PDA

View Full Version : Why do you want to kill Terri Schiavo?



MagicMtnDan
03-23-2005, 09:28 PM
If you're for letting her be killed by starving her and dehydrating her, why?
If your daughter was handicapped (Terri Schiavo is NOT brain dead), and her husband was with another woman who had kids with him, would you want him deciding her fate? If you had visited your daughter for the past 15 years and seen her respond to your talking and visiting her would you want her to be killed by having her feeding tube pulled?
If a hospital announced that anyone who is mentally retarded wasn't going to be given food or water anymore how would you feel about that?
If your doctor told you that your grandmother or grandfather who has Alzheimers wasn't going to be given food or water anymore and was going to die as a result, how would you feel then?
If the animal shelters announced they aren't going to give food or water to the animals anymore how many people do you think would protest, riot and scream bloody murder?
If you think Terri Schiavo should be killed, how do you justify that? (She had/has no living will - NO ONE knows what she would have wanted). If you believe she should be killed who do you think should be killed next?
Here's the woman you want killed:
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/123087/2076353/2089094/031023_Terri_Schiavo.jpg

RiverDave
03-23-2005, 09:33 PM
From what I understand she's a vegetable? Where did you get the information that she is not? Incidentally, I don't much care if she lives or dies.. On top of that I don't think it should be "our" decision to make that call. Should be the families, everyone else (so long as we're not paying for it) should mind their own beez wax. If I'm a vegetable though... Let it be read here and now, PULL THE FREAKIN PLUG, and let me on to the next stage.
RD

RiverDave
03-23-2005, 09:37 PM
By the way I don't agree with this comparison either
If the animal shelters announced they aren't going to give food or water to the animals anymore how many people do you think would protest, riot and scream bloody murder?
If the dog was a vegetable and they put it to sleep to you think anyone would care?
RD

257
03-23-2005, 09:37 PM
i am with River Dave pull the plug and if you think that is living you need to take a real good look at her before and now photos just my .02

Phat Matt
03-23-2005, 09:37 PM
I don't think anybody wants her killed. Didn't she tell her husband she would never want to live in a vegetative state? If she did, but you can't prove it because she only told her husband and you keep her alive like she is, is that right? I personally wouldn't want to be trapped in my own body without being able to function on my own or communicate with others. That life would be hell and if you kept me alive like that I think it would be torture. I'll put it in writing...if I am a vegetable, pull the plug.

CornWater
03-23-2005, 09:45 PM
Your one sided post are borderline pathetic... I have been in that situation, and until you are you don't know what you would do.. Take a step back and think about quality of life.. :(

mbrown2
03-23-2005, 09:49 PM
If I am a vegetable, pull the plug; and get your best lighter out to burn me up and spread me along the Parker Strip in front of the bars and Havasu in all the hot spots and let my Wife and Family move on with their lives and enjoy whatever toys I leave behind... :cool:

My Man's Sportin' Wood
03-23-2005, 09:57 PM
Yahoo has a link to a short video of her. She is not a vegetable. At least she wasn't when the video was taken. It looks pretty recent, she is obviously brain damaged, but not a vegetable. She can respond and smile. I don't really have an opinion, I just wanted to clarify that issue. I'll try to hook up a link.
I couldn't get the video shortcut, but here's a link to the page with the video. It's the third image down on the left.
link to page (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman)

77charger
03-23-2005, 09:57 PM
Alll i can say if that was me i wouldnt want to live like that.
I wouldnt want someone like my wife,son or parents to devote all their time to me just so that they can still have me around to look at.I wouldnt want to be a strain on someone else while they can move on with life,I dont believe in machines to keep people alive,let nature take its course.
I had to see my father live his 4 days in a bed dying from cancer i got to talk to him one last time after that they gave him morphine he never woke up again died 3 days later i was there the whole time. He knew he was ready to go he had options to give another couple of days but refused.

robert_pv
03-23-2005, 10:07 PM
More than anyone else here on earth, Her Mama has her best interests at heart. I say let her go home and get some love and tlc. Whats so wrong with that?

Domn8er
03-23-2005, 10:12 PM
If she were a vegetable that would be a different story. She can respond and is not in a coma. I just heard about a month ago about a lady who was in a coma and woke up after almost 20 years. Who knows what can happen. I feel sorry for the parents. Also for her husband, he is making a very tough decesion.

C-2
03-23-2005, 10:17 PM
More than anyone else here on earth, Her Mama has her best interests at heart. I say let her go home and get some love and tlc. Whats so wrong with that?
Agreed.

Forkin' Crazy
03-23-2005, 10:19 PM
Yea, a very hard call.
Didn't her husband sue for money to take care of her with?

boxscore
03-23-2005, 10:19 PM
If I am a vegetable, pull the plug; and get your best lighter out to burn me up and spread me along the Parker Strip in front of the bars and Havasu in all the hot spots and let my Wife and Family move on with their lives and enjoy whatever toys I leave behind... :cool:
better have your medical directives in order... we just did ours last year.

HCS
03-23-2005, 10:22 PM
OK, my father in law sits in the same state of mind. He had a severe stroke 10 years ago and was suppose to die. Well he didn't. Now he lays in a bed with a feeding tube. :frown: Totally unable to move or do anything accept breath. The family had the choice to not insert the feeding tube, but they did. Now their screwed. He lays their with no chance of recovery, just like Terri. :frown:
I don't know what to say but, write a living will.
That way, you, me, or who ever it is, their fate will be decided.
Sheeese!!! very sad. :frown:

WopOnWater
03-23-2005, 10:30 PM
I think she is in a vegatative state otherwise she wouldnt need a feeding tube keeping her alive. I have lived that life for 5 years watching my mother wither away. I know she didnt want to live that way but the doctors gave us hope saying she was showing signs of recovery for the first couple of years. Well she wasnt and sometimes I think the doctors were using her for a testing ground. It was hell on the family and we had tuff choices to make all through those 5 years. Comparing this situation to animals is totaling wrong in my opinion. My mom was my best friend and it was unfair to her to have to exsist that way for as long as she did. It is not living it is just exsisting. In the case of Terri Schiavo her parents dont want to let go. Trust me I am not saying it is easy,its not, I loved my mom as much as anyone could and miss her every day, but I thank god she is not just existing, she wouldnt of wanted it that way. Until you walk in these shoes you have no idea how it hurts. God bless my mom and Terri.

gnarley
03-23-2005, 10:38 PM
Who are any of us to comment on this without knowing the specific details of her history? I sure wouldn't want to be kept alive like that. It's very sad.

MudPumper
03-23-2005, 10:47 PM
Just to set the record straight, Doctors say she is in a vegetative state with less than 10% of any brain function. The rest of her brain is dead. The part that is working is basically only letting her organs function for basic life support. They say she can not feel pain, or any emotion. Also, the video that they keep showing was shot between 1990 and 1995. There is no recent footage of her. Let her die already, that's what I would want. It's a matter of quality of life. Her parents are just being selfish and are unable to let go.

MagicMtnDan
03-23-2005, 10:51 PM
I didn't ask you what you would want.
I asked why you think she should be killed.
She's NOT a "vegetable."
I was NOT comparing her to a dog or pet. The reason I brought it up is because many people think animals (their pets) are equal to humans. Animals are important but they're not humans and should never be compared. (Question for you: if your pet is drowning and a stranger is drowning and you can only save one, which one do you save? If you answer your pet I think you have serious issues.)
My point is why do people want Terri Schiavo killed against her parents' wishes? I'm not asking you what you would want - what if she's YOUR DAUGHTER - do you want her killed (starved and dehydrated)?

HCS
03-23-2005, 10:57 PM
She has no life. :frown:

MudPumper
03-23-2005, 10:57 PM
I didn't ask you what you would want.
She's NOT a "vegetable."
Why do you think she isn't a vegetable???????????
She can't speak, eat, walk, talk, or take care of herself in even the most basic of ways. She lies there and blinks, breathes, and drools. What about that makes her not a Vegetable??? Just curious as to your point of view.

