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View Full Version : Something for all you 496 Ho Bags to ponder.



KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 09:35 AM
Lots of talk on this subject but one point that is eluding a bunch of you is that your used 496HO is worth between 7-11 K depending on the condition and hours. Compound this the 8-10 K of a kit and installation and you now have alot of coin tied up in this lil shitbox. I call them shitboxes because I know this motor intimately, I've owned 3 of them and now with my new 34' Kachina I own 2 more. If I dont like them why did I buy them you may ask? Short answer is I didnt want to finance 25 K more on my boat.
For 21K you can get a Larry Peto 580 that produces 675 HP and around 700 lBS of torque, it is ridiculous the amount of power this thing kicks out. http://www.larrysengine.com/engine_580TKM.htm.
I just wanted to put it out there for ya, not to piss on your tuner parade or anything, but we all know once you go into a motor there are MANY return trips, am I lying???
Love
Kenny

dirty old man
04-14-2005, 09:44 AM
heard from a Merc dealer here at Lake Mead (LV) that if you put mufflers on you may have warrantee problems. ???

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 09:57 AM
Another good point.
However, the other discussion also deals with hours of use. I am sure a Peto motor, like GT or Teague is going to go, let's say 500 hours tops? My guess would be 1000-1200 for a Raylar-topped stock bottomed HO, and say 2000 hours for stock HO. The 2000 comes from a Teague on Tech article, in case you were going to ask.
Now, for those of us that don't necessarily want to be the first one to the dock; a tweaked HO is fine. We will also be around to pull someone in when a valve seat comes loose or a motor leans out at 12lbs of boost and turnes the cylinders into metal foundarys. And, we'll be happy to help.

dicudmore
04-14-2005, 10:02 AM
Another good point.
However, the other discussion also deals with hours of use. I am sure a Peto motor, like GT or Teague is going to go, let's say 500 hours tops? My guess would be 1000-1200 for a Raylar-topped stock bottomed HO, and say 2000 hours for stock HO. The 2000 comes from a Teague on Tech article, in case you were going to ask.
Now, for those of us that don't necessarily want to be the first one to the dock; a tweaked HO is fine. We will also be around to pull someone in when a valve seat comes loose or a motor leans out at 12lbs of boost and turnes the cylinders into metal foundarys. And, we'll be happy to help.
I would think on the average the HO would go a bunch of hours....
HOWEVER I can totally see Ken's point on the HO as his experience with the motor has been negative to put it politely. I'm pretty sure he broke 2 of them last year, within 100 hours of use... :yuk:

INSman
04-14-2005, 10:03 AM
Lots of talk on this subject but one point that is eluding a bunch of you is that your used 496HO is worth between 7-11 K depending on the condition and hours. Compound this the 8-10 K of a kit and installation and you now have alot of coin tied up in this lil shitbox. I call them shitboxes because I know this motor intimately, I've owned 3 of them and now with my new 34' Kachina I own 2 more. If I dont like them why did I buy them you may ask? Short answer is I didnt want to finance 25 K more on my boat.
For 21K you can get a Larry Peto 580 that produces 675 HP and around 700 lBS of torque, it is ridiculous the amount of power this thing kicks out. http://www.larrysengine.com/engine_580TKM.htm.
I just wanted to put it out there for ya, not to piss on your tuner parade or anything, but we all know once you go into a motor there are MANY return trips, am I lying???
Love
Kenny
Kenny
You certainly make some valid points, but some of these decisions are tougher to make since you may have drive issues above 600Hp/600 Lbs torque, and if you went with an aftermarket drive right out of the chute with an aftermarket motor, you lose some potential package pricing advantages from the builder and Merc. Financing the package is usually a concerns as well.
For me, I just did not want to pony up the money for the 525, with 500HP at propshaft, when I was able to get a 496 MAG, with the new 2005 XR drive and then add the Raylar kit (not sure if I will go 540Hp or 600HP) all for a total package price that made sense to me personally. That may not work for everyone, but I chose this route for very particular reasons that I am not at liberty to disclose on a public forum. I just hope not to regret my decisions and don't think that I will, but only time will tell. :D

shadow
04-14-2005, 10:04 AM
Another good point.
However, the other discussion also deals with hours of use. I am sure a Peto motor, like GT or Teague is going to go, let's say 500 hours tops? My guess would be 1000-1200 for a Raylar-topped stock bottomed HO, and say 2000 hours for stock HO. The 2000 comes from a Teague on Tech article, in case you were going to ask.
Now, for those of us that don't necessarily want to be the first one to the dock; a tweaked HO is fine. We will also be around to pull someone in when a valve seat comes loose or a motor leans out at 12lbs of boost and turnes the cylinders into metal foundarys. And, we'll be happy to help.
Good point Beer-30.Not to mention my 496 has been bullet proof up till this point.Trust me it gets used and abused more than most.

dicudmore
04-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Good point Beer-30.Not to mention my 496 has been bullet proof up till this point.Trust me it gets used and abused more than most.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say abused.....ok I would :D
It just knows two throttle positions. Idle and WOT :wink:

Dave C
04-14-2005, 10:18 AM
Yes Ken has a point for us speed junkies who can wrench (or those that can't with a large bankrolls who aren't afraid to use them ;) :D)
I am ready willing and able to throw my 496 away. Just talk to Paul Pfaff or GT marine for details ;)
HINT 572 EFI
For those of us who want to keep it simple, stay with the 496.

superdave013
04-14-2005, 10:20 AM
I hope you guys have better luck then I did. My 8.1L (496) didn't last one month in my wife's burban.
I'll stick with my Merlin based engine for the boat.

