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View Full Version : PG&E plus Chromium 6 at Topock= Bad News



Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 06:47 AM
About a year ago I became concerned when I learned of the plume of water contaminated with Chromium 6 that was said to be 125 feet from the rivers edge, just north of the Topock Bridge. This plume was said to be in the millions of gallons and for those of you that didn't see the movie "Erin Brockovich" you should be very aware that Chromium 6 (hexavalent chromium) is very dangerous to say the least. I contacted ADEQ and was assured by the way of numerous conversations that this situation was being handled in a prudent way and that the EPA,ADEQ, and various other government agencies were taking this very seriously, which I applauded but still had doubts about, after all PG&E is PG&E.
This mornings news was that they have now discovered the plume is 60 feet away from the river's edge and that was followed by a bunch of mumbo-jumbo talk of how it was too deep to reach the actual river or some crap like that. Maybe this is true, I dont know as I am only a dumb retired Operating Engineer (and proud of it, Local 12) but it seems to me that when they say that this plume of very,very toxic water is in the millions of gallons and that the extraction rate is 26,000 gallons a day, well it does not seem like enough is being done. of course now they say that they are going to step up the extraction rate!
I have become somewhat distrustful of what the Government tells us lately. I know that the power of the people is in the noise we make as a collective group so I implore you all to contact anybody and everybody about this situation and make them know the power of this board, strength in numbers! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

MagicMtnDan
02-24-2005, 06:59 AM
This is very serious stuff - thanks for bringing it to our attention. If I had kids I wouldn't want them anywhere near that stuff.
Can you give us more info? What's a plume? I know a plume of smoke but what do you mean when you say that? How is it 60' from the river and not leaching into the river now? Is it being contained in a pond - what is keeping it from leaching into the soil and the river?
Thanks again for posting this.

hot_diggity_dog
02-24-2005, 07:01 AM
Here's the old article from April 04!
Chromium cleanup in Topock (http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000117)
HDD :cool:

chub
02-24-2005, 07:11 AM
Who is ADEQ and how do we get ahold of them?
Card carrying member Operating Engineers Local 501!

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 07:14 AM
MMD- a plume is a body of under ground water. PG&E used this stuff to prevent rust in thier cooling towers way back when, then they used dispersion (percolation) ponds (unlined of course) to get rid of this stuff or at least this is what I understand about it, I'm not an engineer or chemist! All I know is that it scares the shit out of me and the news today was not good. get on the internet and you can find a lot of info and contacts so that we can put the pressure on to get this thing taken care of. If you ever are on the river just look to the west and you can see the extraction site. COME ON FOLKS, LET'TEM HEAR US NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Havasu_Dreamin
02-24-2005, 07:18 AM
From the Today's News Herald (http://www.havasunews.com/articles/2005/02/24/news/news03.txt) article in todays paper.
PG&E told to form contingency plan
BY MARK HALL
Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:17 PM MST
The California Environmental Protection Agency has mandated Pacific Gas & Electric company enact a contingency clean-up plan after a monitoring well detected hexavalent chromium about 60 feet from the Colorado River, near the Topock Compression Station.
The pumping site is about 25 miles upstream from Lake Havasu City, which also draws from the river for its drinking supply.
The move is part of an ongoing investigation the California agency started about a year ago after it was discovered that a large plume of chromium 6 had tainted groundwater near the river.
Potentially hazardous if inhaled, the PG&E used the substance to prevent corrosion in water-cooling towers for 18 years between 1951 and 1985. The untreated wastewater from the towers was dumped in nearby percolation ponds.
The most recent sample was obtained from a new well that detected a hexavalent chromium sample at 354 parts per billion (ppb), which exceeded California's drinking water standard of 50 ppb for total chromium. The well was drilled about 60 feet away from the river and approximately 70 feet below the elevation of the river.
However, samples from two shallower wells did not detect hexavalent chromium, nor was the substance found directly in the river.
"At this point, we are following our contingency plan; we do not have any indication that the contaminant has reached the river. We have required PG&E to enact the contingency plan as a preventive measure," B.B. Blevins, director of the Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC), said in a prepared statement.
When Today's News-Herald last reported on the issue in August 2004, the plume was reportedly 125 feet from the river's edge.
As part of the contingency plan, PG&E is mandated to conduct weekly sampling of floodplain wells; increase pumping from an extraction well, which is currently extracting and treating 70 gallons per minute; install another extraction well; and determine if current extraction is maintaining groundwater flow away from the river.
At a rate of 26,000 gallons per day, PG&E is currently pumping contaminated groundwater, which is hauled off in truckloads - about five or six a day - to a treatment facility in Los Angeles County.
PG&E began extracting groundwater last year and is constructing a new water treatment system to increase capacity, which is expected to go online in the next couple of months.
According to PG&E, because its current extraction system has maintained hydraulic control of the plume, the plume has not migrated and has been where the new well is drilled for some time.
"The consensus of hydrogeologists working on this project is that the plume has been at the new sampling location at this deeper level, far lower than the river nearby, for some time, and has not recently migrated there," according to a PG&E press release.
The company said it is working "diligently" to ensure the matter is remedied.
"Pacific Gas and Electric Company is fully committed to keeping hexavalent chromium out of the Colorado River," said Robert Harris, PG&E's vice president of environmental affairs. "The company is working diligently with the local, state and federal agencies and neighboring tribal sovereign nations to complete the expanded treatment system in an expedited timeframe to ensure the ongoing remediation of the groundwater near the Colorado River."
Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson, who has paid close attention to the issue since it was first reported, said he is pleased by the recent move.
"The last meeting I went to there was no scope or magnitude of what the problem really was," he said. "I'm glad they're taking it another step farther."
Reprinted without the permission of the Today's New Herald

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 08:12 AM
good poat Havasu Dreamin; I really hope the boat industry and the great people on these boards let thier voice be heard about this, it's very serious stuff, and for those of you that do not know how far 60 feet is, it's the distance from the pitchers rubber to the plate, not very GOD-DAMN far is it??? NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Rexone
02-24-2005, 09:27 AM
good poat Havasu Dreamin; I really hope the boat industry and the great people on these boards let thier voice be heard about this, it's very serious stuff, and for those of you that do not know how far 60 feet is, it's the distance from the pitchers rubber to the plate, not very GOD-DAMN far is it??? NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Or very little more than the average distance from your front door to the curb.
:2purples:

