Real estate fraud..

[Bad2DBone]

I don't know many people here but I have got the feeling from seeing some posts that there are more then a few peeps here that deal in real estate in one form or the other so I figured I would see what you guys/gals thought of this little diddy.
I'll try to keep this short and not get to carried away with useless crap plus I'm sure I got names/titles wrong but I hope you can get the jist.
Back in October we bought a new house and didn't have time to sell our old one so we found an agent to sell ours. Things seemed ok from the begining till we found a buyer and accepted a bid. We agreed on $295 but we were a little concered when we got a promisary note instead of a ernest check. We have a friend that works for WaMu as a loan agent( or something like that) and she likes to help us keep track of whats going on.
The promisary note really miffed her as it made it look like thses people had no money but our agent said we had nothing to worry about. WRONG.....
So needless to say things started going downhill fast.
We were supposed to sign on Dec 20th.
We never got a letter of commitment nor did we ever find out if the "note" got turned into ernest money. My wife asked our agent numerous times about both these issues but we always got the run around.
Well the 20th came and we found out that the Docs were still at the finance joint...Country Wide...
So we were going to need to file an extension.
Our friend smelled something fishy and called Counrty Wide and tried to find out what was up. They told her it was held up for a few reasons... One of them was that the apprasial came in low. She was a little shocked so she asked how low. The CW officer said $312 and that since we were asking $315 they needed to get that worked out. She asked if she could get a copy of the papers faxed to her.. No problem... Sure as shit she got a copy and the line were we had $295 wrote out was scrathed out and $315 was writted down and our initials were signed right FN next to it.
Well this pissed off our friend and she immediatly called us.
she then got the name of the escrow company and talked to them. They also sent her a fax of the contract. It said $295.
my wife then called and asked for a HUD settlement and it was at $315.
WTF.
So we knew someone was looking to get some extra cash from country wide than divvy it up between them. but we didn't know who.
Our friend then called counrty wide a few days latter and all was fine now as the seller changed the selling price to $312 to match the apprasial. Again with our initials on it.
Now jump to the signing...
Things went to shit real fast when we asked who was getting the extra $17K more then the selling price. :2purples:
We got yelled at and told to leave the office immediatly. but not before we stired the pot. We asked our selling agent to be at the signing with us. She was shocked and said she new nothing about it. she then showed us the paper work she had and sure as shit on page 2 it said selling price...$312. She almost shit and said she new nothing. Yeah right.
Almost done....
Now skip to our selling agents broker, he still tried to get us to sign fraudulent docs saying we still had a valid buyer and that this is done sometimes so the buyer can get a better rate. Yeah but don't we needto know about it and how in the F can they just put our initials all over the place. Again WTF! The broker then called the buyers agents/broker andthey confessed to the cut/paste of our initials but hadsome dumbass excuse as to why they did it. We asked to get out of our contract and give us our ernest money. well needless to say he said there was no ernest money and we would get nothing unless it was written down and fro ma lawyer. Well this cock bite then assumed it was over I guess as he treated us like dirt.
We called a real estate lawyer, supposedly one of the best in Seattle, he said we had a very good case and would work with us for a nice sum of $250.00/HR. Pro bono of the year (http://www.kcba.org/barbulletin/0406/article5.html)
So we see him today. :cool:
Anyone ever see a deal like this...

[Mandelon]

Those folks have been reading some of those late night info-mercial books on how to get rich in real estate. How to buy with no money down, and get cash at closing.
Fire your agent and let her broker know. Bust the other broker with whatever Washington has as a Dept of R.E. and let the lawyers have at it. If the contract specified a deposit, you ought to be entitled to it.
At least you know your house is worth $312,000 not $295,000, another smack for the agent who underpriced it and left that much $$$$ on the table.
It could have been worse, at least you are only out a few bucks and some time.....and not a ton of $$$$$$ too.

[Bad2DBone]

We contacted the licensing agency in Olympia and the NWMLA and they are going after the Escrow and buying agent who forged our signatures. Our lawyer is on the heels of our agents broker. So hopefully this shit never happens to any one else.
But your right, we could of never found out and got screwed severly. :argue:

[callbob4homes]

WOW! that is amazing. I am an agent and I have never seen that. If I was your agent I would have taken that to the ethics board immediatly if not sooner. and cancelled the contract. not to mention NEVER have taken a note in place of an earnest deposit in the form of at least a personal check. That is fraud on the part of the buying side the way I read this and not knowing Wash. RE laws, I would still think you are due some compensation. Sad to say there is still some dishonest people in this business, as everywhere. In Arizona, you could lose your lic and be fined a large sum of money for falsifiying paperwork. for any reason. I know a broker in Havasu that is a crooked f@cker that gets away with sh!t because the fat ass knows most people won't get a lawyer. screwed me out of a couple of commissions on about a million dollars for 2 properties. and one of the buyers helped him do it. So it is not always the property owner that gets the shaft. scumbags are everywhere, if you have concerns, let your agent know and if they try to blow you off, fire em and get someone who will work for you. good luck :burningm: :mad:

[bigd1]

Didn't you post about this back when they made the offer and you thought it smelled fishy? Guess you were right. Don't ever trust the agent - they are working on commission and want the deal to go through. It's worth the money to have an attorney review everything along the way.

