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MsDrmr
01-06-2005, 09:02 AM
Why is it they work so hard to have any word of God removed from everything, Just heard a commerical on KOST103.5 that they are the ones that wanted the pledge of allegiance removed from schools, now they are petitioning to have the words changed in the presidential innacural (sp)
WTF :confused:

DogHouse
01-06-2005, 09:05 AM
Uh oh, here we go, pass the popcorn! :hammerhea
:D

My Man's Sportin' Wood
01-06-2005, 09:17 AM
I know, I don't understand why they get so offended. There are lots more important things to get upset about, like children starving, discrimination, spousal and child abuse. If you want to change America, those are the things we need to work on. Not waste the courts time and money because someone got their nose bent out of joint.

Danhercules
01-06-2005, 09:21 AM
They gonna change the way a witness gets swarn in too?

MsDrmr
01-06-2005, 09:21 AM
I just don't understand thats all. Everyone has beliefs and rights. Why are some trying to change everything? IF they don't believe in God, then how does he "word" hurt them. People are not asking that F**k be removed from the dictionary, or everyone with the name Jesus file for a name change. I don't biatch about turbons or the smell of some that never bathe, or complain about those that wear satanic stuff, people need to learn tolerance....(I include myself in this statement) I am honestly just trying to understand.....(I am soooooo :confused:)

My Man's Sportin' Wood
01-06-2005, 09:26 AM
Well, the issue is not about individuals expressing their religion (like the name of Jesus as a first name or wearing a headscarf or turban) it is about whether the govn't can express any religion. So if kids want to openly pray in school, it is their first amendment right to do so, but if the teacher as a representative of the school leads them in prayer, that is wrong.

VEGASBABY
01-06-2005, 09:28 AM
I know, I don't understand why they get so offended. There are lots more important things to get upset about, like children starving, discrimination, spousal and child abuse. If you want to change America, those are the things we need to work on. Not waste the courts time and money because someone got their nose bent out of joint.
Man cant change those things you mentioned, so they go after the small things that really dont matter. The Govt. is like the to old men arguing over what Jesus looked like rather then why he was here and what his purpose was. This world has lost it. As good a this country is,we fail more then we succeed. But theres always boating! :D

My Man's Sportin' Wood
01-06-2005, 09:29 AM
very good !and the asssholes that want to drain lakes.theirs other things that need to be done .they want us all to be like them WTF? :hammerhea
Off topic but:
T&B, we were in Utah right before Thanksgiving and loved it! We are going back in late March for the Easter Jeep Safari. We found out Moab is very close to the north east end of Powell. :coffeycup I think we'll be vacationing up there a lot more and maybe we can come visit you sometime instead of you always having to come down here!

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 09:29 AM
This a big problem with this country. Somewhere along the line we, we the people, should have the balls to stop this insanity. The Atheists will pay for their sins in the end. Its really their problem...but they are making a problem for us in this world. Love the sinner, not the sin.

JB in so cal
01-06-2005, 09:38 AM
Why is it they work so hard to have any word of God removed from everything, Just heard a commerical on KOST103.5 that they are the ones that wanted the pledge of allegiance removed from schools, now they are petitioning to have the words changed in the presidential innacural (sp)
WTF :confused:
My Dad, who was a bomber pilot in WWII, always said there are no athiests in combat!

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 09:44 AM
In a nutshell, "Freedom of religion" and then shoving one kind of religion down your throat is a contradiction. If you want to truly have freedom of religion, it needs to be seperated out of the government and schools. If you want to teach religion in school, teach ALL religion and let people make intelligent choices instead of brainwashing from family and school from the day you are born. I am not athiest and I am not religious. My religion is personal responsibility, and if you think I will "burn in hell" or whatever because I don't subscribe to your point of view, that's your freedom here in th US to voice, enjoy it.

MsDrmr
01-06-2005, 09:46 AM
Well, the issue is not about individuals expressing their religion (like the name of Jesus as a first name or wearing a headscarf or turban) it is about whether the govn't can express any religion. So if kids want to openly pray in school, it is their first amendment right to do so, but if the teacher as a representative of the school leads them in prayer, that is wrong.
well said, thats what I was trying to say, just couldn't find the right words

DogHouse
01-06-2005, 10:11 AM
In a nutshell, "Freedom of religion" and then shoving one kind of religion down your throat is a contradiction. If you want to truly have freedom of religion, it needs to be seperated out of the government and schools. If you want to teach religion in school, teach ALL religion and let people make intelligent choices instead of brainwashing from family and school from the day you are born. I am not athiest and I am not religious. My religion is personal responsibility, and if you think I will "burn in hell" or whatever because I don't subscribe to your point of view, that's your freedom here in th US to voice, enjoy it.
Bingo!
Yep, all those billions of people in the world who don't subscribe to the same religion are going to burn for sure... :rolleyes:
We're DOOMED! :messedup:
:D

Forkin' Crazy
01-06-2005, 10:41 AM
Atheists? You must be talking about the ACLU.

