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View Full Version : DIRECTION OF BOATING INDUSTRY NOW!



BoatFloating
01-31-2002, 10:26 AM
With the tragic event of the HTM crash, I'll throw this out for dicussion. Some of the boat mags sponsor 100 mph shootouts during the year for publication. I wonder what effect this will have on the magazines roll in the future. I understand that nobody tells grown adults what and how to do it,but I have a couple buddies that now really think about pushing the speed enevolpe. I wonder at he upcoming boat show how many builders will be showing boats with a ton of ponies. I know the first two questions every shopping hot boat buyer ask, "how fast" and "how much" the later depends on the first. I love going fast but there is always somebody faster and thats good for the food chain. My question is what role will the magazines play in the future. I look at all 3 HB,PB and FP&B. In each one I never see the testers wearing safety gear or the models or passengers. I'm not sure how fast they are going in the photo shoots but it looks like they are moving pretty good. I don't wear a vest on my boat at low speeds or high and high is not triple digits but my son does because he's required to by law. I know accidents happen and you could get killed launching you boat. I think when major accidents in anything happen people look and see what we can do to limit them from happening again. I'm looking for some discussion of whats next for the boating industry or does things go on as before?????
FB.......
[This message has been edited by BoatFloating (edited January 31, 2002).]

Thunderbutt
01-31-2002, 02:58 PM
BoatFloating, People have been killing themselfs in fast boats for many years, but until recently it has been on the race course. Now that all boat manufacturors have to have the fastest boat, things have changed. We havn't seen anything yet. When these 100 MPH boats get on these small lakes and rivers with drivers that don't know what to do in an emergency situation; what it will do is make the governing bodies put speed limits and other restrictions on us like driver's licenses.

Skaterfast
01-31-2002, 03:54 PM
Has anyone been to a certified Coast Guard approved saftey driving class,like me?It scares the hell out of me that you can win a 60mph boat or jet ski on Wheel of fortune and drive it at 60 the next day.

Richard Cranium
01-31-2002, 04:25 PM
Skaterfast,
Where do you attend a certified Coast Guard approved safety driving class??? I've attended the Coast Guard Auxiliary multi- week class and several short classes (1-2 days). These are all safety and navigation classes and had nothing to do with driving except for rules. I know there is a performance driving school in Florida with a LONG waiting list that I've considered but I'm clueless on any others.
Can you shed some light??

Skaterfast
01-31-2002, 04:53 PM
Must have been 10 years ago,but I do remember it was out of a faclity in Huntington Harbour Ca or Sunset beach Ca.Try Huntington Harbour Coast guard.It wasn't much of a class,alot of it I already knew.

Skaterfast
01-31-2002, 04:55 PM
Dick Head,Sounds like the same class.I think it was 3 nights for 2 or 3 hours at a time.

pgf127rt
01-31-2002, 05:25 PM
Great topic, should be lots of idea's kicked around on this one, so I will offer my .02, I am sure there are a few of you who remember what happened to the muscle cars of the 60's & 70's, if not they were basically outlawed by the U.S. Government to conserve fuel, during the Nixon Administration, and the national speed limit was dropped from 70 mph on all roads to 55, is it probable that the govt. killed two problems with one law, I think it was, because the same thing was happening in the auto industry as is happening in the pleasure boating ind. in the last few years, as in that period of time the Automakers were pushing high horsepower and consumers were buying like hot cakes, with no other place to try them out but on public highways, and a few on the dragstrips.
My consensus of this whole deal is if enough negative publicity get's back to the gaovernment regarding the boating world, you can bet the lawmakers will take it to task, the solution is to either police our selves and use common sense and proper safety gear. and don't have an accident which involves John Q. Public.
Boatfloating, you are right about the example set by boating mags. by going fast with no apparent safety gear on the test pilots and passengers, and I ask is this giving potential owners a false sense of security?
[This message has been edited by pgf127rt (edited January 31, 2002).]