Sleek-Jet
02-24-2005, 09:28 AM
Who is ADEQ and how do we get ahold of them?
Card carrying member Operating Engineers Local 501!
Arizona Dept. of Enviromental Quality....
www.azdeq.gov

Mrs Luvnlife
02-24-2005, 09:35 AM
I dont know as I am only a dumb retired Operating Engineer (and proud of it, Local 12) but it seems to me that when they say
Is this B.V. here?? :idea:

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 09:45 AM
yes this is BV here but being a devote Charger fan I'm not allowed to reply to any one with DA RAIDERS insignia, who this be???? oh yeah, good luck with the biggest asshole in football, Mr. Randy (dick head) Moss, he is a perfect fit!! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Dr. Eagle
02-24-2005, 09:46 AM
after all PG&E is PG&E.
:
Up here in Northern California we like to refer to them as:
Pacific
Graft
&
Extortion

Mrs Luvnlife
02-24-2005, 09:49 AM
yes this is BV here but being a devote Charger fan I'm not allowed to reply to any one with DA RAIDERS insignia, who this be???? oh yeah, good luck with the biggest asshole in football, Mr. Randy (dick head) Moss, he is a perfect fit!! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Oh easy now, don't go hatin just cuz I'm a Raider fan :D, this is Jen the Mrs. to Cale....your good buddy that's a Raider fan too!! :D
I knew it had to be you, it just all kinda fell into place!! How are you guys? Tell Sue we said hi and hey, send us a couple pics via e-mail of your new baby, I'd love to see it!!

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 10:31 AM
Maybe Magic Mtn DAN's reply says it best. it's your life and your childrens lives we're talking about here. if the powers that be are so damn worried about mufflers on boats (puke,spit,vommit) then why in the hell is the roof not coming off on this crap that IS A SERIOUS THREAT!! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

RiverToysJas
02-24-2005, 10:42 AM
This is VERY serious business! If (nah - WHEN) that plume hits the river we are all DONE using that water from there south! Sounds too outragious to be true, but this is very very serious. I have not seen the Brokovich movie, but here's some info on what we're dealing with....
"Chromium-6 can cause severe health side effects. Often referred to as industrial chromium, Chromium-6 chemically reacts differently to other molecules.
Hazard Summary:
Contamination occurs when victims breath air or ingest water or food from soils near waste sites or industries using chromium. Common health effects include: deep ulcers to hands, nasal cancer, chrome ulcer, lung cancer, and inflammation of the liver or larynx. The latency period averages 10 to 15 years from the time of exposure. Studies have shown that the risk of respiratory cancer for chromate plant workers is twenty times greater than that for the general population. Furthermore, animal studies indicate that Chromium-6 is a carcinogen. Since humans, animals, and plants do not bioacccumulate (or build up) levels of chromium, exposure is generally considered acute and short-term.
Chromium-6 is a known human carcinogen that is generally inhaled by workers in industrial situations. Human cells readily absorb the toxin. Scandanavian researchers conducted autopsies on workers who were last exposed to Chromium-6 15 to 20 years before their deaths from lung cancer. They found high chromium levels present in tissue samples. Interestingly, the chromium found was not Chromium-6, but Chromium-3, because all chromium converts to Chromium-3 in tissue."
As a father, I cannot allow my kids to be put at that kind of risk. Who do we trust? The same people that put the stuff there are taking it away, and doing the testing! It's very scary, and deeply conserning to me. I am about as far removed from a "tree hugger" as one can be, but this far more serious than some rare weed, or natural landscape preservation. I really hope and pray they are doing all they can to make sure this situation doesn't get worse.
RTJas :mad:

Racer277
02-24-2005, 10:48 AM
You guys are talking about kids and recreating in the water.
Remember, the river south of topock hydrates all of southern ca.
What happens without that water supply?
This was on CNN last year. How conveniently it's been ignored.
And oh yeah, I trust PG&E to do the right thing. :angry2:

cdog
02-24-2005, 10:48 AM
Mabey that explains all the crazy shit that goes on at the sandbar. Seems to me that they do tests on this kind of stuff and if it was a serious threat the river would be shut down. Can you imagine the financial melt down to Havasu property and farming industry all the way down the river from topok south. Ouch. I can hear a class action lawsuit in the works.

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 11:40 AM
I dont want to beat this to death but I just recieved a reply from a very nice lady who is with ADEQ. This just stinks of the blind eye PG&E had in the town of Hinkely Ca. (again Erin Brockovich) where this Chromium 6 was brought out into the light. I may get in trouble for this but her e=mail is kilgore.kristy@azdeq.gov., please DO NOT READ THIS AND JUST LET IT GO. In so many words she stated that ADEQ is sad and disappointed about this turn of events and that PG&E's evaluation of the plume's definition (size & location) was incorrect!!!!!!!!!!!! She further indicated that, now get this and I mean really get it, ADEQ will now be testing on the Arizona side and THE RIVER ITSELF to see if there is any contamination. How can crap like this happen in todays world. I am only one person and I've yelled this at the top of my lungs since I found out about this 1 year ago but I really believe we should be seeing page after page on these boards because of the seriousness
of this situation. This stuff can make you very sick if you just breathe it. And just a footnote to this, 6 months ago they had a drill rig set up on the corner of Kiowa & 95 in Havasu, being nosy I investigated a little and found out that they were testing for YEP, YOU GUESSED IT, Chromium 6 because it was used when McCullough had its chain saw plant up the street and they used what they called the "KIOWA PONDS" to I guess get rid of this stuff. The newspaper and my source at ADEQ assured me that the findings indicated just a very small amount was found in our GROUNDWATER. Some how this does not put my mind to ease, how about you? In closing this as my last post
on this all I can say is PLEASE, WRITE,E-MAIL everybody you can because its the only way big business like PG&E will ever spend the money to correct this and do it quickly, AGAIN, IT'S 60 FEET from the river as we speak and that just scares the shit out of me!!! Thanks NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Havasu_Dreamin
02-24-2005, 11:59 AM
I e-mailed the District 1 Supervisor of San Bernardino County about this.