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 10:42 AM
I think mocking those who have chosen a faith is wrong. I accept anyone for who they are, not who/what they worship. You got one thing right....its choice..and I am glad EVERYONE has it.

HEDJUG
01-06-2005, 10:45 AM
Long Long time lurker here, time to jump in.
The key term here is "public setting". If god is to be mentioned, it has to be church related, not government. Just think about it, would you like to have to say "In L. Ron Hubbard we trust" or "In Allah we trust" at school or in court???? My guess is no. And that is the exact reason a Atheist sould not have to hear about god.
The common Atheists does not have a problem with god or religion. Nor do they have a problem with any people who follow any religion. They just don't want to have to hear about it in a public setting.
But, the common christian seems to have a ton of problems with people who see things differently.
Now, enough of this, lets talk about boobies.

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 10:55 AM
You CAN NOT just jump in here and say that...I was just gettin' goin'...but now that you mention it....boobies are good....you know you are supposed to post nekkked pictures for you first 5 posts dont you??? Nows your big opportunity....
Long Long time lurker here, time to jump in.
The key term here is "public setting". If god is to be mentioned, it has to be church related, not government. Just think about it, would you like to have to say "In L. Ron Hubbard we trust" or "In Allah we trust" at school or in court???? My guess is no. And that is the exact reason a Atheist sould not have to hear about god.
The common Atheists does not have a problem with god or religion. Nor do they have a problem with any people who follow any religion. They just don't want to have to hear about it in a public setting.
But, the common christian seems to have a ton of problems with people who see things differently.
Now, enough of this, lets talk about boobies.

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 10:56 AM
The Atheists will pay for their sins in the end.
Thanks. Happy New Year to you too.

CornWater
01-06-2005, 11:03 AM
This a big problem with this country. Somewhere along the line we, we the people, should have the balls to stop this insanity. The Atheists will pay for their sins in the end. Its really their problem...but they are making a problem for us in this world. Love the sinner, not the sin.
Not mocking those huh?? :confused:

1stepcloser
01-06-2005, 11:05 AM
I think it has something to do with the beliefs of the folks that founded this country.
They believe in and have a fear of, God, in a christian form.
Thats probably why they incorporated it into the fabric of our Nation.
You know, Respect. The golden rule. Honesty. That kind of stuff.

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 11:05 AM
Thanks. Happy New Year to you too.
Ok...let me reword that..."WE" all pay for our sins in the end.... I am not picking on anyone. I think having a choise still is impressive enough in this flailing country. To each his own as far as faiths go. I would not want to have to say in Ala (or whatever was posted earlier) we trust. Faith should be everyones own chioce. Never forced on anyone. ....this land, our country was started with idealisms and faith in "God". The Christian God. The one I have my "Faith" in. Hope that does not bother you. If it does I am sorry. I promise never to force you listen to any of 'my' book, the Bible.

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 11:07 AM
Not mocking those huh?? :confused:
I ABSOLUTELY should have worded that better...my appologies.

GHTRIM
01-06-2005, 11:07 AM
It is really f'ed up these people are trying to change the whole corse / future of the country. Before you know it we will have a Sh1t load of kinder gentler people in this country and we will all be screwd. It will be just like our good ole buddies FRANCE. :boxingguy

CornWater
01-06-2005, 11:14 AM
I ABSOLUTELY should have worded that better...my appologies.
Accepted.. no worries.. :)

esabataj
01-06-2005, 11:18 AM
Long Long time lurker here, time to jump in.
The key term here is "public setting". If god is to be mentioned, it has to be church related, not government. Just think about it, would you like to have to say "In L. Ron Hubbard we trust" or "In Allah we trust" at school or in court???? My guess is no. And that is the exact reason a Atheist sould not have to hear about god.
_____________________________________________
I don't see the problem with expressing in "GOD" we trust. The original framers of the constitution were expressing themselves in the belief of a supreme being, not the belief in the christian faith as such. The last time I looked around all major beliefs (Judism, Christianity, and Muslim) all make referance to a supreme being ie "God". That is one of the great things about our country. The abuility to worship the God of your choice includeing nothing at all if that is your belief. why should an Atheist have a problem hearing about a God they don't believe in anyway.
_______________________________________________
But, the common christian seems to have a ton of problems with people who see things differently.
_____________________________________________
Personally as a Christian I have no problem with people who believe and see things differently than the Christian faith. All people have the right in this country to believe as they see fit. It is not my place to judge or to force my beliefs on anyone and I do my best to live that way.
_______________________________________________
Now, enough of this, lets talk about boobies.
Now back to the Boobies :D

