Few Questions: Havasu/Topc Entrance, Boat Registration, Salt

[mrfussion]

I was hoping someone could help me on a few questions. I'm a twenty-one year old student at UC Irvine and me and my two brothers just bought a used 21' Correct Craft Air Nautigue [mostly] for use at the river. My parents have a house on the water in Bullhead City, so the boat will mainly be used on the stretch of river from Davis Dam to The Avi. Over Spring Break, one of my brothers tried to launch from Jack Smith Park in Needles and head into Havasu. He complained the the Havasu/Topac entrance was extremely shallow (I suggested he stay on plane and take it on the right hand side heading down river). Most people seem to take to the left. Does anyone have any input on the deepest section?
My next questions deals with registration. As I see it, I can legitimately register the boat in Arizona, California, or Nevada. The boat is currently registered in California and is current through April 2007. As I understand it, I can register the boat in Arizona and pay no sales tax and $259.00/annually for registration. If I register in Nevada, it will cost $40.00/annually with no sales tax. If I register in California, I pay approx. 8% sales tax, $9.00/annually + 1% property tax. With this Nevada seems to be the best deal. Is this correct? I'm willing to pay a couple hundred extra to keep the boat registered in CA so I don't have to get the numbers repainted, but is there anyway to avoid the sales tax (e.g., register Nevada for the year, without allowing the current CA registration to lapse, and then transfer it into CA next year? ... or would my CA numbers get changed?)
On this same registration point, I want to put the boat in an LLC or corporation just in case one of my brothers does anything stupid ... does anyone have experience with this? Which did you choose? Should the LLC/Corp. home match the state the boat is registered in? Any advantages for an LLC between the different states?
Finally, before this boat I had a 35' Fountain that I ran out of Newport Beach. The previous owner had bought it new in 1996 and had always run in the salt water. By the time I'd finished putting a couple more years in the salt on the boat, it'd taken its toll. Has anyone every run a wakeboard boat in Marine Stadium and did it create any problems? I'd like to do this several times before Memorial Day, and then I'll leave the boat in Bullhead permanately. But I don't want to do it if it's going to create problems.
Sorry this was so long, but hopefully I'll learn something ... as opposed to all the bullsh*t you guys usually talk about. :crossx:

[ROZ]

hopefully I'll learn something ... as opposed to all the bullsh*t you guys usually talk about. :crossx:
Damn you to hell! :D
Do you already have an LLC? I really don't see how this will apply. Asset protection, but if he crashes into someone and breaks the boat Insurance will hopefully take care of it. Why not just get insurance? If you're brother does something stupid or illegal, he's going to be up sheit creek anyway :D If he crashes into someoneAnd if he's that irresponsible, he doesn't belong behind the wheel...

[HM]

On this same registration point, I want to put the boat in an LLC or corporation just in case one of my brothers does anything stupid ... does anyone have experience with this? Which did you choose? Should the LLC/Corp. home match the state the boat is registered in? Any advantages for an LLC between the different states?
While putting the boat into an LLC or Corp (preferrably a NV or WY) corp is a great idea, the use of a trust vehicle will give you the best asset protection, and you will best be protected by an irrevocable trust. Most people don't like irrevocable trust because they lose choice and control, and it sounds irrevocable. Well, there is nothing irrevocable about an irrevocable trust. And, properly structured, you retain choice and control without destroying the ability of the trust to protect.
Corporations and LLC's give good asset protection, but only in one direction: If the corporation or LLC is sued directly. But, if you are sued personally, they have a back door entrance and most protection is lost (no jokes from the bench racers). And WHEN you get sued, you will be sued both through your corp and personally....lawyers' rule of thumb? Sue everyone! Irrevocable trusts give the hands down best asset protection there is, and is similar to setup like a corporation, only cost less in the long run to manage. No minimum corporate taxes and etc. A Trust has a tax I.D., but if no income is realized, then no taxes.
Most lawyers will give you the wrong advice in this area, just like most lawyers suggest an S Corp election to everyone starting a corp as it is easy and simple for people to understand (so it seems on the outside!).
Depending on where you are at, I can refer you to a specialist in this area, and they are way cheaper than a lawyer who will put you in the wrong asset protection vehicle.