Unforgiven
02-24-2005, 12:09 PM
NO COMMENT........You guys are talking about kids and recreating in the water.
Remember, the river south of topock hydrates all of southern ca.
What happens without that water supply?
This was on CNN last year. How conveniently it's been ignored.
And oh yeah, I trust PG&E to do the right thing. :angry2:

Seadog
02-24-2005, 12:33 PM
First off, it is only 60 feet horizontally, but 70 feet vertically, which means it is probably over 90 feet actual distance. Not defending PG&E, but most utilities used chromium in water towers until they found out that it had a long term effect. In the fifties and sixties, there were a lot of cases where nobody realized the long term affect that some chemicals may have. There are a lot of problems created because of this, but also a lot of misinformation created by radical groups and lawyers who could care less about the truth if it does not serve their goals.
Instead of everyone suing, what needs to be done here is to have PG&E do what needs to be done. They are monitoring and cleaning up now. It just sounds like they need to intensify that effort. What would concern me is the politicians and lawyers getting into it. They have a habit of grinding cleanup efforts to a standstill while they debate and study the issue. Then when it gets really bad, they will blame those trying to do the cleanup.

Sleek-Jet
02-24-2005, 12:41 PM
Using a little basic trig.... the leading edge of the plume is 92.2 feet from the surface edge of the river.
I know we are all outraged, but does anyone have a solution???

gnarley
02-24-2005, 12:45 PM
It's only a matter of time before the plume reaches the river and then all the people who get their water from the Colorado will need to make some hard decisions.
Boy is the S H I T is going hit the fan when that happens :2purples:

rivrbrat
02-24-2005, 12:57 PM
I don’t know about all this scientific mum boo jumbo, but I have been told that there are a number of families and fellow boaters that live on the California side of the lake that were previous residents of Hinckley California and suffered through the original contamination by the PG&E in Hinckley California. I have seen these families board their boats transferring numerous kids and adults from wheelchairs to their boats, and I would say it’s a pretty sad site and it doesn’t look very good. My hearts goes out to them. Hopefully them being fellow boater’s maybe they are hot boat members, them or family friends, maybe somebody will chime in and give us exact info on the results of being contaminated with that crap.

R.A.D.man
02-24-2005, 01:55 PM
The monitoring well which has tested positive for the Chromium is 60-feet from the river, not the plume. This means the plume is beyond that well. Until they get a negative result beyond that well, the plume has not been defined.
Just curious, but is this site on one of the lakes or on a section of flowing river?

chub
02-24-2005, 01:56 PM
Arizona Dept. of Enviromental Quality....
www.azdeq.gov
Thank You Very Much!

Havasu_Dreamin
02-24-2005, 01:57 PM
Just curious, but is this site on one of the lakes or on a section of flowing river?
Based on the descriptions it is on what I would think you are referring to as the flowing river.

FRENCHIE
02-24-2005, 02:12 PM
not good, no more topac for us in a few seasons..im not even gonna risk it!! :wink:

Not So Fast
02-24-2005, 02:12 PM
the guys from Texas and Oklahomo sound like they may work for PG&E! :2purples: NSF

Sleek-Jet
02-24-2005, 02:14 PM
More reading about the Topock Pumping station.
http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/SiteCleanup/PGE_Topock/
Looks like PG&E is being required to install a treatment facility and increase the amount of ground water pumped, immediately.

Mrs.Racer277
02-24-2005, 02:15 PM
NO COMMENT........
I was wondering if you would comment! :idea:

Havasu_Dreamin
02-24-2005, 02:26 PM
From the link SleekJet provided:
CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
NEWS RELEASE
Department of Toxic Substances Control
T - 10 - 05 Contact: Jeanne Garcia
For Immediate Release 818.551.2176
February 22, 2005 Ron Baker
916.324.3142
DTSC Requires Pacific Gas and Electric’s Topock Facility to Initiate Contingency Plan
Los Angeles --- The California Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC) today announced it has required Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) to enact its contingency plan after preliminary results from a sample taken from a new groundwater monitoring well located approximately 60 feet from the Colorado River detected hexavalent chromium. The sample detected hexavalent chromium at 354 parts per billion (ppb) which exceeded the State of California drinking water standard of 50 ppb for total chromium. The new well was installed as part of DTSC’s ongoing investigations at PG&E’s Topock facility located near Needles, San Bernardino County.
DTSC’s actions were based on preliminary laboratory results taken on February 14, 2005 from a newly installed ground water monitoring well (MW-34-100) located approximately 60 feet away from the Colorado River. The preliminary sample was collected approximately 70 feet below the bottom elevation of the Colorado River. Samples collected from two shallower wells at the same location were non-detect for hexavalent chrominum. In addition, river water samples collected at the same time did not detect any hexavalent chrominum.
“At this point, we are following our contingency plan; we do not have any indication that the contaminant has reached the river. We have required PG&E to enact the contingency plan as a preventive measure,” said B.B. Blevins, DTSC Director.
Upon notification of laboratory results, DTSC immediately required PG&E to implement the DTSC approved contingency plan as outlined under Interim Measure #2 which occurred in March 2004. The plan includes:
• Conduct weekly sampling of selected floodplain wells
• Increase pumping from Extraction Well TW-2D up to the maximum available capacity of the treatment system (currently extracting and treating 70 gallons per minute)
• Install another extraction well near MW-34-100
• Determine if current extraction is maintaining groundwater flow away from the Colorado River in the area
In addition, PG&E will continue to install additional groundwater monitoring wells to further define the extent of ground water contamination near the river.
PG&E has owned and operated the Topock Compressor Station, located about 15 miles southeast of Needles, since 1951. PG&E uses the Topock facility to compress natural gas for transportation through pipelines to its service territory in Central and Northern California. Hexavalent chromium was used as an additive in cooling tower water as a corrosion inhibitor between 1951 and 1985.
At the direction of DTSC, PG&E began extracting ground water as part of an Interim Measure in March 2004. PG&E is currently constructing a new water treatment system under Interim Measure #3 to increase groundwater treatment capacity. The expanded treatment system is anticipated to be operational mid 2005.
DTSC, as the lead agency for the site investigation and cleanup, is collaborating with a consultative workgroup including the Regional Water Quality Control Board, Colorado River Region, United States Environmental Protection Agency - Region 9, United States Department of the Interior, United States Bureau of Land Management, United States Bureau of Reclamation, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, Arizona Department of Environmental Quality, and the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. In addition, DTSC is coordinating with the local Native American tribal representatives.