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:22 AM
It is really f'ed up these people are trying to change the whole corse / future of the country. Before you know it we will have a Sh1t load of kinder gentler people in this country and we will all be screwd. It will be just like our good ole buddies FRANCE. :boxingguy
Since when was kindness and gentleness a bad thing? Wow, you need to kill your television is a really bad way.....

Liberator TJ1984
01-06-2005, 11:26 AM
TO HELL WITH THEM !!!!! :yuk:
My parents tought me to Pray and so do MY Kids !!!

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:30 AM
TO HELL WITH THEM !!!!! :yuk:
My parents tought me to Pray and so do MY Kids !!!
Is that what they all do in "Cockblock, TX"? LOL

MAINEVENT
01-06-2005, 11:34 AM
Why is it they work so hard to have any word of God removed from everything, Just heard a commerical on KOST103.5 that they are the ones that wanted the pledge of allegiance removed from schools, now they are petitioning to have the words changed in the presidential innacural (sp)
WTF :confused:
I was raised catholic now i dont go to church anymore and have'nt been in probably 14 years and dont care so much about it :D But although I am not GOD nore am i anyone to change something that is HISTORY and is something that has been that way for years when i say the "pledge" i still say UNDER GOD because its been that way.... some people just need to get their head's out of their asses and quit being so ignorant :boxingguy Its called HISTORY so leave it that way....You dont like it Dont say it that it :D
Just my .02
everyone believes in what, who and wear they want to, do your thing and thats thats more power to you :D