[BajaMike]

1. I was hoping someone could help me on a few questions. I'm a twenty-one year old student at UC Irvine and me and my two brothers just bought a used 21' Correct Craft Air Nautigue [mostly] for use at the river. My parents have a house on the water in Bullhead City, so the boat will mainly be used on the stretch of river from Davis Dam to The Avi. Over Spring Break, one of my brothers tried to launch from Jack Smith Park in Needles and head into Havasu. He complained the the Havasu/Topac entrance was extremely shallow (I suggested he stay on plane and take it on the right hand side heading down river). Most people seem to take to the left. Does anyone have any input on the deepest section?
2. My next questions deals with registration. As I see it, I can legitimately register the boat in Arizona, California, or Nevada. The boat is currently registered in California and is current through April 2007. As I understand it, I can register the boat in Arizona and pay no sales tax and $259.00/annually for registration. If I register in Nevada, it will cost $40.00/annually with no sales tax. If I register in California, I pay approx. 8% sales tax, $9.00/annually + 1% property tax. With this Nevada seems to be the best deal. Is this correct? I'm willing to pay a couple hundred extra to keep the boat registered in CA so I don't have to get the numbers repainted, but is there anyway to avoid the sales tax (e.g., register Nevada for the year, without allowing the current CA registration to lapse, and then transfer it into CA next year? ... or would my CA numbers get changed?)
3. On this same registration point, I want to put the boat in an LLC or corporation just in case one of my brothers does anything stupid ... does anyone have experience with this? Which did you choose? Should the LLC/Corp. home match the state the boat is registered in? Any advantages for an LLC between the different states?
4, Finally, before this boat I had a 35' Fountain that I ran out of Newport Beach. The previous owner had bought it new in 1996 and had always run in the salt water. By the time I'd finished putting a couple more years in the salt on the boat, it'd taken its toll. Has anyone every run a wakeboard boat in Marine Stadium and did it create any problems? I'd like to do this several times before Memorial Day, and then I'll leave the boat in Bullhead permanately. But I don't want to do it if it's going to create problems.
Sorry this was so long, but hopefully I'll learn something ... as opposed to all the bullsh*t you guys usually talk about. :crossx:
Ok, you got four questions.......I got four answers (well, maybe five answers....)
I can answer all four in one word...K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). You are making recreational boating way too complicated :confused:
To answer your questions:
1. Don't run an inboard boat from Bullhead to Havasu!
2. Register the boat and pay the taxes where you will use and store the boat...don't get cute...it's not worth it....remember, this is fun...remember......K.I.S.S (do you want to go to jail?).
3. Again, "keep it simple stupid", forget the corp and LLC and the trust. Don't partner with assholes who are going to kill someone with your boat. Don't let anyone drive your boat who doesn't know safe boating or who will drive your boat drunk or reckless....and be safe and careful and buy plenty of insurance. :idea:
4. If you run the boat in salt water, hoist the boat into the water if you can (that's what I do when I launch in Dana Point), if you can't hoist, rinse the trailer after LAUNCH with Salt Away, and always flush the engine and boat and trailer with Salt Away when you finish for the day, and the boat and trailer will last a long time. :rollside:
And, IMHO, boating questions are always better on this "boating" forum then a lot of the other BS found here, but a lot of the BS is kinda fun....:D:D
:yuk:
Oh, and nice first post.... :) :rollside: and next time, don't make me number your questions for you...that's your job! :D

[cc322]