[callbob4homes]

oh nice post^ hate to break it to you budro, but some of us are ethical and some of us actually look out for our clients interests because we build our business on referrals. referrals don't come to you when you screw people around. Like I said above, if your agent isn't looking out for your best interests..............FIRE 'EM. and as a side note, there are a few people out there not buyer or seller savvy, that need a good agent to walk them through the process. Unfortunatly, there are those that think they know everything and f@ck up the deal by NOT listening to their agent. Those are the ones I walk away from. :rolleyes:

[haulina29]

Other than the fact you may have owed a few more dollars in taxes if you had not lived in it for two years I would have let it go . As long as your got what you wanted who cares what the buyer and his lender do they may have been trying to cover closing costs ? Its not worth paying a laywer @ $ 250 per hour to get screwed . Take the money and run . They should have asked you if it was ok to do this first but really who cares who gets the xtra money as long as you got what you wanted ? By the way this happens all the time but usually the seller is notified first .

[callbob4homes]

Other than the fact you may have owed a few more dollars in taxes if you had not lived in it for two years I would have let it go . As long as your got what you wanted who cares what the buyer and his lender do they may have been trying to cover closing costs ? Its not worth paying a laywer @ $ 250 per hour to get screwed . Take the money and run . They should have asked you if it was ok to do this first but really who cares who gets the xtra money as long as you got what you wanted ? By the way this happens all the time but usually the seller is notified first .
this is true except for the fact you cannot forge signatures or change the contract after the fact. adding on to cover closing costs is a standard practice IF it is disclosed up front and in the original contract. The only problem you would run into is if it bumps the house higher than the appraisal. We run into that alot over here now because of the hot sellers market. If the buyer is putting enough down or willing to buy down the appraisal, (more cash up front) no problemo. Under no circumstance I am aware of, do you change the contract AFTER it has been signed and accepted by both parties. and this probably comes under the RESPA act for not disclosing who is getting the extra money.

[Dave C]

Call the district attorney's office too. In Kaliefornia they have consumer affairs offices. Don't know about washington.
That is Fraud. They like to know who is committing crimes in their jurisdiction.

[bigd1]

oh nice post^ hate to break it to you budro, but some of us are ethical and some of us actually look out for our clients interests because we build our business on referrals. referrals don't come to you when you screw people around. Like I said above, if your agent isn't looking out for your best interests..............FIRE 'EM. and as a side note, there are a few people out there not buyer or seller savvy, that need a good agent to walk them through the process. Unfortunatly, there are those that think they know everything and f@ck up the deal by NOT listening to their agent. Those are the ones I walk away from. :rolleyes:
I didn't mean to call you or anyone out. I'm just saying that I've been involved in several "deals gone bad" and it's worth the money to have an attorney verify the transaction up front. And yes the right person makes all the difference.

[Mr.Havasu]

Sounds like real estate fraud to me as well. I wouldn't spend too much time with lawyers if I were you, you probably won't get much more than the amount of earnest money. The lawyer fees will eat that up in a hurry. I would file a complaint with the DA and let them spend the money prosecuting. Cut bait and put your property back on the market for $312K with an agent that bothers to read the signed contract in her file and escrow instructions.
Sorry you had this experience, if it had been handle differently upfront it could have been a legitimate transaction.

[cdog]

It's sad but it happens alot. I'm an agent for re/max in OC and a lot of people consider themselfs real estate pro's and don't know jack. Good agents some times are hard to find. I have been screwed three this year by sellers who's story's changed as escrow got closer to closing. Thank god for good paper trails and emails.
It sounds like your home was priced right to sell now. Good job for being reasonable with that. I like to price homes to sell now and not three month's from now with price ranges. Your more likely to have legal problems when a buyer feels like they were screwed. In CA 3/4 of court cases side with the buyers that play the victim.
You should have a copy of your origional purchase contract. That is your proof of your agreement on sales price and terms. If that is modified or forged without your knowledge that is fraud. The hard part now is proving it.
If you need to sell I would call the broker on both sides and try to work it out. Find out if they need the cash out to close. Get creative and agree to the new terms for greater compensation. I'd tell the buyer side broker to cut their commision to half of what it is now because of the fraud and go on vacation when all of this is done. Good Luck!