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 10:21 AM
Another good point.
However, the other discussion also deals with hours of use. I am sure a Peto motor, like GT or Teague is going to go, let's say 500 hours tops? My guess would be 1000-1200 for a Raylar-topped stock bottomed HO, and say 2000 hours for stock HO. The 2000 comes from a Teague on Tech article, in case you were going to ask.
Now, for those of us that don't necessarily want to be the first one to the dock; a tweaked HO is fine. We will also be around to pull someone in when a valve seat comes loose or a motor leans out at 12lbs of boost and turnes the cylinders into metal foundarys. And, we'll be happy to help.
Negative, I dont have hard numbers but it is a large displacement purpose built motor with internals far superior to what Merc is throwing into the 496 HO. What you gotta understand about these motors is they are not race grade by ANY means, their displacement and setup gives them a decent amount of HP but they are what we call in my industry "PRO-SUMER" it means top of the line in a consumer grade model. A little known fact is that these motors are not made in the same factory as the 'blue" motors, they are made in Stillwater OK with all the whackers and smaller motors. I'm not stirrin the pot here, i just dont want you guys wasting your coin on any project that doesn't really deserve it. If you start out with a purpose built motor i think you guys will be alot happier with it.

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 10:25 AM
Kenny
when I was able to get a 496 MAG, with the new 2005 XR drive and then add the Raylar kit (not sure if I will go 540Hp or 600HP) all for a total package price that made sense to me personally. :D
I just ordered the new XR'S also with the 496HO's for the 34' Drone I also added the full hydro IMCO steering. I did all that in anticipation of 2 new Petos in 18 months. You made a good choice.

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 10:36 AM
Again, Ken (no rhyme intended) for your wants, it will most certainly work best for you to go that route. And us others will always be a little envious of that situation, but that's just not what I want. Yeah, if the HO lets go one day, I'll surely beef it up. NO question. But unless the block was hurt, I would just use the seasoned block and mildly build it. For a 30' Sleek, I don't see a need for a monster Merlin. The boat reportedly gets squirrely around 90 anyway. One was built with 1000HP.
I'm sure your Bolero will make good use of 'em though!

GHTRIM
04-14-2005, 10:39 AM
Lots of talk on this subject but one point that is eluding a bunch of you is that your used 496HO is worth between 7-11 K depending on the condition and hours. Compound this the 8-10 K of a kit and installation and you now have alot of coin tied up in this lil shitbox. I call them shitboxes because I know this motor intimately, I've owned 3 of them and now with my new 34' Kachina I own 2 more. If I dont like them why did I buy them you may ask? Short answer is I didnt want to finance 25 K more on my boat.
For 21K you can get a Larry Peto 580 that produces 675 HP and around 700 lBS of torque, it is ridiculous the amount of power this thing kicks out. http://www.larrysengine.com/engine_580TKM.htm.
I just wanted to put it out there for ya, not to piss on your tuner parade or anything, but we all know once you go into a motor there are MANY return trips, am I lying???
Love
Kenny
Ken,
Will you buy your boat back?? I had no idea you sold me a "shit box" motor :burningm:

PHX ATC
04-14-2005, 10:40 AM
If you start out with a purpose built motor i think you guys will be alot happier with it.
Not to potificate your point, but maybe you didn't follow your own advice on the first purchase? I don't know your plans for your ride or what you wanted when you first purchased it either...I know plans change.
Another point (and my own personal one at that) is maybe a 496HO was too small of an engine and not matched for your 30 Kachina. I don't know, but 30 feet is an awful large load to push with a single big block motor of 425 hp. That's not saying it can't do it, but that it's a large taxing burden to ask of that hp range when bigger and better is available.
I think you're nuts buying 2 more HO's when you've had such bad luck. Even if you've got the internals changed a bit, a "kit" added, whatever, it's still the same motor built in Stillwater with the whackas and trolling motors, Ken! Either you're talking out your ass or you're on the juice this morning!!! :D

GHTRIM
04-14-2005, 10:41 AM
Ken,
Will you buy your boat back?? I had no idea you sold me a "shit box" motor :burningm:
Also, if my new Kachina has one motor and you say you've owned 3. This could only mean one thing.... I'm soon going to be on my 2nd motor in the Dalmation :confused: :D

Dave C
04-14-2005, 10:42 AM
The 496's only redeaming quality is the MEFI4 system.
The 496 is good till 600 HP then I would throw it out and go aftermarket.
I priced this all out and I wish I didn't buy the 496.
But I am willing to spend up to $8,000 on the 496 but thats it. AT that price it would be "sort-of" comparable to a 540-572 inch EFI motor BUT with the 540-572 making more power.