Sleek-Jet
02-24-2005, 02:27 PM
I dont want to beat this to death but I just recieved a reply from a very nice lady who is with ADEQ. This just stinks of the blind eye PG&E had in the town of Hinkely Ca. (again Erin Brockovich) where this Chromium 6 was brought out into the light. I may get in trouble for this but her e=mail is kilgore.kristy@azdeq.gov., please DO NOT READ THIS AND JUST LET IT GO. In so many words she stated that ADEQ is sad and disappointed about this turn of events and that PG&E's evaluation of the plume's definition (size & location) was incorrect!!!!!!!!!!!! She further indicated that, now get this and I mean really get it, ADEQ will now be testing on the Arizona side and THE RIVER ITSELF to see if there is any contamination. How can crap like this happen in todays world. I am only one person and I've yelled this at the top of my lungs since I found out about this 1 year ago but I really believe we should be seeing page after page on these boards because of the seriousness
of this situation. This stuff can make you very sick if you just breathe it. And just a footnote to this, 6 months ago they had a drill rig set up on the corner of Kiowa & 95 in Havasu, being nosy I investigated a little and found out that they were testing for YEP, YOU GUESSED IT, Chromium 6 because it was used when McCullough had its chain saw plant up the street and they used what they called the "KIOWA PONDS" to I guess get rid of this stuff. The newspaper and my source at ADEQ assured me that the findings indicated just a very small amount was found in our GROUNDWATER. Some how this does not put my mind to ease, how about you? In closing this as my last post
on this all I can say is PLEASE, WRITE,E-MAIL everybody you can because its the only way big business like PG&E will ever spend the money to correct this and do it quickly, AGAIN, IT'S 60 FEET from the river as we speak and that just scares the shit out of me!!! Thanks NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Since the compressor site and the contamination is in Californian, ADEQ probably has very little jurisdiction in the mater, until contamination is found either in the river, or on the AZ side.

R.A.D.man
02-24-2005, 03:07 PM
Based on the descriptions it is on what I would think you are referring to as the flowing river.
Thanks. Just trying to picture the scene.

R.A.D.man
02-24-2005, 03:20 PM
the guys from Texas and Oklahomo sound like they may work for PG&E! :2purples: NSF
Nope, not me.
I was trying to say the plume is closer to the river than the stated 60-feet. If I was with a company such as PG&E I sure wouldn't try and hurt my case. I am in the drilling business so I can answer related questions. This looks to be a bad problem and it shouldn't be allowed to fade away.

chub
02-24-2005, 05:24 PM
Nope, not me.
I was trying to say the plume is closer to the river than the stated 60-feet. If I was with a company such as PG&E I sure wouldn't try and hurt my case. I am in the drilling business so I can answer related questions. This looks to be a bad problem and it shouldn't be allowed to fade away.
I agree and if you boat up here or drink the water you shouldn't either. We need to be careful that the tree huggers don't turn this into a everyone needs to stay off the river thing but also show to evreyone with power of authority that this is not acceptable. I wrote an e-mail to PG&E today to RFI
what there intent to remediate was. I 'll try and figure out how to post it as I'm not so good at this.

chub
02-24-2005, 05:29 PM
not good, no more topac for us in a few seasons..im not even gonna risk it!! :wink:
Do you get your tap water from the Colorado river? if so buy bottled for everything. Oh Havasu will be of limits also. Major ramifications here. We have to walk a fine line between tree huggin mfers that don't like us boating and wall street powerhouses that don't GAF. and it's Topock not Tupac :D

bohica
02-24-2005, 05:45 PM
God dam Topack tweekers. See Chub, you guys gotta always be effing things up. :D

Ziggy
02-24-2005, 05:55 PM
Not being scientifically minded, it seems to me that if this chromium reaches the river, wouldn't the PPM reading change by means of dilution or can this only be altered by means of treatment? I mean, flowing water would disperse and lower the PPM count to tolerable levels, would it not???
This don't make me too happy to be standing around the sandbar thinking about this crap.
PG&E, here comes my two bits of concern too, if we all send in two bits they will add up.....someone has to oil our squeeky hinge and fix this shit. :mad:

ShannyShan
02-24-2005, 08:13 PM
Just thought I would mention that I posted a link to this thread on the glamis dunes website, under river rats.

RiverToysJas
02-25-2005, 12:09 AM
I have linked it on OP6 as well.
Can we get this thread made "STICKY"?
RTJas

R.A.D.man
02-25-2005, 06:35 AM
[QUOTE=Ziggy]Not being scientifically minded, it seems to me that if this chromium reaches the river, wouldn't the PPM reading change by means of dilution or can this only be altered by means of treatment? I mean, flowing water would disperse and lower the PPM count to tolerable levels, would it not???
Ziggy, I believe the Chromium 6 will be in solution, meaning it is dissolved in the water, and it would dilute the PPM readings at the point of contact initially, but that is no answer to the problem. As the plume migrates outward, higher concentrations come with it and ultimately, you will have loss of life in the river. It was stated in an earlier post that the Chromium 6 was used as a "corrosion inhibitor", it is also a biocide and will inhibit the growth of algae.

Not So Fast
02-25-2005, 07:29 AM
Let me try to understand this, right now the plume of contamination is more or less being confined by the ground itself which acts like a dam? If and when the plume would break thru the earth or actually leach it's way to the river that would that be like a break in a dam and allow the plume to move more freely towards the river?? I know that on info I recieved from ADEQ that they were worried about the normal drop in the winter flow of the river and as we all know, shit runs downhill, therefore the plume would migrate to the lower level of the river!! I say if this is indeed the case then why did the Department of Toxic Sustances Clean-up not demand that PG&E do something to increase and hasten the clean-up effort, I personally have visited the site and activity or lack of it was why I first contacted ADEQ. As I said in an earlier thread, 26,000 gal a day (about 4 or 5 tanker trucks) is a drop in the bucket when the size of the ground water contaminated by our old friends PG&E, is said to be in the millions of gallons!!! Let me answer my own question, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. It would cost more right, so why did all of these government agencies look at this and think it was a good effort and would solve the problem, again because of the pressure of a mega giant
business like PG&E. it just stinks of graft and corruption to me.I have no sympathy for these assholes whatsoever, get the job done what ever it costs so that this does not turn into a national disaster. and to the guy who thinks it would all dissapate (the chromium 6)I say come on down and take a swim if and when this tragedy occurs, it'll be OK, just ask PG&E!!! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