beer hunter
01-06-2005, 11:35 AM
This was copied from http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html :mix:
The Myth of
the Separation of Church and State
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State". Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced. However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment. The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:
I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. (1)
The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers. Williams had said:
When they have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever broke down the wall itself, removed the candlestick, and made his garden a wilderness, as at this day. And that there fore if He will eer please to restore His garden and paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in peculiarly unto Himself from the world...(2)
The "wall" was understood as one-directional; its purpose was to protect the church from the state. The world was not to corrupt the church, yet the church was free to teach the people Biblical values.
The American people knew what would happen if the State established the Church like in England. Even though it was not recent history to them, they knew that England went so far as forbidding worship in private homes and sponsoring all church activities and keeping people under strict dictates. They were forced to go to the state established church and do things that were contrary to their conscience. No other churches were allowed, and mandatory attendance of the established church was compelled under the Conventicle Act of 1665. Failure to comply would result in imprisonment and torture. The people did not want freedom from religion, but freedom of religion. The only real reason to separate the church from the state would be to instill a new morality and establish a new system of beliefs. Our founding fathers were God-fearing men who understood that for a country to stand it must have a solid foundation; the Bible was the source of this foundation. They believed that God's ways were much higher than Man's ways and held firmly that the Bible was the absolute standard of truth and used the Bible as a source to form our government.
There is no such thing as a pluralistic society. There will always be one dominant view, otherwise it will be in transition from one belief system to another. Therefore, to say Biblical principles should not be allowed in government and school is to either be ignorant of the historic intent of the founding fathers, or blatantly bigoted against Christianity.
Each form of government has a guiding principle: monarchy in which the guiding principle is honor; aristocracy in which the guiding principle is moderation; republican democracy in which the guiding principle is virtue; despotism in which the guiding principle is fear. Without people of the United States upholding good moral conduct, society soon degenerates into a corrupt system where people misuse the authority of government to obtain what they want at the expense of others. The U.S. Constitution is the form of our government, but the power is in the virtue of the people. The virtue desired of the people is shown in the Bible. This is why Biblical morality was taught in public schools until the early 1960's. Government officials were required to declare their belief in God even to be allowed to hold a public office until a case in the U.S. Supreme Court called Torcaso v. Watkins (Oct. 1960). God was seen as the author of natural law and morality. If one did not believe in God one could not operate from a proper moral base. And by not having a foundation from which to work, one would destroy the community. The two primary places where morality is taught are the family and the church. The church was allowed to influence the government in righteousness an d justice so that virtue would be upheld. Not allowing the church to influence the state is detrimental to the country and destroys our foundation of righteousness and justice. It is absolutely necessary for the church to influence the state in virtue because without virtue our government will crumble -- the representatives will look after their own good instead of the country's.
Government was never meant to be our master as in a ruthless monarchy or dictatorship. Instead, it was to be our servant. The founding fathers believed that the people have full power to govern themselves and that people chose to give up some of their rights for the general good and the protection of rights. Each person should be self-governed and this is why virtue is so important. Government was meant to serve the people by protecting their liberty and rights, not serve by an enormous amount of social programs. The authors of the Constitution wanted the government to have as little power as possible so that if authority was misused it would not cause as much damage. Yet they wanted government to have enough authority to protect the rights of the people. The worldview at the time of the founding of our government was a view held by the Bible: that Man's heart is corrupt and if the opportunity to advance oneself at the expense of another arose, more often than not, we would choose to do so. They firmly believed this and that's why an enormous effort to set up checks and balances took place. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. They wanted to make certain that no man could take away rights given by God. They also did not set up the government as a true democracy, because they believed, as mentioned earlier, Man tends towards wickedness. Just because the majority wants something does not mean that it should be granted, because the majority could easily err. Government was not to be run by whatever the majority wanted but instead by principle, specifically the principles of the Bible.
Our U.S. Constitution was founded on Biblical principles and it was the intention of the authors for this to be a Christian nation. The Constitution had 55 people work upon it, of which 52 were evangelical Christians.(3) We can go back in history and look at what the founding fathers wrote to know where they were getting their ideas. This is exactly what two professors did. Donald Lutz and Charles Hyneman reviewed an estimated 15,000 items with explicit political content printed between 1760 and 1805 and from these items they identified 3,154 references to other sources. The source they most often quoted was the Bible, accounting for 34% of all citations. Sixty percent of all quotes came from men who used the Bible to form their conclusions. That means that 94% of all quotes by the founding fathers were based on the Bible. The founding fathers took ideas from the Bible and incorporated them into our government. If it was their intention to separate the state and church they would never have taken principles from the Bible and put them into our government. An example of an idea taken from the Bible and then incorporated into our government is found in Isaiah 33:22 which says, "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king..." The founding fathers took this scripture and made three major branches in our government: judicial, legislative, and executive. As mentioned earlier, the founding fathers strongly believed that Man was by nature corrupt and therefore it was necessary to separate the powers of the government. For instance, the President has the power to execute laws but not make them, and Congress has the power to make laws but not to judge the people. The simple principle of checks and balances came from the Bible to protect people from tyranny. The President of the United States is free to influence Congress, although he can not exercise authority over it because they are separated. Since this is true, why should the church not be allowed to influence the state? People have read too much into the phrase "separation of church and state", which is to be a separation of civil authority from ecclesiastical authority, not moral values. Congress has passed laws that it is illegal to murder and steal, which is the legislation of morality. These standards of morality are found in the Bible. Should we remove them from law because the church should be separated from the state?
Our founding fathers who formed the government also formed the educational system of the day. John Witherspoon did not attend the Constitutional Convention although he was President of New Jersey College in 1768 (known as Princeton since 1896) and a signer of the Declaration of Independence. His influence on the Constitution was far ranging in that he taught nine of fifty-five original delegates. He fought firmly for religious freedom and said, "God grant that in America true religion and civil liberty may be inseparable and that unjust attempts to destroy the one may in the issue tend to the support and establishment of both."(4)
In October 1961 the Supreme Court of the United States removed prayer from schools in a case called Engel v. Vitale. The case said that because the U.S. Constitution prohibits any law respecting an establishment of religion officials of public schools may not compose public prayer even if the prayer is denominationally neutral, and that pupils may choose to remain silent or be excused while the prayer is being recited. For 185 years prayer was allowed in public and the Constitutional Convention itself was opened with prayer. If the founding fathers didn't want prayer in government why did they pray publicly in official meetings? It is sometimes said that it is permissible to pray in school as long as it is silent. Although, "In Omaha, Nebraska, 10-year old James Gierke was prohibited from reading his Bible silently during free time... the boy was forbidden by his teacher to open his Bible at school and was told doing so was against the law."(4) The U.S. Supreme Court with no precedent in any court history said prayer will be removed from school. Yet the Supreme Court in January, 1844 in a case named Vidal v. Girard's Executors, a school was to be built in which no ecclesiastic, missionary, or minister of any sect whatsoever was to be allowed to even step on the property of the school. They argued over whether a layman could teach or not, but they agreed that, "...there is an obligation to teach what the Bible alone can teach, viz. a pure system of morality." This has been the precedent throughout 185 years. Although this case is from 1844, it illustrates the point. The prayer in question was not even lengthy or denominationally geared. It was this: "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country." What price have we paid by removing this simple acknowledgment of God's protecting hand in our lives? Birth rates for unwed girls from 15-19; sexually transmitted diseases among 10-14 year olds; pre-marital sex increased; violent crime; adolescent homicide have all gone up considerably from 1961 to the 1990's -- even after taking into account population growth. The Bible, before 1961, was used extensively in curriculum. After the Bible was removed, scholastic aptitude test scores dropped considerably.
There is no such thing as a pluralistic society; there will always be one dominant view. Someone's morality is going to be taught -- but whose? Secular Humanism is a religion that teaches that through Man's ability we will reach universal peace and unity and make heaven on earth. They promote a way of life that systematically excludes God and all religion in the traditional sense. That Man is the highest point to which nature has evolved, and he can rely on only himself and that the universe was not created, but instead is self-existing. They believe that Man has the potential to be good in and of himself. All of this of course is in direct conflict with not only the teachings of the Bible but even the lessons of history. In June 1961 in a case called Torcaso v. Watkins, the U.S. Supreme Court stated, "Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others." The Supreme Court declared Secular Humanism to be a religion. The American Humanist Association certifies counselors who enjoy the same legal status as ordained ministers. Since the Supreme Court has said that Secular Humanism is a religion, why is it being allowed to be taught in schools? The removal of public prayer of those who wish to participate is, in effect, establishing the religion of Humanism over Christianity. This is exactly what our founding fathers tried to stop from happening with the first amendment.
1. Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Writings, Merrill D. Peterson, ed. (NY: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), p. 510, January 1, 1802.
2. John Eidsmoe, Christianity and the Constitution (MI: Baker Book House, 1987), p. 243.
3. M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States Constitution (Marlborough, N.H.: Plymouth Rock Foundation, 1982), p. 4-5.
4. John Witherspoon, "Sermon on the Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men" May 17, 1776; quoted and Cited by Collins, President Witherspoon, I:197-98.