GHTRIM
04-14-2005, 10:43 AM
Not to potificate your point, but maybe you didn't follow your own advice on the first purchase? I don't know your plans for your ride or what you wanted when you first purchased it either...I know plans change.
Another point (and my own personal one at that) is maybe a 496HO was too small of an engine and not matched for your 30 Kachina. I don't know, but 30 feet is an awful large load to push with a single big block motor of 425 hp. That's not saying it can't do it, but that it's a large taxing burden to ask of that hp range when bigger and better is available.
I think you're nuts buying 2 more HO's when you've had such bad luck. Even if you've got the internals changed a bit, a "kit" added, whatever, it's still the same motor built in Stillwater with the whackas and trolling motors, Ken! Either you're talking out your ass or you're on the juice this morning!!! :D
Oh, NO, now my new boat is too big for the power provided???
Anyone know somebody that wants to buy a 30' Kachina???

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 10:44 AM
Again, Ken (no rhyme intended) for your wants, it will most certainly work best for you to go that route. And us others will always be a little envious of that situation, but that's just not what I want. Yeah, if the HO lets go one day, I'll surely beef it up. NO question. But unless the block was hurt, I would just use the seasoned block and mildly build it. For a 30' Sleek, I don't see a need for a monster Merlin. The boat reportedly gets squirrely around 90 anyway. One was built with 1000HP.
I'm sure your Bolero will make good use of 'em though!Yeah thats all you will get is around 85 in a 30 with 675HP, but with the torque you will get there quick. For me the 3k difference points me to a new motor instead of wrenching on the old ones. BTW, I have jumped your wake before in my 30 Shadow :D

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 10:45 AM
Ken,
Will you buy your boat back?? I had no idea you sold me a "shit box" motor :burningm:
Thats my pet name for them Don, I now have a "shitbox" stable :D :D :D

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 10:54 AM
Not to potificate your point, but maybe you didn't follow your own advice on the first purchase? I don't know your plans for your ride or what you wanted when you first purchased it either...I know plans change.
Another point (and my own personal one at that) is maybe a 496HO was too small of an engine and not matched for your 30 Kachina. I don't know, but 30 feet is an awful large load to push with a single big block motor of 425 hp. That's not saying it can't do it, but that it's a large taxing burden to ask of that hp range when bigger and better is available.
I think you're nuts buying 2 more HO's when you've had such bad luck. Even if you've got the internals changed a bit, a "kit" added, whatever, it's still the same motor built in Stillwater with the whackas and trolling motors, Ken! Either you're talking out your ass or you're on the juice this morning!!! :D Does 'Rockstar energy drink" count as juice? Nah if I had to pick any weak link I would say the drive in the 30' should be an XR or better since it has such a task getting the Shadow rolling. It was shown to be a combination of a bad ECM and lifter combined with my propensity to drive WOT that killed the first HO, the second was a rigged rebuild attempt by Marine max ( they FUCCING suck ) and on the 3rd I think they got it right. The 496 HO is now a solid consumer platform for semi exhilirating boating, well that is now that they have had guys like us as their guinea pigs for going on 3 years now. I will baby my new HO's til I dump em for the new toys and then i can run how I want too, HARD.
This post was for all the folks who didn't have all of the facts before commiting to a 10K endeavour, it is the power of our board in action and I hope it helps someone to make a better decision. If it does then I will expect my consultation fee in the form of 1 six pack of Stella beer.

dicudmore
04-14-2005, 10:55 AM
Also, if my new Kachina has one motor and you say you've owned 3. This could only mean one thing.... I'm soon going to be on my 2nd motor in the Dalmation :confused: :D
now Don just because Ken was blowing up motors like GrassPay$ blows up drives is no reason to think you'll be having the same luck :wink:

Kachina26
04-14-2005, 10:57 AM
Not everyone can pony up to pay the insurance on a boat with 675 HP :jawdrop:

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 11:53 AM
Not everyone can pony up to pay the insurance on a boat with 675 HP :jawdrop: It was 400 bucks a year diff

Chris Winn
04-14-2005, 12:38 PM
i can see the point but lets brak this down.
496 HO $9000.00 (taking the median cost, and still having to haggle with potential buyers over tons of BS and handling the sale)
adding raylar kit to 496 that is already installed in your boat $8500.00
considering that you are going to already have the 496 you are into your boat for about $8500.00 more (not taking and props and steering that are figured into any high po motor combo that you add)
+ you still have the factory closed cooling on the motor....and EFI!!!
total out the door for 525+ HP= 8500.00
peto motor $21,000.000
-496 money$9000.00
headers-$3000.00
sea strainer-$700.00 est
oil cooler- $800.00
misc crap$500.00 est
install $1200.00 est
total cost @ @18,200.00!!!
add EFI @ $2500-3000.00
$20,700.00
for about $10,000 (than the cost of what i have in it) more i am going to build a 496 stoker with all forged bottom end and a 3.3 whipple for at least 700hp (with my raylar heads)
it comes down what you want to spend, but here are the options that have looked at (and i do feel that i have done my homework)
good luck!