Squirtin Thunder
03-23-2005, 10:59 PM
I have no idea what I would do in the shoes of the family. But I for one am quite upset that this has gone into special secion in congrass !!! This is a family matter. Now I have recently been faced with a choice very similar. Now this is my long time best friend, Sable. She just started kidney Failure, I had to make a tough choice. I went the route of spending tons of money that I don't have, on something that might not work. She is a Tri-Breed Hunter that is 12 years old and that has been with me though all the tough times. I chose to give her a chance. Now after two days in the vet hospital she is home and not really any better. I think I made the selfish choice !!!
Jim

Bre
03-23-2005, 11:17 PM
From what I understand she's a vegetable? Where did you get the information that she is not? Incidentally, I don't much care if she lives or dies.. On top of that I don't think it should be "our" decision to make that call. Should be the families, everyone else (so long as we're not paying for it) should mind their own beez wax. If I'm a vegetable though... Let it be read here and now, PULL THE FREAKIN PLUG, and let me on to the next stage.
RD
Ditto. Pull the plug on me too. My kids don't need to see me like that. Nor would I want them to have to start taking care of me.

JustMVG
03-23-2005, 11:19 PM
OK then for me the bottom line is who are we keeping her alive for?!!!
For her? Or for her Parents, if she was misdiagnosed, why is this showing up now, all those years have gone by and noone has said squat about her being misdiagnosed, as to the Gov't stepping in, it's BS plain and simple, this is a MEDICAL issue not a political one.
If we're going to keep her alive for her, how do we know that is what she wants, according to the Hubby he has said that she told him she would rather be left to die than remain in a state like this, i am sure somewhere there are friends that she told or talked about this subject, i'd like to see them come forward pro or con and tell the truth about what was said.
Waaaay too much news on this, sorry i just feel this is degrading to her and to the memories of her, this isn't grace and dignity this is grandstanding of the highest form, both by family members and politicians, let this woman die in peace and let the higher up decide for the rest of us.
Just my 2 cents worth.... MVG

Bre
03-23-2005, 11:21 PM
My point is why do people want Terri Schiavo killed against her parents' wishes? I'm not asking you what you would want - what if she's YOUR DAUGHTER - do you want her killed (starved and dehydrated)?
No I would not want any one of my daughter to die that way. Give them a shot or something. :frown: So sad. :frown:

Roxysnow
03-23-2005, 11:21 PM
This is a nice thread that won't accomplish anything! :frown: I don't think anybody wants to kill her, but you have to call it quits at some point. It's unfortunate the parents of this lady want to keep her as a pet. Lets feed her and pet her on the head. I am sure love and hope are driving this push but how long do you let it go? Honestly, I am married and know exactly what my wife would want me to do as to she knows what I would want her to do. My parents haven't a clue. There's a point you have to say stop! After, 15 YEARS. You have got to let go. And I honestly think the husband has the right to say when! I am surprise he stuck it out that long. Rather than starving or going this route, maybe euthenasia (ms) is the right thing in this case(not to open a can of worms). My .02 cents!

ROZ
03-23-2005, 11:27 PM
I asked why you think she should be killed.
Is taking anyone off any type of life support a killing?
She's NOT a "vegetable."
Define "vegtable"... Only her autonomic system functions, I guess her brainstem still funtcions.....
Also, she is not mentally retarded...
Comparison to Alzhiemers is a weak argument...
[/quote]
I was NOT comparing her to a dog or pet. The reason I brought it up is because many people think animals (their pets) are equal to humans. Animals are important but they're not humans and should never be compared.
In the sense that you brought up euthanasia via starvation, you made a comparison.
Reguarding your drowning scenario, are you the stranger? That may sway some of the peeps on the boards ;) :D
My point is why do people want Terri Schiavo killed against her parents' wishes? I'm not asking you what you would want - what if she's YOUR DAUGHTER - do you want her killed (starved and dehydrated)?
The problem that it's against her parents wishes.... In the court transcript there are several people(brother and sister I think) who testified that Terri at one point or another was for death with dignity... Also, when a person is married(they were at the time), the spouse has legal right, not the parents. There are discussions between spouses that aren't discussed with others. Too bad it wasn't legally doccumented...
I'm not asking you what you would want - what if she's YOUR DAUGHTER - do you want her killed (starved and dehydrated)?
When you ask if she was our daughter and if we'd have life support withdrawn, you ARE asking what we'd want....
If the circumstances are exact, I hope my son-in-law would have pulled life support we first learned of the extent of damage and donated my daughter's(his wife) organs to those with a chance at life...
Also remember that desperate people will look at every movement, even obvious uncoltrolable or coincidental movement, she makes as progress or "a sign"....

ROZ
03-23-2005, 11:40 PM
And I honestly think the husband has the right to say when! I am surprise he stuck it out that long.
I glad you brught this point up...
This man could have walked away from this position and signed legal right to the parents long ago. The man knew his wife more intimately than anyone else. As a couple they knew each other's feelings on serious issues. The man maintained course for this long not for selfishness of his own, but for what he knows in his heart what his wife truely wanted...
I commend the man for never giving up!
Also want to add that I don't believe state of federal government has any rights in these matters. For in the end it's all we have left...

Phat Matt
03-23-2005, 11:44 PM
I glad you brught this point up...
This man could have walked away from this position and signed legal right to the parents long ago. The man knew his wife more intimately than anyone else. As a couple they knew each other's feelings on serious issues. The man maintained course for this long not for selfishness of his own, but for what he knows in his heart what his wife truely wanted...
I commend the man for never giving up!
Also want to add that I don't believe state of federal government has any rights in these matters. For in the end it's all we have left...
I heard he has been offered millions of dollars to give up his rights to her and let her parents have her. He didn't take the money.
Oh, and I would save my dog so don't boat with me. ;)

JustMVG
03-23-2005, 11:52 PM
Also remember that desperate people will look at every movement, even obvious uncoltrolable or coincidental movement, she makes as progress or "a sign"...., well said Roz, my thoughts exactly, now i want to know why some of the nurses who have taken care of her over the years are just now coming out in support of the parents, if they saw some sort of "life" behind those eyes, or some kind of "controlled" movement, why not years ago?
Honestly, if you were her would you want to keep on living, if it were myself i would have been going nuts inside not being able to convey my feelings, not one bit, i'd want to be put out of that hell a looong time ago. And to have family members thinking i am ok and will be pulling out of this state at any moment would make me insane, i wish her godspeed and my prayers are with her to make this transition with dignity and some modicum of grace.
MikeVG

bigerich
03-24-2005, 12:18 AM
Though I am no doctor, I had heard that she was basically incapable of any voluntary actions. That most of her "actions" are only reactions. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo) seems to agree with what I had heard and understood. Personally, I don't think anyone would want to live in that state. I don't think this should be considered killing her, I think it is merely letting nature take its course. I do not have kids, so I can in no way understand what her parents are going through.

FMluvswater
03-24-2005, 12:34 AM
I tend to think of death that occurs through lack of medical/technological intervention as "died of natural causes". I do understand her parents' reluctance to give up and let that happen. I feel more empathy for Terri however. I'd want to be released. I don't really understand why her wishes as expressed to her husband are being discounted. :confused: If he says it was her wish I believe him why would he or anyone lie about it? Is there some perk for him if she dies? It is all very sad. :( Something's got to give eventually ... a decision one way or another.

JustMVG
03-24-2005, 12:55 AM
Apparently there is a life insurance policy thats been mentioned, if money was the motivating factor wouldn't he have made a move sometime ago to "rid" himself of this burden and get this money and run? No he has been faithful to her and trying to fulfill her wishes, but everyone else surrounding her is taking it upon themselves to speak for Terry, a sad state of affairs this....

FMluvswater
03-24-2005, 01:00 AM
Okay I'm unclear on something then if he has gone along with keeping her alive for this long has he been acting against her wishes until recently? :confused: His claim is that she expressed a wish to him that she wouldn't want to live this way? I'm just trying to understand the chain of events.