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:37 AM
I thought one of the things that makes America great is that we are constantly evolving and changing. Maybe you are right. Let's make women property again and enslave blacks, that's the way it was back then, and it should just be accepted, right?
Just trying to understand your logic, if you can call it that....

MAINEVENT
01-06-2005, 11:38 AM
Who????? :confused:

HEDJUG
01-06-2005, 11:40 AM
You CAN NOT just jump in here and say that...I was just gettin' goin'...but now that you mention it....boobies are good....you know you are supposed to post nekkked pictures for you first 5 posts dont you??? Nows your big opportunity....
Nash,
I will try to find some acceptable pics, but we only have one or two boobie type events out here on my part of the bay & the pics from that would get me booted. The girles here save it all up for once a year & let it rip...
Thats why I come to ***boat, it help to fill in the long gaps that we suffer.

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:41 AM
Who????? :confused:
You. You wrote "Its called HISTORY so leave it that way...." Lot's of history was not good. Like the inclusion of religious beliefs into a government with freedom of religion, and all MEN were created equal, and women were not able to vote.......
According to your logic, all this will have to be changed back as well, because it's "history".....

spectras only
01-06-2005, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=mrsdrmr]Why is it they work so hard to have any word of God removed from everything,
[QUOTE] Maybe for the same reason I'm getting tired of hearing "OMG" a thousand times lately on every television shows , ie; overhauled , extreme makeover etc......BTW I'm catholic :wink: :D

GHTRIM
01-06-2005, 11:42 AM
Since when was kindness and gentleness a bad thing? Wow, you need to kill your television is a really bad way.....
Nothing is wrong with "kinder & gentler". It is always good to try and work things out first but if you look at history we, as a county, have given in to being sensitive to the minority and the majority pay. For example this county was built on religeon weather or not people waht to see it that way. Several groups (not necessarily the Athiest) have slowly chipped away at the ORIGINAL foundation of this great country. There does come a time to say enough is enough. Well enough of all of the serious talk. Almost time to drink beer :) :)

GHTRIM
01-06-2005, 11:45 AM
78 you have some good / valid points.. It would be cool to have a couple of Beers and bullsh1t. You go to Havasu much? Maybe we'll meet on the lake one day, you seem cool.

