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View Full Version : Whipple on 496HO?



laveydayz
07-21-2005, 09:45 AM
I know Whipple has had some del. problems, but has anyone had any success with this combo on the 496HO? I have heard that Whipple is the only set up that works well, as they are one of the only people who are able to reprogram the stock Merc. ECU?

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 09:50 AM
I thought so too, after reading INSMAN'S Raylar build up. A few other people have told me otherwise so, im trying the boards for some real feedback.

dicudmore
07-21-2005, 09:51 AM
a true boater... already looking to go faster :D
Phat Matt has a friend w/a Commander cat running a whippled HO

Havasu_Dreamin
07-21-2005, 09:57 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, which I may be since I don't have a 496 HO, the Raylar kit does not reprogram the ECU. That's one of the selling points.

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 09:59 AM
a true boater... already looking to go faster :D
Phat Matt has a friend w/a Commander cat running a whippled HO
Absolutly.....The Raylar thing sounds good but would rather stay out of the motor. Pro Charger has some big MPH gain claims but, have heard some horror stories of alot of heat and detenation probs.

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 10:01 AM
what kind of MPH are you getting in your 29'?

desertbird
07-21-2005, 10:04 AM
I do not know first hand on the 496 yet (but I plan too!) My experience with whipple and other screw type compressors has been very positive. :)
No Raylar does not re-program, uses stock curves for same power (Neat, huh!) :eek:
I think this: If a centrifugal compressor was really the best power option, then TEAGUE and PFAFF and hell, Mercury Blue motors would have them installed, not the screw/scroll types! :cool:
My .02

dicudmore
07-21-2005, 10:12 AM
what kind of MPH are you getting in your 29'?
not as much as your NuEra that's for sure :cry:
I've seen as high as 69 (yes GPS) in the ocean, in the winter...
Lost a little this spring when I put the mufflers on. 250 RPM or so
Now in the Havasu heat low 60's

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 10:24 AM
not as much as your NuEra that's for sure :cry:
I've seen as high as 69 (yes GPS) in the ocean, in the winter...
Lost a little this spring when I put the mufflers on. 250 RPM or so
Now in the Havasu heat low 60's
Thats very respectable for a 29'. I do not have any blue water experience but, is it true that in the saltwater you have more bouyancy?? We have seen low 70's mph in perfect water cond. By the way what mufflers did you go with?

dicudmore
07-21-2005, 10:39 AM
Thats very respectable for a 29'. I do not have any blue water experience but, is it true that in the saltwater you have more bouyancy?? We have seen low 70's mph in perfect water cond. By the way what mufflers did you go with?
yes to the salt water bouyancy thing. Its prob worth around 2 mph.
I have the REX silencers

prosthogod
07-21-2005, 10:40 AM
496ho+whipple=kablaaaammm!! , I thoght about it, then I thought about procharger, then I decided on Larry Peto 548EFI. Once you buy a supercharger and blow your motor up you've spent more than a new one.

HCS
07-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Whipple is going out of business. :notam:

Dave C
07-21-2005, 10:43 AM
There is no room for that type of logic here sir!!! ;)
I think this: If a centrifugal compressor was really the best power option, then TEAGUE and PFAFF and hell, Mercury Blue motors would have them installed, not the screw/scroll types! :cool:
My .02

1Shockwaveguy
07-21-2005, 10:48 AM
There was a shockwave tremor in Havi all the time that ran this set up and it hauled ass. The boat name was BuckShot. It has since been ripped off but I know his set up lasted over 100 hours with no problems. Talk to shockwavebd, I believe they did the install at the factory

dicudmore
07-21-2005, 10:51 AM
496ho+whipple=kablaaaammm!! , I thoght about it, then I thought about procharger, then I decided on Larry Peto 548EFI. Once you buy a supercharger and blow your motor up you've spent more than a new one.
IMO I think it has a lot to do with the right wrist of the guy driving the boat. I know of guys scattering engines (496's included) in a couple of weekends, but there are also Whipple and Pro-Charged HO's out there with several seasons of use on them...

THOR
07-21-2005, 11:00 AM
496ho+whipple=kablaaaammm!! , I thoght about it, then I thought about procharger, then I decided on Larry Peto 548EFI. Once you buy a supercharger and blow your motor up you've spent more than a new one.
How much for the Peto 548EFI?

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 11:01 AM
496ho+whipple=kablaaaammm!! , I thoght about it, then I thought about procharger, then I decided on Larry Peto 548EFI. Once you buy a supercharger and blow your motor up you've spent more than a new one.
Well if the ecu is programed properly, with minimal boost, and sufficient fuel delv. there should be no detenation, which would result in "kablaaaammm! That would definetly be a big expense to grenade the 496!! I have had alot of experience with centrifical superchargers on cars and I know for every 5psi of boost you roughly raise the compression by 1 point. Not familiar with the Merc. motors, and I do not know what internals they use ie: pistons etc. The hyperut. pistons used in most latemodel cars do not like boost at all. The Larry Peto motor sound pretty sweet!!

laveydayz
07-21-2005, 11:05 AM
not as much as your NuEra that's for sure :cry:
I've seen as high as 69 (yes GPS) in the ocean, in the winter...
Lost a little this spring when I put the mufflers on. 250 RPM or so
Now in the Havasu heat low 60's How quite are the Rex mufflers?
We have the Gibson's and they work well but damn they are almost too quite!!

Phat Matt
07-21-2005, 03:46 PM
a true boater... already looking to go faster :D
Phat Matt has a friend w/a Commander cat running a whippled HO
I just got off the phone with him. I was waiting for some info before I posted. After the long 4th of July weekend the last day on the water he was having some problems. It started running like it was bogged down. He had it hooked up to a computer and it showed nothing wrong. Savage just picked it up yesterday from my pad and they said one of the cylinders is gone. It blew. They felt it would be better to just swap engines with a new HO than dig into it and see how bad it is. I am pretty sure the engine whether or not it is this one is going back to stock. So if you are interested in buying a whipple for a 496, I can probably get you one for a good price. :)
Break
Out
Another
Thousand
:jawdrop:

dicudmore
07-21-2005, 03:55 PM
How quite are the Rex mufflers?
We have the Gibson's and they work well but damn they are almost too quite!!
81 DB at the marina test...
The ticket was for 93 last year...
sounds like a damn sewing machine

Dave C
07-21-2005, 04:03 PM
Just a side note on the 496 cuz I did some research.
It is built with crappy internals, weak pistons and the combustion chamber creates a small lip over the bore. Detonation could be caused by the lip with the stock heads, regardless of what is done with the mapping.
If you run lower boost and good gas you can get away with a blower on a 496.
If you want to get aggressive, I would change the heads, pistons, rings and rods to make it last.

Raylar
07-22-2005, 07:11 AM
No doubting that Whipple and Pro-chargers make excellent superchargers and when put on stock 496's they make between 550 and 625HP when you reduce (by about 50-75HP) the total horsepower the superchargers use to run their compressors. The problems are not with the superchargers, but with the stock block components. The cylinder head design and material (iron) can lead to dangerous detonation with todays fuels and the boat prop loads. Couple this with cast hypereutectic pistons with a thin top section in the piston over the top ring land, especially on the side by the intake valve relief in the piston and you have the reason that less than 30% of 496 stock block supercharged motors ever see more than 100 engine hours before disaster strikes, you have a pretty good reason to seriously consider supercharging a stock block before you start! Upgrade the 496 motor with forged internals and forged pistons and good cylinder heads and you have a motor that can easily handle boost in the 9lb. plus range where the 496 can make 750 to 800HP with fairly decent blower engine life, lets say 250hrs before freshening. Pretty great bang for the buck here when you consider our supercharge based forged short block "Signature" short blocks go for about 6-8K depending on buildout. Couple that with one of our supercharger top kits, a 6K supercharger setup and your at somewhere between 18k and 20K for a 750-800HP 496 blower motor! This is a lot better than a Merc 600SC at about 40K. You've still got guardian with the Merc ECM, closed cooling and an all electronically controlled motor. Whipple does have programming for this setup and Pro-Chargers system can be used with our "e-box" reprogrammer to keep the motor running right.
As a great alternative for the guys that want more than the 525HP of our BCK103 kit on a stock 496 block, our new HO600 EFI version of the 496 uses a forged internals short block with our BCK106 kit and our "e-box" reprogrammer for the ECM that gives you 600HP-650ft/lbs of EFI normally aspirated engine that idles at 650 rpms, uses 87 octane fuel and still keeps the full Mercury "guardian" features of the stock ECM and will give engine life in the 500 to 750 hour range. At about a 15K exchange cost with headers this really represents an awesome value when compared to some other 600HP alternatives. These HO600 engines are already in use in several boats and are wowing their owners! As you can now see, you have some great options for your 496 engine, just be careful that you do your buildups right with the right components and you will only need to spend your dollars once and eliminate the grief and downtime of a "short sided" buildup approach.
Just some info and "food for thought" :idea:
Ray @ Raylar

desertbird
07-22-2005, 07:28 AM
That Raylar guy is a Smart Cookie!
Do the blower motors really only last about 30% of the time?

laveydayz
07-22-2005, 07:36 AM
Thanks Raylar....I had my doubts on the 496's internals. Your naturally asperated 600 kit sounds very reasonable, considering the other options. As far as the exchange, do you just swap out long blocks and re use the EFI etc? Or is it a complete swap over? The engine hour life is definetly a huge plus as we put alot of hours on each season. Do you have a website with the specs and info on your kits?

dicudmore
07-22-2005, 07:39 AM
Thanks Raylar....I had my doubts on the 496's internals. Your naturally asperated 600 kit sounds very reasonable, considering the other options. As far as the exchange, do you just swap out long blocks and re use the EFI etc? Or is it a complete swap over? The engine hour life is definetly a huge plus as we put alot of hours on each season. Do you have a website with the specs and info on your kits?
RAYLAR (http://www.raylarengine.com/)

jailbird141
07-22-2005, 10:34 AM
Does anyone know how long a stock 496HO will last before it needs to be "freshened up" :notam:

prosthogod
07-22-2005, 10:50 AM
The Larry Peto 548efi is~25-26k with CMIs. That's ~625-640hp. A blue motor with that hp is ~30+. It's a tough call. Put a raylar kit on and you've spent 20+for 600hp and it is still a 496.

laveydayz
07-22-2005, 02:14 PM
The Larry Peto 548efi is~25-26k with CMIs. That's ~625-640hp. A blue motor with that hp is ~30+. It's a tough call. Put a raylar kit on and you've spent 20+for 600hp and it is still a 496. Raylar is claiming 15k with headers for 600hp?? 496 or 548, 600+hp is 600hp!!
Im waiting to hear "INSMAN'S" results, and see what he comes up with.

Raylar
07-22-2005, 08:08 PM
:D Laveydayz:
Our new HO600 package is a complete blueprinted shortblock equipped with all forged internals and comes with our complete top end BCK106 kit which gives you a complete motor that accepts all your wiring, ECM, raw water and closed cooling systems using your alternator, powersteering pump, pulleys, EFI fuel system and accessories. The HO600 needs good headers, a bigger oil cooler, a larger fuel pump and fuel filter and comes with our 1000cfm throttle body. Your old shortblock is the only thing we exchange for and we need from your old motor. The old heads, intake manifold and cam are yours for the duration. Our website is www.raylarengine.com and you can call us M-F 8 to 6 pm toll free @ (866) 496-8181 to discuss a specific quote or just to answer questions.
Thanks for the inquiry!
Ray @ Raylar