Freak
02-25-2005, 07:46 AM
Rocket fuel chemical found in mothers' milk
Level in human samples 5 times higher than in cows, study findsThe Associated Press
Updated: 2:34 p.m. ET Feb. 24, 2005LUBBOCK, Texas - A toxic chemical used in rocket fuel was found in virtually every sample taken in a new study of nursing mothers' milk, but researchers said it is too early to know whether the perchlorate levels are dangerous.
The multistate study by Texas Tech University researchers, published this week, found that perchlorate levels in breast milk samples were on average five times higher than those detected in dairy milk pulled from grocery stores.
Perchlorate has been linked to thyroid ailments, and is considered particularly dangerous to children. It has been found in drinking water supplies in 35 states and also in vegetables. While the chemical occurs naturally, the National Academy of Sciences has said most of the contamination is from its use in rocket fuels, fireworks and explosives.
Widespread contamination in California
Contamination is especially widespread in California because of the many current and former defense and space program sites in the state.
According to public health advocates, perchlorate is in the water that supplies more than 16 million Californians. It has also been found in the Colorado River, the major source of drinking water and irrigation in Southern California and Arizona.
California Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer said the study underscored concerns about the chemical. Boxer sent a letter to state and federal health officials asking them to determine whether mothers should have their breast milk tested before breast-feeding.
"We've got to come to grips with the perchlorate situation quickly," Feinstein said in a statement. "And EPA has to move quickly to set a national drinking water standard that protects the health and safety of all Americans."
However, the milk study shouldn't raise "undue alarm" because the seriousness of its findings is unclear, said Ed Urbansky, a former Environmental Protection Agency chemist who has published several papers on perchlorate. He was not involved with the study.
"It's very difficult to determine what the findings might be other than to know it might be in so many milk samples," he said. "It's important not to raise undue alarm over the significance of the finding.
"We shouldn't be running through the streets screaming and not drinking milk because of this."
For the study, conducted over a two-year period, researchers obtained milk from more than 20 women selected at random and from stores in 23 states. It was funded out of researchers' pockets and published online Tuesday in the journal Environmental Science and Technology.
The average reading in the study was 10.5 parts per billion, less than half of the EPA's newly established safe exposure level of 24.5 parts per billion in drinking water.
The highest reading among the mothers in the Tech study was 92 parts per billion. In dairy milk, all but one of 47 samples had detectable levels of the chemical. No samples were above 11 parts per billion.
Pernendu Dasgupta, a Tech chemistry professor who led the study, said it "raises more questions than answers" but hopes it helps people become more aware.

Seadog
02-25-2005, 08:07 AM
I have been indirectly involved with the Tar Creek problem and have found that getting politicians involved with a problem only causes more problems. We had one plan supported by the state that was going to move eveyone out to a new location and then turn the area into a wetlands that would allow nature to restore itself. A member of congress stepped in to support the few families that did not want to move. The result was that nothing got done, the town is dying, yet they are spending millions on roads and buildings to try to make the town more attractive. The cheapest and best thing would have been to relocate the town. Everyone would have gotten a new home and it would have cost a lot less money.
My point is that as long as there is a program going on, give it a chance. PG&E does not want the cost of this stuff getting into the lake.

Not So Fast
02-25-2005, 08:45 AM
For Gods sake Seadog, you dont seem to get it. PG&E has known about this Hexavalent Chromium stuff for years and since it was used in many different locations then why has there not been a program to alleviate this contamination post haste. Give it a chance huh? Well,Topock Gorge (or the pumping station actually just north) is contaminated and thats a fact, why has this cleanup project taken so long to get under way in the first place especially since the compressor station was in such close proximity to one of the most important water ways in the U.S.!!! We are talking about the contamination of the COLORADO RIVER!!!Give them a chance you say, they started this particular cleanup almost 1 year ago (feeble as it is) and the results, the plume in now (maybe closer) 50% closer than it was when they started pumping, does it sound like we are winning the battle??? Why has the DTSC issued an order to PG&E (just with-in the past day or so)to expedite thier contingency plan to step up the extraction of this crap, WHY, because thier efforts ARE FAILING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You actually think that the bottom line is not in dollars and cents, God your reasoning amazes me! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:

RiverToysJas
02-25-2005, 09:59 AM
Let me try to understand this, right now the plume of contamination is more or less being confined by the ground itself which acts like a dam? If and when the plume would break thru the earth or actually leach it's way to the river that would that be like a break in a dam and allow the plume to move more freely towards the river??
I remember reading a year or two ago that the plume was migrating towards the river, it always has been. That's why this has always been a race against time.
RTJas :(

Sleek-Jet
02-25-2005, 10:34 AM
NSF....
How does ADEQ have any jurisdiction on the California side of the river??? You've stated this twice now that ADEQ is not doing anything, but they can't inforce Arizona laws in California, at least I don't think they can.
If you really want to get outraged at something, how about the 110,000 gal. of radioactive water being spilled into the river every day in Moab???
Did you read anything in the link I posted?? The initial wells showed no signs of contamination, this was confirmed by an independent lab. Only a few years ago did the contamination start to show up in the wells, that's when the water removal started. It is also interesting to note that the reports state the ground water tends to flow away from the river as river levels rise, while ground water migrates towards the river during times of low river levels. I'm not a hydrologist, but the rise in contamination levels could be because of the lower river levels in the last few years due to the drought.
Everyone is starting to scream, "SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE".... I'm still waiting for an alternitive to PG&E's plan to be presented.

RiverToysJas
02-25-2005, 10:44 AM
Everyone is starting to scream, "SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE".... I'm still waiting for an alternitive to PG&E's plan to be presented.
I think they are doing most of what they can already. It's just sad and frustraiting that it's gotten to this level! I'm in shock that I may not be able to allow my kids to play on the beaches of the gorge anymore, or even use the "sandbar" area at Blankenship Bend. :(
Here's a map of the area affected......
http://www.azdeq.gov/function/about/images/fig1.jpg
and a diagram...
http://www.azdeq.gov/function/about/images/fig2.jpg
Here's where I got those photos..... (http://www.azdeq.gov/function/about/chromium.html)
RTJas