DogHouse
01-06-2005, 11:48 AM
Ok...let me reword that..."WE" all pay for our sins in the end.... I am not picking on anyone. I think having a choise still is impressive enough in this flailing country. To each his own as far as faiths go. I would not want to have to say in Ala (or whatever was posted earlier) we trust. Faith should be everyones own chioce. Never forced on anyone.
Exactly! So why force the word "God" on others through government related or sanctioned documents, pledges, etc?
....this land, our country was started with idealisms and faith in "God". The Christian God. The one I have my "Faith" in. Hope that does not bother you. If it does I am sorry. I promise never to force you listen to any of 'my' book, the Bible.
This country was started because one flavor of Christians was tired of being persecuted by another flavor of Christians. That's why they wrote the stuff in the constitution about government staying out of the religious business!
:smile:

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:49 AM
Several groups (not necessarily the Athiest) have slowly chipped away at the ORIGINAL foundation of this great country. :)
I understand your point, and sometimes change is scary, like the trips the people made here on wooden ships to begin a new life in an unsettled country. But, this "chipping away" of our original foundation, is progress. Like when you remodel your house, you have to tear things down before you can build them up to be larger, have a stronger foundation and more accommodating features.

NashvilleBound
01-06-2005, 11:51 AM
Nash,
I will try to find some acceptable pics, but we only have one or two boobie type events out here on my part of the bay & the pics from that would get me booted. The girles here save it all up for once a year & let it rip...
Thats why I come to ***boat, it help to fill in the long gaps that we suffer.
Well either way welcome to the ***boat forums..

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:51 AM
78 you have some good / valid points.. It would be cool to have a couple of Beers and bullsh1t. You go to Havasu much? Maybe we'll meet on the lake one day, you seem cool.
Never been to havasu, hopefully next summer someone will invite me cause I don't have a boat that will handle it. But yeah, it would be cool to shoot the shit with you. I am not trying to stir the pot, as I respect anyone who is willing to have an intelligent conversation, really. I just like to stand up for America and what true freedom really is. :cool:

GHTRIM
01-06-2005, 11:53 AM
I understand your point, and sometimes change is scary, like the trips the people made here on wooden ships to begin a new life in an unsettled country. But, this "chipping away" of our original foundation, is progress. Like when you remodel your house, you have to tear things down before you can build them up to be larger, have a stronger foundation and more accommodating features.
Point taken... We could go all day.... As I said before, good / valid points.

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:53 AM
This country was started because one flavor of Christians was tired of being persecuted by another flavor of Christians. That's why they wrote the stuff in the constitution about government staying out of the religious business!
:smile:
I have decendants that were tortured to death in england for their christian religious beliefs. That's why we came here......

GHTRIM
01-06-2005, 11:56 AM
Never been to havasu, hopefully next summer someone will invite me cause I don't have a boat that will handle it. But yeah, it would be cool to shoot the shit with you. I am not trying to stir the pot, as I respect anyone who is willing to have an intelligent conversation, really. I just like to stand up for America and what true freedom really is. :cool:
Me too Bro... 9.5 years in the service... I volunteered (and many others), so we can do what we are doing now. :)

78Eliminator
01-06-2005, 11:57 AM
Me too Bro... 9.5 years in the service... I volunteered (and many others), so we can do what we are doing now. :)
There you go...... :D

MAINEVENT
01-06-2005, 12:05 PM
You. You wrote "Its called HISTORY so leave it that way...." Lot's of history was not good. Like the inclusion of religious beliefs into a government with freedom of religion, and all MEN were created equal, and women were not able to vote.......
According to your logic, all this will have to be changed back as well, because it's "history".....
I never said all history was good...their has been changes that to many people were not fair such as what you said Slavery, womens rights, and segregation etc... but this is a written document not slavery etc.. what are you telling me now you are gonna change the 10 commandments because you feel like it :notam: come on be real all i am saying is if you dont believe in "it" or want to learn about it DONT its that simple just like i dont go to you or anyone else and say "I love the devil i am a satanic (Im not) come join me and lets end the catholic or whatever religoun let make our dominant and more important" its not right, the U.S if i am not mistaken is all about the freedom of CHOICE so make people should make their own choice and practice whatever they do or dont want to but their are alot of people who practice and preach many thing in this country its the beauty of America
Just my .02