73kona455
03-24-2005, 05:39 AM
Yahoo has a link to a short video of her. She is not a vegetable. At least she wasn't when the video was taken. It looks pretty recent, she is obviously brain damaged, but not a vegetable. She can respond and smile. I don't really have an opinion, I just wanted to clarify that issue. [/URL]
in the video u can see her eyes following the camera around and the looking back at her parents.. u can see some expression on her face... the hubby wants her dead so he can collect the $1,000,000. malapractic money.. he already has a womane he is living with and has kids by.. i think if her parents want to take care of her they should be able to..

Freak
03-24-2005, 05:56 AM
The case along with Jacksons has been a national distraction to real problems.

bigd1
03-24-2005, 05:56 AM
1) She's brain dead - totally incapacitated with 0 chance of any type of recovery. Doctor after doctor has reiterated that.
2) She is married - her husband is her guardian and it's his decision. The parents are living in a dream world - as demonstrated by many, many legal decisions against them.
3) If this person were Black, Asian, Hispanic, white trash hillbilly, etc. nobody would give a damn about her so let's drop the hypocrisy.

Seadog
03-24-2005, 06:25 AM
The parents and their supporters have tried to make the husband out to be a gold digging ne'er do well, but the fact is that he turned down a million dollars to divorce her. He is being assaulted by the idiot factor and had a chance to go live a normal life with a million dollars, yet he stood by his wife. And who is paying for the constant care she needs? I doubt if the parents or the husband can afford all of it, so it must be insurance or the state. That means we, the public is paying for it.
She is dead already. All those functions that make her a unique individual are long gone. 99% of the doctors agree, the special guardian the state hired for her, agrees. She is no longer a human being. She is a corpse being preserved because some people cannot accept reality. The real shame is that Congress stuck their noses in to it.

ratso
03-24-2005, 06:58 AM
I honestly cannot imagine anyone wanting to live like that... and to whoever kept me alive in that "state", once I did finally pass, I would come back and haunt your asses until the day YOU die.

Tom Brown
03-24-2005, 07:17 AM
(She had/has no living will - NO ONE knows what she would have wanted).
... except, perhaps, for the man who says she told him.
I suspect people who have been in this situation with people they love will have a different view than people who have never been in it.
The whole situation is bad. I'm glad I'm not the one being kept alive... or being asked to make the decision. Like so many others here, I'd rather the plug be pulled on me, instead of keeping my body alive.

grads2112
03-24-2005, 07:28 AM
If MagicMtnDan and my pet were drowning there would be no choice....I would have to save my pet.

Forkin' Crazy
03-24-2005, 07:28 AM
The real shame is that Congress stuck their noses in to it.
I agree! What is up with them? They need to do the job they were elected to do and keep their noses out of sports and things like this. I honestly don't think our founding fathers would be for their intervention. That reminds me, I need to email my reps and senators and climb their asses!!
The only real good that we can do is to say a prayer for her and hope her pain will end soon as she will be going to a better place.

Tom Brown
03-24-2005, 07:30 AM
If MagicMtnDan and my pet were drowning there would be no choice....I would have to save my pet.
Attention all planets of the solar federation
We have assumed control.

diggler
03-24-2005, 07:36 AM
Separation of powers - judicial, executive, and congressional
For the president and congress to get involved in an attempt to ursurp the judicial rulings is BAD BAD BAD precedent. After all this is over, there will be some fundamental wranglings over Constitutional violations.
And for f-u-c-k's sake, there have been around 12 or so judgments against the parents over the past 15 years? Nothing ever in their favor... This Terry Schiavo has had more due process than any other vegetable alive. Let her go finally for god's sake.

Essex29
03-24-2005, 07:38 AM
Definitly b.s. that all of these government bodies are jumping in...but the mistake they made was not having it in writing...
When your family has a directive from you why can't they speed up the process so that it doesn't take 1-2 weeks to die?
I guess I understood what Dr Kevorkian was doing.

HCS
03-24-2005, 07:38 AM
The Supreme court will not here arguments in the case.
R.I.P.

OGShocker
03-24-2005, 07:44 AM
Living WILL! REPEAT after me, living will!!!

HCS
03-24-2005, 07:49 AM
Living WILL! REPEAT after me, living will!!!
I'll repeat after you. LIVING WILL!
My father inlaw would have never wanted to be in the condition he's in.

superdave013
03-24-2005, 07:54 AM
in the video u can see her eyes following the camera around and the looking back at her parents.. u can see some expression on her face... the hubby wants her dead so he can collect the $1,000,000. malapractic money.. he already has a womane he is living with and has kids by.. i think if her parents want to take care of her they should be able to..
That's kinda the way I see it too.
No matter what it's just a bad deal. The thought of letter her die that way just bugs me. I don't want to see anyone starve to death.

Dribble
03-24-2005, 08:01 AM
What happens to Terri is not my decision to make however:
If I'm lying in a vegetative state with a feeding tube inserted in my gut and strangers changing my diaper and wiping my butt for fourteen years of my life with absolutley no chance of recovery, I hope someone has the balls to pull my feeding tube. I just wouldn't want to live like that.

JetBoatRich
03-24-2005, 08:05 AM
Live or Let Die?
I recently read a story about a lady who's family had a history of MLS and it usually killed the person within a year. She thought it passed her and decided to have kids with her husband. After the second child she found she had MLS and her life would be over within a couple years. When she started to get weak and could barely do anything for herself she went to go kill herself to avoid her family suffering by taking care of her and being in financial burden. But she changed her mind about an hour into her drive and went home to fight for her life. She did extend her life by a few months, but cost her family thousands of dollars leaving her husband in huge debt for the experimantal drugs that cost $10,000 a month and lost their house etc. To me that was a terrible way to leave the family :hammerhea
This story bothered me and I told my wife no way would I want to do that to the family. Either way you know you are going to die, why make the family continue to suffer when your gone. Not sure what the arrangments are for Teri, but you would think the cost is not 100% covered.
Just another thought on the situation

BiggusJimbus
03-24-2005, 08:19 AM
Attention all planets of the solar federation
We have assumed control.
Now you're reaching.
Quoting Canadian folk music.

Mandelon
03-24-2005, 08:19 AM
I heard two nurses who cared for her for the past several years describe how she is able to swallow, likes the taste of juice and expresses her emotions. She is able to swallow, but hasn't been helped to for years. She sits up an leans towards those she likes.
She would turn her body to get her hair brushed, how she would be happy to see her parents come in the room, and how she like baths.
She would be depressed when her husband came to visit. He has refused to allow her to leave her room, he has refused to allow her to have any type of physical therapy. He has not allowed any recent footage to be taken to keep people from seeing how much she is aware. He does not allow medical care of bed sores.
She apparently is not vegetative. She is responsive and able to express emotion.
The whole thing seems fishy to me. He said he came home and found her like that one day........perhaps he is responsible and doesn't want her to talk???
We don't seem to have all the facts. Why not allow her to have therapy? Why not teach her to eat again? She's apparently never had an MRI, or a myriad of other tests that would conclusively prove she is truly incapacitated.