BoatFloating
01-31-2002, 06:23 PM
I also took a boating class in 1984. It was a home study test and mail in your answers and get a certificate.All this did was lower my insurance. This is as about as good as a online driving school. I went to school and that doesn't mean I'm smart(my typing and grammar prove that). I think the next step before the Fed's or local law enforcement tell us what we can and can't do is to police our selfs. Now this doesn't mean run down a guy and tell him to put on a vest if he goes over 70 mph. But maybe the topic of dicussion at the channel or sandbar (and I'm sure this year will be talked about more than usual) should be some safety issues. No matter how good of a driver you are or how safe you try to be accidents happen and people get hurt and die. It's the stupid stuff that irks me. Like someone doing mach 4 thru the river with 15 boats around and going in all different directions or the guy on the See Doo who pulls a left in front of you (we've all been there). In closing, just let me say that we love our boats we love our families (maybe even our wife's)and we love life and I'm sure the person who dies loved the same things. So the next time a person gets next to you and the conditions are not right, don't power up, live to see that day's sunset. I would sure like to go a 150 mph and know it was safe and I would be drinking a few brews with the boys that night bragging that I was the fastest that day. You have nothing to worry about I'm only dreaming of that speed. If we don't police ourselfs then the police will and insurance companies won't cover you. Remember the old days when 20' open bows ruled the water and you looked for the smoothest water to ski, boy how times have change. Lets just try to keep them this way cause I can't ski any more and that 20' boat beat the crap out of me. Keep it safe and if it is safe then go with thottle up........
BF......
[This message has been edited by BoatFloating (edited January 31, 2002).]

Richard Cranium
02-01-2002, 09:21 AM
Skaterfast,
I thought you may have attended a "drivers class". I've had my fill of safety and navigation classes. There's even some online ones that'll qualify for insurance discounts. I was looking for a school that teaches performance driving. The one in FL puts you in a classroom and then puts you in the drivers seat with twin throttles in one hand and a wheel in the other.
BoatFloating,
I hear you loud and clear. The best safety device is attached to the wheel and throttles. Know your limits, know your equipments limits and take measures to protect yourself and others when those limits are pushed.

1faster
02-01-2002, 11:13 AM
Wow Marv, you sound so responsible..................strange.....

HavasuDreamin'
02-01-2002, 11:34 AM
PGF127rt: Great response, I kind of see the industry going the same way as the muscle cars of the 60's as well. It already has! What did the gov. do in the 70's? Smog devices, lower compression, lower octane fuel, etc. All that stuff killed the performance. The tree huggers are already banning so called "excessive polutant" boats from certain lakes. Which boats are these? The fast ones!
Boating has multiple problems today. To many boats, on too few lakes, speed, and lack of experienced drivers to name a few.
I am for some sort of driving regulation (ie a drivers license) before going to a 35 mph speed limit. Unfortunately, both may be necessary eventually. I wish it hadn't come to this but in my honest opinion the "policing ourselves" is only fooling ourselves. While most people could do a good job of it, it only takes a couple of idiots to screw it up for everyone else, and we all know there are a lot of idiots out there. A drivers license with an "in the water test" would decrease the idiots on the water. To many points on your license and it gets suspended, etc.
It is absolutely ridiculous that an ordinary JOE who has never owned a boat before can walk in off the street with a pile of cash and walk out the door with a bone-stock 115 mph boat. STV, Mirage, DCB 22' with twins, etc., all the manufactures make them not to mention the lake lice which will run 60mph of which very few if any of the operators have any water experience.
Financing options today don't help. In our society of a $1 down and $1/month for the rest of your life, it doesn't even take a pile of cash to get into to the sport. Thus you have more people getting into it, and more inexperienced people getting into it. Result . . . today's problems.
One last depressing thought to kick around. Are the days of being able to purchase these water rockets dwindling? All it takes is a lawsuit where someone has died in one of these machines to force a company into bankruptcy. Could that start a chain reaction on the manufactures parts of "we might want to think about selling these boats to the public?" If lawsuits occur, will manufactures Liability Insurance go up making it impossible to sell these boats. Will Liab. Ins. become extinct for the manufactures. We have already seen a little of this. What happend to Sanger in the 70's. . . . from dragboats to tourament ski boats. Rapid Craft . . . bankrupt due to death related accident. If something happens to Eliminator, or one of the other big, big guys, look out! Scarry thought!