[cjordan]

There are a bunch of people going to jail and paying big fines around here for exactly what you are talking about....appraisers, mortgage brokers, investors, and agents...........Carleton Sheets probably failed to mention that aspect of "cash at closing" :notam: :rolleyes:

[callbob4homes]

I didn't mean to call you or anyone out. I'm just saying that I've been involved in several "deals gone bad" and it's worth the money to have an attorney verify the transaction up front. And yes the right person makes all the difference.
no problem, sometimes when you work hard to do right by people and be ethical, it grates on me to hear of assholes like this. Not going to bag on attorneys, (god knows I don't want to open that up) but if in doubt, go with your agent to have their broker go over the contract as well. The broker is responsible for the licensee. Like Michele said, you can spend alot of money with an attorney and not get anything back after you pay his fees. and one other side note, there are alot of agents out there that will work for you really cheap, but will it be worth it? call around, call the local board of REALTORS, get references. do YOUR homework and pay attention to what is going on and ask questions if you don't understand something, don't wait until you go sign the settlement sheet. whewww, ok off soapbox, back to work. :coffeycup

[Cas]

The problem here really isn't the amount as that is being borrowed, that's on the buyers. The problem is forgery. As CallBob4homes has said, once the contract is signed, it's just that, a binding contract. Unless the buyer and seller sign an addendum or write up a new contract, the original is what has been agreed upon.
I've bought and sold many homes over the years. On almost all the purchases I've borrowed more than needed so I had some cash for closing costs and/or repairs. Everything was always disclosed up front and signed by all parties involved.
The 4th house I ever purchased was with 0 money down and even got $15K back upon closing back in 1985. The financing end of it was legal and very creative but everyone involved knew exactly what was going on.
Again, as CallBob said, if your agent is not looking out for your best interest, get rid of them fast and find someone that will.

[cdog]

no problem, sometimes when you work hard to do right by people and be ethical, it grates on me to hear of assholes like this. Not going to bag on attorneys, (god knows I don't want to open that up) but if in doubt, go with your agent to have their broker go over the contract as well. The broker is responsible for the licensee. Like Michele said, you can spend alot of money with an attorney and not get anything back after you pay his fees. and one other side note, there are alot of agents out there that will work for you really cheap, but will it be worth it? call around, call the local board of REALTORS, get references. do YOUR homework and pay attention to what is going on and ask questions if you don't understand something, don't wait until you go sign the settlement sheet. whewww, ok off soapbox, back to work. :coffeycup
Well said.
You get what you pay for. If you pay Kmart prices you get Kmart quality.
You never know if you have a bad agent untill it's too late. Refferals, testomonials and interviewing agent's are key to getting the right agent.

[al cole'holic]

...sounds like a typical transaction here in the SFV. Gotta love 'pro-bono' real estate attorney's :mix:

[Dribble]

File a complaint against your agent with the Department of Real Estate. This person did not represent your interests at all.
www.dre.cahwnet.gov

[cdog]

File a complaint against your agent with the Department of Real Estate. This person did not represent your interests at all.
www.dre.cahwnet.gov
He's in Washington State. The DRE take's it with a grain of salt due to the one side'd nature of the commets. If your serious you'll call a lawyer or meet with the brokers.

[bigd1]

I don't particularly like lawyers either but I've learned through experience it's better to pay someone to look out for your interests than depend on someone to do the right thing because they are an ethical and honest person. I've seen ethics and honesty get bought off too many times.
Hey cjordan - I'm the guy who bought your motor.
--- Bob

[totenhosen]

You should also contact whatever local real estate board that they are members of. Make sure they get booted or on probation from them as well.

[callbob4homes]

ok one last shot at this..............now I know I don't have both sides to this story and only going by the posted version, but from what is being said here, and any other RE agents or brokers feel free to correct, #1 the contract has been forged........big no no. #2 your agent did not use due diligence in performing his/her duties (not reading the contract) big no no. My suggestion is this ( and not sure how it works in your state so could be wrong)......get your agent and his broker, the buying agent and his broker into a meeting. ask who forged the changing of the contract and why your agent is blowing it off. There are some potentially damaging stuff here. When the finger pointing stops, I would almost bet you can get both to drop their commissions and get your price. Reason being, if you were to take them to court or getting a ruling from DRE or even the local board, someone could lose their lic over this. and get a hefty fine. They might be willing to forgo all commissions and push it under the rug on your terms. just a thought

[C-2]

Bizzare.
You sure there were actually bona-fide buyers?

[Desert Rat]

Hey cjordon
Is that Lyle Sheltons Rare Bear in your Avatar?? Watched him race at Reno many a years!! LOVE the sound of those big round motors!! The inlines aren't bad either..... Sorry for the short jacking
PS the 3 bladed prop is cool

[Desert Rat]

Damn and that was post #800.... Look out JBR i'm on your heals :sqeyes:

[cjordan]

Hey cjordon
Is that Lyle Sheltons Rare Bear in your Avatar?? Watched him race at Reno many a years!! LOVE the sound of those big round motors!! The inlines aren't bad either..... Sorry for the short jacking
PS the 3 bladed prop is cool
You know your air racers......I've been to lots of motorsports races and nothing comes even close to how cool Reno is.... ;)
ps. the 3 blader is the secret as to why that plane is so fast....The round motors are the coolest IMO, but boy are they at a disadvantage aerodynamically turning 500+ mph laps, compared to the V-12's.

[Bad2DBone]

Take the money and run . They should have asked you if it was ok to do this first but really who cares who gets the xtra money as long as you got what you wanted ? By the way this happens all the time but usually the seller is notified first .
Um, wouldn't that mean I was giving my AOK to go ahead and forge our signatures and I would not be apart of their little fraud deal. I'm not to big on some one screwing me and then signing off on it just so we can move on. I would rather keep making 2 house payments then sell my house fraudulently while some scrum bag makes off with $17K.
Sounds like real estate fraud to me as well. I wouldn't spend too much time with lawyers if I were you, you probably won't get much more than the amount of earnest money. The lawyer fees will eat that up in a hurry. I would file a complaint with the DA and let them spend the money prosecuting. Cut bait and put your property back on the market for $312K with an agent that bothers to read the signed contract in her file and escrow instructions.
Sorry you had this experience, if it had been handle differently upfront it could have been a legitimate transaction.
I'm to the point where I would be willing to spend some money on a lawyer to get some money back even if it's a small ammount. Our agents broker talked down to us like we we beneeth him and that we just needed to get out of his office. He made it clear that if we wanted to get anything from him we were going to need to get a lawyer. He was probably under the assumption that since we are paying on 2 houses that we are strapped and wouldn't get a lawyer. But he guessed wrong. He will be very suprised to find out we did not go away with our tails between our legs. We will also be having our lawyer contact the owner of the John.L.Scott branch where the agent and broker work out of.
ok one last shot at this..............now I know I don't have both sides to this story and only going by the posted version, but from what is being said here, and any other RE agents or brokers feel free to correct, #1 the contract has been forged........big no no. #2 your agent did not use due diligence in performing his/her duties (not reading the contract) big no no. My suggestion is this ( and not sure how it works in your state so could be wrong)......get your agent and his broker, the buying agent and his broker into a meeting. ask who forged the changing of the contract and why your agent is blowing it off. There are some potentially damaging stuff here. When the finger pointing stops, I would almost bet you can get both to drop their commissions and get your price. Reason being, if you were to take them to court or getting a ruling from DRE or even the local board, someone could lose their lic over this. and get a hefty fine. They might be willing to forgo all commissions and push it under the rug on your terms. just a thought
My wife told our broker we would be willing to go through with the deal if we had a new escrow and buying agent and that we wanted all fees waived. He almost shit his drawers when we said this. He said no way was he going to do that to his agent. It got pretty heated after that. His agent gave us shit service and didn't even bother to give us the time of day after she though there was a buyer. That's when he said we should get a lawyer.
Well we saw our lawyer last night and he is going to bat for us. He is writing the John.L.Scott owner and broker and agent and telling them they can make this all go away easy or we will see them in court where will we drag it all out. It all depends on how much we want to spend. And right now I'm willing to spend more then we can get just to let these asshats know they just can't blow off someone when they didn't look out for our best intrests and then try to tell us to pack our shit. We were also informed that since the HUD was forged that is a federal crime and we should call the FBI.
BTW, we got some new agents. Also from John.L.Scott They re-listed our house on the 30th. We had an offer on the 2nd for $290 and then a full price ($299,888) offer on the 3rd that we accepted. We saw a receipt for the $3,500 ernest money, were told the buyers were putting $100K down and they gave us a settlement statement.
Now that is service.
So we will see what happens with the former agent and broker.

[Freak]

Call the Feds call everybody. Give that broker a spanking he wont forget. He needs it. F'in crook.

[callbob4homes]

Good for you. sounds like it going as it should. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a settlement out of this, but I am confused as to why you went back with the same company? sounds like you got an agent that knew what he/she is doing and that is as it should be. Good luck to you