uclahater
03-24-2005, 08:20 AM
I think the issue with the Parents, and the husband are "PRIDE" and we all know what happens when our pride gets in the way.
I've never met 1 person that would want to live in that state. If she dies shes onto a better place so why wouldnt anyone want that for her :confused:

uclahater
03-24-2005, 08:23 AM
I heard two nurses who cared for her for the past several years describe how she is able to swallow, likes the taste of juice and expresses her emotions. She is able to swallow, but hasn't been helped to for years. She sits up an leans towards those she likes.
She would turn her body to get her hair brushed, how she would be happy to see her parents come in the room, and how she like baths.
She would be depressed when her husband came to visit. He has refused to allow her to leave her room, he has refused to allow her to have any type of physical therapy. He has not allowed any recent footage to be taken to keep people from seeing how much she is aware. He does not allow medical care of bed sores.
She apparently is not vegetative. She is responsive and able to express emotion.
The whole thing seems fishy to me. He said he came home and found her like that one day........perhaps he is responsible and doesn't want her to talk???
We don't seem to have all the facts. Why not allow her to have therapy? Why not teach her to eat again? She's apparently never had an MRI, or a myriad of other tests that would conclusively prove she is truly incapacitated.
Wow if thats the case I could see why the parent havent given up hope. IM supprised that these test havent been ordered with as much media coverage there is.
1,000,000 dollars, and something to hide :idea:

schiada96
03-24-2005, 08:24 AM
I heard two nurses who cared for her for the past several years describe how she is able to swallow, likes the taste of juice and expresses her emotions. She is able to swallow, but hasn't been helped to for years. She sits up an leans towards those she likes.
She would turn her body to get her hair brushed, how she would be happy to see her parents come in the room, and how she like baths.
She would be depressed when her husband came to visit. He has refused to allow her to leave her room, he has refused to allow her to have any type of physical therapy. He has not allowed any recent footage to be taken to keep people from seeing how much she is aware. He does not allow medical care of bed sores.
She apparently is not vegetative. She is responsive and able to express emotion.
The whole thing seems fishy to me. He said he came home and found her like that one day........perhaps he is responsible and doesn't want her to talk???
We don't seem to have all the facts. Why not allow her to have therapy? Why not teach her to eat again? She's apparently never had an MRI, or a myriad of other tests that would conclusively prove she is truly incapacitated.
Right,now he is responsible for her having a stroke, get a clue. He has been with her for 15 plus years. People die every day sad but true.

Mandelon
03-24-2005, 08:31 AM
I have a clue, and am just saying there is more info needed than we have available...........

diggler
03-24-2005, 08:44 AM
I believe the information is there.... it's just buried in the litigation of 20 decisions made over the past 15 years. (20 cases in the favor of the husband per CNN today).
Going out on a limb here, but I am going to assume that the definition of persistant vegetative state has been defined very clearly by this time.
Finally, all we are hearing now is the demagoguery of both sides (mostly the parents) that appeal to our emotions. This is why I love judicial discretion. I have 100% confidence the decisions by each judge were not made lightly.
By the way:
Demagogue - an orator who appeals to the passions and prejudices of his audience: A leader of the rabble; one who attempts to control the multitude by specious or deceitful arts; an unprincipled and factious mob orator or political leader.

superdave013
03-24-2005, 08:45 AM
this is bad but kinda funny in a sick way
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=464

Tom Brown
03-24-2005, 08:49 AM
Now you're reaching.
Quoting Canadian folk music.
I thought Hoolign would apprecate that response to grads2112 . :cool:

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Nobody has brought up the point that this douche has a common law wife and kids with some other chick now. WTF ever happened to "in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer" this guy has no honor or code. POS in my opinion.

Phat Matt
03-24-2005, 08:58 AM
this is bad but kinda funny in a sick way
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=464
That's wrong...but funny. :220v:
http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a464/a464.gif

Her454
03-24-2005, 09:04 AM
Your one sided post are borderline pathetic... I have been in that situation, and until you are you don't know what you would do.. Take a step back and think about quality of life.. :(
I disagree with the statement his post was one sided. He stated "if" in several of the situations and asked why. The simple fact is that NO ONE knows the truth of the situation, medical and/or emotionally in what occured in that marriage. And now the Supreme Court has ruled against ANY unsealing of any documents or hearing the case which essentially deems it a done deal - BUT leaves it open for the next unfortunate family to challenge.
There are several doctors that claim she is a vegetable, and now Gov Bush has another Dr claiming she is not and wants the State to intervene under a state law that protects "victims" in cases such as this. Its sad for ALL involved and I dont think there is a right answer. I do know that a living will is extremely important for obvious reasons, but as a mother my heart feels pain for the parents moreso than the ex that has moved on. Not for any other reason than the fact he has moved on and has his own life now and no one really knows what transpired or what her true wishes are.

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 09:07 AM
Live or Let Die?
I recently read a story about a lady who's family had a history of MLS and it usually killed the person within a year. She thought it passed her and decided to have kids with her husband. After the second child she found she had MLS and her life would be over within a couple years. When she started to get weak and could barely do anything for herself she went to go kill herself to avoid her family suffering by taking care of her and being in financial burden. But she changed her mind about an hour into her drive and went home to fight for her life. She did extend her life by a few months, but cost her family thousands of dollars leaving her husband in huge debt for the experimantal drugs that cost $10,000 a month and lost their house etc. To me that was a terrible way to leave the family :hammerhea
This story bothered me and I told my wife no way would I want to do that to the family. Either way you know you are going to die, why make the family continue to suffer when your gone. Not sure what the arrangments are for Teri, but you would think the cost is not 100% covered.
Just another thought on the situation
I understand your points JBR, but if there is dissent in half the family or more especially if it's blood family you gotta take their opinions seriously. He's in a fuct position, got dealt some lousy cards whatever you want to call it. He would have saved more face if he would have just walked away from the whole mess which is what he is doing by the course of action he was taking.
7 years into the ordeal and he remembers a convo while they were watching TV??? I CALL BULLSHIT! A man cant remember 7 days ago, I know I am one. This guys a coward for sure.

schiada96
03-24-2005, 09:28 AM
Nobody has brought up the point that this douche has a common law wife and kids with some other chick now. WTF ever happened to "in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer" this guy has no honor or code. POS in my opinion.
He can't have a common law wife he is still married. He won a lawsuit for 750 thousand and 40 is left. The hospice care is being paid for by medicare. How long do you want to pay for her life to continue. Sad but people die every day. I know my wife would want me to move on. The difference is I'd would have had the plug pulled long ago.

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 09:35 AM
He can't have a common law wife he is still married. He won a lawsuit for 750 thousand and 40 is left. The hospice care is being paid for by medicare. How long do you want to pay for her life to continue. Sad but people die every day. I know my wife would want me to move on. The difference is I'd would have had the plug pulled long ago.
It was reported he has a common law wife, he has kids with this woman. OK so he's just a cheater???

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 09:36 AM
It was reported he has a common law wife, he has kids with this woman. OK so he's just a cheater???
Or maybe he's part of that ***boat wife swappin swingers deal???

Jordy
03-24-2005, 09:39 AM
Nobody has brought up the point that this douche has a common law wife and kids with some other chick now.
I guess if Terry wakes up tomorrow and is all better they could move the whole family to NW Arizona and be polygamists. :eek: :D
Just let her die. If I'm like that for a couple days pull the plug, don't wait 15 years.
Jordy <----- has no desire to have a feeding tube or wear diapers. ;)

ROZ
03-24-2005, 09:50 AM
in the video u can see her eyes following the camera around and the looking back at her parents.. u can see some expression on her face... the hubby wants her dead so he can collect the $1,000,000. malapractic money.. he already has a womane he is living with and has kids by.. i think if her parents want to take care of her they should be able to..
That money is already spent on attorneys over the last 15 years.... If he wanted money, he'd take the 6mil he's been offered to sign away his rights..

schiada96
03-24-2005, 09:54 AM
It was reported he has a common law wife, he has kids with this woman. OK so he's just a cheater???
So how long should we as a country pay for her to live. And if I didn't have some companionship for seven years you would have to call me a cheater too.

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 10:06 AM
So how long should we as a country pay for her to live. And if I didn't have some companionship for seven years you would have to call me a cheater too.
Forever, if it's my tax dollars I say forever. Companionship and having kids while still in wedlock are two totally different things. It all comes down to your own personal values, I'm a Christian so I have different standards then say a Muslim or a Catholic... get it?