Powerquestboy
04-14-2005, 12:43 PM
It seems to me that people are taking Kachina Kens point the wrong way! I think he is saying if you like your stock 496 great, have a nice day. But if your one of these guys that is going to spend the 7-10K on various upgrades, raylar kit or Whipple, you might think about selling your stock 496 and taking the money for the upgrades and buying a turnkey performance motor.
Maybe 496 with raylar kit might go more hours, I'm not sure but almost always people want to go faster and I would rather start with a good building platform like a Peto motor than the 496.
Also you take in the comments about the outdrive, whole other ball of wax. When it comes down to it speed costs money there is no way around it, just some better ways to do it than others.

Dave C
04-14-2005, 01:39 PM
Your point is sound.
I can do a 572 EFI with all the stuff for about $10,000 after I sell my 496. But I don't have to pay labor so it would be more if you want someone to build and install it.
Thats why I would spend up to $8,000 on the 496 before I would dump it!
BTW that Raylar kit is $5800 ;) ;)
i can see the point but lets brak this down.
496 HO $9000.00 (taking the median cost, and still having to haggle with potential buyers over tons of BS and handling the sale)
adding raylar kit to 496 that is already installed in your boat $8500.00
considering that you are going to already have the 496 you are into your boat for about $8500.00 more (not taking and props and steering that are figured into any high po motor combo that you add)
+ you still have the factory closed cooling on the motor....and EFI!!!
total out the door for 525+ HP= 8500.00
peto motor $21,000.000
-496 money$9000.00
headers-$3000.00
sea strainer-$700.00 est
oil cooler- $800.00
misc crap$500.00 est
install $1200.00 est
total cost @ @18,200.00!!!
add EFI @ $2500-3000.00
$20,700.00
for about $10,000 (than the cost of what i have in it) more i am going to build a 496 stoker with all forged bottom end and a 3.3 whipple for at least 700hp (with my raylar heads)
it comes down what you want to spend, but here are the options that have looked at (and i do feel that i have done my homework)
good luck!

MKE - POWER
04-14-2005, 02:02 PM
Hey Chris,
Good to see you Emily Tuesday, that boy is BIG!
496HO..... Didn't you say that ECM found something interesting when they removed your stock heads? Doomed to the end?
Mark

Chris Winn
04-14-2005, 03:03 PM
Hey Chris,
Good to see you Emily Tuesday, that boy is BIG!
496HO..... Didn't you say that ECM found something interesting when they removed your stock heads? Doomed to the end?
Mark
you are right mark!
when the heads were pulled they found that i think 2 of the factory rockers were not oiled at assembly and had turned black with the (i think needle bearings) having been heavily damaged!
i was already out of warranty by 3 months with only 31 hours on the boat!
who knows how long that top end would have held before it went blammo! so in effect i should thank Raylar that i bought that kit becuase it saved me a major meltdown which would have happened during a family trip somtime and put me out for the rest of the season!
needless to say, we looked over every inch of the motor fro there on, evryone (***boat, ECM and raylar agreed that the rest of the motor was solid)
so i can understand why people the 496 is junk, but i will have a 700hp motor for less than $16k soon.
good luck to all on their motors, it all about whhat makes you feel comfortable

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 05:28 PM
Ken, you better up the ante on those new motors. I am thinking you will be in the $35K apiece area if you plan on having them survive your driving.
If you have blown up multiple stock big-blocks, you will definitely grenade a semi-serious motor. If you cut one corner on rods, pistons, block, cam, or valvetrain, you're gonna end up spending 496 type money over and over again for broken pieces and labor. It better be the BEST pieces obtainable. I would say billet rods and mostly titanium valvetrain. I just don't see $21k getting YOU into the safe zone.
Additionally, people are breaking XRs with less motor than you are thinking and they are probably driving them normal. I would try and package some Teague Platinums or equivalent.
You're looking into a hard world to live. You apparently want a large offshore type cruiser that you can drive like an 18' jet.
Yikes.

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 06:14 PM
Ken, you better up the ante on those new motors. I am thinking you will be in the $35K apiece area if you plan on having them survive your driving.
If you have blown up multiple stock big-blocks, you will definitely grenade a semi-serious motor. If you cut one corner on rods, pistons, block, cam, or valvetrain, you're gonna end up spending 496 type money over and over again for broken pieces and labor. It better be the BEST pieces obtainable. I would say billet rods and mostly titanium valvetrain. I just don't see $21k getting YOU into the safe zone.
Additionally, people are breaking XRs with less motor than you are thinking and they are probably driving them normal. I would try and package some Teague Platinums or equivalent.
You're looking into a hard world to live. You apparently want a large offshore type cruiser that you can drive like an 18' jet.
Yikes.
Ya big Doomsayer ya, Im not that rough on stuff.

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 06:16 PM
peto motor $21,000.000
-496 money$9000.00
headers-$3000.00
sea strainer-$700.00 est
oil cooler- $800.00
misc crap$500.00 est
install $1200.00 est
total cost @ @18,200.00!!!
good luck!
Who is selling you sea strainers for 700 bucks? They arent your friend. And Im not sure about all the other costs after headers, it's a lil worst case scenario dont you think?