RiverToysJas
02-25-2005, 10:51 AM
Here are the FAQ's from that website, I felt a little better after reading them...
What is Chromium?
Chromium is a naturally occurring element found in rocks, animals, plants, soil, and in volcanic dust and gases. Chromium is present in the environment in several different forms. The most common forms are chromium 0, chromium 3, and chromium 6, or hexavalent chromium. No taste or odor is associated with chromium compounds.
What happens to chromium when it enters the environment?
In air, chromium compounds are present mostly as fine dust particles which can eventually settle over land and water. Chromium can also attach to soil and eventually, move deeper in the soil to groundwater.
How might I be exposed to chromium, and what are the health effects associated with chromium exposure?
Exposure to chromium occurs from ingesting food, drinking water or breathing workplace air contaminated with chromium. Breathing high levels of chromium 6 can cause irritation to the nose, such as runny nose, nosebleeds, and ulsers and holes in the nasal septum. Ingesting large amounts of chromium 6 can cause stomach pains and ulcers, convulsions, kidney and liver damage and death.
What are the applicable Arizona standards for protection of human health?
The Aquifer Water Quality Standard for total chromium is 100 parts per billion (ppb) for protection of groundwater sources for drinking water use. The surface water quality standard for Domestic Use and for Full Body Contact (which applies to the Colorado river) is also 100 ppb.
What other Arizona chromium standards apply for the Colorado River?
The river is considered cold water above Topock and warm water below Topock. The most restrictive Arizona Surface Water Quality Standard for hexavalent chromium is the Aquatic and Wildlife warm (A&Ww) chronic standard of 11 micrograms per liter (ug/l). The acute A&Ww standard is 16 ug/l and the Drinking Water Source (DWS) standard is 21 ug/l. The standard for total chromium is 100 ug/l for DWS and Full Body Contact.
I live on the Colorado River and enjoy water sports on the River and at Lake Havasu - am I at risk of Chromium exposure?
To address this concern, ADEQ collected surface water samples on the Colorado River and at Lake Havasu. Sampling locations are shown in our Fact Sheet and related figures. No hexavalent chromium was detected in the samples collected by ADEQ.
Water from the Lake and River are used for many uses - am I protected?
Sampling performed by ADEQ did not detect hexavalent chromium in surface water. ADEQ will continue to study chromium on the Colorado River and will continue to participate in consultative workgroup meetings to ensure that steps taken by PG&E protect surface and drinking water and groundwater and drinking water are safe.
Is the compressor station located across the Colorado River from the PG&E site a source of hexavalent chromium?
ADEQ is looking into this matter. The Mohave Topock compressor station and the Needle Mountain Gas Plant discharge has been and remains regulated by two permits for discharges to the Colorado River - an Aquifer Protection Permit (APP) and a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit both issued in 1992. The discharge limit for total chromium (of which hexavalent chromium is one component) in the APP was established at 50 ppb, ½ the Aquifer Water Quality Standard and drinking water MCL of 100 ppb.
USEPA did not establish a chromium limit in the NPDES permit.
To make sure that water resources are not at risk ADEQ collected samples at the discharge point from the Arizona compressor stations to the Colorado River and downstream in the River. No hexavalent chromium was detected in the sample with a detection level of 10 ppb.
ADEQ has requested information from El Paso Natural Gas regarding whether or not chromium containing compounds were ever used at the Mohave Topock Compressor station and Needle Mountain Gas Plant for corrosion and scale inhibition in the cooling system. When additional information has been obtained, ADEQ will respond to make sure that water resources continue to be protected.
RTJas

Sleek-Jet
02-25-2005, 10:58 AM
Agreed. My comments are not directed in your direction RTJ. I don't want to see the River shut down, or limit it's use in anyway, it's just that some people seem more intent on chasing windmills than try to help fix the problem. Maybe they have access to more and better information than I do, but they haven't stated so. Maybe they are experts in hazardous material remediation and clean up, I know I'm not.
I have access to Google like everyone else. In fifteen minutes of research I found information biased on both sides as well as more nuetral. The link I posted seemed to have the most usefull information to me, that's why I put it up.
Will the plume make it to the River??? It probably has, but is below the level of the river bottom. Will the river become contaminated??? We'll have to wait and see. Is PG&E's response enough to prevent contamination??? I'm not enough of an expert to guess. However, the company is doing something to try and prevent the river from being contaminated.
I don't believe in a grand benevolent big company, nor do I believe that any company would maliciously try and prevent the cleanup of a site such as this.

Unforgiven
02-25-2005, 02:24 PM
I was wondering if you would comment! :idea:
due to who I work for...I can't make comments...sorry

Seadog
02-25-2005, 02:41 PM
NSF, you are in a panic/uproar/funk over something that has not happened yet. Yes there is a concern here, but if people go off half-cocked, it will only make the situation worse. You may not have any faith in PG&E as a humanitarian operation, which is good, because they have to operate as a business, but realize that from a business point of view, they are very concerned about getting this under control. It may be that something will go awry no matter what is done, but any business will bust a gut to make sure that they do not have to pay out the hundreds of salivating mad dog lawyers that want a shot at any lawsuit. If they cannot control this, it will cost them ten times the amount of cleanup. Good incentive. And don't forget, that if the lawyers get involved, it will not be the administrators who pay out. It will be the customers who will see their rates double or triple to pay out all the attorney fees.
It is important for peope to keep a close eye on this, but also important that they realize that there is a time to trust those who are working to correct the situation.

little rowe boat
02-25-2005, 02:50 PM
This is the kind of stuff that scares the sh!t out of me.How long are we going to be safe going to Havasu,should we allow our kids to swim in the water? many questions now

4day!!
02-25-2005, 03:55 PM
any chance that some of the local and so. cal. boat manufacturers might get involved. They stand to lose alot of business if this gets worse. I would hope the people of havasu are paying attention to this and speaking up as well. Glad i didn't buy that property last year..
Can you just imagine Katherines if there becomes a major contamination issue from Topock south.

LUVNLIFE
02-25-2005, 07:16 PM
yes this is BV here but being a devote Charger fan I'm not allowed to reply to any one with DA RAIDERS insignia, who this be???? oh yeah, good luck with the biggest asshole in football, Mr. Randy (dick head) Moss, he is a perfect fit!! NSF :2purples: :2purples: :2purples:
Bobby this is Cale. Good to see and hear from you again. I'll shoot you a PM. :wink:

LUVNLIFE
02-25-2005, 07:22 PM
NSF, you are in a panic/uproar/funk over something that has not happened yet. Yes there is a concern here, but if people go off half-cocked, it will only make the situation worse. You may not have any faith in PG&E as a humanitarian operation, which is good, because they have to operate as a business, but realize that from a business point of view, they are very concerned about getting this under control. It may be that something will go awry no matter what is done, but any business will bust a gut to make sure that they do not have to pay out the hundreds of salivating mad dog lawyers that want a shot at any lawsuit. If they cannot control this, it will cost them ten times the amount of cleanup. Good incentive. And don't forget, that if the lawyers get involved, it will not be the administrators who pay out. It will be the customers who will see their rates double or triple to pay out all the attorney fees.
It is important for peope to keep a close eye on this, but also important that they realize that there is a time to trust those who are working to correct the situation.
I don't think NSF meant it as a panic or uproar as much as to bring it to everyones attention so we are aware of the situation. If PGE is at fault they should be held accountable and get the shit cleaned up. Noone here wants anything to do with a contaminated river, let alone with C6. That is were we play and the more people knowing means more pressure to get it right. It's not like PGE hasn't made alot of money and can't clean it up. I'm not going to harp on the money made issue but on the fact that we don't want health probs and a shut down playground due to a company not taking responsibility.

Not So Fast
02-26-2005, 01:03 PM
Well Said , Cale Nsf

shueman
02-26-2005, 10:41 PM
This is the kind of stuff that scares the sh!t out of me.How long are we going to be safe going to Havasu,should we allow our kids to swim in the water? many questions now
There's alot more marine/human pollution in the Channel on a big week-end that I would be concerned with...

GMFL
03-03-2005, 06:06 PM
Has anyone heard any new information about this? Not So Fast seemed to have a lot of piss and vinegar in him and then....nothing.

Not So Fast
03-03-2005, 06:21 PM
Lots of piss and vinegar, YEP. I have talked (emails) to ADEQ and this situation is being watched very closely, look for my new thread about this (Topock update) and in which I state just what has been told me with the lead agency Email addresses and contacts. Thanks NSF :2purples:

LUVNLIFE
03-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Has anyone heard any new information about this? Not So Fast seemed to have a lot of piss and vinegar in him and then....nothing.
I've known NSF for quite some time. In fact he was instrumental in making me the productive worker that I am today. ;) He taught me a few things. He is like a bulldog, he won't let it go. If I know him he is fact finding right now to make sure he knows the latest. Details from these kind of situations don't come daily but every few weeks at best. He will update as he gets info I'm sure. :)

Not So Fast
03-04-2005, 08:42 AM
Thank you Cale!! And yes i'm talking on a regular basis with ADEQ, will keep the boards updated, infact i have an update on right now with names and ##'S to contact, thanks again!! NSF

reilly
05-01-2006, 07:27 PM
Why are you people so worried about Chromium 6? I am a native Topockian and am disgusted with you people. you people complain about how there is chromium 6 and "oh my god my baby. i dont want them swimming in that! how dare they! I am outraged" what do you think is oing more damage to the environment? A plume of chromium 6; or the thousands of boats daily on the river. You do more damage to the environment and people by polluting the air with your huge boats and sea doos. I choose not to go to the river on a boat; and just go to a beach by either walking or riding in a car. you uneccesarily waste gass by going up and down the river for no reason except your own pleasure; not caring what adverse effects all of the co2 and carbon monoxide have on the environment. i am disgusted with everyone here. Why dont all of you go back home to where you belong. no one in topock wants you here because you are rude, bad for the environment, pollute my local river with your trash (i get my drinking water from the river), arrogant, take up all the river space, disrespectful to the land in other ways, and you whine too much. the only people who want you here are businesses that explooit the environment with you and take your money. (The topock Marina) Why dont you go home and destroy your own land. I am disgusted with all of you. especially when you complain about how "i dont want my children swimming in that." And " how dare they do that to the river" when you cause more damage to it. go home please. by the way; ***boat sucks and so does the topock Marina.

Kilrtoy
05-01-2006, 07:31 PM
Well now that I know how you feel, I will run my two strokes outboards a little longer while in topock.

Mandelon
05-01-2006, 07:47 PM
Nice. Kingman public schools? :rolleyes:

Beer-30
05-01-2006, 07:53 PM
Interesting first post! I think you got confused on the website, though. This isn't greenpeace.com

Ultrafied
05-01-2006, 08:00 PM
Maybe a little too much sugar before posting? :D

SummitKarl
05-01-2006, 08:21 PM
Why are you people so worried about Chromium 6? I am a native Topockian and am disgusted with you people. you people complain about how there is chromium 6 and "oh my god my baby. i dont want them swimming in that! how dare they! I am outraged" what do you think is oing more damage to the environment? A plume of chromium 6; or the thousands of boats daily on the river. You do more damage to the environment and people by polluting the air with your huge boats and sea doos. I choose not to go to the river on a boat; and just go to a beach by either walking or riding in a car. you uneccesarily waste gass by going up and down the river for no reason except your own pleasure; not caring what adverse effects all of the co2 and carbon monoxide have on the environment. i am disgusted with everyone here. Why dont all of you go back home to where you belong. no one in topock wants you here because you are rude, bad for the environment, pollute my local river with your trash (i get my drinking water from the river), arrogant, take up all the river space, disrespectful to the land in other ways, and you whine too much. the only people who want you here are businesses that explooit the environment with you and take your money. (The topock Marina) Why dont you go home and destroy your own land. I am disgusted with all of you. especially when you complain about how "i dont want my children swimming in that." And " how dare they do that to the river" when you cause more damage to it. go home please. by the way; ***boat sucks and so does the topock Marina.
Well Reilly, it seems you been sucking some of that Chromium 6 yourself, being as all of us in Mohave county get our water from the Water table and not the river.
next up for the ignorant, "That's you Reilly" Co2 is a gas and it dissipates in the atmosphere...
now for the dumbest part of your statement....telling the Hot Boaters to go home....Reilly you ignorant jackass...these people provide a large part of our economy..they provide the needs for goods and services that allow us to have jobs here...you know what a job is don't you Reilly...it's that thing that puts a roof over your head and food on your table :rolleyes:

ROZ
05-01-2006, 08:56 PM
Reilly musta just gotz a compture :)
I'm a naitive Californian, so I tell ya what... You get all the transplans out of my state, and I'll help you with your problem...
I would ask if you'd like any cheese with that whine, but you wouldn't nderstand...
:D