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 10:07 AM
So how long should we as a country pay for her to live. And if I didn't have some companionship for seven years you would have to call me a cheater too.
But I can see what I can do for you if you want your money back

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 10:09 AM
I guess if Terry wakes up tomorrow and is all better they could move the whole family to NW Arizona and be polygamists. :eek: :D
Just let her die. If I'm like that for a couple days pull the plug, don't wait 15 years.
Jordy <----- has no desire to have a feeding tube or wear diapers. ;)
For you Jordy, I'm thinking more of a VIKING FUNERAL!!!!

schiada96
03-24-2005, 10:44 AM
Forever, if it's my tax dollars I say forever. Companionship and having kids while still in wedlock are two totally different things. It all comes down to your own personal values, I'm a Christian so I have different standards then say a Muslim or a Catholic... get it?
So as a christian how do you feel about stem cell research all associated positives that can come from it? Preserve life at all costs? Use a life to prolong another? And she is catholic.
And it's not your tax dollars alone.Government is not someone I want messing in my life decisions. This guy has endured enough. And it looks like the majority has spoken.

mirvin
03-24-2005, 10:51 AM
It's amazing how conservatives are EMBARASING THEMSELVES with this issue. The law is clear. Michael is her guardian. This has gone through the courts. Everything else is propaganda.
Remember how the same style propaganda and manipulation was used by liberals in the gay marraige thingy?? Conservatives had a huge problem with that. THey went as far as to say the law was clear and if you don't like it then change the law.
Well now when they don't agree with the law they're trying to get around it.
It's disgusting. So are the lies being spread by the Schindlers.
It doesn't matter how YOU feel about this issue. It's not your decision.
mirvin

KACHINA KEN
03-24-2005, 10:54 AM
So as a christian how do you feel about stem cell research all associated positives that can come from it? Preserve life at all costs? Use a life to prolong another? And she is catholic.
And it's not your tax dollars alone.Government is not someone I want messing in my life decisions. This guy has endured enough. And it looks like the majority has spoken. I dont know enough about it ( stem cell) to comment, i'm not attacking so chill. This thing sucks for all sides.

prosthogod
03-24-2005, 11:07 AM
Never, I Repeat Never, Hook Me Up, So You Will Never Have To Pull The Plug Later.

RiverDave
03-24-2005, 11:12 AM
I didn't ask you what you would want.
I asked why you think she should be killed.
She's NOT a "vegetable."
I was NOT comparing her to a dog or pet. The reason I brought it up is because many people think animals (their pets) are equal to humans. Animals are important but they're not humans and should never be compared. (Question for you: if your pet is drowning and a stranger is drowning and you can only save one, which one do you save? If you answer your pet I think you have serious issues.)
My point is why do people want Terri Schiavo killed against her parents' wishes? I'm not asking you what you would want - what if she's YOUR DAUGHTER - do you want her killed (starved and dehydrated)?
If my dog was drowning, or anyone of the POS gang bangers I went to highschool with were drowning right next to her.. I'd step on their head to help get her to shore.
Do I have issues?
RD

HCS
03-24-2005, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't want any of my family members to live like that.
I Know because I have one. Believe me. It's no way to live. :frown:

gnarley
03-24-2005, 12:12 PM
Why is anyone here even concerned about this?
This particular case is no one’s business except for those who are directly involved though congress, the senate and others that feel they need to get involved to support their agenda.
This case is unique and as such has been heard in the courts and they have ruled multiple times in favor of the husband.

BiggusJimbus
03-24-2005, 12:23 PM
Because MMD felt it necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are.

Ziggy
03-24-2005, 12:26 PM
What her parents have done is hold on to alot of hope for 15 years, her husband says they had conversations that stated neither of them wanted to live in a vegetative state(as I'm willing to bet many of you have done with your spouse,I sure have) should something happen to them. She may respond to cues or voices by means of looking at something but you also have to realize the photos that we are seeing of her on TV are also 15 yrs old.
I believe her parents have effectively not allowed her to DWD(DieWithDignity). I respect their plight to save their daughter but to do so in this fashion is IMHO overboard.
And contrary to whats seems to be thought, she is not being dehydrated, just not fed with the tube directly into her stomache.
I'd feel quite different if she was in a state of true conscienceness and was able to consume food via her mouth.
.
For the record, if I'm ever like that and after a few months of trying to save my life unsuccessfully...PULL THE DAMN PLUG, I want to leave!

Captain Dan
03-24-2005, 12:34 PM
Why is anyone here even concerned about this?
This particular case is no one’s business except for those who are directly involved .
I agree - it is nobody's business.
Now we all know the importance of a living will stating your wishes and the appointment of a durable power of attorney to make your medical choices in case you cannot.

AleAlchemist
03-24-2005, 12:36 PM
A lot of us are forgetting that she was Baliemic
I think if they reinsert the feeding tube then they should insert a perging tube.

It's Only Money
03-24-2005, 01:52 PM
Terri Schiavo is no longer alive. The shell that housed Terri Shiavo is being artificially kept alive through extraordinary means. Disconnect it and it dies. The essense of the person is long since gone.

Jordy
03-24-2005, 02:12 PM
Because MMD felt it necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are.
F that guy. Does he even have a boat??? :D :D :D

Tom Brown
03-24-2005, 02:13 PM
Because MMD felt it necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are.
Amen, brother. :cool:

It's Only Money
03-24-2005, 02:35 PM
Nobody has brought up the point that this douche has a common law wife and kids with some other chick now. WTF ever happened to "in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer" this guy has no honor or code. POS in my opinion.
What would you have the HUSBAND do? Keep his dick in his pants and stay married for 15 years while the brain dead parents try to revive a tomato? Would you?

MagicMtnDan
03-24-2005, 03:01 PM
Terri Schiavo is no longer alive. The shell that housed Terri Shiavo is being artificially kept alive through extraordinary means. Disconnect it and it dies. The essense of the person is long since gone.
Really? At what point then do people stop being "alive?" How about alzheimers patients? Are they "alive?" Many of them need to be monitored 24/7 otherwise they'll be wandering around out on the freeways. Should we stop feeding them?
I agree with many here who say it's not our business but, unfortunately, it has not only become our business but a real issue worthy of discussion. Hopefully most have realized it could be them and we all need to take steps to ensure our families give us the care we want (pull the plug or don't).
There are very real questions in regard to Terri's husband and his motives and behavior over the years. I won't go into them here but in my opinion, his motives and behavior do not make him a trustworthy guardian of his "wife."
My point about saving your pet versus a human was possibly misinterpreted by some. Organizations like PETA and others continually try to equate animals with humans. If you believe an animal is equal to a human (even some lowlife you went to high school with) yes, I believe, you have serious ethical issues. Humans are at the top of the animal world. Pets are precious and give love unconditionally. We need pets but they are not equal to human life.
As for my motives to post this - I find those comments laughable. If someone posts a link to a video of a hottie sucking a lollipop :D it's all in good fun (of course). When I start a thread about an issue that people across the country are grappling with I'm suddenly feeling "it necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are."
I could suggest the person that posted that is godless but I'd rather spend my time watching the video of the hottie sucking a lollipop :D

It's Only Money
03-24-2005, 03:09 PM
Life is being able to respond to one's surroundings such as pain response. The SHELL of Terri schiavo drools and blinks completely due to natural twitches. The courts have EXHAUSTIVELY reviewed this. Experts have probed and prodded for 15 years. No documented case exists of a person recovering from the state that the remains of Terri Schiavo are in. Let the shell expire (not die) in a dignified manner. Bleeding hearts want to hope GOD will perform a miracle and bring this woman back to life. It's not going to happen.

gnarley
03-24-2005, 03:13 PM
I'm suddenly feeling "it necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are.
Well, godless or not it is a personal choice to have a god as is the choice of how any individual may decide how they want to live out their final moments or hours of life.
Frankly god may have nothing or everything to do with this, who are we to decide? In the end it may have all been in the master plan anyway and everyone else is just getting in the way.

MagicMtnDan
03-24-2005, 03:17 PM
Well, godless or not it is a personal choice to have a god as is the choice of how any individual may decide how they want to live out their final moments or hours of life.
Frankly god may have nothing or everything to do with this, who are we to decide? In the end it may have all been in the master plan anyway and everyone else is just getting in the way.
Time out. I want to go on the record as saying I do NOT feel it "necessary to demonstrate how godless everyone on the boards are." That was a statement made by someone else. I did not bring god into this discussion nor was I trying to demonstrate anything to anyone. I simply wanted to start a discussion about what I think is an important topic worthy of some bandwidth.