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 06:19 PM
I will baby my new HO's til I dump em for the new toys and then i can run how I want too, HARD.
Doomsayer, huh? I didn't say it ^^^^
The wake jump deal must have been prior to January. That's when I bought Beer-30.

Havasu Hangin'
04-14-2005, 06:21 PM
What magic dust is in the Merc package that isn't in a GT or Phaff package?
Nothing.
Mercury Marine is a production line product. Mercury Racing is a specialized shop. However, they use the same GM and aftermarket parts (as GT or Phaff). The Merc 496 is just off-the-shelf parts from GM's truck division.
The number one thing that kills any motor is a loose nut on the steering wheel.
If you guys think that there is magic in the black or blue paint that makes them last longer than a specilized shop, then I have some beans I'd like to sell you.

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 06:27 PM
The number one thing that kills any motor is a loose nut on the steering wheel.
If you guys think that there is magic in the black or blue paint that makes them last longer than a specilized shop, then I have some beans I'd like to sell you.
Thank you, HH. Good speech. My goal would be to wax a blue motor's ass in the same boat (no offense if you read this INDIANSPRINGS, you didn't pay the premium) with $10K less motor. Man, the motor you can build for what they get for a blue motor. Sheez.

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 06:45 PM
Doomsayer, huh? I didn't say it ^^^^
The wake jump deal must have been prior to January. That's when I bought Beer-30.
Point taken, allow me to re-phrase. Run harder then I can run my Okie built shitboxes. Better?

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 07:10 PM
Ok, fair enough.
I still don't understand how you blew up even one big block. In drag racing and just plain growing up, I drove countless numbers of them and never trashed one. Sure, I wore them out! But it was smoke coming out of them, not pieces. How'd it (they) happen?

77charger
04-14-2005, 07:32 PM
driving a stock motor wide open to push a 30ft boat that doesnt sound like alot of strain on a motor YA RIGHT.I dont think a mercruiser motor is made to do that maybe short distance or even 3/4 throttle maybe more with a smaller lighter boat.When i am at the river i see many people pass me by loaded boat single motor sounds like the motor is struggling to me THEN THEY BLOW IT UP AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.while many others drive them as they are intended and have no probs.
It was shown to be a combination of a bad ECM and lifter combined with my propensity to drive WOT that killed the first HO, the second was a rigged rebuild attempt by Marine max ( they FUCCING suck ) and on the 3rd I think they got it right. The 496 HO is now a solid consumer platform for semi exhilirating boating, well that is now that they have had guys like us as their guinea pigs for going on 3 years now. I will baby my new HO's til I dump em for the new toys and then i can run how I want too, HARD.
T

KACHINA KEN
04-14-2005, 08:57 PM
Ok, fair enough.
I still don't understand how you blew up even one big block. In drag racing and just plain growing up, I drove countless numbers of them and never trashed one. Sure, I wore them out! But it was smoke coming out of them, not pieces. How'd it (they) happen?
It was a defect homie, nothing to do with me, 2nd one never made it off plane before being replaced with a solid one after lawyers were called in. This 3rd motor is fine.

SHAKEN Not Stirred
04-14-2005, 09:00 PM
Yes Ken has a point for us speed junkies who can wrench (or those that can't with a large bankrolls who aren't afraid to use them ;) :D)
I am ready willing and able to throw my 496 away. Just talk to Paul Pfaff or GT marine for details ;)
HINT 572 EFI
For those of us who want to keep it simple, stay with the 496.
:D

Raylar
04-14-2005, 09:16 PM
I thought I would throw in my two cents here. I don't presume to know everything about every motor, but there is one motor I am pretty sure I know better than most and thats the 496 or GM8.1 liter GEN 7 motor! I have been sqeeking and tweakin on this motor for about 4 years now including some of the early proto type versions. I can tell you all personally that the 496 in pure stock trim is a far stronger, more efficient, better machined and engineered motor than any previous GM big block, 366,396,402,427,454 and 502 included. These are all great motors in there day but in todays engine world the 496 is better. Sure the original stock version is basically a truck-industrial version that has been pressed into duty as a marine base engine, but its now stock pressure cast crank is stronger than any previous GM forged 1053 type cranks, its full cylinder bore cooling system design, its bigger stronger main caps and bulkheads, its new technology main and rod oiling designs and "alumina bearings coupled with forged rods with coated skirt
lightweight hypereutectic pistons with full float pins,an awesome windage tray and Cloyes double roller timing set make the stock 496 block a pretty impressive piece for the dollar. Consider that APBA offshore teams ran these motors for two straight years in the factory classes with nearly no failures. Mercury and GMC both took these motors and in boats ran the 300 hr full throttle tied to the dock tests with no failures leads me to belive that the performance boat and engine community has a nice platform to start with!
Sure they need some better parts to step up the levels, but believe me that when I say we are testing stronger variants you can believe it! Sure the real high horsepower versions need to be purpose built in any engine platform, but the 496 version will hold its own in time with all comers when its equipped with comparable aftermarket parts. My charge is to see that we can do it for considerably less than comparable "blue motors" and I know the Phaffs, Teagues,Petos, Raylars and other quality engine builders will be building very strong reliable versions of the 496's in the near future. Heck we just had to kick start the industry!
The nice thing now is that the "average" performance boater can upgrade his 496MAG or 496HO to a 525HP 600 ft/lb reliable torque "monster" without breaking the bank for the "blue motor" 502. Yes the HP525 is a beautiful part thats proven itself in hundreds of boats. Hell, it should for what they sell for!Yes there are great 500 to 625 HP Gen 6 purpose built motors from the "good builders" that will perform very well in any boat. But for regular performance boaters its nice to have a Merc ECM with "guardian" protecting your investment and providing hours and hours of trouble free start and fly performance. Peace of mind for a reasonable dollar, no wonder the 496 motor in boats out sells all other i/o motors by more than ten to one!
Glad I got that my chest!
Thought I would attach a picture of some of our new "goodies" for that poor 496. How about our new forged stroker crank, pistons and rods. Reliable 650HP 496's with Raylar parts should satisfy just about anybodies "need for speed" Heck, put a 3.3 Whipple on the supercharger version piston and 800+HP at about 7-8 lbs boost should light off just about any water rocket.
As I always say, "nothings impossible, it just costs more!"
Ray @ Raylar :hammerhea