BoatFloating
02-01-2002, 08:58 PM
HD, nicely put. When I started this thread that was the question I posed. At the upcoming boat show how many Manafactures will be showing alot of HP. You hit it right on the head with law suits. Joe blow with lots of money and lots of power kills a See Poop rider you can expect that boat builder to be in court a year later. I agree it's not the boat builders fault that said Daddy Warbucks has a ton of money and bought a 1100hp and went out and killed somebody but that doesn't stop you from being sued. Just protecting yourself is costly not inculding lawyers fees. I know this boat builders even the ones that been around along time stay in business by the thinest of strings. The boat show I think will be intresting to see the new direction this year and next.
BF......

Charley
02-02-2002, 08:26 AM
Personally I thing Lawsuits are 60-70% BS....I wish our court system had a review board with 3 officials on it to review every lawsuit and give it a stamp of merited lawsuit, or non merited. How much money would this save us taxpayers each year.....not to mention the people that have to put up money for defense for bogus suits. people are suing big , medium and small businesses and individuals day after day just because if they only ask for $500-$1500 its cheaper to pay than to show up in court. I'm sorry if Im aggravated about this but Ive been forced to defend myself recently on a bogus claim, we won, but my business liability insurance went up...It sucks, and it's wrong. Sorry I feel better!

pgf127rt
02-03-2002, 07:36 AM
Charley, you are so correct about bogus lawsuits, however the problem lies with the sympathetic juries, which are picked by the atty's. such as the one about McDonalds coffee which burnt the customer who didn't properly handle the product, what was the judgement 3mil. or so, pathetic!
Can you imagine the choices for a jury against a Hot Boat mfg., I can, a fisherman who got buzzed, jetskier who almost got run over cause he was not paying attention,Bayliner owner cause he can't keep up,etc. you see where it goes, they did it to the Auto industry, so it doesn't matter wherein the fault lies as with driver's ignorance, the one's who are at risk is the source of the product.
It is a shame when our court's allow these kind of sham's to thrive in the U.S., but it is happening every day.

FastCats
02-03-2002, 07:29 PM
Dreamin,
Insurance rates are already sky high, I just cant imagine not having it. We as a company are already prepared as best as possible for worst of mishaps. It's pricey, but as a manufacturer, you got to have it, as it goes up, boat prices go up, not that any mfg wants it to, it's just the nature of any business.
Thunderbutt is correct that there have been accidents before, mostly on a course or BWI related.
What we have started at the beginning of last year was on any of our sales, we give an afternoon or atleast a few hours of orientation in their boat(if possible) or one similiar. I have flown to numerous places just to spend an afternoon with the new owner, to get them acclimated. If nothing else, it makes me feel better knowing that we gave it a shot in education. We are almost finished with a test that will be given and when completed the new owner gets life jackets or something of that sort, and it states that they have been acclimated to this style of boat and that they know of the dangers involved, We will keep that in each customer file.
We are getting more and more Vee bottom owners and I find that most are trying to drive our cats like a vee and it won't work. Maybe it's a moral issue, but it's the same reason that we haven't come out with a open bow cat. Some guy gets one too many in him and throws the kids in the front at the sand bar(or wherever) and races his buddy back to the ramp that evening. Kids do some crazy and unpredictable stuff at times!
Maybe it's a moral issue, but I think education is key. We're currently running some serious numbers in our testing, and theres a lot that we can pass on. If the customer will listen!
Common sense is key, don't be a show off, sorry for the rambling on, this is a subject that I have been working on for some time.
Scott
[This message has been edited by FastCats (edited February 03, 2002).]

waterbum
02-03-2002, 08:48 PM
Scott you sound like the real deal to me.Atleast your attempting to do somthing.I always liked A.O. cats,matter of fact,my first cat ride was in an A.O..This same cat is stored in my Kathouse for the winter...P.S.I like the way you think. Bum

HavasuDreamin'
02-04-2002, 07:02 AM
Charley & PGF127, you guys have some great points. In an ideal world, half the lawsuits that make it into the court would never get there becuase they have no merit. I agree with you 100% there. Unfortunately, our entire justice system is set up to protect the people and not the "big bad" corporation regardless of product. There is a legal term called "strict liability" which allows anyone and everyone involved in the manufacture, sale, and distribution of a product to be sued if something goes wrong. That goes for the Tylenol you use, to a car, to a blender, to a Hi-Po water rocket. It is quite possible that in a major lawsuit the boat manufacture, engine maker, any marketing company, distribution company, etc. would all get sued. The ones with the deepest pockets would eventually end up paying out.
Fast Cat, great idea you are implementing. Perhaps one of the ways to save the Hi-po part of the industry. We need ALL of the manufactures to start getting their customers acclimated with their new toys prior to setting them free. I would even go so far as to say we need reoccuring training in the industry from someone, manufactures, coast guard. . . . someone. How does the judge and jury feel if Joe Blow hasn't had any training in 7-years and he kills someone? What happens in the used market when Joe Blow buys a 3 year old 115mph STV? Same problem as in my previous message.
My 2-cents, I just can't help but think that in due time, there will be a high enough profile accident with a high enough profile manufacture to change the industry for ever. You take a big dollar company like Eliminator or Fountain, etc. . . couple that with Mercruiser power and there is just too many dollar signs for the families of the deceased. Put that situation in court with the media perhaps taking a deeper look into our relatively unregulated industry (when compared to auto's, etc.) and I think we could be in for a rude of wakening.
I kind of take a worst case scenario look at things. Right or wrong, I can't help but see it this way.
One thing for sure, even if the gov. makes more rules and regulations against us hot boaters than you can shake a stick at, you will still see me cruising the water ways in my 100 mph rocket at 35 mph! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/cool.gif

sea buddy
02-11-2002, 05:22 AM
Small airplanes need over $100,000 per plane insurance for a new one. That's the mfg. nut per plane based on their accident rate.
You all want insurance that high?

Essex502
02-11-2002, 07:36 AM
Think not only of the manufacturer's business insurance but each and everyone of the boaters that has their insurance. I personally pay over $1k for our boat insurance coupled with $2,500 for our auto insurance. I still carry a $1M umbrella over all of that just in case something happens. It won't take many more high profile accidents before the insurance companies start rubbing the greedy little hands together and seeing how they can jack up the rates for us as well. Just wait and see if the government pukes decide that mandatory insurance for boating is necessary. Then you'll see our boating insurance triple like my car insurance did.

pgf127rt
02-11-2002, 04:45 PM
Essex,you are right on about the greedy insurance and the fed's getting involved, this goes back to our previous post's on this topic, and I don't believe it can be stressed enough, we will either do our boating responsibly or the fed's will invoke legislation, and assume the responsibility for enforcing it, and as you say our $$$$ will follow to help pay for the enforcement,I know there are those who don't believe this can or will happen, well, we had all better wake up, because it has happened to more of our freedom's in my lifetime than I care to remember, why did they enact legislation for motorcycle riders to wear helmets, or the seat belt laws, and the tough safety law's for auto makers, folk's we are vulnerable.

sea buddy
02-12-2002, 07:16 AM
Insurance is a business.
More accidents, claims go up, rates go up.
Rates get too high and other companys come into the market and lower rates.
They domake a profit.
Claims plus profit=pricing.
I just want to know how to buy boats when a 20 boat a year builder is paying 2 million in insurance premiums a year.
I can't buy that boat.

Essex502
02-12-2002, 11:26 AM
Sea Buddy...
I remember when California enacted "mandatory insurace" for automobiles. My Insurance IMMEDIATELY jumped 35% on the next renewal without ANY warranted actions on my part - citations, accidents, casualty loss, etc.. If the states enact similar legislation for boating just wait and see what your insurance rates will do. When an industry or entity has you "by the balls" (five on two!) they can charge any damn rate they please. Only recently with all of the furor over rates in California has any kind of controls been put into place. And those that are so limp and late that the rate increases were locked-in prior to the controls. If the insurance companies band together and make it SOOO expensive to buy policies for high or extreme performance boats then in effect the government is legislating them out of existence. Not too far fetched in my humble opinion.

sea buddy
02-14-2002, 07:59 AM
Similar to my thoughts