Magic34
05-01-2006, 09:23 PM
not caring what adverse effects all of the co2 and carbon monoxide have on the environment..
Just to let you know, you should try taking some plant biology courses. In college at ASU, not too long ago (graduated in 2001), I had a professor who was actually sent into speak with congress about how the plants/trees can actually benefit from all the carbon monoxide and it removes a lot of it as well.
Sure, dont take my word, but maybe this NASA research might help with your research if you are willing or able to conduct any.
http://www.flowers.org.uk/plants/health/carbon-removal2.htm

RiverToysJas
05-01-2006, 10:43 PM
Why are you people so worried about Chromium 6? I am a native Topockian and am disgusted with you people. you people complain about how there is chromium 6 and "oh my god my baby. i dont want them swimming in that! how dare they! I am outraged" what do you think is oing more damage to the environment? A plume of chromium 6; or the thousands of boats daily on the river. You do more damage to the environment and people by polluting the air with your huge boats and sea doos. I choose not to go to the river on a boat; and just go to a beach by either walking or riding in a car. you uneccesarily waste gass by going up and down the river for no reason except your own pleasure; not caring what adverse effects all of the co2 and carbon monoxide have on the environment. i am disgusted with everyone here. Why dont all of you go back home to where you belong. no one in topock wants you here because you are rude, bad for the environment, pollute my local river with your trash (i get my drinking water from the river), arrogant, take up all the river space, disrespectful to the land in other ways, and you whine too much. the only people who want you here are businesses that explooit the environment with you and take your money. (The topock Marina) Why dont you go home and destroy your own land. I am disgusted with all of you. especially when you complain about how "i dont want my children swimming in that." And " how dare they do that to the river" when you cause more damage to it. go home please. by the way; ***boat sucks and so does the topock Marina.
Well that settles it......I had no idea you felt this way. Anyone want to but a Laveycraft???? :rolleyes:
BTW Reilly, we're not arrogant, we're just better than other people! ;) Sometimes when I'm standing on the back of my boat drifting towards Topok, I look out across the land and think about what it would be like to live in such a beautiful place....then....when I finish peeing, I forgot all about it and continue down to the sandbar for some real fun. :rollside:
RTJas :D

Charley
05-01-2006, 10:52 PM
I look out across the land and think about what it would be like to live in such a beautiful place....then....when I finish peeing, I forgot all about it and continue down to the sandbar for some real fun. :rollside:
RTJas :D
Thanks Jason! now the place where my kids swim is contaminated with coorslightium :cry:

RiverToysJas
05-01-2006, 10:54 PM
Wait I just realized, I my boat is not huge or a Sea-doo! Maybe I'm not part of the problem after all!!! :)
On a more serious note....I follow this story and here's the latest. April 5th, I emailed the Project Coordinator for ADEQ, asking for an update on the Chromium 6 at Topok, here's the reply I got the next day.........
_____________________________________________
Hello Jason - good to hear from you. We will be updating our website
shortly as we wrap up the ADEQ Topock Groundwater Study and finish our
report. Our findings should be posted in July or August - we are
currently collecting our last data and evaluating the data.
To date, no Cr6 has been detected in the river samples nor in pore water
samples collected at 6 feet below the river in the sediments - so this
is all good news for the river. PG&E will continue to perform routine
sampling in the river.
Our focus at the moment is deeper in the hydrologic system and on
requesting that PG&E define the eastern edge of the plume approximately
200 feet beneath the river at the bedrock surface.
California DTSC continues to direct interim (emergency) measures to
protect the river. Two groundwater extraction wells are operational and
are pulling groundwater inland to control the plume and keep the heavier
contamination in California groundwater from moving to the east and
beneath the river.
We are currently posting a second health consultation on our websites.
To date the finding for Arizona wells is of no adverse health impact. We
will continue to keep and eye on the situation, review data, and do what
is appropriate.
If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to write or call.
Thank you for contacting us and for your interest in the evironment,
Kristie
Kristie Kilgore, Advisor
Water Quality Division
Arizona Department of Environmental Quality
1110 West Washington, 5460
Phoenix , AZ 85007
(602) 771-4696
_______________________
RTJas :D

Kilrtoy
05-01-2006, 10:59 PM
like PG&E would say anything different......
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

franky
05-02-2006, 02:34 AM
like PG&E would say anything different......
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
....that would be ADEQ.

LUVNLIFE
05-02-2006, 04:14 AM
Why are you people so worried about Chromium 6? I am a native Topockian and am disgusted with you people. you people complain about how there is chromium 6 and "oh my god my baby. i dont want them swimming in that! how dare they! I am outraged" what do you think is oing more damage to the environment? A plume of chromium 6; or the thousands of boats daily on the river. You do more damage to the environment and people by polluting the air with your huge boats and sea doos. I choose not to go to the river on a boat; and just go to a beach by either walking or riding in a car. you uneccesarily waste gass by going up and down the river for no reason except your own pleasure; not caring what adverse effects all of the co2 and carbon monoxide have on the environment. i am disgusted with everyone here. Why dont all of you go back home to where you belong. no one in topock wants you here because you are rude, bad for the environment, pollute my local river with your trash (i get my drinking water from the river), arrogant, take up all the river space, disrespectful to the land in other ways, and you whine too much. the only people who want you here are businesses that explooit the environment with you and take your money. (The topock Marina) Why dont you go home and destroy your own land. I am disgusted with all of you. especially when you complain about how "i dont want my children swimming in that." And " how dare they do that to the river" when you cause more damage to it. go home please. by the way; ***boat sucks and so does the topock Marina.
There you have it, another argument against drugs and one argument to stay in school.

Kilrtoy
05-02-2006, 06:08 AM
....that would be ADEQ.
Sorry should have been a little more clear on what I meant
PG&E will continue to perform routine
sampling in the river.
That is what I was referring to , that the people who cause this is the people who are samplingand cleaning up....

Not So Fast
05-02-2006, 07:18 AM
Ya gotta love this guy dont ya? Brings up a post from Jan 2005, are we bored? Did we just wake up from a drunken binge or did somebody kick over the rock you were sleeping under. :yuk: NSF

carbonmarine
05-02-2006, 08:19 AM
I guess no more mixed drinks at Topok ( potential hex 6 in the ice cubes.. )
... I am stick'in to the BEER & Shots !!!
:cool:

28Prowler525
05-02-2006, 12:11 PM
Bump............

HM
05-02-2006, 12:29 PM
I guess no more mixed drinks at Topok ( potential hex 6 in the ice cubes.. )
... I am stick'in to the BEER & Shots !!!
:cool:
C'mon... a little Cr6 never killed anyone. :220v: