ISO audit

[v-drive]

We started with this new firm because we felt the other group was really ripping us off. I just want to say that I have never felt so violated in my life.
This woman is going back to the year 2000 and when we asked why she simply said because I can. 2 more days with this lunatic and I hope we make it.... :cry: v-drive

[switchin'addiction]

Good luck! They can be brutual.

[OLDRAT]

V,
If she is an ISO Auditor working for your organization, stop the audit and
ask her to state her intentions. New ISO (ISO 9001:2000) is process
based and she should be only auditing your current processes and their intent.
Who is the firm you are currently using? If you are footing the bill, call
the firms office and let them know what is going on. There are a lot of
auditors out there that are loose cannons or cannot interpret the
specification correctly.
I have been a Quality Manager and Engineer for 28 years and am also
a ISO Lead Auditor, so this does not sound right. Get some definition.
Worse case, wait until she is done and get to the bottom of it during
the closeout meeting, or respond when addressing findings.
Good luck.

[v-drive]

Old Rat,I found your comments so interesting that I went up to the front office and talked with the senion VP. We decided to wait for the closing meeting to see how we faired and then decide on a course of action.
Thanks for your insight.....v-drive

[Havasu_Dreamin]

ISO is BS!

[OLDRAT]

V,
That's good. See what they say, then issue your responses accordingly.
They want your money, so even if they find some Category 1 or 2 findings,
you still will get a certification once you respond. Since most ISO
contracts are three years (one initial audit and usually 5 follow-up visits
every 6 months), you can request another person if this one does not
seem to understand you business. They can look at past records and
procedures to get a long-term understanding of your business, but
cannot include in an audit.
Remember, anything prior to the date you set to establish ISO is not
relevant, the system being audited is to comply with that date forward
and nothing else. As an example, the training records for employees
hired before the transformation date shall be considered "grandfathered in"
with supporting data on file.
HD, I agree. Since I manage a company with many international customers
along with U.S. Government Contracts, it was a mandatory dealio, but I have
set up our system to be as painless as possible. I must say that ISO 2000
is much easier to implement than the earlier versions. But like all
certification programs of this type, it does not guarantee that your company
will make good product, it only provides evidence that your system if used
per it's intent is capable of making acceptable product. Remember Firestone and Ford, they have systems (QS) more stringent than ISO, but it did not
prevent process deviation; their management decided to overlook shortcuts
in the name of profits.

[v-drive]

In industry today if your not iso approved you will be second dog, it's a bummer but it's the truth. Gotta go godzilla is here....v-drive

[Tremor Therapy]

It is very interesting being an ISO certified company. Is this just a survelliance audit, or is this a certification audit? If this is a survelliance audit it seems a little ridiculous what she is asking for. Our lead auditor keeps things real, and he looks for the objective evidence that you are following the processes, not the skeletons.
We just had our survelliance audit in early February, and passed with only one finding. Good luck, it the colonoscopy will be over soon! :2purples:

[v-drive]

I just got set free for afew minutes. She is a different woman today ,she is still picking us apart but staying away from the old stuff.
Tremor, this is a new cert because we are going with a different company. The reason we are doing that is about $10 grand. Thanks everyone for your input , it makes us feel a little better knowing that she has limits.
....v-drive

[OLDRAT]

No problem. Let me know if I can be of further help.
OR

[Rock-A-Bye-Baby]

I am eventually going to need to be certified. I have been putting it off becuase it really hasn't lost us anything but some of the bigger potential customers will want us to be certified. i was told that i could get certified for $7500.00 and wouldn't need to bring any additional staff on to maintain it. Now, i was part of a team that took a $200 million company thru certification and it was a fawking nightmare. I did more paperwork and maintenance then i ever cared to do.
Is the guy blowing smoke up me arse telling me i won't need additional staff?

[OLDRAT]

First and foremost, have a Registrar or consultant (with credentials) perform a pre-assessment of your facility to determine what needs to be changed
or incorporated. If you already have a quality system in place such as
Mil-I-45208, etc.etc., then your foundation is already there and your people
understand a structured environment. It still will be a struggle because no
one likes changes or invasions to their work or workspace, but it can be
done.
It depends on how your system is set-up. If there are a lot of processes and procedures and many departments, you may have to get some clerical
assistance. However, some work can be delegated to the members of the
ISO internal team. These folks are the ones to be trained to perform audits,
write processes based on what is actually happening and to perform training to others. The ISO team is usually based on several employees from various
departments that have been allowed to work these issues in addition to
their normal job. The team's work is usually more intense at the start of
incorporating ISO but after registration, they perform the internal audits
and other issues relating to the program. Top Management must buy into,
and understand what it takes to support this endeavor. If it is to be used
as a sales and marketing tool only, then it will be tougher to get going.
For example, we have 108 employees, and use six volunteers from various
departments to assist me. Now that the system is in place and working,
around 3-4 of them remain in the capacity of trainers, auditors or assist
with supporting the QMS during re-assessments by the outside auditor.
The best way to minimize the work to be done is to have as few a processes or written procedures as you can get by with and still meet the specification's requirements. Remember, they audit processes back to the
work being performed. Less is better.

[Rock-A-Bye-Baby]

That is a great help. thanks.

