) side, and has been in production for over four years. Is this where you are getting your "project $$$"? I do know that if your boat is copied, one of the first things the defendants will do, is show 'their design' won't fit in your molds. If their parts won't fit in your molds, it will be "up to you" to prove that they copied 'your designs'. I have seen this "test" first hand, and it is dramatic, for any jury. My father designed and built a complete custom car, back in 1952. It was in all of the magazines, shows, and even the 'star' on a TV show. The car had a "Hard Top" that automatically went into the trunk. Push a button, and it went up or down. He had all of it Patented, and Ford Motor Company found a way around all of the Patents. They made 'very minor' changes, and that is all it took. Over the past twenty years, or so, the "boat design community" has been 'taught to recognize' the "17 % rule". If a hull or deck design is different by "17 % or more", the boat is not a splash. From what I have encountered, and have read, this seems to ring true with the USA courts. The "17 %" refers to the surface area of the 'part'. 17 % of the deck surface, 17 % of the hull surface, and so on.

[DAB]

The only defense is adequate IP protection.
The 10% rule is a complete falacy. There is NOWHERE in IP law that has any description whatsoever of a percentage difference.
The only criteria is confusion. If confusion can be drawn, there is trademark infringement. This goes for appearance.
Fortunately for us, we are covered by utility patents as well. The side swimstep is bombproof. We are the first, and we specified it (roughly, as I don't want to make it too easy to attack for anyone looking) as a ratio of transom width/length. This protects us from basically any infringement on the side of the boat from the transom. The front ramp is protected big time in a way I will not describe. Our bottom is again protected on a ratio of width, so in order to have the type of bottom we have, you would infringe. Physics dictate the proportion to us, we protected it. It would be impossible to have a center sponson wide enough to hold a dual drive without infringing on our patent. In addition, percentage of waterline wet and dry play into it, as well as width of sponsons, height of tunnels and depth of hull. Our jogged styling line on the side is a protected item as well as 11 others I will not mention.
Wes, have the patents been approved or are you still going through the process? Also, is the hull in process with the Copyright Office? The only reason I ask is that I'd like to read the text for the items you've protected. Looking forward to seeing them..

[DAB]

Have you been getting 'paid' by the "Rinker Floatilla" people? They have been building a 'deck boat model' that has a "wrap around swimstep". It wraps around on the right (starboard) side, and has been in production for over four years. Is this where you are getting your "project $$$"? Wes, is yours specific to the left side?

[shockwavebd]

so what's the latest..........................

[DAB]

Hello....Trident, are you out there.... :mix:

[Froggystyle]

Ours is in application currently. It will be for some time. There are very key and non-obvious differences between our design and others.
BTW, on the "fitting the mold" question... it goes the other way as well. If your design can fit in their mold, you can easily win as well. It is done this way to prevent the easy re-tool of a slightly larger product, which is merely bondo on the splash, and call it a day.
There is no percentage rule. Period. It is purely up to what the specifics of the patent stipulate. It is one reason I will not go into any detail whatsoever about the specifics of the patent applications.
We have several ironclad trademarks and copyrights however that have been issued. We are waiting, and will be for some time on the utility patents which can take many years when they are as complex as ours are.
And remember, the most important single thing is prior use. Nothing trumps it.

[DAB]

And remember, the most important single thing is prior use. Nothing trumps it.
Wes, there's alot of cool things that you've incorporated into your design... can't wait to eventually read the front platform patent, there's prior artwork that goes back quite a few years. Good luck with everything.

[bigkatboat]

There is no rule on the death penalty, PERIOD! But some go down and others don't! "Specifics" don't mean a thing from 50' away! Some boats have the 'side swim step on the left, and some on the right', so what is your final statement? Is it YOUR IDEA, or someone elses? I hope you do well, but I get the feeling you are 'selling us', and you don't have a boat in the water to make sure that your (combined) designs, and ideas will work as depicted. I can tell you from over 30 years in this (west coast) business, if your boat designs are worth a shit, they will be copied. You and your lawyers will be very busy trying to 'catch' the thieves. If you are busy selling your boats, you won't have time to 'track down' the thieves, and if not....? Good luck, I've introduced boat designs before their times and suffered, then again some of them were copied a few years later and I still cashed in. If you think swiming under water for many miles as a 'frogman' was tough, you haven't been in the west coast boat building business! Here you do it without the air tanks!!!

[Froggystyle]

There is no rule on the death penalty, PERIOD! But some go down and others don't! "Specifics" don't mean a thing from 50' away! Some boats have the 'side swim step on the left, and some on the right', so what is your final statement? Is it YOUR IDEA, or someone elses? I hope you do well, but I get the feeling you are 'selling us', and you don't have a boat in the water to make sure that your (combined) designs, and ideas will work as depicted. I can tell you from over 30 years in this (west coast) business, if your boat designs are worth a shit, they will be copied. You and your lawyers will be very busy trying to 'catch' the thieves. If you are busy selling your boats, you won't have time to 'track down' the thieves, and if not....? Good luck, I've introduced boat designs before their times and suffered, then again some of them were copied a few years later and I still cashed in. If you think swiming under water for many miles as a 'frogman' was tough, you haven't been in the west coast boat building business! Here you do it without the air tanks!!!
The West Coast boat building juggernaut has no idea what is in store for them if they splash me. This I promise you.
Splashing is no longer "Business as usual". I don't need to track down anyone. Any infringement will amount to a quick cease and desist, a lawsuit and a judgement. Probably lots of damages as well. The penalty for splashing me will absolutely not be worth the sales gained.
I don't know what boats you have participated in that may or may not have been splashed, but I have not seen a particularly large amount of innovation on hull design in years. For someone who has been so vocally derisive with regard to Trident for the last several years in nearly every post you have made, you sure are paying close attention.
I would like to say from my heart I cannot wait to start building boats.

[bigkatboat]

It has been MONTHS! NOT YEARS! Don't try to make it bigger than it is. I hope you do make it! But if you are going to have monster prices, (like all the others), and start at $100K for a single engine boat, then count me out for any moral support (like you need it with all of the ass kissers around here). Boats are getting way too costly and it's not all liability insurance! By the way, I am still not happy about the way you responded in the Jeff Blosdale thread. If you are so smart, then why didn't you word your post with more 'feeling' and less SPAMMING? I read all of your "ass kisser's" posts and they pretty much still missed the point. What you do can only be good for the boating industry (on a whole), how you REALLY deal with the "thinkers" and "ass kissers" that follow you, is how you will be portrayed in this industry. We have all heard about how "Joe Blow boat builder" was a "so and so", and ripped people off. Was it really true, or just an other person's perception of the true facts. As a 'small fish', swimming up stream against all of the 'ass kissers' that seem to follow you, I can only say that I am happy knowing that I am a small thorn in your side, and I might be causing you to think a 'little more' about the boating public, and not just "the bottom line", when you build your boats. Good luck, and stay true to your goals.

[Froggystyle]

You are truly gifted in your delusions.
I am not sure what you would consider overpriced, but we will be greatly exceeding the 100,000 number. Even more importantly, we will be delivering value far in excess of whatever is paid.
You are not the boating public. You are a bitter person with some agenda to fulfill that none of us quite understand. Are you a boat builder? Are you worried?
I would be..

[DAB]

As I recall it was upwards of 140K :squiggle:

[BoatFloating]

I wish the haters would just stop f**king tip toeing around and just come out and tell us what the hell your agenda is....... Because it's pretty clear to me....

[DAB]

I wish the haters would just stop f**king tip toeing around and just come out and tell us what the hell your agenda is....... Because it's pretty clear to me....
BF, are you directing this to the last post, or the previous post by bigkatboat?

[BoatFloating]

BF, are you directing this to the last post, or the previous post by bigkatboat?
Not you.......
;)

[AleAlchemist]

My understanding it's a 10% change.
Carrera settled out of court....... Hence the 29 Effect now.....
;)
This is why there is 2 to 3 new boat companies a year.
My point exactly. But it happens all the time what would be the difference????
1.
If you want to get technical about it...
A hull design- measurements and style can be identical, so long as the manufactor can prove that he build it from scratch.
If someone wanted to start building force or even eliminator daytonas...
So long as you dont use a bare hull as a start, you could build the hull out of wood, and begin production.
2. Im not supposed to say but the pecking order for the Virage hull is not quite right on the first page, but Im not to worried.

[Froggystyle]

1.
If you want to get technical about it...
A hull design- measurements and style can be identical, so long as the manufactor can prove that he build it from scratch.
If someone wanted to start building force or even eliminator daytonas...
So long as you dont use a bare hull as a start, you could build the hull out of wood, and begin production.
100% False. Whoever gave you that little pearl of BS was trying to help you get sued. That statement has exactly nothing to do with IP protection in the most abstract of imaginary cases.
You can rip someone off if you start from scratch??? Please...

[RiverOtter]

Dam! http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/ubb/graemlins/headscratch.gif The thread that won't die :D

[Sigus]

so how about those dodgers.........