An 800.00 impellor & oil change on twin 500's

[carbonmarine]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Here w/ invoice stated:
24 Castrol $3.89 ea
2 HP4 Filters $24.10 ea.
2 Water Seperators $10.99 ea.
2 impellor with Body $97.00 ea.
2 Waste fee $10.00 ea.
2 air & lube $3.00 ea.
5 Hours labor $80.00 hr. ea.
Tax 7.85% = $28.54
TOTAL 812.08
*Notes: Changed oil & filters on both engines. Did not change drive oil per customers request and R&R implellors, back flushed cooling system, washed bilge..

[JetBoatRich]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Was a reach around included :jawdrop:

[Bre]

:jawdrop: I think so :jawdrop:

[cdog]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Are you joking? If you paid that you were more than abused. Impeller kits a 65 bucks.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

Dam who did the work

[RiverToysJas]

Impeller kits a 65 bucks.
The way I read it, he got two of them for $97. How is that abuse?

[superdave013]

Well it took them 5 hours to do the job. I bet it would have taken you longer.
As far as parts mark up goes they don't look to bad to me. I mean I can buy spark plugs for next to nothing but a tune up guy will get over 5 bucks a pop.
I guess it comes down to the if ya want to save money you have to spend the time / hassle. If you want to save time / hassle then you have to spend the money.

[RiverToysJas]

The 5hours labor is where he took it in the keester for sure. But he did have two motors done - 2.5 hours perstill seem high. No drive service or spark plug either. They make big deals about having to take out back seats to change water impellers. I know back seat comes out in about a minute using a power screwdriver. He might of had other things in the way that slowed the process. Hard to say.
RTJas :D

[Speedin' Ian]

It's definately more than what my guy charges, but if you have the money and you feel comfortable with the shop than who cares. To give you an idea my guy charged about 400.00 to service the drive, change fuel seperator, rebuild water pump etc... Keep in mind mine is a single.

[boatnam2]

sounds right to me most places charge about 6 bills to do a blue motor and you have 2.i think quality charges 650 for a single.

[boatnam2]

i tryed throwing out a little spam to help people save a couple of hundred bucks and still have there service and detail done by a guy that knows what he is doing but no takers.oh well you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

[Beer-30]

The way I read it, he got two of them for $97. How is that abuse?
No, it says 2 at $97 ea.

[Havasu47]

A service should have included the drive. But how many of you could have done that job in 5 hours? Sorry, but seats dont come out in a minute. Some are easy and some take quite a while if they must come out. Were the sea water pumps down next to the stringer? Did the hoses come off or did they have to fight them? Were the clamps accessible? Did they have to move the seat and the seat base and all the equipment inside just to get to the water pumps?
My point is you are judging some one without all the facts.
The prices are a little high on the oil and the filters.
Retail on the one piece water pump kit is $96.90. (impeller and one piece body assy)
I dont know who did the work but if he is an Authorized Merc Dealership $80.00 / hour is low.
If this was done in Ca. the Gov. always has their hand out. :cry:

[TPI]

The ansewr to your question is............YES! The biggest mark up I see is the HP4's. He charged you over double for those. The oil is pretty steep too. If you run your business of percentages, the two big hitters are the two I listed. He only charged 40% for the impellors...............

[BADBLOWN572]

Actually it sounds very fair to me. I can tell you from personal experience, changing the impellers on a twin engine boat is a biatch! You have to be a contortionist (?sp) to get down in there and pull the impeller out. Everything else seems to be about right. The guy did make some money on the parts, but big deal. Everyone is in business to make money. If you were worried about being the cheapest, get your hands dirty and do it yourself.

[RiverToysJas]

No, it says 2 at $97 ea.
Sorry you're right, but that's the whole body kit. I thought that was about what they go for. I've never bought the whole body though.
RTJas :D

[Big Warlock]

Everything looks ok but the five hours. Sorry, I think it could have been done in three. Just my opinion.

[superdave013]

If you were worried about being the cheapest, get your hands dirty and do it yourself.
C'Mon Danny, He's a Newport Beach high roller running a Sunsation with twins as a toy. If he spent that much time doing that it would prolly cost him a half a million on some big deal he'd miss out on. :eek:

[dicudmore]

Everything looks ok but the five hours. Sorry, I think it could have been done in three. Just my opinion.
probably but if it took 3, then to charge 5 is about right ;)

[surfer2001]

Personally, I would never pay for an oil change. But if I did I’d supply all the parts. 496HO holds 10~11 quarts so a shop can hose you on that alone. I change my oil & filters myself every thirty hours. I also keep all the recites for the oil and filters (just in case). I’d pay to have the impeller changed simply to make sure the warrantee was not compromised. $800 ouch !!
Note: you can get a pump from west marine that sucks the oil out of the dip stick tube for about $80.00 (if memory serves).

[Beer-30]

I do as much as I can myself. It's just nice cruising along knowing that I tightened the filter just right, tightened all the plugs just right, and put in the exact oils I like.
Plus, in your case, you could just buy a case of HP4s and save a ton. Have someone show you the do's and don'ts of a service and leave the impellers and teardowns to the pros.

[surfer2001]

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=10677
$42 bucks new

[Havasu Hangin']

Hey guys...there are some cool new water pumps out there that:
1. Retrofit on the Merc stuff
2. RUN DRY is ok (bulletproof impeller)
3. If you do have to replace the impellor, you don't have to replace the whole housing like a Merc
They are around $200, so they pay for themselves after a couple Merc impeller changes.

[Ducatista]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Here w/ invoice stated:
24 Castrol $3.89 ea
2 HP4 Filters $24.10 ea.
2 Water Seperators $10.99 ea.
2 impellor with Body $97.00 ea.
2 Waste fee $10.00 ea.
2 air & lube $3.00 ea.
5 Hours labor $80.00 hr. ea.
Tax 7.85% = $28.54
TOTAL 812.08
*Notes: Changed oil & filters on both engines. Did not change drive oil per customers request and R&R implellors, back flushed cooling system, washed bilge..
You must have gone to ALCO......lol
You paid about twice as much for the oil, filters, and parts than you would have over the counter, but that is a typical markup from most places. The 2.5 hours per motor sounds about right to me for an oil change,water seperator and impellor kit change, cooling flush etc. 80 bucks an hour is on the high end on labor charges IMO, but typical. Looks like your typical ream job to me...400 bucks an engine and not even a drive service....ouch, get the lube! Having someone else service the boat is expensive, and you get double you're pleasure.

[Essex502]

Seems like it's priced accordingly. I just paid $135/hr for labor on a BMW so $80 sounds pretty cheap.

[Ducatista]

Hey guys...there are some cool water pumps out there that:
1. Retrofit on the Merc stuff
2. RUN DRY is ok (bulletproof impeller)
3. If you do have to replace the impellor, you don't have to replace the whole housing like a Merc
They are around $200, so they pay for themselves after a couple Merc impeller changes.
Do you have a link to these magical impellers??? I am interested since mine last 6-10 months at best in Havasu.

[Havasu Hangin']

Do you have a link to these magical impellers??? I am interested since mine last 6-10 months at best in Havasu.
The pumps are called KPM- they bolt onto the back of the Merc pulley housing (like a stock Merc), but you need to drill one more hole.
I think it is a composite housing- very cool stuff.

[phebus]

If that is for the annual service for two motors, I think that is more than fair. I haven't heard of anybody getting the annual service done on a single at a shop for much less than $500.- And if it is a quality shop that is known for good work and not some corner garage, I say you did pretty good!!
Those people that are doing their own service don't know what their saving. Go out and price shop service some day.

[HM]

Rick....are you trying to break the circle of trust? LOL
Take it easy on the old guy! He may just be trying to recover the cost of the mexican lunches you guys take.
And you thought it took forever to get your stuff done before!

[cdog]

On the 500 efi engines the sea pumps are up alot higher than the 496's. They've go to be alot easyier to get to. What can I say, not everyone has the skill that I have so if it takes 800 bucks to do the job right then that is money well spent for you, considering what you have at risk by making mistakes.
I wish I could post the pic of me pullin my engine out of my 29 with a tow truck boom. Cost me 60 bucks and a hour of my time instead of 1000 bucks shop rate.

[superdave013]

Rick....are you trying to break the circle of trust? LOL
Take it easy on the old guy! He may just be trying to recover the cost of the mexican lunches you guys take.
And you thought it took forever to get your stuff done before!
lol, you just gave away the shop.

[HM]

lol, you just gave away the shop.
LOL....I highly doubt it was done by the usual suspect. I really couldn't see Rick risking his life over 800 bones. Just giving the pot a little agitation. :)

[surfer2001]

If that is for the annual service for two motors, I think that is more than fair. I haven't heard of anybody getting the annual service done on a single at a shop for much less than $500.- And if it is a quality shop that is known for good work and not some corner garage, I say you did pretty good!!
Those people that are doing their own service don't know what their saving. Go out and price shop service some day.
By the description it was not an annual service. No drive oil change or drive alignment. IMO the drive alignment is the critical item in the annual service. His shop simply changed his oils, filters and impellers.

[Stealth Marine]

The pumps are called KPM- they bolt onto the back of the Merc pulley housing (like a stock Merc), but you need to drill one more hole.
I think it is a composite housing- very cool stuff.
I would love to know more about this.
Do you have any better details that I could search on.
The only thing I was able to find was the KPM Super Sleave by Magna Drive,
http://www.supersleeve.com/index.html
But I don't think thats what your referring to???

[Stealth Marine]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Here w/ invoice stated:
24 Castrol $3.89 ea
2 HP4 Filters $24.10 ea.
2 Water Seperators $10.99 ea.
2 impellor with Body $97.00 ea.
2 Waste fee $10.00 ea.
2 air & lube $3.00 ea.
5 Hours labor $80.00 hr. ea.
Tax 7.85% = $28.54
TOTAL 812.08
*Notes: Changed oil & filters on both engines. Did not change drive oil per customers request and R&R implellors, back flushed cooling system, washed bilge..
I can appreciate your sticker shock on this, but I am not at all certain that it is really all that far out of line.
First question.
Did they have to remove ANY of the interior furniture from the boat to get access to the water pump on the engine. If the backseat in the boat has to come out, and all the speaker wires have to be cut and then re-connected, the total labor on the impellor change can explode.
Around here, as a rule, we charge $159 for the oil change (engine and drive) and an alignment if needed, and $199 to change out the impellor. So your looking at $358 per engine as the base price, assuming we do NOT run into any problems in getting access to the engine.

[carbonmarine]

Hey, Let me get one thing straight here; two actually.
I wont divulge the shop, or its location, nor am I complaining...I just asked
a simple question as I dont wrench myself for fear of failure and two, I drive a desk.... so I figured to to just inquire what this community thought....
That's all.
Rick :chi:

[HM]

Hey, Let me get one thing straight here; two actually.
I wont divulge the shop, or its location, nor am I complaining...I just asked
a simple question as I dont wrench myself for fear of failure and two, I drive a desk.... so I figured to to just inquire what this community thought....
That's all.
Rick :chi:
There are no simple questions on Hot Boat! I think a phone call to some other shops may have been the more candid approach. The good side is that my stuff will now get done before yours. LOL :coffeycup :D

[carbonmarine]

why is that ? :notam:

[cdog]

Talk about beatin a dead horse.

[WILDERTHANU]

and two, I drive a desk....
That's all.
Rick :chi:
LMAO!! HOW DO YOU DO THAT???

[HM]

For those that inferred what I implied can be rest assured it is not. I too, do not want to break the circle of trust. :D :D

[Holland]

Did I get sexually abused ??? :idea:
Here w/ invoice stated:
24 Castrol $3.89 ea
2 HP4 Filters $24.10 ea.
2 Water Seperators $10.99 ea.
2 impellor with Body $97.00 ea.
2 Waste fee $10.00 ea.
2 air & lube $3.00 ea.
5 Hours labor $80.00 hr. ea.
Tax 7.85% = $28.54
TOTAL 812.08
*Notes: Changed oil & filters on both engines. Did not change drive oil per customers request and R&R implellors, back flushed cooling system, washed bilge..
You did not list 1. Company Insurance 2. Liability for work performed 3. Warranty exposure 3. Company space rent 4. workers' comp 5. Employee Bene's 6. utilities.... blah blah blah
Being in business aint cheap!

[Ducatista]

I can appreciate your sticker shock on this, but I am not at all certain that it is really all that far out of line.
First question.
Did they have to remove ANY of the interior furniture from the boat to get access to the water pump on the engine. If the backseat in the boat has to come out, and all the speaker wires have to be cut and then re-connected, the total labor on the impellor change can explode.
Around here, as a rule, we charge $159 for the oil change (engine and drive) and an alignment if needed, and $199 to change out the impellor. So your looking at $358 per engine as the base price, assuming we do NOT run into any problems in getting access to the engine.
$358 per engine which includes the drive service and alignment check sounds more fair to me...Chris if alignment is needed can that tack on charges?
I hope #1 isn't refering to my boat!...lol Hell I could buy a new boat for what it would cost to cut all those wires and bust that seat out! Mike needs to learn the ancient technique of replacing the impellor/housing while laying on the top of the motor.

[surfer2001]

Hey guys...there are some cool new water pumps out there that:
1. Retrofit on the Merc stuff
2. RUN DRY is ok (bulletproof impeller)
3. If you do have to replace the impellor, you don't have to replace the whole housing like a Merc
They are around $200, so they pay for themselves after a couple Merc impeller changes.
is this the pump?
http://www.trickmarine.net/productdetail.cfm?productid=470

[Chase]

THis is like complaining about the price of gas.....
If you ccan afford the price of the boat like we are talking about here....don't bitch about the cost to run the damn thing.....

[Chase]

Woops...did I say that outloud??

[Havasu Hangin']

is this the pump?
http://www.trickmarine.net/productdetail.cfm?productid=470
No, but close. KPM also makes some cool two and three stage billet pumps that can run up to $1,000+ or so. The benefit to a multi-stage pump is that you can run several pickups and systems (like intercoolers, gearbox, oil coolers, etc.) independent of each other.
The piece I'm talking about is a housing that replaces the Merc impeller and housing.
http://www.trickmarine.net/productdetail.cfm?productid=369
http://www.trickmarine.net/images/productimages/1arebuildkita1.jpg
I think GT sells them for $220...

[surfer2001]

No, but close. KPM also makes some cool two and three stage billet pumps that can run up to $1,000+ or so. The benefit to a multi-stage pump is that you can run several pickups and systems (like intercoolers, gearbox, oil coolers, etc.) independent of each other.
The piece I'm talking about is a housing that replaces the Merc impeller and housing.
http://www.trickmarine.net/productdetail.cfm?productid=369
http://www.trickmarine.net/images/productimages/1arebuildkita1.jpg
I think GT sells them for $220...
GT ??? how about a link (PLEASE)

[Havasu Hangin']

GT ??? how about a link (PLEASE)
I don't think he sells online:
www.gtmarine.com
Fred is right- you'll probably need to buy a couple fittings, too ($20 or so). The reason is that some of the Merc pumps came with straight fittings, and some came with angled to clear the motor mounts.
Tell him the guy with the Cig sent you. Wait...strike that...he may charge you more. :notam:

[Stealth Marine]

$358 per engine which includes the drive service and alignment check sounds more fair to me...Chris if alignment is needed can that tack on charges?
I hope #1 isn't refering to my boat!...lol Hell I could buy a new boat for what it would cost to cut all those wires and bust that seat out! Mike needs to learn the ancient technique of replacing the impellor/housing while laying on the top of the motor.
Around here I will just do the alignment if someone needs it.
The charges only mount IF we find something wrong with the outdrive during the alignment itself.
I kid you not, we have had boats come in here that take the better part of a FULL DAY to remove the rear seat and gain full access to the front of the engine. There are some boats out there that were NEVER built to be serviced!

[dicudmore]

Around here I will just do the alignment if someone needs it.
The charges only mount IF we find something wrong with the outdrive during the alignment itself.
I kid you not, we have had boats come in here that take the better part of a FULL DAY to remove the rear seat and gain full access to the front of the engine. There are some boats out there that were NEVER built to be serviced!
I hope those weren't built by family members :wink:

[Stealth Marine]

No, but close. KPM also makes some cool two and three stage billet pumps that can run up to $1,000+ or so. The benefit to a multi-stage pump is that you can run several pickups and systems (like intercoolers, gearbox, oil coolers, etc.) independent of each other.
The piece I'm talking about is a housing that replaces the Merc impeller and housing....
If this thing REALLY works as advertised I could sell a load of them and save a lot of customer headaches!
The Merc pumps are GARBAGE and in my oppinion are built to fail.!!
Proof you ask?
When a brand new crate motor arrives from Merc, and we install it and fire it for the first time and the impellor FAILS, it is NOT WARRENTIED by Mercury!
Absolutely amazing...

[rivercrazy]

I spoke with the dude over at Trick Marine regarding the KPM pump assembly. Sounds very well engineered and much tougher than the Merc units. He said it has been tested for 24 hours of "dry" run time and still works like a charm. The assembly is machined from billett aluminium and then hard annodized to protect it from salt water corrosion.
Unfortunately, they do not have one available yet for the 496's. However, they are a few months away from introducing them for the 496's. Apparently they are working closely with Raylar on this.
They do have them for 454's 502's, and some of the higher performance merc packages......

[LHC30Victory]

I spoke with the dude over at Trick Marine regarding the KPM pump assembly. Sounds very well engineered and much tougher than the Merc units. He said it has been tested for 24 hours of "dry" run time and still works like a charm. The assembly is machined from billett aluminium and then hard annodized to protect it from salt water corrosion.
Unfortunately, they do not have one available yet for the 496's. However, they are a few months away from introducing them for the 496's. Apparently they are working closely with Raylar on this.
They do have them for 454's 502's, and some of the higher performance merc packages......
YEAH DUDE! let me know when the models for the 496 ho' s come out. I will be ordering two :smile:

[Havasu Hangin']

I ran mine today. All I gotta say is these things are BADASS...they pump alot more than my old Mercs at idle...

[dirty old man]

I think you got a bargin. In LV or Boulder City it would run a little more, in LA a lot more. Labor hours are getting real close to $100 an hour at many shops. I would certainly want to go where there are Merc schooled mechanics. Not too many around as far as I know

[surfer2001]

I ran mine today. All I gotta say is these things are BADASS...they pump alot more than my old Mercs at idle...
Did your eng temp change?

[Havasu Hangin']

Did your eng temp change?
No, I have crossovers, so the temps don't even register on the gauge at idle. However, running them on the trailer with my flush kit, you can see that they pump more water than the Mercs did the week before (and the Merc impellers were still good).