Ok, you got four questions.......I got four answers (well, maybe five answers....)
I can answer all four in one word...K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). You are making recreational boating way too complicated :confused:
To answer your questions:
1. Don't run an inboard boat from Bullhead to Havasu!
2. Register the boat and pay the taxes where you will use and store the boat...don't get cute...it's not worth it....remember, this is fun...remember......K.I.S.S (do you want to go to jail?).
3. Again, "keep it simple stupid", forget the corp and LLC and the trust. Don't partner with assholes who are going to kill someone with your boat. Don't let anyone drive your boat who doesn't know safe boating or who will drive your boat drunk or reckless....and be safe and careful and buy plenty of insurance. :idea:
4. If you run the boat in salt water, hoist the boat into the water if you can (that's what I do when I launch in Dana Point), if you can't hoist, rinse the trailer after LAUNCH with Salt Away, and always flush the engine and boat and trailer with Salt Away when you finish for the day, and the boat and trailer will last a long time. :rollside:
And, IMHO, boating questions are always better on this "boating" forum then a lot of the other BS found here, but a lot of the BS is kinda fun....:D:D
:yuk:
Oh, and nice first post.... :) :rollside: and next time, don't make me number your questions for you...that's your job! :D
Yeah what he said

[GRUNION]

wow this is way to technical for this early in the morning.

[HocusPocus]

if you plan on keeping or using the boat in california.. you better at least have the trailer registered in there... CHP get real nasty when they see a vehicle with CA plates pulling a trailer with out of state plates.

[prosthogod]

See what happens when you go to UCI.

[purrfecttremor]

wow this is way to technical for this early in the morning.
I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME. IT IM STILL ON MY 1ST CUP OF COFFEE.Ah there's the cap button!

[HM]

See what happens when you go to UCI.
University of Chinese Immigrants?
Nah, I am a CSUF graduate - California State's Useless Focktards. :D

[ROZ]

Ok, you got four questions.......I got four answers (well, maybe five answers....)
I can answer all four in one word...K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). You are making recreational boating way too complicated :confused:
To answer your questions:
1. Don't run an inboard boat from Bullhead to Havasu!
2. Register the boat and pay the taxes where you will use and store the boat...don't get cute...it's not worth it....remember, this is fun...remember......K.I.S.S (do you want to go to jail?).
3. Again, "keep it simple stupid", forget the corp and LLC and the trust. Don't partner with assholes who are going to kill someone with your boat. Don't let anyone drive your boat who doesn't know safe boating or who will drive your boat drunk or reckless....and be safe and careful and buy plenty of insurance. :idea:
4. If you run the boat in salt water, hoist the boat into the water if you can (that's what I do when I launch in Dana Point), if you can't hoist, rinse the trailer after LAUNCH with Salt Away, and always flush the engine and boat and trailer with Salt Away when you finish for the day, and the boat and trailer will last a long time. :rollside:
And, IMHO, boating questions are always better on this "boating" forum then a lot of the other BS found here, but a lot of the BS is kinda fun....:D:D
:yuk:
Oh, and nice first post.... :) :rollside: and next time, don't make me number your questions for you...that's your job! :D
Exactly! :D

[HM]

3. Again, "keep it simple stupid", forget the corp and LLC and the trust. Don't partner with assholes who are going to kill someone with your boat. Don't let anyone drive your boat who doesn't know safe boating or who will drive your boat drunk or reckless....and be safe and careful and buy plenty of insurance. :idea:
#3. Baja Mike has never been sued. And I am not just talking about being sued in a boating accident, although that was his main concern. We have got a sue happy society these days. I am being sued and my corporations (that is plural) by two people right now. They just spent a lot of money finding out I don't actually own anything and am just merely an employee of my corporation, that is owned by a trust. House? Trust. Cars? Trust. CashValue life insurance? Trust. Boat? Trust. It is nearly impossible to win a case by suing a trust. The only way to win against a trust is to prove it was created for the purpose of fraud....and they have to prove the fraud in a separate case before suing the trust.
Trusts legal instruments that have very specific language. Living trusts are the only trusts that lose on a regular basis in law suits without having to prove fraud as they usually have the Trustee, the Grantor, and the Beneficiary all be the same person. For estate planning, that is a non issue. But in a law suit, the court does not recognize an actual contract as a contract has to be between 2 or more people. When only one person is involved, it is not a legal contract in this area. When the person is sued in these cases, the court does not recognize that a trust even exists.
I agree with BajaMike on keeping it as simple as possible. But, when it comes to legal protection, you really can't be too careful. Just ask anyone who has been sued whether or not they won or loss. A law suit can be financially devastating, and with the new BK laws, it can be permenantly devastating.
I also carry a PLUP (Personal Liability Umbrella Policy), but there are pro's and cons to that as well. Pro: You are protected up to a certain amount over and above your other insurance. Con: Cost. And, it can actually attract lawsuits since you have an additional insurance pocket and lawyers like to sue? Everybody...and insurance likes to have settlements.

[BajaMike]

#3. Baja Mike has never been sued.
I've been sued and am involved in several corporations and a living trust and an irrevocable trust, and as of today :frown: I am executor of a living trust and an irrevocable trust and I still say, if you think you need to hire a lawyer to buy a boat, find another hobby like stock car racing or skydiving... :cool:
Now....lets go boating....:D
:rollside: :) :rollside: :) :rollside: :)

[locogringo]

While putting the boat into an LLC or Corp (preferrably a NV or WY) corp is a great idea, the use of a trust vehicle will give you the best asset protection, and you will best be protected by an irrevocable trust. Most people don't like irrevocable trust because they lose choice and control, and it sounds irrevocable. Well, there is nothing irrevocable about an irrevocable trust. And, properly structured, you retain choice and control without destroying the ability of the trust to protect.
Corporations and LLC's give good asset protection, but only in one direction: If the corporation or LLC is sued directly. But, if you are sued personally, they have a back door entrance and most protection is lost (no jokes from the bench racers). And WHEN you get sued, you will be sued both through your corp and personally....lawyers' rule of thumb? Sue everyone! Irrevocable trusts give the hands down best asset protection there is, and is similar to setup like a corporation, only cost less in the long run to manage. No minimum corporate taxes and etc. A Trust has a tax I.D., but if no income is realized, then no taxes.
Most lawyers will give you the wrong advice in this area, just like most lawyers suggest an S Corp election to everyone starting a corp as it is easy and simple for people to understand (so it seems on the outside!).
Depending on where you are at, I can refer you to a specialist in this area, and they are way cheaper than a lawyer who will put you in the wrong asset protection vehicle.
listen to this man becasue this is how I hold everything from real estate to personal items.
he is dead on (for once) lol

[mrfussion]

First, thank you for the responses so far … but, you missed the first question (which was the most important, as it was the only river-related boating question)! Someone must have a route that they take through the entrance of Topac/Havasu when heading to the sandbar. A few years ago I ran aground there (luckily it is nice and sandy … and more luckily it was in my parent’s boat) … I’d prefer not to do the same with mine. My old 35’ Fountain had a draft of 35” … this wakeboard boat is [supposably] only 31”. If you guys with the high-performance boats can make it through, I should too.
Second (see, I’m a quick learner and figured out this numbering thing), I’ve attempted to read about trusts and am not clear on its advantages over an LLC with respect to owning a boat. Even with a trust, I would still need to form an LLC or Corporation that would be transferred into the trust. The trust, therefore, seems to be an extra caution to prevent “piercing the corporate shell.” If the LLC or Corporation is managed as a business (i.e., signed contract regulating usage of the boat, minutes and shareholder meetings if a Corporation, etc.) the business should be legitimate and provide the asset protection I am looking for. As I see it, regardless of the entity that maintains the boats ownership, if I was driving and my negligence caused an accident, I would be liable. Now, if everything I owned was in a trust, I’d be protected, but I’m not [yet] looking to go to that extreme. The key for me is avoiding liability when one of my brothers takes the boat out on their own. Am I missing something, or is it fair to say this objective is achieved equally with any of the three forms of organization: LLC, Corporation, or trust?
Finally (in this sequence, that’s the same as “third” for you Pepperdine graduates), did the bar at the Nautical Inn ever re-open and is it public? I remember a tropical themed bar about 5+ years ago, but when I was down there a couple years ago it was closed (it looked like it was either being remodeled or about to be torn down).

[shueman]

I see most of the fixed prop wakeboard boats making the xfer from the river to the lake on the EXTREME EAST SIDE. When you come up to the no-ski bouys, take the big channel to the left.

[RiverToysJas]

I was hoping someone could help me on a few questions. I'm a twenty-one year old student at UC Irvine and me and my two brothers just bought a used 21' Correct Craft Air Nautigue [mostly] for use at the river. My parents have a house on the water in Bullhead City, so the boat will mainly be used on the stretch of river from Davis Dam to The Avi. Over Spring Break, one of my brothers tried to launch from Jack Smith Park in Needles and head into Havasu. He complained the the Havasu/Topac entrance was extremely shallow (I suggested he stay on plane and take it on the right hand side heading down river). Most people seem to take to the left. Does anyone have any input on the deepest section?
Simplest way.......If you don't know the channel through there (by lining up mountain peaks and landmarks), it's best to wait for a boat larger than yours and following them. Watch their wake, if it turns dark or brown, stop, go back, and wait for another. Unless you're mid-week and off season, someone is always going through there. If they are all going a way that you don't think will work, let me tell you, their way works! ;)
As for registration.....You have to pay Ca property tax if the boat is stored here, period. If you are storing out of state, like at your parents house in BHC, and using it there, then you should be registering in Az.(BTW - running anything but a jet there is not wise...you'll learn ;) ). You'll probably need to prove to Ca you are not storing it here. The trailer must be registered here, if you are ever going to tow it to Ca with a truck registered here. If the boat splits time between Ca and Az waterways, like from needles down, you can register either state, but unless the boat is worth more that $25,000 you are better off registering it in Ca and paying the 1%.
RTJas :D

[Poster X]

I have couple simple answers for you.
First hire a consulting company to make referrals for appropriate leagal shields, sub shields and ancillary shields.
Then, hire an investigator to insure you find the right legal team for this project. (A large Firm in Washington should suffiice.)
Once you have an umbrella over your umbrella you need to hire a guide, preferrably one familiar with all tribes that have borders on the Colorado from the California and Arizona sides.
You will also need an interpreter because there are many dialects among the various Indian tribes. Get someone skinny. Don't won't to overload the boat.
Since California and Arizona both have completely different boating laws, you will also need a consultant on board in case there is an accident. Depending on jusrisdiction he will nedd to advise accordingly before any other official interviews you.
Soemwhere in there, toss in a lifejacket or two and maybe an airhorn?
Happy boating.

[BajaMike]

I have couple simple answers for you.
First hire a consulting company to make referrals for appropriate leagal shields, sub shields and ancillary shields.
Then, hire an investigator to insure you find the right legal team for this project. (A large Firm in Washington should suffiice.)
Once you have an umbrella over your umbrella you need to hire a guide, preferrably one familiar with all tribes that have borders on the Colorado from the California and Arizona sides.
You will also need an interpreter because there are many dialects among the various Indian tribes. Get someone skinny. Don't won't to overload the boat.
Since California and Arizona both have completely different boating laws, you will also need a consultant on board in case there is an accident. Depending on jusrisdiction he will nedd to advise accordingly before any other official interviews you.
Soemwhere in there, toss in a lifejacket or two and maybe an airhorn?
Happy boating.
Ya...what he said.....
:D:D:D:D
And....I still wouldn't recommend running an inboard boat between Bullhead and Havasu. There's a lot of hidden rocks between Bullhead and Needles, and lots of changing sandbars between Needles and Havasu..... :idea: I've been thru there with less then 1/2 foot showing on my depth sounder (probably about a foot deep, with my drive way up) and the sandbars change all time.
If you do it, I agree with the above advice, I always try to follow a bigger boat (not a jet)......
:argue:

[Robert1050]

I agree with a lot of the earlier posters - but just a quick summation:
You run an inboard from Laughlin to Havasu, you gotta watch the water & read what other boats ahead of you are doing.
Those of us with fast clamp-ons, just raise the jack-plate & kick up the MPH. I can get by with 12" of water or less when I really push into it....
I've learned the hard-way that if you let other people 'borrow' you're boat (I don't care who they are), they're going to leave their common-sense and brains behind at the launch ramp & won't give a shiet what they do to you're property. Don't loan stuff to people you don't trust 100%.