It's Only Money
03-24-2005, 03:31 PM
find a "right to life" of Christian BLOG for this. This is a boating site. Get a boat and participate.

v-drive
03-24-2005, 03:35 PM
I also agree with most everyone and would want the plug pulled but I do believe she should be given a shot to end it and keep the government out of it...............v-drive

Big Warlock
03-24-2005, 03:45 PM
Who do you think is paying for all this? You think the family is paying for this? Most likely federal and state money is keeping her alive. And the court appointed Drs have already stated she has less han 10% brain activity and is not in a conscious state. There was a good news article yesterday that explained that the video the parents are passing around is essentially her body reacting to physical needs like air and such. She is NOT responding to touch or other stimulation. They do not show you hours of video that the courts have reviewed of Drs trying to get reactions from her with other stimulus. This has already been tried in the courts for years. It's sad and it's over. May her soul rest in peace.
However, wouldn't it be nice to see congress react this quickly on other issues? Social Security? Taxes? Etc. etc.

Mrs. Bordsmnj
03-24-2005, 03:53 PM
I was NOT comparing her to a dog or pet. The reason I brought it up is because many people think animals (their pets) are equal to humans. Animals are important but they're not humans and should never be compared. (Question for you: if your pet is drowning and a stranger is drowning and you can only save one, which one do you save? If you answer your pet I think you have serious issues.)
I just actually contemplated this question and I know I would save my dog. I guess I have isssues in your eyes. :rolleyes:

voodooCanoe
03-24-2005, 03:59 PM
One BIG question is why it took 7 years for the husband to remember her wishes. In the 1,000,000 law suit he had taken the stand and said how all the money would be spent on caring for and the rehab of his wife. 7 years later he remembers seeing a show with his wife and her saying if she was in that condition she wouldn't want to live. Other than that, even the husband says there was no other talk about their wishes.
If he turns control of his wife over to the parents, all medical records will be reopened. There are reports of previous broken bones and other conditions.
Just something to think about.
If its me. Please take me out!

totenhosen
03-24-2005, 04:02 PM
How can you kill something that is already dead?

mickeyfinn
03-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Well, godless or not it is a personal choice to have a god as is the choice of how any individual may decide how they want to live out their final moments or hours of life.
Frankly god may have nothing or everything to do with this, who are we to decide? In the end it may have all been in the master plan anyway and everyone else is just getting in the way.
Not to hijack the thread but it is not a personal choice whether or not to have a God. It is a personal choice whether or not to accept him.
Just wanted to clarify that. :D

gnarley
03-24-2005, 06:00 PM
Not to hijack the thread but it is not a personal choice whether or not to have a God. It is a personal choice whether or not to accept him.
Just wanted to clarify that. :D
Not to hijack the thread but, it is a personal choice whether or not to believe and what is to be believed, what one accepts is up to themselves. Without proof you only have faith, what your faith is, is between you and your maker. You have no right to push your faith on anyone else. You choose to accept and that's your right but it doesn't prove your god's existance.
With regard to the Schiavo's and Schindler's, they believe different things and they have that right to believe what they want. Just because the Schindler's have faith their daughter will improve doesn't mean she will, but they believe, is that blind faith?

mickeyfinn
03-24-2005, 06:57 PM
And that about sums it up in a nutshell.

mickeyfinn
03-24-2005, 07:04 PM
Not to hijack the thread but, it is a personal choice whether or not to believe and what is to be believed, what one accepts is up to themselves. Without proof you only have faith, what your faith is, is between you and your maker. You have no right to push your faith on anyone else. You choose to accept and that's your right but it doesn't prove your god's existance.
I can't prove that the color blue is really blue either but that doesn't make the color of the sky a different color. Lack of proof doesn't mean something doesn't exist. And you are right that I don't have a right to "push my faith on others", It is not a right, it is an obligation, both to others who may not have found that faith and to the God that I have faith in.

Jordy
03-24-2005, 07:37 PM
I think we should pull the plug on magicmountaindan as he's had ample time to get a boat and I don''t think there's any hope for him.
Hell, MMD's been kicking tires since he's joined. Tobtek catches hell over it but he's at least owned a boat in the last 3 years. :D :D :D
I'm with you Rio, not a snowball's chance in hell (if hell theoretically exists). ;)
Jordy <----- don't come knocking on my door pushing your beliefs on me. :D

Tinkerer
03-24-2005, 08:05 PM
Mud Pumper -
She is NOT a vegatable.
She does not drool and can swallow and eat liquid food.
The reason there isn't any recent video is that her husband wont let anyone video her.
The doctors that have seen her in the past were ones her husband found.
People have been fired for trying to rehabilitate her.
At one time she was saying some words but not anymore since she is not recieving any help.
her husand wants her dead so that he can collect the $ from the trial.
He didn't want her dead untill he won the $ that he said was to rehabilitate her in the trial.
If I was her father the husband would die shortly after Terri.

Performance 19
03-24-2005, 08:06 PM
This is all a good reminder to have an advanced health care directive...If you care.We have had them for years so there will be no question. Her spouse is her spouse, no matter his opinion or motive. So this doesn't happen to any of us, take a few moments to write wishes, donations, etc, down. I think the parents and husband would agree if she had made her wishes known to all. Not OUR decision to make. Jim

mike37
03-24-2005, 08:13 PM
If you're for letting her be killed by starving her and dehydrating her, why?
If your daughter was handicapped (Terri Schiavo is NOT brain dead), and her husband was with another woman who had kids with him, would you want him deciding her fate? If you had visited your daughter for the past 15 years and seen her respond to your talking and visiting her would you want her to be killed by having her feeding tube pulled?
If a hospital announced that anyone who is mentally retarded wasn't going to be given food or water anymore how would you feel about that?
If your doctor told you that your grandmother or grandfather who has Alzheimers wasn't going to be given food or water anymore and was going to die as a result, how would you feel then?
If the animal shelters announced they aren't going to give food or water to the animals anymore how many people do you think would protest, riot and scream bloody murder?
If you think Terri Schiavo should be killed, how do you justify that? (She had/has no living will - NO ONE knows what she would have wanted). If you believe she should be killed who do you think should be killed next?
Here's the woman you want killed:
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/123087/2076353/2089094/031023_Terri_Schiavo.jpg
are you kidding no one is killing any one
the question is should you force some one to stay alive
or let them die of natural coses
is it humane to force her to live even though her body wants to die

diggler
03-24-2005, 08:17 PM
is it humane to force her to live even though her body wants to die
Well, I think this just about says it all...
Nope, not humane to keep it alive.

Tinkerer
03-24-2005, 08:46 PM
The guy that tied up his wife and dround her and the unborn baby in california.
What would you do if she didn't quite dround but was in the same non vegatative state that terri is in.
The husband says she wanted to die if she was ever in this state.
Sounds like a good way to cover his tracks.
And all these courts did not find the same results as the original court.
They just refused to change the findings.
A lot of them didn't even look at the evidence and none of the new stuff we are hearing about today was even looked at.
Some of these nurses went to the police many years ago but the police ignored them.

gnarley
03-24-2005, 08:47 PM
I can't prove that the color blue is really blue either but that doesn't make the color of the sky a different color. Lack of proof doesn't mean something doesn't exist. And you are right that I don't have a right to "push my faith on others", It is not a right, it is an obligation, both to others who may not have found that faith and to the God that I have faith in.
I am Mrs. Gnarley - frankly, I am appalled that this messaging back and forth isn't sticking to the root of what this forum orginally was created to be - that of Hot Boats - go forward guys and gals, and stay in the water! Let the bloody media cover the bullcrap news!

Seadog
03-25-2005, 06:58 AM
The husband spent the first five years of this trying to believe she would recover. He learned nursing so that he could care for her. Finally, he realized what common sense was saying and realized that his wife that he loved was no longer there. He could have pulled out at any time. By divorcing her, her parents would have bankrupt theirselves and anyone else involved. He could have been happily married and enjoying his new family, but he is paying attorney fees and suffering the scorn of the pea-brains. Nothing that he could get out of this would be financially worth this.
His motive seems pretty clear. He is dedicated to his wife's memory and is trying to see that her body is allowed to rest. If her parents were not such fanatics, they would have allowed their daughter the dignity of death. I have been through this type of situation twice now and there is no answer that is 100%. My grandfather spent a year as a vegetable because the doctors would not cease using any means to keep him alive. He was able to go home occasionaly, but it was not a thinking body that would try to wander around at odd hours. It was a computer that was fried and retreiving odd memories. When my MIL was admitted to the hospital for the final time, they knew how to deal with these situations. The family decided to allow her to die with dignity and her daughters spent three days at her side, knowing she would never speak to them again or regain any consciousness. Lingering death can be painful, but any real christian should never keep a soul trapped between the body and heaven.

Kurtis500
03-25-2005, 07:17 AM
You have no right to push your faith on anyone else. You choose to accept and that's your right but it doesn't prove your god's existance.
Just what was pushed on you? Is this your standard reaction when confronted by religion? Seeems your pushing you view about religion just as much.. dont you think? If people want to share thier opinions then let em.
About Schiavo, its the husbands decision..

MagicMtnDan
03-25-2005, 08:27 AM
Is THIS the man you think should be responsible for Terri Schiavo's fate?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43463
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42294
Read these two articles (above) and see if it doesn't make you wonder...
Though severely brain-damaged, Terri Schiavo breathes and maintains a heart beat and blood pressure on her own. Although her vision is impaired, she can see and move her limbs. But she needs a feeding tube connected to her stomach to sustain her life.
After attorneys' fees were deducted, more than $700,000 of the $1.3 million awarded to Terri Schiavo was placed in a trust fund to cover her therapy and medical expenses. Michael Schiavo was also awarded $600,000 to compensate for his loss. WND reported that more than half of the money earmarked for Terri Schiavo's medical care has been spent on Michael Schiavo's eight-year legal battle to end her life, despite attorneys' public statements to the contrary. Schiavo attorney George Felos was reimbursed for fees totaling $358,434. Michael Schiavo's other attorney, Deborah Bushnell, was paid $80,309. The attorneys say only about $50,000 remains of the malpractice award.
In February of 1990 at the age of 26, Terri Schiavo collapsed at home and oxygen was cut off to her brain for several minutes. The cause of the collapse is disputed. Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, blames a cardiac arrest induced by a potassium imbalance associated with bulimia. The Schindlers suspect he tried to strangle her, based on court testimony by a neurologist that Terri had suffered a neck injury when she was admitted to the hospital.

Jordy
03-25-2005, 08:31 AM
For fukk's sake MMD, just let it go. It's over. :sleeping:
Much like gay marriage (maybe a bad example for you), but if she lives or dies, is it going to affect your quality of life? Maybe you should just go buy a boat and enjoy that for a while and not worry about what someone's, what should be personal, business that is happening on the other side of the country. :D

superdave013
03-25-2005, 08:38 AM
I am Mrs. Gnarley - frankly, I am appalled that this messaging back and forth isn't sticking to the root of what this forum orginally was created to be - that of Hot Boats - go forward guys and gals, and stay in the water! Let the bloody media cover the bullcrap news!
This is the sandbar forum and that's just what it's for. To jibber jabber about what every ya want. There are other forums that are boating locatoin and different types of boat tech forums. Those stay on track.
Oh, we have the Bench racers forum to talk smack too.

gnarley
03-25-2005, 08:41 AM
Just what was pushed on you? Is this your standard reaction when confronted by religion? Seeems your pushing you view about religion just as much.. dont you think? If people want to share thier opinions then let em.
About Schiavo, its the husbands decision..
Kurtis, mickeyfinn says
I can't prove that the color blue is really blue either but that doesn't make the color of the sky a different color. Lack of proof doesn't mean something doesn't exist. And you are right that I don't have a right to "push my faith on others", It is not a right, it is an obligation, both to others who may not have found that faith and to the God that I have faith in.
When anyone states it is not a personal choice, they are saying a little more than it's their opinion, aren't they? Then he says "you are right that I don't have a right to "push my faith on others", It is not a right, it is an obligation, both to others who may not have found that faith and to the God that I have faith in
He feels he is obligated to push his faith on nonbelievers or those that are different than him. I disagree and IMHO everyone has the right to believe what they want.
The Schiavo's and Schindler's believe different things and they have that right. Just because the Schindler's have faith their daughter will improve doesn't mean she will, but it is still the Husbands choice legally

Essex502
03-25-2005, 09:02 AM
The Terri Schiavo that Michael Schiavo loved is gone. May as well be dead if the body is not. It's none of our business.

Essex502
03-25-2005, 09:02 AM
Got boat yet MMD?

Kurtis500
03-25-2005, 09:59 AM
Kurtis, mickeyfinn says
When anyone states it is not a personal choice, they are saying a little more than it's their opinion, aren't they? Then he says "you are right that I don't have a right to "push my faith on others", It is not a right, it is an obligation, both to others who may not have found that faith and to the God that I have faith in
He feels he is obligated to push his faith on nonbelievers or those that are different than him. I disagree and IMHO everyone has the right to believe what they want.
Mickyfinn feels he has an obligation to tell people about it. You are no different in feeling you have and obligation to reject it. And your different how? Is it because he did it 'first'? He has a right to say it, you have a right to not accept it. But you push your view of in light of being viewed as pushed against. Same difference. Heres YOUR view by the way:
Without proof you only have faith, what your faith is, is between you and your maker. You have no right to push your faith on anyone else. You choose to accept and that's your right but it doesn't prove your god's existance.
Carry on...
BTW, if my wife was Terry Schiavo I would be extremely angry her parents are trying to intercede in my decisions and become a 'bigger' family member than me.

gnarley
03-25-2005, 11:02 AM
Kurtis, Actually I don't feel an obligation to reject it. I feel I have the right think for myself and make decisions. Where does that obligation end that mickeyfinn and others feel; with knocking on doors of folks who may not want to listen, trying to prolong a life though the courts have said there is no hope or bombing Dr's offices trying to protect the unborn and killing the innocent? Where does it stop? I feel there are many in the religious right that go too far. I don't know if there is an opposite side to their stand or as radical. I am thankful that we can think for ourselves in this country and religious zealots are not able to persecute those that differ from them.
Don’t we all have the right to think and believe what we choose? If mickeyfinn feels obligated to tell everyone he feels obligated so be it. But IMO that is a reason there is so much hatred, people feeling that they need to tell everyone else to believe what they do. :argue:
If we kept religion out of it we all just might get along and Terri Schiavo might die with dignity. Even the Vatican has a conflicting views and misinterpretation of what the pope says with his feeling on dieing and intervention.
This isn't our fight or any of our business is it? Why can't we all just get along? :(

Kurtis500
03-25-2005, 03:42 PM
Kurtis, Actually I don't feel an obligation to reject it. I feel I have the right think for myself and make decisions. Where does that obligation end that mickeyfinn and others feel; with knocking on doors of folks who may not want to listen, trying to prolong a life though the courts have said there is no hope or bombing Dr's offices trying to protect the unborn and killing the innocent? Where does it stop? I feel there are many in the religious right that go too far. I don't know if there is an opposite side to their stand or as radical. I am thankful that we can think for ourselves in this country and religious zealots are not able to persecute those that differ from them.
Its clear you make no distinction between the person knocking on your door, and those bombing a baby clinic. A 'religious' person is capable of all the above if they act out thier 'true' belief to the end?
Actually, yes, there is an opposite side to thier stand, the one on non-religious secularism. Those that define religion as a "sham and a crutch for weak-minded people." You should look up Friedrich Nietzsche and Karl Marx, then see what kind of impact thier philosophies had just in the last century.
Don’t we all have the right to think and believe what we choose? If mickeyfinn feels obligated to tell everyone he feels obligated so be it. But IMO that is a reason there is so much hatred, people feeling that they need to tell everyone else to believe what they do. :argue:
Yep, and thanks for telling me what you believe.
Even the Vatican has a conflicting views and misinterpretation of what the pope says with his feeling on dieing and intervention.
The pope isnt the source of Christianity. He's just another person in this world.
Once again, if I was Terry's husband I would be upset over the 'in-laws' intrusion into my marrige.

voodooCanoe
03-25-2005, 03:53 PM
They topic of the thread is why do you want here dead?
Haven't read a good reason yet. Saying pull the plug doesn't seem to be a reason. At this point she must have a very strong will to live. 5 days with no food or water and she is still holding on! The end is near! :confused:

mickeyfinn
03-25-2005, 07:44 PM
They topic of the thread is why do you want here dead?
Haven't read a good reason yet. Saying pull the plug doesn't seem to be a reason. At this point she must have a very strong will to live. 5 days with no food or water and she is still holding on! The end is near! :confused:
Okay,
A direct question deserves a direct answer so here it is. I think from what I read this is the majority opinion.(I'm sure there will no shortage of people chiming in if they disagree):
I don't think anyone "wants her dead". I think most people here are simply of the opinion that a man and wife are almost always more aware of the others desires and wishes than either set of parents. No one is saying that her husband is a Saint. I don't think anyone here knows if he is guilty of some of the atrocities of which he has been accused. It sounds to me like if he is guilty of these things then those involved who have not pushed the issue legally or publicly until this point are as guilty as he. Maybe she at one point could have been rehabilitated. If the nurse, family or friends has or had evidence that he was in fact trying to kill her, injure her or any of the other things of which he has been accused should have pushed this issue at the time it occurred. I don't think anyone here would object if the authorities were to collect evidence to support these claims and press charges even today. This all being said it is still no reason to prolong the suffering that this poor woman may be enduring. That the courts even considered butting their heads in where it didn't belong is discouraging, however the fact that they did and didn't even find there was enough of a case to warrant hearing it says a lot and carries some weight with me in supporting the husbands wishes at this point. At this point who caused her to be in this condition is not the issue when considering her treatment. If enough evidence existed to prove she was not already gone except for the basic brain functions which are keepig her alive I believe that the courts or even the doctors Hippocratic oath would step in to prevent an unnecessary death. It is easy to start a lot of hype in the media which does not have to be substantiated. Much more difficult prove the hype has a basis in fact when in front of a judge. I think that what is happening to this woman is cruel and a part of me believes that at this point lethal injection might be preferable to allowing her to starve to death. Then the other side of my brain kicks in and I realize that allowing the lethal injection puts way too much power in a doctors hand. Yes what is happening is cruel, but the truth is this is a cruel world and sometimes there is no easy choice. Once again this is my opinion, I am not close to the case and know nothing that I have not read either in the paper, heard on the news or read on different sites. My opinion might be different if I were closer involved, but I don't think so. If the fact that she has no chance at functioning again (communicating in some form, enjoying the fact she is still alive somehow) instead of laying in a bed being supported by tube and IV's then I believe the husband has picked the correct path for her to follow.
Let the flames begin if they must but from what I read here the above is the gist of most peoples feelings on this matter.

MagicMtnDan
03-25-2005, 09:09 PM
Once again, if I was Terry's husband I would be upset over the 'in-laws' intrusion into my marrige.
Are you talking about the "husband" who has a common law wife (another woman)?
Are you talkinga about the "husband" who has two children with his common law wife?
Are you talking about the "husband" whose behavior has been less than upstanding for the past 15 years?
Have you even read anything about this man? :confused: (try clicking on the two links above)

Rexone
03-25-2005, 09:15 PM
I've been watching this thread off and on for days and listening to the media etc etc. Like said above I don't think there's a 100% correct solution or answer. And I myself have mixed feelings on the whole subject for numerous reasons.
What I do find particularly sad though is the inhumane way Terri is being now "forced" to die. Our laws would never allow our worst serial killers sentenced to death to starve to death over 2 weeks. That wouldn't be humane and the human rights preachers would be all over it like ants on a leaky honey bear. They get a shot and are dead in a matter of minutes. Many states outlawed hanging or the electric chair in favor of lethal injection just for these reasons.
How is it that the laws of this country place more value on some serial killer asshole's rights, feelings and/or pain than people like Terri. Hell we euthanize our animals with more compassion than is what is presently occuring with Terri. I don't get it.
And to argue she's brain dead and can't feel anything or whatever... we'll I call bs because no one that argues that has ever been down that road and come back to tell the story. That is speculation.

Jordy
03-25-2005, 09:32 PM
Yeah and it seems to me that Kevorkian is still in prison. :(

wsuwrhr
03-25-2005, 09:36 PM
I've been watching this thread off and on for days and listening to the media etc etc. Like said above I don't think there's a 100% correct solution or answer. And I myself have mixed feelings on the whole subject for numerous reasons.
What I do find particularly sad though is the inhumane way Terri is being now "forced" to die. Our laws would never allow our worst serial killers sentenced to death to starve to death over 2 weeks. That wouldn't be humane and the human rights preachers would be all over it like ants on a leaky honey bear. They get a shot and are dead in a matter of minutes. Many states outlawed hanging or the electric chair in favor of lethal injection just for these reasons.
How is it that the laws of this country place more value on some serial killer asshole's rights, feelings and/or pain than people like Terri. Hell we euthanize our animals with more compassion than is what is presently occuring with Terri. I don't get it.
And to argue she's brain dead and can't feel anything or whatever... we'll I call bs because no one that argues that has ever been down that road and come back to tell the story. That is speculation.
Word...
There is no good solution, I am on both sides of the deal.
Brian

Seadog
03-26-2005, 06:26 AM
MMd, as much as I agree with you on some issues, you are totally off base on this. No body wants her dead. She is already dead and the husband wants simply to bury the body. He has been a widower for almost fifteen years and you want to deny him the right to live his life. Much of what has been said about him is fairy tales and distortions created by those who would use this issue for their own means. Her parents, their lawyers and the extremists have to create him into this reprehensive villian to elevate their cause. You of all people should recognize this tactic. It is a favorite of lawyers and liberals.

mtndewdrops
03-26-2005, 06:34 AM
This is a tragic story...I think the parents need to accept the fact that their daughter is gone and that they are holding on to her shell. Her spirit lives on...God Bless Terry, she is in our prayers.

Norseman
03-26-2005, 06:36 AM
If you're for letting her be killed by starving her and dehydrating her, why?
If your daughter was handicapped (Terri Schiavo is NOT brain dead), and her husband was with another woman who had kids with him, would you want him deciding her fate? If you had visited your daughter for the past 15 years and seen her respond to your talking and visiting her would you want her to be killed by having her feeding tube pulled?
If a hospital announced that anyone who is mentally retarded wasn't going to be given food or water anymore how would you feel about that?
If your doctor told you that your grandmother or grandfather who has Alzheimers wasn't going to be given food or water anymore and was going to die as a result, how would you feel then?
If the animal shelters announced they aren't going to give food or water to the animals anymore how many people do you think would protest, riot and scream bloody murder?
If you think Terri Schiavo should be killed, how do you justify that? (She had/has no living will - NO ONE knows what she would have wanted). If you believe she should be killed who do you think should be killed next?
Here's the woman you want killed:
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/1/123125/123087/2076353/2089094/031023_Terri_Schiavo.jpg
I don't think it is the goverments right to step in, it's something that should be decided by the family!!!!
Not by the govenor or the president or congress. If her parents had a problem with the husband making decisions for her, they had 15 years plus to get appointed as her guardian.

Wet Dream
03-26-2005, 05:24 PM
The parents gave up on the appeals. They said she is fading fast and probably won't make it through the weekend.

CornWater
03-26-2005, 06:53 PM
Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state... After 15 years, she has not gotten better nor made and improvments. She is brain dead, and if you would do any research on the reports made by credible neurologists they would prove to you that she is... Her parents are wanting to keep her alive for their own selfish reasons. After 15 years of being a vegetable I think she deserves the right to pass on, she is not getting any better.
Hey MMD.. put that in your pipe and smoke it.. great post screw chick(I shortened the name for my benefit :D )