Mercury 600sci vs. Ilmor M-V10 625

[Luki]

Hi everyone,
After thinking about buying a Deckboat (E-Ticket, Howard, Hallett, Eliminator) and combining the engines i decided now finally to buy the Howard Sport Deck with the 600sci.
The Ilmor seams to be a reliable engine, but they still haven't run it for hundreds of hours on the water, so there is no longterm knowledge about this V10.
What do you guys think about it?

[SDLifesaver]

Great choice. What is the price difference between the Illmor and the 600SC?

[TPI]

I think you picked a great combination. It will exceed your expectations. Have fun.

[dicudmore]

I think you'll be more than happy with that choice...
Howard builds one hell of a boat. Got to see SDLifesavers boat a week or so ago in Havi, just awesome!
I personally would go Ilmor or even 525 before I went 600SCI but thats just me. Depending what part of the world you're in service options on the Ilmor might be limited. Whatever you wind up doing, its gonna be a nice package and run real well, congrats :D

[MR HARLEY]

Welcome aboard!!
IMHO I would go with the Ilmore :cool:

[Fast Freddy]

a V-10 weighs less than a iron BIG block V-8. the V-10 has aluminum block and heads. put a blower on a V-8 and the V-10 now weighs way less. the V-10 has lots of torque and can be revved high. my viper has a V-10 and i am making 625 hp & 675 torque on 91 octane with 488 cubic inches at 9.8:1 compression ratio. the ilmore V-10 has 505 cubic inches. V-10's can be bored and stoked to 600 cubic inches now. at 600 cubic inches on 91 octane you will make 750 hp. jack the compression up to 12:1 and run 100 octane and you will be looking at 850 hp. you can also supercharge the ilmore engine and make 1000 hp on 100 octane gas. if you go twin turbo 1200 hp is attainable on 100 octane gas as well. of course with 120 octane gas twin turbo V-10's have made 2,000 hp with 20 lbs of boost

[CBadDad]

Holy shit Fast Freddie, those are some serious numbers!!!

[mondorally]

What are the dimensions of the V-10 versus a SBC & BBC? I checked on the Ilmor site with no luck.
Thanks
Justin

[STV_Keith]

Actually, the V10 can even make more than that. A local Viper that I drive makes 1546 at the wheels. Dyno Video (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-dyno.wmv). Not bad for a street driver. We've already had some fun with it. Playing around... (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-viper.wmv).
Be cool to see a TT V10 in a boat. :)

[NashvilleBound]

a V-10 weighs less than a iron BIG block V-8. the V-10 has aluminum block and heads. put a blower on a V-8 and the V-10 now weighs way less. the V-10 has lots of torque and can be revved high. my viper has a V-10 and i am making 625 hp & 675 torque on 91 octane with 488 cubic inches at 9.8:1 compression ratio. the ilmore V-10 has 505 cubic inches. V-10's can be bored and stoked to 600 cubic inches now. at 600 cubic inches on 91 octane you will make 750 hp. jack the compression up to 12:1 and run 100 octane and you will be looking at 850 hp. you can also supercharge the ilmore engine and make 1000 hp on 100 octane gas. if you go twin turbo 1200 hp is attainable on 100 octane gas as well. of course with 120 octane gas twin turbo V-10's have made 2,000 hp with 20 lbs of boost
Only problem with the twin turbo...which is what I was after.... is the $40,000 price tag. Other than that i would be totally good with it.

[Riverat84]

Actually, the V10 can even make more than that. A local Viper that I drive makes 1546 at the wheels. Dyno Video (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-dyno.wmv). Not bad for a street driver. We've already had some fun with it. Playing around... (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-viper.wmv).
Be cool to see a TT V10 in a boat. :)
my god is that a sick movie! i loved that!
Reid

[INSman]

The new Merc 700, although pricey, would have been a great solution as the 600's were supposed to be on the light HP side versus the 700's being on the heavier side of HP.

[Luki]

Thank you folks.
I think my choice is good, even if in June/July Advantage comes with a very interesting Deckboat in 30'...
The V10 might be fine on the road, but as I said; This motor is not enough proven now on the water.
I will do about 6 hrs per day with the Sport Deck (Business on the Sea) so I can not go with a risk that the engines blows after 20 or 50 hrs...the other thing is that this Marine V10 has not the certification yet in Europe.
Even if I am not a fan of blowed engines, Mercury Racing seems to know what they are doing...aren't they...?
The 700sci is 200pounds haevier than the 600sci, thats too much and too much costs for it...

[ZBODaytona]

I think your wrong about the running of the v10. The 550 V10 has been run a lot in the boats, I know of the orginal test boat and it has over 200hrs on it. (my friend owns it) Illmor has been great to him, and they have great support. They also tested the motor on a dyno at full stress for 300hrs. The 650 only has minor changes over the 550. I know of two guys that did the upgrade last year and have been trouble free on the four motors for a year now. I would also prefer a non supercharged engine. just my .02 worth

[Blacksheep]

I think your wrong about the running of the v10. The 550 V10 has been run a lot in the boats, I know of the orginal test boat and it has over 200hrs on it. (my friend owns it) Illmor has been great to him, and they have great support. They also tested the motor on a dyno at full stress for 300hrs. The 650 only has minor changes over the 550. I know of two guys that did the upgrade last year and have been trouble free on the four motors for a year now. I would also prefer a non supercharged engine. just my .02 worth
I agree with you. The 550's have been out for several years now and while the 625 is relatively new, it still based on the same package. In my opinion there is no comparison to the power to weight ratio versus the big block V8. Ilmor has awesome support. I also believe they do get better fuel ecomony if that is important to you. I had a sensor problem last year on mine, and their head tech, Ian Hawkins, came out to the lake to test my boat. Does Mercury do that?? Needless to say that is the only problem I had and it has been corrected. It runs like a champ! It's rare to even get a local tech to come out and do that. I'll call Ian or Bob Mason their sales manager at the drop of hat and they will bend over backwards to help their customers. My opinion hands down would be go with the Ilmor. Just my .02!
Plus you can't beat the V-10 sound!!! :220v:

[ZBODaytona]

i know the 550 is supposed to better on fuel than the 525, but I am not sure about the 650. I am pretty sure it would better than the 600. Yes those illmor guys stand up for their product, and they sound cool too.

[MR HARLEY]

The Viper V-10 625 is
40% more fuel effcient ,
300lbs less than a big block V8, even more with a blower
600ft/lbs of torque already @4700 rpm.
625Hp@5800rpm
We have a (Single) V10-Viper625 in our boat, I cant say enough great things about this motor, from the sound, to the way it idles around docks, to going through the mid-range of the motor to flat out W.O.T is just amazing! I get more impressed from the motor each time out, plus 85mph in a 29' boat with a 26 pitch is not to shabby :)
We have ran ours for 26 hours since takeing delivery in February of this year, and have only one miniscule error ..........a Sensor :rollside: We had the sensor replaced and was given nothing but the best customer service from Kelly and the crew @ Savage Marine in LHC during the process.
We are out again this weekend to run her if your around stop on by.
What I do like most of all though its a turn-key motor with no blower :)

[Hardly Satisfied]

WELCOME ABOARD , Craig said it right , his 29 DCB runs Sweet . I went for a ride in it before.On the other hand I see what you are thinking , Mercury has been around a long time . those motors are all hand built

[MR HARLEY]

WELCOME ABOARD , Craig said it right , his 29 DCB runs Sweet . I went for a ride in it before.On the other hand I see what you are thinking , Mercury has been around a long time . those motors are all hand built
Thanks Ed, when ya coming out again. :cool:
Alittle head to head stat comparison on both engines.
~Merc600~
HP 600
Full Throttle RPM Range: 4800-5200
Displacement Liter/CID 8.2/502
Bore & Stroke (in) 4.47 x 4.00
Bore & Stroke (mm) 113 x 102
Compression Ratio 7.50:1
Cylinders V-8
Weight 1,267lbs
~Viper V-10 625~
Power: 625 BHP @ 5,800 RPM
Torque: 600 ft lb @ 4,700 RPM
Full Throttle RPM Range: 5,400 - 6,000 RPM
Engine Configuration: 90 degree V10
Capacity: 505 ci (8.3 liters)
Bore & Stroke: 4.030 in / 3.960 in
Compression Ratio: 9.6 to 1
Fuel Requirement: 92 (R+M) / 2
Closed Cooling: Standard
Knock Control: Standard
Total Weight: 800 lbs*
*Dry weight including CMI Headers

[XFactor]

I would personally prefer the Ilmor. I think its proven and performance to weight ratio is better than the Merc 600.
The only drawback with the V10 is additional length. You'll lose approx 4"-6" in the passenger area. I think that kind of cramps the Howard cab area. Ask Gene. I think he's reluctant becuase of the loss of space.

[mondorally]

I would personally prefer the Ilmor. I think its proven and performance to weight ratio is better than the Merc 600.
The only drawback with the V10 is additional length. You'll lose approx 4"-6" in the passenger area. I think that kind of cramps the Howard cab area. Ask Gene. I think he's reluctant becuase of the loss of space.
Do you happen to have the actual dimensions? I'm most interested in the width with the CMI's.
Thanks
Justin

[XFactor]

No I don't. I spoke with a builder at the L.A. show and they stated they didn't like building with the V10's becuase of the length.
Sorry.

[NashvilleBound]

Personally I think the Ilmor is the way to go. Obviousely cuz I picked it over the 900 for my Magic. I did have a problem with my 625 but Ilmor took care of it right away....and is still handling it.

[MR HARLEY]

Do you happen to have the actual dimensions? I'm most interested in the width with the CMI's.
Thanks
Justin
Justin,
Whats your email I have the specs on a pdf file that I can email you with.

[mondorally]

Justin,
Whats your email I have the specs on a pdf file that I can email you with.
Sent you a PM. Thanks!
Justin

[MR HARLEY]

Sent you a PM. Thanks!
Justin
You have mail :)

[Not So Fast]

Actually, the V10 can even make more than that. A local Viper that I drive makes 1546 at the wheels. Dyno Video (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-dyno.wmv). Not bad for a street driver. We've already had some fun with it. Playing around... (http://www.speedcraving.com/extreme/viper/garths-viper.wmv).
Be cool to see a TT V10 in a boat. :)
Videos are in my folders right now, awesome sound especially on the dyno :D Big time HP!!! NSF

[Luki]

200hrs is nothing...
I will run about 180hrs a month with my business.
In the U.S. the V10 Ilmor might be a good choice because all the support, but in Europe there is nothing for it, even not a certification.
The sound is great and the power to weight ratio is good too, but thats not enough to decide to buy this engine, for me...
My Engine will be the 600sci or maybe even the 700sci, and then when Ilmor runned about 1000hrs or more with the 625 I will consider it as an option for the next or second boat.

[dr. margarita]

Given that information Luki, I wouldn't run either the Merc 600 or the Ilmor.
The Merc 600 is not as dialed in as you think it is. I've heard from some very knowledgeable people that with any high powered motor, the Merc 600 still needs tweeking. The early 525's went through the same process. That motor is really dialed in now. 180 hours per month??? Based on Merc's service requirements, that's three to four scheduled maintenance services per month!!! I strongly suggest that you confer thoroughly with the Willens and get their power recommendation for that kind of extreme use. Good luck! You'll love the Howard!

[dicudmore]

Given that information Luki, I wouldn't run either the Merc 600 or the Ilmor.
The Merc 600 is not as dialed in as you think it is. I've heard from some very knowledgeable people that with any high powered motor, the Merc 600 still needs tweeking. The early 525's went through the same process. That motor is really dialed in now. 180 hours per month??? Based on Merc's service requirements, that's three to four scheduled maintenance services per month!!! I strongly suggest that you confer thoroughly with the Willens and get their power recommendation for that kind of extreme use. Good luck! You'll love the Howard!
I second what Tom is saying here...
You should be thinking DIESEL or something like that for that kind of hours.

[Chromegorilla]

Honestly if you really are going to put those type of hour on a motor a month, you need to be thinking of some Yanmar 440's or some outboards. Neither the Merc nor the Ilmor would be prudent.

[dr. margarita]

you need to be thinking of some Yanmar 440's.
There ya go!!! Yanmar has a strong worldwide presence.

[Luki]

I will run a business with driving people arround the sea...
And I think the problem is not the hours...
For an engine it is more a problem to run cold, then maybe half an hour, then shutting down the engine, Party, then again starting the engine and cold running...
When I will start the engines in the morning, they will be running the whole day. 45mins with about 3500-4000 rpms, about 2 Mins full throttle, then about 15mins idle, then again the whole process. Thats the best what an engine can get with driving.
I will have a look to see what this Yanmar is, I don't know this engine.

[Chromegorilla]

Yanmar make some of the best diesel engines in the world. They just plain run forever. There was a beautifull 50' Hustler with triple Yanmars that ran pretty damn fast at the Miami boat show this year. I'll see if I can dig up some pics.
I know that a 388 Slingshot (a 38' Hustler) with twin the older 420HP Yanmars and arnesons ran over 80 MPH.

[Luki]

The Yanmars are good yes.
But with a pair of about 350hp engines the weight is about the same as twin HO's and the top-End will be about 65mph.
If I go with a big one with about 700hp it weighs about 1,2tonnes and I will still not have more than 70mph (with a few people) and the price will be much higher then with twin HO's.
So I think twin HO's is the best thing I can have for a good price and this performance.

[steet]

I would not go with any HP product and put on the kind of hrs that you are talking about. All the HP products use hydraulic roller cams and I would not run them over 300 hrs without a top in overhaul. The lifters nor the valve springs on HP engines can take this kind of usage.
With 180 hrs per month and I assume 12 months a year, the diesel is the only choice

[Luki]

Even if I run them 90% of time with 3500rpms? I don't think that it will be a problem in 4 month and about 700 hrs total.