[schiada96]

First and foremost, have a Registrar or consultant (with credentials) perform a pre-assessment of your facility to determine what needs to be changed
or incorporated. If you already have a quality system in place such as
Mil-I-45208, etc.etc., then your foundation is already there and your people
understand a structured environment. It still will be a struggle because no
one likes changes or invasions to their work or workspace, but it can be
done.
It depends on how your system is set-up. If there are a lot of processes and procedures and many departments, you may have to get some clerical
assistance. However, some work can be delegated to the members of the
ISO internal team. These folks are the ones to be trained to perform audits,
write processes based on what is actually happening and to perform training to others. The ISO team is usually based on several employees from various
departments that have been allowed to work these issues in addition to
their normal job. The team's work is usually more intense at the start of
incorporating ISO but after registration, they perform the internal audits
and other issues relating to the program. Top Management must buy into,
and understand what it takes to support this endeavor. If it is to be used
as a sales and marketing tool only, then it will be tougher to get going.
For example, we have 108 employees, and use six volunteers from various
departments to assist me. Now that the system is in place and working,
around 3-4 of them remain in the capacity of trainers, auditors or assist
with supporting the QMS during re-assessments by the outside auditor.
The best way to minimize the work to be done is to have as few a processes or written procedures as you can get by with and still meet the specification's requirements. Remember, they audit processes back to the
work being performed. Less is better.
Want a job?
We just finished our audit 2 findings no majors. 170 person sheetmetal job shop
Can you imagine my life before every audit?

[Tremor Therapy]

You do need to keep one very big thought in mind! You are in a specific business, not the business of ISO! Keep the procedures short and to the point....write them to mimmick what you are actually doing, and where applicable, add the minimum to become compliant!
In the first company I was with we spent so much time trying to become ISO certified, I started to wonder if we actually did anything as a business. Once the 2001 standard was ratified, and working at a different company, it became much easier.
Kind of like the difference between old school hemorroid surgery and the new improved laser surgery....you heal faster, but still a pain in the arse! :hammer2:

[OLDRAT]

'96,
Thanks for the props.....My next job will be retirement, or become the piano
player at a whorehouse!! ;)

[v-drive]

Well, day two is over and when this auditor left we all looked at each other and said wtf was that. 180 degrees the other direction, she spent almost the entire day writing notes on her computer. She walked around a little but really didn't ask many questions and nothing pertaining to our procedures.
We don't know what to think now. :jawdrop: v-drive

[Kilrtoy]

Sorry for sounding stupid,
What is an ISO

[v-drive]

iso stands for International organization of standards. Simply put it is a quality management facilitator. I think :idea: v-drive

[Waldo]

Sorry for sounding stupid,
What is an ISO
Don't worry, I was going to ask the same thing. :confused:

[v-drive]

Don't worry, I was going to ask the same thing. :confused:
Don't feel bad, right now it should also stand for ignorant ******** old bitch!
:burningm: v-drive

[OLDRAT]

V,
Don't worry about it, and just relax for the rest of the weekend.
Await any reports and then discuss. Just make sure that any
findings she has are validated and explained. If you do not agree,
then issue a written rebuttal or clarification on any forms provided.
Basically, it is a template or written set of standards that allows
a business to standardize their management system. Even though
it is considered a Quality Management System or QMS, it really
affects the entire organization (less financial when designated)
and drives them to produce quality product or service in an honest
and consistent manner with the mindset to constantly improve.
It standardizes the way you do business by setting a set of
guidelines to establish goals and improve consistency of what you
do. Companies that participate are all given the same set of rules
and requirements and the auditors are suppost to make sure the
companies are meeting those requirements during visits.
It all boils down to trying to standardize businesses so customers
can be confident that they are getting a good product or service.
For me it has reduced some customer visits and audits and gives us
somewhat of a "foot-in-the-door" on new business, or an advantage
of a competitor which is not registered. And I must say, we have
improved several processes, reduced head-in-ass mistakes and
eliminated a lot of paperwork. Even Boss Hogg who had his doubts
can see the difference and agreed it was money not wasted in the
most part. I was very suprised to find after about a year of working
under the revised system, the hardline naysayers (including myself
sometimes), have agreed it did reduce some of their workload,
clarified unclear instructions and showed who was not being a
responsible employee.
It must be noted that you can revise your system to meet
ISO requirements without registration, since the basic requirements
are flexible, but most customers want an independent 3rd. party
(auditors) organization to review and certify the business.
It is just like politics :supp:
Oh, and Kilr, I must say Mel looks rather GQ in his new jacket :D

[v-drive]

Oldrat,man this woman is driving us nuts. she isn't staying on schedule and not even trying to hurry. She is still on day 2 agenda. It's 1:00PM now and her closing meeting is at 5. What happens if she doesn't finish before then?
...........v-drive

[OLDRAT]

If she gave you a written schedule, then hold her to it. I am sure she will
want to have a closing meeting before she leaves.
I bet she "magically" finishes on time. Just get the results and find out
when they need a reply and work on it when you are not so stressed.
Be sure and include the VP in the report and any response you provide
make sure you can prove it, and that you have managements blessing.
Once the auditor is gone, you can think more clearly.

[v-drive]

Well you pegged that one, she "magically" finished a whole day in a period of about 2 hours. we ended up with 5 minors and a few observances.
she did put the one in there from 3 years ago and we will respond to her boss about that. The bottom line is that we are now iso approved. thanks again for all of your insight.:D .....v-drive

[Dr. Eagle]

I just went through one at work here at Bechtel a while back. The ISO requires a standardized documented process for everything that is followed in the execution of whatever it is you are doing. This requires that each step be documented pursuant to the documentation standard.
It isn't horrible, but it is a pain in the butt. :boxed:

[v-drive]

It is normal to wake up from most nightmares. I wasn't complaining about the process but rather the idiot auditor and the way she conducted the audit.
I have been through two previous audits and can honestly say I have never been left this confused.... v-drive

[Dr. Eagle]

It is normal to wake up from most nightmares. I wasn't complaining about the process but rather the idiot auditor and the way she conducted the audit.
I have been through two previous audits and can honestly say I have never been left this confused.... v-drive
You never know what to expect when they show up or what they will focus on. I never like them, but they are usually pretty clear with their findings...
If your auditor wasn't, shame on her. :sqeyes: