Mufflers

[charlyox]

Did anybody get hasseled this past weekend for noise?

[SCUBA STEVE]

It didnt look like it. Probably 1 out of every 10 boats had mufflers. :jawdrop:

[OutCole'd]

I was pretty nervous pulling to Tompson Bay on Saturday. The was LE in front of me about 50' and another behind me about 75' and neither looked my way, and I would guess I am just slightly over the limit with a non muffled 525.
Then again, I did not have three beer bongs hanging up and 15 peeps dancing on my boat either.

[SCUBA STEVE]

I was pretty nervous pulling to Tompson Bay on Saturday. The was LE in front of me about 50' and another behind me about 75' and neither looked my way, and I would guess I am just slightly over the limit with a non muffled 525.
Then again, I did not have three beer bongs hanging up and 15 peeps dancing on my boat either.
I thought I saw "my" boat out there. :D It was just you and your boy right? (assuming that was your boy)

[Not So Fast]

I was pretty nervous pulling to Tompson Bay on Saturday. The was LE in front of me about 50' and another behind me about 75' and neither looked my way, and I would guess I am just slightly over the limit with a non muffled 525.
Then again, I did not have three beer bongs hanging up and 15 peeps dancing on my boat either.
Like I have said all along Bill, this is being blown way out of proportion, at least here it is. If you are not acting like an a-hole then you wont be hasseled. NSF

[OutCole'd]

I thought I saw "my" boat out there. :D It was just you and your boy right? (assuming that was your boy)
Yep, that was me, next time stop by.

[SCUBA STEVE]

Yep, that was me, next time stop by.
Will do, thanks :D

[Essex502]

LE for the most part doesn't care unless you are grossly loud. It is only the BS at the Lake Havasu Marina that is causing any problems in Havasu. There is some informal testing going on at Windsor by the Park Rangers but nothing formal yet. Expect it to be formal in the future but, again, only those that exceed the noise limit by a goodly amount will probably be confronted.
As DILLIGAF stated - all those factors - background noise from boat motors, music, conversations, banging on the courtesy dock, proximity to the structure supporting the courtesy dock(s), what lane they test you in..etc., etc.,etc. Even time of day (air temp) can affect the noise level. We saw boats tested in lanes 1,2 & 3 a coupla' Friday's ago. Tell me how a boat that passes in Lane #3 (tester on the courtesy dock) @ 86 dB(A) is consistent with the same spec from lane #1.

[charlyox]

I'm with you Tom.I don't need to give them a reason to pull me over.When are you headed out to Bullhead for the Laughlin run?

[riverracerx]

We launched at the Marina Saturday around 11:00. No one was asking at the guard shack and no one was checking on the ramps? It was still busy too.
Maybe the db checking guy was in the pooper?

[jackpunx]

I agree with you guys.. its not worth getting hassled over.. I love the sound of my boat.. but.. it could ruin my day if I get hassled and kicked off the lake.... I didnt loose any performance.. and the cost of my mufflers is only 100$ more than the ticket..
I would really like to take them off.. so I'll keep watching you guys to see what happens.. but for now..Im going with the flow :eat:

[riverroyal]

weve been two weekends in a row,,cops have way to much to do other than noise issues,,,,,1st weekend a sherrif followed me from the bridge to thompson bay,thru the channel,he was 6 feet behind me the whole way,it was grid locked,no problems,,,i passed maybe 8 cops within 15 feet last weekend,they never looked,,,,there was so much partying,drunk underage idiots that that last thing they have time for is mufflers,,,just dont use the marina,,,,,,,,by the way,,,Magic deck with 496 ho,,,,,see ya

[jackpunx]

HHMMM.. well.. I was running somwhere around 105db so.. Im not sure it would have been as easy for me to slip under the radar

[SCUBA STEVE]

I agree with you guys.. its not worth getting hassled over.. I love the sound of my boat.. but.. it could ruin my day if I get hassled and kicked off the lake.... I didnt loose any performance.. and the cost of my mufflers is only 100$ more than the ticket..
I would really like to take them off.. so I'll keep watching you guys to see what happens.. but for now..Im going with the flow :eat:
I am a little behind the times, but Mark where is the $400 ticket cost coming from. In the Hot boat mag, it said AZ is charging something like$50 and CA up to $250. :confused:

[Havasu Hangin']

Under the testing guidelines, I believe the ambient noise levels have to be 60dbs under the new California law? If so, that is next to impossible in crowded areas.
I personally do not think that there is much difference from past years. In the past, tickets have been issued for "no muffling device"...as they are now (that is an easy visual inspection). During the big weekends, when SB Sherriff are out there, it may be a different story.
Either way, the Marina's selective discrimination (by not allowing legal boats to launch), is a whole 'nother issue. I hope everyone is still boycotting that place.

[rvrpig]

Has any one ever thought of using "Silent Choice Mufflers"? A buddy of mine has a set and his speed is not affected at all. When his mufflers are put on silent...you cant even tell that his boat is running.

[Havasu Hangin']

Has any one ever thought of using "Silent Choice Mufflers"? A buddy of mine has a set and his speed is not affected at all. When his mufflers are put on silent...you cant even tell that his boat is running.
They may meet the sound requirements, but I don't think they meet the requirements as a muffling device (must be permanantly affixed).
I guess it's only illegal if you get caught? :supp:

[rvrpig]

well they are permantly mounted..Just have a switch to turn them on or off.

[Essex502]

Under the testing guidelines, I believe the ambient noise levels have to be 60dbs under the new California law? If so, that is next to impossible in crowded areas.
I personally do not think that there is much difference from past years. In the past, tickets have been issued for "no muffling device"...as they are now (that is an easy visual inspection). During the big weekends, when SB Sherriff are out there, it may be a different story.
Either way, the Marina's selective discrimination (by not allowing legal boats to launch), is a whole 'nother issue. I hope everyone is still boycotting that place.
The SAE J2005 test procedure specified in the California Law enacted under AB1555 has a whole lot of precise criteria that is almost impossible to meet in the Marina or on the water. Arizona's law is even more difficult to test to accurately. Hence, unless a boat is grossly over the limits or there are no muffling devices at all, I'd doubt LE will cite you. Stop you - maybe. Cite you for noise violation - unlikely except for gross noise.
Absolutely, the Marina is so far out of bounds and not compliant with any law. Nor do they have any authority to test or prevent boats from launching.

[Sanger D]

the river is still pretty cool,they probably wont be really inforcing anything until the middle summer months and still, they will probably let you slide,way bigger fish to fry out there than noise violations ,just don,t act the fool and your gonna be just fine ;) have a great summer people and vest up!!!!

[Havasu Hangin']

They had us line up and wait for lane 1. I mentioned to him the other noise and so forth and he claims that doesn't affect the test because he is pointing straight at the testing source :(. I wasn't going to argue with him. As I stated he was a nice guy...maybe about late 30's with a dark beard.
Everytime the noise level is doubled, it adds 3 dbs to the reading. The noise levels can be increased from both ambient noise, as well as sound reflections (the meter is reading the same sound wave twice)...either off that wall, or something like echoing under a swimstep.
That place is a joke.

[Essex502]

They had us line up and wait for lane 1. I mentioned to him the other noise and so forth and he claims that doesn't affect the test because he is pointing straight at the testing source :(. I wasn't going to argue with him. As I stated he was a nice guy...maybe about late 30's with a dark beard.
Trust me, from the extensive testing and involvement with this issue, I have found that noise is NOT directional and the meters cannot ignore background noise. That is truly false.
You were right not to argue with him. Wouldn't do any good any probably get you banned for life as at least one other board member has been.

[Rexone]

well they are permantly mounted..Just have a switch to turn them on or off.
CA law states the silencers must be "in constant operation", thereby eliminating all cut out and silent choice type systems from being legal to run in CA (not AZ). Now weather it will be enforced is another matter entirely. But that is what the CA law says.

[Boatcop]

well they are permantly mounted..Just have a switch to turn them on or off.
All the statutes read something to the effect of "In Constant Operation." In particular California Law:
(b) A motorized recreational vessel that is operated in or upon
the inland waters, or in or upon ocean waters that are within one
mile of the coastline of the state shall be equipped at all times
with a muffler or a muffler system that is all of the following:
(1) In good working condition.
(2) In constant operation.
(3) Installed in a manner that effectively brings the vessel into
compliance with Section 654.05.
And to respectfully disagree with Mike (Rexone), Arizona Law:
5-336. Muffling devices
A. Every motor driven watercraft shall at all times be equipped with effective equipment, in good working order and in constant operation, to prevent excessive or unusual noise except as provided in subsection C.
Silent Choice or any other switchable muffling systems are illegal.

[beach gomer]

On 4/2 I was talking to a SBSD officer and he said they don't even have the noise meters.The county does not have the money to buy them.

[Rexone]

Thanks for pointing that out Alan, I didn't realize AZ law included that as well.

[RiverDave]

5-336. Muffling devices
A. Every motor driven watercraft shall at all times be equipped with effective equipment, in good working order and in constant operation, to prevent excessive or unusual noise except as provided in subsection C.
Dumb question here.. What's subsection C?
I'm assuming it's with permits, or racing applications etc..
RD

[Boatcop]

Subsection C:
C. All watercraft actually competing in a regatta, boat race or official trials for speed records, and within the time limits authorized by the sanctioning body of such event are exempt from this section. Permits designating place and time limits are required and shall be issued by the department prior to the testing of watercraft on the water when sufficient evidence is provided by the applicant that such watercraft is actually entered in an event sanctioned by a national or regional organization having jurisdiction over the event.

[Essex502]

By the way....The guy said that he has had some Rex Marine mufflers not pass....I was scratching my head on that one because I put your mufflers on.
The Rex silencers passed the official California testing procedure - SAE J2005 - with a stock HP525 and an integrated swim step and exiting above the water line. Now...that doesn't mean it will pass the B.S. Lake Havasu Marina test. The same boat originally failed their initial test, passed then passed again. All tests were supposedly performed in the same manner by three different operators. Many outside factors influence a test. That's why the test procedure is very, very specific. The LH Marina's test is not repeatable due to the many outside factors that are present in the Marina at most times of the day.

[Huckleberry]

What amazes me the most about all of this is that folks are already back to patronizing LHM! How quickly we all forget the drum-banging that went on last summer and fall. :confused:

[Little Wood Boat]

You wrote on your site that a boat without "mufflers" may be in compliance merely by having water running through the exhaust. So, why would "captian's call", "silent choice" et al be considered unlawful if it has water running throughthe exhaust?
per BoatCop
There's no way of telling if this boat or that set-up would be in compliance with noise laws, absent actual testing.
Everybody's all hung up on this "muffler" deal that they don't realize that their boat may be in compliance even without mechanical mufflers.
Most boats, particularly those with through-transom exhaust, have water flowing through the exhaust manifolds and exhaust system that quiet the exhaust considerably.
The laws don't specify that "mufflers" are required. Instead they call for a "muffling device", which water injected pipes or manifolds qualify, as long as it quiets the exhaust down.
Most people are nit-picking this thing to death. People KNOW when their boat is too loud. If someone is only wondering if it is, then it's probably OK. But the only way to know for sure is to have it tested.
Alan
Seems subjective until a meter is used....?

[prosthogod]

Does anybody know about theupcoming law requiring manufactures to install not only mufflers but catalytic converters by I believe 2006-2007?

[redbuddy]

Do you think my twin, built 500 efi, above swim step, non muffled
32'Active Thunder pass?

[rvrjunkie]

No way :smile:

[Havasu Hangin']

Do you think my twin, built 500 efi, above swim step, non muffled
32'Active Thunder pass?
Sure.
Just don't turn them on.
:notam:

[Little Wood Boat]

BoatCop, Would you look back a few posts and respond if you would? Thank you!

[Boatcop]

Any type of muffling system is legal. Not necessarily "mechanical "mufflers", as long as it brings the exhaust noise level within stated limits.
Water injected headers apply, as long as the water is injected into the exhaust elbows to quiet the exhaust.
Back in the '70s, people heard that "Dry Stacks" (no water injection) were illegal. So they rigged a hose from the cooling system to the end of the pipes so the water would just flow out. Not Dry Stacks anymore.
However that method did nothing to quiet the exhaust and those people were getting cited for "no muffling device".
Water flowing through the exhaust manifold and exhaust, as in the Hardin Marine manifolds, acted appropriately as a muffling device and quieted the noise into compliance.
Many boats with this set up can be legal, as long as it brings the noise down. However any device that would divert the water away from the exhaust or divert the exhaust away from the water would not be considered "in constant operation", and therefore be illegal.