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 09:48 PM
Thanks Ray. Excellent explaination. There are just too many needs to meet with just one motor. The 496 has it's place. The Raylar has it's place. The 525, 600, 800, 1050HPs have their places. And, the custom market has hundreds of places. No one likes to hear bashing of a competetor. That is simply bad business. Good for you for just explaining your purpose in life and not saying it is better than anyone elses. Keep up the good work.

Dusty Times
04-14-2005, 10:02 PM
Larry Peto for sure when I get something different than 500efi's
There is a reason why Preditor runs as well and consistent as it does.

rvrhlic
04-14-2005, 10:09 PM
I thought I would throw in my two cents here. I don't presume to know everything about every motor, but there is one motor I am pretty sure I know better than most and thats the 496 or GM8.1 liter GEN 7 motor! I have been sqeeking and tweakin on this motor for about 4 years now including some of the early proto type versions. I can tell you all personally that the 496 in pure stock trim is a far stronger, more efficient, better machined and engineered motor than any previous GM big block, 366,396,402,427,454 and 502 included. These are all great motors in there day but in todays engine world the 496 is better. Sure the original stock version is basically a truck-industrial version that has been pressed into duty as a marine base engine, but its now stock pressure cast crank is stronger than any previous GM forged 1053 type cranks, its full cylinder bore cooling system design, its bigger stronger main caps and bulkheads, its new technology main and rod oiling designs and "alumina bearings coupled with forged rods with coated skirt
lightweight hypereutectic pistons with full float pins,an awesome windage tray and Cloyes double roller timing set make the stock 496 block a pretty impressive piece for the dollar. Consider that APBA offshore teams ran these motors for two straight years in the factory classes with nearly no failures. Mercury and GMC both took these motors and in boats ran the 300 hr full throttle tied to the dock tests with no failures leads me to belive that the performance boat and engine community has a nice platform to start with!
Sure they need some better parts to step up the levels, but believe me that when I say we are testing stronger variants you can believe it! Sure the real high horsepower versions need to be purpose built in any engine platform, but the 496 version will hold its own in time with all comers when its equipped with comparable aftermarket parts. My charge is to see that we can do it for considerably less than comparable "blue motors" and I know the Phaffs, Teagues,Petos, Raylars and other quality engine builders will be building very strong reliable versions of the 496's in the near future. Heck we just had to kick start the industry!
The nice thing now is that the "average" performance boater can upgrade his 496MAG or 496HO to a 525HP 600 ft/lb reliable torque "monster" without breaking the bank for the "blue motor" 502. Yes the HP525 is a beautiful part thats proven itself in hundreds of boats. Hell, it should for what they sell for!Yes there are great 500 to 625 HP Gen 6 purpose built motors from the "good builders" that will perform very well in any boat. But for regular performance boaters its nice to have a Merc ECM with "guardian" protecting your investment and providing hours and hours of trouble free start and fly performance. Peace of mind for a reasonable dollar, no wonder the 496 motor in boats out sells all other i/o motors by more than ten to one!
Glad I got that my chest!
Thought I would attach a picture of some of our new "goodies" for that poor 496. How about our new forged stroker crank, pistons and rods. Reliable 650HP 496's with Raylar parts should satisfy just about anybodies "need for speed" Heck, put a 3.3 Whipple on the supercharger version piston and 800+HP at about 7-8 lbs boost should light off just about any water rocket.
As I always say, "nothings impossible, it just costs more!"
Ray @ Raylar :hammerhea
Ray,
have you guys figured out anything for Aaron at Absolute and the problem with the throttle body/linakge? Aaron told me he was talking to you and trying to figure something out. I am anxious to ge the boat finished and back on the water.
thanks

Raylar
04-14-2005, 10:26 PM
Yes, I have been in contact with Aaron several times, we will have a fix by tommorrow.
Thanks,
Ray @ Raylar :wink:

Jordy
04-14-2005, 10:39 PM
hypereutectic pistons
That's all I needed to hear to be scared to death. :jawdrop: :eek: :hammer2: :D

Beer-30
04-14-2005, 11:48 PM
Jordy, think outside the box. Aw,,,, never mind.

shadow
04-15-2005, 05:39 AM
I thought I would throw in my two cents here. I don't presume to know everything about every motor, but there is one motor I am pretty sure I know better than most and thats the 496 or GM8.1 liter GEN 7 motor! I have been sqeeking and tweakin on this motor for about 4 years now including some of the early proto type versions. I can tell you all personally that the 496 in pure stock trim is a far stronger, more efficient, better machined and engineered motor than any previous GM big block, 366,396,402,427,454 and 502 included. These are all great motors in there day but in todays engine world the 496 is better. Sure the original stock version is basically a truck-industrial version that has been pressed into duty as a marine base engine, but its now stock pressure cast crank is stronger than any previous GM forged 1053 type cranks, its full cylinder bore cooling system design, its bigger stronger main caps and bulkheads, its new technology main and rod oiling designs and "alumina bearings coupled with forged rods with coated skirt
lightweight hypereutectic pistons with full float pins,an awesome windage tray and Cloyes double roller timing set make the stock 496 block a pretty impressive piece for the dollar. Consider that APBA offshore teams ran these motors for two straight years in the factory classes with nearly no failures. Mercury and GMC both took these motors and in boats ran the 300 hr full throttle tied to the dock tests with no failures leads me to belive that the performance boat and engine community has a nice platform to start with!
Sure they need some better parts to step up the levels, but believe me that when I say we are testing stronger variants you can believe it! Sure the real high horsepower versions need to be purpose built in any engine platform, but the 496 version will hold its own in time with all comers when its equipped with comparable aftermarket parts. My charge is to see that we can do it for considerably less than comparable "blue motors" and I know the Phaffs, Teagues,Petos, Raylars and other quality engine builders will be building very strong reliable versions of the 496's in the near future. Heck we just had to kick start the industry!
The nice thing now is that the "average" performance boater can upgrade his 496MAG or 496HO to a 525HP 600 ft/lb reliable torque "monster" without breaking the bank for the "blue motor" 502. Yes the HP525 is a beautiful part thats proven itself in hundreds of boats. Hell, it should for what they sell for!Yes there are great 500 to 625 HP Gen 6 purpose built motors from the "good builders" that will perform very well in any boat. But for regular performance boaters its nice to have a Merc ECM with "guardian" protecting your investment and providing hours and hours of trouble free start and fly performance. Peace of mind for a reasonable dollar, no wonder the 496 motor in boats out sells all other i/o motors by more than ten to one!
Glad I got that my chest!
Thought I would attach a picture of some of our new "goodies" for that poor 496. How about our new forged stroker crank, pistons and rods. Reliable 650HP 496's with Raylar parts should satisfy just about anybodies "need for speed" Heck, put a 3.3 Whipple on the supercharger version piston and 800+HP at about 7-8 lbs boost should light off just about any water rocket.
As I always say, "nothings impossible, it just costs more!"
Ray @ Raylar :hammerhea
Count me in Ray,I will be pulling my engine at the end of the season and time to strip it down to a bare block.Stroke,Rebuild,Paint to match,polished intake and heads.Set a crank,Rods & pistons aside with my name on them.
By the way Thanks to you and Larry again i am happy to be one of the first to be running the Raylar products and am convinced. Still racking up hrs,and running better than ever! :cool:

mike37
04-15-2005, 05:57 AM
Count me in Ray,I will be pulling my engine at the end of the season and time to strip it down to a bare block.Stroke,Rebuild,Paint to match,polished intake and heads.Set a crank,Rods & pistons aside with my name on them.
By the way Thanks to you and Larry again i am happy to be one of the first to be running the Raylar products and am convinced. Still racking up hrs,and running better than ever! :cool:
hey if I bring my motor up there will you do min at the same time

Bella
04-15-2005, 06:15 AM
Couldn't be that Gary KNOWS how to drive and not hurt Larry's motors. Heck in might even watch his gauges!! :D

PHX ATC
04-15-2005, 07:12 AM
That's all I needed to hear to be scared to death. :jawdrop: :eek: :hammer2: :D
Don't they have "hyper" pistons on the Duramax?
:D
...and I mean hyper as in excitable, not cast/forged/puttied/molded pistons.
Jordy knew what I meant. :)

Beer-30
04-15-2005, 09:10 AM
There are those who want to run hard.
And those who just wanna run.

rvrhlic
04-15-2005, 10:12 AM
Yes, I have been in contact with Aaron several times, we will have a fix by tommorrow.
Thanks,
Ray @ Raylar :wink:
That's great news Ray! Thanks for your help on this.... Can't wait to get out there.

Dave C
04-15-2005, 10:14 AM
That about sums it up right there!.. :devil:
That's all I needed to hear to be scared to death. :jawdrop: :eek: :hammer2: :D
cuz their a bunch of cheap azzes... :rollside:

Dave C
04-15-2005, 11:34 AM
Sorry but if the 496 is so "great" then how come you have so many improved replacment parts for the 496 on your website? and why are they selling so good?
If you put any more parts on your website, I won't have to even get a motor in my next boat. Instead I can build the motor from the parts on your website. ;)
I thought I would throw in my two cents here. I don't presume to know everything about every motor, but there is one motor I am pretty sure I know better than most and thats the 496 or GM8.1 liter GEN 7 motor! I have been sqeeking and tweakin on this motor for about 4 years now including some of the early proto type versions. I can tell you all personally that the 496 in pure stock trim is a far stronger, more efficient, better machined and engineered motor than any previous GM big block, 366,396,402,427,454 and 502 included. These are all great motors in there day but in todays engine world the 496 is better. Sure the original stock version is basically a truck-industrial version that has been pressed into duty as a marine base engine, but its now stock pressure cast crank is stronger than any previous GM forged 1053 type cranks, its full cylinder bore cooling system design, its bigger stronger main caps and bulkheads, its new technology main and rod oiling designs and "alumina bearings coupled with forged rods with coated skirt
lightweight hypereutectic pistons with full float pins,an awesome windage tray and Cloyes double roller timing set make the stock 496 block a pretty impressive piece for the dollar. Consider that APBA offshore teams ran these motors for two straight years in the factory classes with nearly no failures. Mercury and GMC both took these motors and in boats ran the 300 hr full throttle tied to the dock tests with no failures leads me to belive that the performance boat and engine community has a nice platform to start with!
Sure they need some better parts to step up the levels, but believe me that when I say we are testing stronger variants you can believe it! Sure the real high horsepower versions need to be purpose built in any engine platform, but the 496 version will hold its own in time with all comers when its equipped with comparable aftermarket parts. My charge is to see that we can do it for considerably less than comparable "blue motors" and I know the Phaffs, Teagues,Petos, Raylars and other quality engine builders will be building very strong reliable versions of the 496's in the near future. Heck we just had to kick start the industry!
The nice thing now is that the "average" performance boater can upgrade his 496MAG or 496HO to a 525HP 600 ft/lb reliable torque "monster" without breaking the bank for the "blue motor" 502. Yes the HP525 is a beautiful part thats proven itself in hundreds of boats. Hell, it should for what they sell for!Yes there are great 500 to 625 HP Gen 6 purpose built motors from the "good builders" that will perform very well in any boat. But for regular performance boaters its nice to have a Merc ECM with "guardian" protecting your investment and providing hours and hours of trouble free start and fly performance. Peace of mind for a reasonable dollar, no wonder the 496 motor in boats out sells all other i/o motors by more than ten to one!
Glad I got that my chest!
Thought I would attach a picture of some of our new "goodies" for that poor 496. How about our new forged stroker crank, pistons and rods. Reliable 650HP 496's with Raylar parts should satisfy just about anybodies "need for speed" Heck, put a 3.3 Whipple on the supercharger version piston and 800+HP at about 7-8 lbs boost should light off just about any water rocket.
As I always say, "nothings impossible, it just costs more!"
Ray @ Raylar :hammerhea
J/K just messing with you..... I like Ray he seems like a straight shooter. :D

Chris Winn
04-15-2005, 01:16 PM
Who is selling you sea strainers for 700 bucks? They arent your friend. And Im not sure about all the other costs after headers, it's a lil worst case scenario dont you think?
ken,
take a look at what is cost to install anything in a boat (those costs where with rigging and installation) i think you will find that i have found some pretty good pricing.
remember, it is one thing to just buy a motor, then figure in the cost of correct rigging and the nessesary charges to install and tune your combo correctly,
i don't care if someone has a few MPH on me, but i will look good when mine fires up and runs while i am enjoying it during a hard eared weekend
remember, you can pay for it 2 ways, once in the begining and or many times over the long haul.
good luck in your choices :D

INSman
04-15-2005, 04:30 PM
Rex Superstrainers are $499 ea. at full retail..

Sane Asylum
04-15-2005, 08:29 PM
Ken,
Will you buy your boat back?? I had no idea you sold me a "shit box" motor :burningm:
Now comes the service after the sale..... :crossx:

KACHINA KEN
04-15-2005, 08:47 PM
Now comes the service after the sale..... :crossx:
Go ahead, tell him Donny.

Sane Asylum
04-16-2005, 06:38 AM
Go ahead, tell him Donny.
That's wrong.......I was pokin some slight fun at ya and you have to go and get personal.....
Dude.......Dont' even know ya...........Not sure what you mean but I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I've put about 100 hours on the boat since I've had it and haven't had one issue.......Mike's a stand up guy, he disclosed the issues with the top end warranty work that had been done at Boatplex......I also know that Mike takes care of his chit......The twenty people I know that know Mike told me they'd buy anything from the guy......Matter of fact, I remember talking to Donnie one afternoon at Humbug and he told me that Mike takes better care of his chit than anybody he knows.....
My family and I enjoy our boat......... But, if it makes you feel better.........Step up and you tell me......... :devil: