Twin turbo or blower?

[PalapaHead]

I've got a 496 naturally aspirated built motor. Im wondering what would be the better choice, a twim turbo system or a blower/ supercharger setup. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Jordy]

Personally, I'd go with the twin turbo setup, but that's just me. :D :D

[Garrddogg]

Personally, I'd go with the twin turbo setup, but that's just me. :D :D
UH OH, there I go agreeing with Jordy again :2purples:

[dimarcobros]

If you have to deal with noise issues I think the turbo is the way to go.
DMB

[Jbb]

Turbo injection setup...If you can afford it.....basically free power...hp drag wise.....and no noise headaches...I agree with Jordy.....and RD SUX..... :D

[Jordy]

and RD SUX..... :D
True. But I thought everyone knew that so I left it out. My bad. :D :D :D

[Jbb]

True. But I thought everyone knew that so I left it out. My bad. :D :D :D
There are alot of new people here ....pay attention!

[PalapaHead]

I forgot to ask about how to deal with the exhaust. Is there custom fabrication involved for the wastegate, etc... for marine applications?

[HM]

Whipple quad rotor with injection - just a step up on coolness and a huge step up in lower RPM Torque. But if want to be a girly man on torque, go the twin turbo set up. ;) :D
BTW - I have a Quad Rotor for EFI for sale...which has given me no bias. :D

[Jbb]

Froggystyle is building one as we speak....and Im thinkin he likes the results ...do a searck on Trident boats ...he speaks all about it ...with pictures

[HM]

Froggystyle is building one as we speak....and Im thinkin he likes the results ...do a searck on Trident boats ...he speaks all about it ...with pictures
Yes, but his original plan was to go Quad Rotor until he had a "disagreement" with Dustin at Whipple. Besides, a jet can get away with lower torque in the lower RPM range since jets don't know what low RPM means anyways. ;)

[Jordy]

Besides, a jet can get away with lower torque in the lower RPM range since jets don't know what low RPM means anyways. ;)
There are quite a few big boats getting away from the blowers and going to the turbos. That "Gone Again" boat that was at the poker run in Havasu in April had a pair of twin turboed large displacement engines coupled to a pair of #6's and it got across the water just fine and was quiet at idle to boot. :) :D

[Jbb]

There are quite a few big boats getting away from the blowers and going to the turbos. That "Gone Again" boat that was at the poker run in Havasu in April had a pair of twin turboed large displacement engines coupled to a pair of #6's and it got across the water just fine and was quiet at idle to boot. :) :D
Trust me ...there are some major players in the power market heading that way now......stay tuned... ;)

[HM]

There are quite a few big boats getting away from the blowers and going to the turbos. That "Gone Again" boat that was at the poker run in Havasu in April had a pair of twin turboed large displacement engines coupled to a pair of #6's and it got across the water just fine and was quiet at idle to boot. :) :D
READ MY LIPS:
GIRLY MAN!
LOL.. :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:

[PalapaHead]

Whats this I read about noise? Are turbo's louder than a motor w/ out them?

[Krumbsnatcher]

I've got a 496 naturally aspirated built motor (585hp). Im wondering what would be the better choice, a twim turbo system or a blower/ supercharger setup. Ive got a 26ft American Offshore cat. Any advice would be appreciated.
Is it an HO? If your motor is naturally aspirated you are going to have compression and heat issues. What compression are you running?

[Jordy]

Whats this I read about noise? Are turbo's louder than a motor w/ out them?
Turbos are quieter than a blown engine as the turbo acts somewhat like a muffler. ;)

[HM]

Whats this I read about noise? Are turbo's louder than a motor w/ out them?
Just the opposite...much quieter. With the new noise restrictions, nice to know your performance part actually quiets the motor instead of having to add HP robbing baffles/mufflers.

[PalapaHead]

Its been dyno'd at 585hp, w. 10:1 compression. Will that work? HolyMoly - please be esplanin what you mean by girly man? Is a turbo for chicks?

[Beer-30]

Its been dyno'd at 585hp, w. 10:1 compression. Will that work? HolyMoly - please be esplanin what you mean by girly man? Is a turbo for chicks?
Um NO! Don't go pressuring a 10:1 motor! Unless it is only about a pound or two of boost. About 8:1 is middle-high end of boosted compression. 6.5-7.5:1 is the usual. I have seen 9, but you are talking serious pistons and serious fuel.

[Freak]

No no turbos get chicks.

[PalapaHead]

Um NO! Don't go pressuring a 10:1 motor! Unless it is only about a pound or two of boost. About 8:1 is middle-high end of boosted compression. 6.5-7.5:1 is the usual. I have seen 9, but you are talking serious pistons and serious fuel.
Ahhhh - so looks like a ProCharger would be more ideal?

[superdave013]

I forgot to ask about how to deal with the exhaust. Is there custom fabrication involved for the wastegate, etc... for marine applications?
On the Brummitt systems the wastegates are intgrated into the water jacketed exhaust housings. Nice set up but was out of my budget. So mine was all custom fab work.
And what ever way you go, blown or turbo you will need to knock down the compression and do a cam change.

[Krumbsnatcher]

Its been dyno'd at 585hp, w. 10:1 compression. Will that work? HolyMoly - please be esplanin what you mean by girly man? Is a turbo for chicks?
A blown motor creates a lot of heat and its volumetric efficeincy is around 110-115%, thus the reason for less compression pistons. This is also the reason you can run a higher lift cam due to the air efficiency is immediate as compared to your NA motor.
I would stay away from either setup unless you plan on building the bottom end, beefing up your valve train and cam. You could get away with 1 to 3 lbs of boost but you would definitely start detonation on a run across the lake.
I know i tried to run a 9:1 compression on 3lbs of boost and constantly tulip a valve in #8 and #6.
just .02

[Beer-30]

Ahhhh - so looks like a ProCharger would be more ideal?
No no. Turbo or SC, either one is the same as far as the motor goes. A blower motor is also a turbo motor. The pistons and bottom end don't know where the boost comes from. You would want to reduce your static compression, either way.
Other than that, I agree that twin-turbo is the way to go. So much more efficient. They just ride-along and don't waste any HP, until needed, then they add HP. A blower is constantly needing HP to turn it. Plus, if it goes, you usually can't get the boat home. If a seal lets go in the turbo "cartridge" or even if it seizes, you can still drive the boat to the dock. Also, if set up right, they hit like a sledge hammer. A little hard on drives, but a blast all the same. :D

[superdave013]

Ahhhh - so looks like a ProCharger would be more ideal?
no way, forced induction is forced induction. If you want your boat to live one lap around the lake you need to knock down the compression. Or maybe run it on Alki would do the trick. lol

[PalapaHead]

Weeellllllll, looks like neither is a good idea with my motor the way it is now. Odd though, the dude I bought it from said he was planning to slap a procharger on it. Thats why he had it rebuilt with the components and specs it has now. But from what I've gotten today, high compression is not the way to go with forced induction.

[Froggystyle]

Whipple quad rotor with injection - just a step up on coolness and a huge step up in lower RPM Torque. But if want to be a girly man on torque, go the twin turbo set up. ;) :D
BTW - I have a Quad Rotor for EFI for sale...which has given me no bias. :D
Someone has not been paying attention... we had 730 foot pounds at 3000 RPM. It doesn't get bigger lower than twin turbos. This thing would rip any prop off the transom at 3000....

[Beer-30]

:D Someone has not been paying attention... we had 730 foot pounds at 3000 RPM. It doesn't get bigger lower than twin turbos. This thing would rip any prop off the transom at 3000....

[ROZ]

READ MY LIPS:
GIRLY MAN!
LOL.. :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:
Who was it that got bitchslapped by a woman at a gas station? ;) :D

[PalapaHead]

Who was it that got bitchslapped by a woman at a gas station? ;) :D
The truth comes out. I sensed a lil bitterness w/ that comment. Hope not too many peeps witnessed that beeeeeeitchslap. LOL!!!!

[burtandnancy]

Huffpower is closing in on it. You are looking a big bucks, new pistons, cam, inner cooler, exhaust, much, much more. Then you have to look at your power train, can it take a big increase in HP. This is the time to look at a whole new boat, built from the ground up for the purpose you have in mind...

[PalapaHead]

No kiddin... Ive got a Stern Power BX Series drive, that I can strap upto 1000hp to. So, I think Im good in that area. I can sqeeze about 70-75mph out of it in 110 degree weather. I was just looking to bump it up to around a hundy in the speed dept.

[BROADMINDED]

Look At What All Of The Ski Race Boats Are Running. 90% Of The Race Boats Out There Are Running Twin Turbo's. These Boats Are Running At 65- 85 For An Hour Plus At A Time. I Would Go With The Turbo Set Up.

[Blingette]

There are quite a few big boats getting away from the blowers and going to the turbos. That "Gone Again" boat that was at the poker run in Havasu in April had a pair of twin turboed large displacement engines coupled to a pair of #6's and it got across the water just fine and was quiet at idle to boot. :) :D
If ya talk to Rick (the owner of Gone again), he'll tell ya the twin turbo set up has a ton of acceleration. I've been in plenty of twin turbo set ups that have been done by a engine builder who knows how to set up turbos, (Carson Brummett) and the low end as well as mid range is crazy. Remember this to, on the fuel injected turbo motors theres no pulley swap, get the right gas, flip a switch and hold the fock on. And Jordy, I belive Ricks motors are only 557 cubes.

[burtandnancy]

Palapahead, well, I raced ski race boats since the seventies, all with turbos. I've driven every combination ever thought up by Gentry, Dunsmore, Brummett, Banks and Gary Teague. I'm 100% a turbo fan. Do it right and you will have a super time. The latest, greatest, state of the art is a very specific size turbo/waste gate, fuel injected, inner cooled, pump gas usin', LOW compression, dry sumped big incher. And theres now talk of variable-vane turbo's if you want to experiment, or compound turbo's, the list is endless, its only limited by the amount you want to invest. Just keep it fun...

[Froggystyle]

I think everyone is beginning to understand how/why the price of the Revolution went up... ;)
It is so cool though. So much power, so much more with good gas...
We did 918 barely breathing on 87 octane. This is by far the best forced induction setup. Spendy, but by far the best. Coupled with custom injection, there really is nothing out of the scope of possiblilities

[PalapaHead]

If ya talk to Rick (the owner of Gone again), he'll tell ya the twin turbo set up has a ton of acceleration. I've been in plenty of twin turbo set ups that have been done by a engine builder who knows how to set up turbos, (Carson Brummett) and the low end as well as mid range is crazy. Remember this to, on the fuel injected turbo motors theres no pulley swap, get the right gas, flip a switch and hold the fock on. And Jordy, I belive Ricks motors are only 557 cubes.
Would you happen to have contact #'s for these guys?

[Froggystyle]

Would you happen to have contact #'s for these guys?
Yes.
(626) 792-6410

[Jordy]

And Jordy, I belive Ricks motors are only 557 cubes.
Only 557??? I was just suggesting that they were a little bigger than the standard 454, not some monster 800+ cu. in. monsters. :D
He showed up in that boat to Speed Alley on Friday for the Big Block Spanking Party and that boat is just insane. He seemed like a nice guy from what I could tell granted he was mobbed with people checking his boat out and throwing questions at him as fast as he could answer them. Granted he didn't seem very happy when he thought our little floatilla was the first card stop and he'd beaten Predator there, when in fact it was a little ways further down the lake. :D :D :D

[Jordy]

Hope not too many peeps witnessed that beeeeeeitchslap. LOL!!!!
I don't know that anyone witnessed it, but when HolyMoly posted up his account of the Bitch Slap Heard 'Round the World, I was laughing my ass off. :D :D :D

[h2oski2fast]

NO one builds a better turbo motor then Carson Brummett.

[HM]

Who was it that got bitchslapped by a woman at a gas station? ;) :D
Hey, keep the facts out of this! :D

[HM]

I don't know that anyone witnessed it, but when HolyMoly posted up his account of the Bitch Slap Heard 'Round the World, I was laughing my ass off. :D :D :D
There were a couple of Air Conditioner guys that laughed their ass off at the next pump - and a few others I am sure but I did not take the time to take a head count of who was laughing - I was busy looking for my dignity...still haven't found it.
:cry: :D :D

[Jordy]

I was busy looking for my dignity...still haven't found it.
:cry: :D :D
I found it for you. It's right here:
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25884
:D :D :D

[Tom Brown]

...there are some major players in the power market heading that way now......
That explains all the girly squeals coming from the big ballers lately.

[InKahntrol]

Whipple quad rotor with injection - just a step up on coolness and a huge step up in lower RPM Torque. But if want to be a girly man on torque, go the twin turbo set up. ;) :D
:eat:
I just finished the dyno work on my project motor... It's a 496 with a Lunati lightweight billet crank, forged i-beam rods, 8.5:1 Lunati blower/turbo pistons, Cometic gaskets, heavily ported Canfield aluminum heads with inconnel 2.25 and 1.88 valves, and an Engle TCS-7 turbo cam. Induction is an extrude-honed and port-matched Edelbrock performer rpm air-gap rectangle port, huffed with a modified PFM turbo setup using RayJay turbos, new wastegates, and two freshly boost referenced 850 double pumpers. Everything is watercooled and jacketed. I went with a mild cam and the dual plane intake to keep torque up, since most of my boating is done around 3,000 rpm with occasional jaunts to 6,000.
On the dyno, my motor made OVER 550 lb/ft of torque from IDLE TO REDLINE. It made OVER 700 lb/Ft of torque from 2,000 to 5,800. Peak numbers: 990 horsepower @ 5,400 rpm and 890 lb/ft of torque at 4,800 rpm. That was at 15 lbs of boost with the MSD BTM dialed up burning 100 octane AvGas. My dyno guy figured if I wanted to throw in some C14 and play with the timing we could easily squeeze 1,100 horsepower out of it, but I declined. The final setup is dialed down to 12 lbs of boost and it still makes over 800 horsepower, more than enough for me. :hammerhea

[HM]

Someone has not been paying attention... we had 730 foot pounds at 3000 RPM. It doesn't get bigger lower than twin turbos. This thing would rip any prop off the transom at 3000....
730 at 3000..... :sleeping: Figures the jet guy would call 3000 rpm low rpm :eek:
So, I am wondering why top fuelers are not running turbos? :wink: (I know, they don't run compressors either).
PalapaHead...my posts might give you insight to why I got biatch slapped. :)
Besides... it is not a clear case of one is better. They both have pros and cons to consider. You can't go wrong with either. What do want to accomplish?
SuperDave and Infomaniac will give you the straight dealio on both. Dustin Whipple makes a good argument for compressors, but then he makes a living selling compressors. Infomaniac owns a quadrotor whipple setup and is building/built the twin turbo setup for Froggy. Lots of ski racers going twin turbo, but then they are not concerned about a hole shot.
Turbo's and Compressors/Centrifugal (Whipple/Procharger) are great for endurance due to the lack of heat generated in compression. Turbo's don't "rob" any HP (actually not true - an argument we can save for later - backpressure robs HP - it just does not rob HP to the extent of a supercharger) while Superchargers "rob" HP in the act of generating it.

[PalapaHead]

I found it for you. It's right here:
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25884
:D :D :D
Dude I just read the thread. Warn us next time you post some funny shiat like dat again. Im sittin in my cube, its all quiet around me, until I read the whole story HolyMoly posted. I was LMAO!! That is some funny, funny shit. You're right, the greatest gradification is to see an irate tramp gettin all worked up and have no-one to listen to her. Woulda been funny as hell if the PO-PO's woulda let ya press yo ass up against the back window of the cop car while she was in it.

[PalapaHead]

NO one builds a better turbo motor then Carson Brummett.
This guy have a website?

[Jordy]

Dustin Whipple makes a good argument for compressors, but then he makes a living selling compressors.
Really, selling them huh? Seems as though they used make a good living selling them, however these days they seem to be thriving on backorders... ;) :D
Oh and Dustin did make some great arguments in that last thread. Too bad it was deleted. :jawdrop: :idea: :D

[carreraboat]

Or a phone number?

[Norseman]

Twin Turbo with EFI

[h2oski2fast]

This guy have a website?
Not that I know of, but here is some contact info:
Brummett Marine
310 N Altadena Dr, Pasadena, CA 91107
(626) 792-6410

[mbrown2]

I think either setup is good, compressors or turbo's...Does'nt one of the Davis Ski race boats run a PSI (twin imco drive Cyclone?), so I think it all depends on what you want.
Yes, there is a backlog on Whipples right now, but when Merc puts compressors on their higher end motors that should tell you something.....Turbo's are great, but the setup is complex and not cheap...I had great luck with my whipple while I had it...awesome torque..
The twin turbo is kind of a nostalgic (sp?) setup especially when you are talking about a classic day cruiser...
This argument has been played over and over in Car Forums for the last 30 years....

[PalapaHead]

F-IT!!! Im goin with a pair of these.... CYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/11650f14-detail-engine-06l.jpg

[HM]

:eat:
I just finished the dyno work on my project motor... It's a 496 with a Lunati lightweight billet crank, forged i-beam rods, 8.5:1 Lunati blower/turbo pistons, Cometic gaskets, heavily ported Canfield aluminum heads with inconnel 2.25 and 1.88 valves, and an Engle TCS-7 turbo cam. Induction is an extrude-honed and port-matched Edelbrock performer rpm air-gap rectangle port, huffed with a modified PFM turbo setup using RayJay turbos, new wastegates, and two freshly boost referenced 850 double pumpers. Everything is watercooled and jacketed. I went with a mild cam and the dual plane intake to keep torque up, since most of my boating is done around 3,000 rpm with occasional jaunts to 6,000.
On the dyno, my motor made OVER 550 lb/ft of torque from IDLE TO REDLINE. It made OVER 700 lb/Ft of torque from 2,000 to 5,800. Peak numbers: 990 horsepower @ 5,400 rpm and 890 lb/ft of torque at 4,800 rpm. That was at 15 lbs of boost with the MSD BTM dialed up burning 100 octane AvGas. My dyno guy figured if I wanted to throw in some C14 and play with the timing we could easily squeeze 1,100 horsepower out of it, but I declined. The final setup is dialed down to 12 lbs of boost and it still makes over 800 horsepower, more than enough for me. :hammerhea
You are taking me too seriously. But those aren't bad numbers for a girly setup. ;) My small block chevy made 750 HP and 680 lbs torque running 18 lbs of boost with a roots style blower...so what is your point?
Arn't the ausi ski race guys getting 1,800 HP out of twin turbo setups running 30lbs of boost with high compression?
Again, depends on what you want you boat to do and how much you want to spend. Hey, I like a twin turbo setup as much as anyone, just having fun with the hardline turbo guys. Shoot, my dad ran a gale banks twin turbo set up on his 23 foot sleek craft back in 1985 - that boat kicked as at 65 MPH - with a small block....too bad we went through about 1 alpha drive per year.
I also had the pleasure of grenading my blown small block in my flattie while under full boost under hard acceleration at about 85 MPH and 6500 RPM. Nothing like hot oil all over your back to get your attention after the sound of a cannon in your ear, then nearly flipping, and then trying to steer a v-drive with a seized prop (didn't have a whirl-away. I though the trans would suffice...uh no.) That was a bad day to decide not to wear depends.
;)

[HM]

Dude I just read the thread. Warn us next time you post some funny shiat like dat again. Im sittin in my cube, its all quiet around me, until I read the whole story HolyMoly posted. I was LMAO!! That is some funny, funny shit. You're right, the greatest gradification is to see an irate tramp gettin all worked up and have no-one to listen to her. Woulda been funny as hell if the PO-PO's woulda let ya press yo ass up against the back window of the cop car while she was in it.
I wasn't laughing at the time, but I knew it would get some laughs here on HB. I am all for doing anything for a laugh....that was until Frenchie came along....that story could make you laugh or disturb you - but there was some great photo chopping that came out of that. ;)
Back to Turbo's...or superchargers......oh and don't forget NOS. :D

[cdog]

Turbo's are the way to go in any application. On my next boat I think I may go with twin LS7 corvete small blocks with twin turbos. They will handle 900HP all day everyday and weigh in 250 pounds lighter than a big block. If TT's are in your budget. Don't even think about a blower.

[HM]

Turbo's are the way to go in any application. On my next boat I think I may go with twin LS7 corvete small blocks with twin turbos. They will handle 900HP all day everyday and weigh in 250 pounds lighter than a big block. If TT's are in your budget. Don't even think about a blower.
Perhaps you can go down to the drags (both boat and car) and let them know the error of their wayzzzzzzzzzzzzz. :rollside:

[cdog]

My dad used to race turbo hydo drag boats. If you follow drags you'd see how TT's and even single T's are taking over. Blowers make a lot of brute HP and TQ but at a high cost to the engine internals. TT's are way more efficent. That's why they have to tear down the top fuel and funny car engines so much. Mabey if you looked beyond what you see on espn you'd notice all of that.

[HM]

My dad used to race turbo hydo drag boats. If you follow drags you'd see how TT's and even single T's are taking over. Blowers make a lot of brute HP and TQ but at a high cost to the engine internals. TT's are way more efficent. That's why they have to tear down the top fuel and funny car engines so much. Mabey if you looked beyond what you see on espn you'd notice all of that.
What is ESPN? LOL...I don't watch t.v.
Compressor and Centrifugal superchargers are making some major inroads as well. But you can keep on those turbo are best for ALL application blinders if you like.
So, you are saying if the top fuel guys saw the error of their wayzzzzz they would convert to turbo's and not have to tear down their motors? Wow, who knew? :rolleyes: :D

[Just Tool'n]

If my memory serves me correctly, there was a huge thread on this very same topic, (EFI Twin Turbo) 2-3 months ago back in the blower motors section, I think it went for like 5-7 pages of tech questions & anwsers.
It was very good info!
I will someday build an EFI twin turbo setup, Its just one of those things I think is supercool.
From a business side of things, I think there is a ton of money to be made in the marine segment of the business, someone just needs to come up with a reliable EFI Twin turbo setup kit, alot like whipple or vortex/procharger system.
All of the parts, turbos, intercooler, exhust manifolds, wastegate & computer program, & wiring harness.
In the thread, someone stated they were starting to put on together.
Just giving you my .02 worth.

[nitrofuel]

Top fuel cars are tore down every round for several reasons. Nitro with a blower, turbo or just injected is extremely hard on all parts due to the amount of fuel used. Several crew chiefs has said with 75 minute rule, it is the only way to cool the engine internally. The big reason is to look for damage. Back to the question If you want to have a simple HP adder go with a blower. Dont forget your drive also. If you have the funds a turbo is great. I have Kawasaki 750 turbo that makes 160 hp on pump gas and about 210 on race gas. That is with 46 cubic inches.

[Just Tool'n]

here is a link to the threrad i was refering to.
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72889&highlight=efi+turbos

[Riverkid]

Palapahead, well, I raced ski race boats since the seventies, all with turbos. I've driven every combination ever thought up by Gentry, Dunsmore, Brummett, Banks and Gary Teague. I'm 100% a turbo fan. Do it right and you will have a super time. The latest, greatest, state of the art is a very specific size turbo/waste gate, fuel injected, inner cooled, pump gas usin', LOW compression, dry sumped big incher. And theres now talk of variable-vane turbo's if you want to experiment, or compound turbo's, the list is endless, its only limited by the amount you want to invest. Just keep it fun...
I think I've found a new idol... :D lol.
Wow. Did you ever race with Tom Rossebo? He had a red 19' turbo Spectra that Teague rigged? Old neighbor of mine.
Hijack off. Go turbo, with an experienced engine builder, and you won't go wrong. Good luck.

[PalapaHead]

Ive seen alot of peeps mention 'if I can afford it, turbo is the way to go'....I have an located a complete - Gale Banks Twin Turbo for Big Block Chevy. Kit
includes water cooled turbo covers / jackets / housing
and the Gale Banks Stage III (3) Venturi Flow dual element Intercooler. This came off of a running 454 jet boat. Includes all manuals (install, overhaul, etc..) carb, fittings, steel braided hoses. All this nonsense for 1600.00! Unless I am missing sumthin here, blowers run in the 3-5k range Ive heard. I think im gonna pick this up. :2purples:

[Beer-30]

Tiz the rigging that ends up in $$$. Plumbing (all of those water lines), you'll need a sea strainer, if you don't already have one. At that price it is carbureted. Personnally, I wouldn't stick with the carb. The injection will be $2-4K, depending on who and what you go with. There is timing control to consider, hopefully integrated with the fuel management (safest). And there would be more plumbing for the fuel. Then there is the fabrication of exh to your tips and plumbing the wastegates. Plumbing the oil lines to and from each turbo will take some time and braided line also.
After all of that is installed, it is just a matter of several hours of dialing it in on the water. Working the fuel/ign mapping up safely.
You could start with the carb(s) and then eventually add the injection.

[superdave013]

Ive seen alot of peeps mention 'if I can afford it, turbo is the way to go'....I have an located a complete - Gale Banks Twin Turbo for Big Block Chevy. Kit
includes water cooled turbo covers / jackets / housing
and the Gale Banks Stage III (3) Venturi Flow dual element Intercooler. This came off of a running 454 jet boat. Includes all manuals (install, overhaul, etc..) carb, fittings, steel braided hoses. All this nonsense for 1600.00! Unless I am missing sumthin here, blowers run in the 3-5k range Ive heard. I think im gonna pick this up. :2purples:
Those were nice basic systems. It's cheep because it was made back in the '70s. lol If the intercooler cores go bad you'll have fun replacing them. Can be done though. I bet it has RayJay turbos with fixed waste gates (hole between compressor and exhaust side). Still not bad for what they are. I had one and it's what got me hooked on turbos.
I bet a nice Burmmett kit will be in the 16K+ range (less engine of course). It can be done for way less if you can do the fab work yourself. But those Burmmett set ups are very nice and have been tested over and over.

[superdave013]

Holly Molly :D is a turbo hater because his Jag gets blown off by some kid in a Honda Civic (with a junkyard turbo system). lol

[obnoxious001]

I bet a nice Burmmett kit will be in the 16K+ range (less engine of course). It can be done for way less if you can do the fab work yourself. But those Burmmett set ups are very nice and have been tested over and over.
I still have a brand new Genty/Brummett kit for sale, $7,000, as well as a complete 505 cu in Gentry engine, American parts, Lunati, Crower, JE, Dart, everything polished and stainless, lots of custom stuff like carb box supports, wedges under turbos, and stainless carb scoops, $15k. The real deal. agt001@aol.com

[PalapaHead]

I really dont know a whole lot about them, or their operation. All I know is how to work the throttle, real good. I gota a call from Banks this morning and they said they got out of the marine industry and big block TT's about 20yrs ago. The turbo's in this kit are RayJay. Is there another co. that makes a TT for big blocks now? Anyone have any input on this kit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gale-Banks-Twin-Turbo-BBC-Big-Block-Chevy-boat-marine_W0QQitemZ7989427901QQcategoryZ33742QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
THANKS ALOT! :D

[cdog]

Just some friendly advice. Next time you need real info on turbos and blowers, post in the blower or gear head forums. We got a lot of guy's here who can't even change their own oil giving out advice.

[superdave013]

Palapa,
That system that obnoxious001 has is a steel. And I've seen his 505" turboed engine. It's very nice as well. (someone could get the real deal engine for a fraction of new) And you can bet it's all top notch stuff. He used to work for Banks back in the day when they did all the boat stuff. And he's worked for some of the top turbo engine builders in So Cal before he started his own gig.
I guess what I'm sayin is he would be a good guy to get advice from on turbo stuff. If you wanted to peice something together yourself and it sounds like you don't then Unchained and Heavyhitter would be some other great sources.

[superdave013]

Just some friendly advice. Next time you need real info on turbos and blowers, post in the blower or gear head forums. We got a lot of guy's here who can't even change their own oil giving out advice.
yeah, but Holy Moly stayed at a Holiday Inn Express! LMAO I'm just kiddin ya Frank! :D

[PalapaHead]

I still have a brand new Genty/Brummett kit for sale, $7,000, as well as a complete 505 cu in Gentry engine, American parts, Lunati, Crower, JE, Dart, everything polished and stainless, lots of custom stuff like carb box supports, wedges under turbos, and stainless carb scoops, $15k. The real deal. agt001@aol.com
obnoxious001 - can I wash your windows or do some yard work in exchange for the Real Deal? I have my own lawn mower. :) :cool: :)

[obnoxious001]

obnoxious001 - can I wash your windows or do some yard work in exchange for the Real Deal? I have my own lawn mower. :) :cool: :)
If you are on a budget, the $1600 Banks kit will make some decent power for cheap. things to be careful of are correct plumbing for cooling system, adequate fuel flow (volume and pressure), and ignition timing.
As Dave said, I did work for Banks about the time that stuff was made. Easier to PM or email me direct if you have questions, I may not find my way back to this thread if it is not at the top.

[nitrofuel]

Great reply CDOG ;)

[ahhell]

I want one of these...Banks system...1100 hp I believe, outta small block
http://www.bankspower.com/Twin-Turbo-images/TwinTurbo-offsideLeft.jpg

[HM]

yeah, but Holy Moly stayed at a Holiday Inn Express! LMAO I'm just kiddin ya Frank! :D
LOL....Yeah, I am just a knuckle head. I have only had two sand cars with turbo setups - one of them running 25 lbs of boost into a honda 1.5 liter that made 300 HP - running a side draft weber that I had to fab up my own fuel injection assistance that changed PSI based on boost - but any moron can do that and not have his motor grenade...I mean really, to get 7 hard seasons on a motor with 25 lbs of boost is no big woop. The other was a twin turbo 4.3 liter GM v-6. Plus my blown small block that I ran two different types of superchargers on and then ran a roots style on my Campbell for a short time, then sold it to upgrade to a quad...which is a project yet to be completed. I change my own oil, but I don't use a dip stick since I am the dip that sticks the oil in. In my family, I come from a long line of forced induction enthusiasts. Dad has a whipple charged suburban that has a 540 in it, he put a twin turbo intercooled system on his tag axel motorhome with a 460 ford that would run 80 up the Cajon pass at about 1/2 throttle, mom has a turbo PT Cruiser and Dad now has the Porsche Cayenne Twin Turbo and is finishing his 3.3 whippled 502 with EFI on his 25 ft Connelly v-drive not to mention he had a gale banks twin turbo on his sleek when NO ONE was running forced induction, brother has a whippled denali, whippled Howard v-d-rive cruiser, and a turbo Grey Market BMW, sister has a turbo carrera and a turbo Audi, youger sister who has a whippled sandcar with a northstar v-8 and a whippled suburban, father in law has a whippled suburban and a twin supercharger Jaguar.
But other than that, I really have had very little exposure to forced induction, infact, I don't even know what the word means...I just like the sound of it.
But, it is IGNORANT to claim one type forced induction is best for all applications. But I will leave that argument for the Mental Midgets of the boards who have no sense of humor or quite possibly any personality :wink:
RD SUX!

[Riverkid]

LOL....Yeah, I am just a knuckle head. I have only had two sand cars with turbo setups - one of them running 25 lbs of boost into a honda 1.5 liter that made 300 HP - running a side draft weber that I had to fab up my own fuel injection assistance that changed PSI based on boost - but any moron can do that and not have his motor grenade...I mean really, to get 7 hard seasons on a motor with 25 lbs of boost is no big woop. The other was a twin turbo 4.3 liter GM v-6. Plus my blown small block that I ran two different types of superchargers on and then ran a roots style on my Campbell for a short time, then sold it to upgrade to a quad...which is a project yet to be completed. I change my own oil, but I don't use a dip stick since I am the dip that sticks the oil in. In my family, I come from a long line of forced induction enthusiasts. Dad has a whipple charged suburban that has a 540 in it, he put a twin turbo intercooled system on his tag axel motorhome with a 460 ford that would run 80 up the Cajon pass at about 1/2 throttle, mom has a turbo PT Cruiser and Dad now has the Porsche Cayenne Twin Turbo and is finishing his 3.3 whippled 502 with EFI on his 25 ft Connelly v-drive not to mention he had a gale banks twin turbo on his sleek when NO ONE was running forced induction, brother has a whippled denali, whippled Howard v-d-rive cruiser, and a turbo Grey Market BMW, sister has a turbo carrera and a turbo Audi, youger sister who has a whippled sandcar with a northstar v-8 and a whippled suburban, father in law has a whippled suburban and a twin supercharger Jaguar.
But other than that, I really have had very little exposure to forced induction, infact, I don't even know what the word means...I just like the sound of it.
But, it is IGNORANT to claim one type forced induction is best for all applications. But I will leave that argument for the Mental Midgets of the boards who have no sense of humor or quite possibly any personality :wink:
RD SUX!
Geeze Frank, I think you made your point. However, I think you missed the blown Campbell dealio that Brian ended up with the top end off of? Your family has the market corned on FI! :D :D :D

[nitrofuel]

One busa made 701hp out of 1300cc on the dyno this year at daytona. Thats pretty impressive. With a turbo. :)

[PalapaHead]

LOL....Yeah, I am just a knuckle head. I have only had two sand cars with turbo setups - one of them running 25 lbs of boost into a honda 1.5 liter that made 300 HP - running a side draft weber that I had to fab up my own fuel injection assistance that changed PSI based on boost - but any moron can do that and not have his motor grenade...I mean really, to get 7 hard seasons on a motor with 25 lbs of boost is no big woop. The other was a twin turbo 4.3 liter GM v-6. Plus my blown small block that I ran two different types of superchargers on and then ran a roots style on my Campbell for a short time, then sold it to upgrade to a quad...which is a project yet to be completed. I change my own oil, but I don't use a dip stick since I am the dip that sticks the oil in. In my family, I come from a long line of forced induction enthusiasts. Dad has a whipple charged suburban that has a 540 in it, he put a twin turbo intercooled system on his tag axel motorhome with a 460 ford that would run 80 up the Cajon pass at about 1/2 throttle, mom has a turbo PT Cruiser and Dad now has the Porsche Cayenne Twin Turbo and is finishing his 3.3 whippled 502 with EFI on his 25 ft Connelly v-drive not to mention he had a gale banks twin turbo on his sleek when NO ONE was running forced induction, brother has a whippled denali, whippled Howard v-d-rive cruiser, and a turbo Grey Market BMW, sister has a turbo carrera and a turbo Audi, youger sister who has a whippled sandcar with a northstar v-8 and a whippled suburban, father in law has a whippled suburban and a twin supercharger Jaguar.
But other than that, I really have had very little exposure to forced induction, infact, I don't even know what the word means...I just like the sound of it.
But, it is IGNORANT to claim one type forced induction is best for all applications. But I will leave that argument for the Mental Midgets of the boards who have no sense of humor or quite possibly any personality :wink:
RD SUX!
Umm,
Any of your sisters single? Here's a pic of me....
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/11650MugPiece.jpg

[boosted350]

I saw another Turbo post and had to chime in....
Turbos are the way to go....this thread has established that. :wink:
Most are affraid of them because thats not what the "masses" are doing and aren't they always right??? And most of the sytems out there are old and outdated
Turbos aren't expensive.....you can do a single set up (don't always need twins) thats just as efficient and will perform down low(for you supercharger guys) for just a little more than the current supercharger systems out there.( it will out perform it by quite a bit as well :wink: ) Ask me how I know?
Education is key...so just to touch on a few things....
Heat: You don't have to have a water jacketed manifold.(personal preference..if you want it get it) With todays technology there are many ways to deal with the heat issue and you can get a better performing manifold this way. (gains of and over 80hp at the same PSI levels)
Boost control: You can control how much power you want when you want, by a push of a button. No need to stop and spend an hour changing a pulley and a belt. This also helps those who are concerned about their drives not holding up to allot of HP.
Noise: Turbos are way quiter than a blown motor......nice to have that big motor behind you and not have to spend a ton of $$$ on mufflers that rob power and be worried about that noise violation.
Didn't want to write a book....just want to stir the pot and drum up some interest. Hope it helps. If you don't want to ask a question in public IM me or send me an email to: Todd@Full-Race.com. I want to help.
Thanks

[Froggystyle]

I saw another Turbo post and had to chime in....
Turbos are the way to go....this thread has established that. :wink:
Most are affraid of them because thats not what the "masses" are doing and aren't they always right??? And most of the sytems out there are old and outdated
Turbos aren't expensive.....you can do a single set up (don't always need twins) thats just as efficient and will perform down low(for you supercharger guys) for just a little more than the current supercharger systems out there.( it will out perform it by quite a bit as well :wink: ) Ask me how I know?
Education is key...so just to touch on a few things....
Heat: You don't have to have a water jacketed manifold.(personal preference..if you want it get it) With todays technology there are many ways to deal with the heat issue and you can get a better performing manifold this way. (gains of and over 80hp at the same PSI levels)
Boost control: You can control how much power you want when you want, by a push of a button. No need to stop and spend an hour changing a pulley and a belt. This also helps those who are concerned about their drives not holding up to allot of HP.
Noise: Turbos are way quiter than a blown motor......nice to have that big motor behind you and not have to spend a ton of $$$ on mufflers that rob power and be worried about that noise violation.
Didn't want to write a book....just want to stir the pot and drum up some interest. Hope it helps. If you don't want to ask a question in public IM me or send me an email to: Todd@Full-Race.com. I want to help.
Thanks
I don't want to bust your balloon here, but it is obvious you don't do a lot of systems on boats. You are putting out quite a bit of misinformation that could be very misleading to anyone interested in a system.
A) Single turbo system requires a ton of plumbing in a restricted space for a boat. By the time you manage the water jackets (see below) you have a $3,000 set of stainless jacketed head pipes which is more than the cost of a second turbo. For the record, basically every system is going to be different due to size restrictions, so you better have one hell of an exhaust company to work with and plan of paying through the nose for prototype work. Dana Marine charges $1200 or so for a simple set of stainless jacketed downtubes. What would you imagine this would cost to have developed per boat? You save on the pop off valves and wastegates, but a single controller will run both so no savings. Additionally, you won't get a low end improvement if you run a turbo big enough to spin your top end right. Smaller twins in normal boat use will spool earlier and pull longer from every account I have heard from people doing it forever.
B) You sure as hell need a jacketed system. Coast Guard regulations for enclosed engine compartments (the kind of boat most of us are talking about here) dictate a maximum underhood temperature for any component. Anything above that temp needs a blanket so that the surface temperature is below that. Do whatever you want in a open compartment jet or v-drive I guess. Blankets for the record are terrible in an engine compartment that can see any humidity. They work OK for yachts with large, dry engine compartments, but the heating and cooling cycle of out type of boat will suck humidity into the jacket and cause near immediate corrosion.
C) The "old and outdated" systems are using the newest ball bearing Turbonetics Y2K turbos, fully programmable injection/wastegates and anti-lag switches. Additionally, cast hardware (turbo housings, manifolds, intercooler housings, plumbing and intakes) is fully water jacketed, well considered and proven. I see exactly zero reason why they would be considered outdated other than that the tooling has been around a while. So has the big block Chevy tooling though. Advance the components, advance the part.
For the record, I wasted seven months working with a auto turbo expert, Hellion Motorsports. They have a great record with turn key systems, race systems and mustang stuff in particular. They have built and prototyped countless import and domestic systems all of which blew away expectations. I worked with many experts from Turbonetics all the way to F.A.S.T. technicians. All talked about how easy it would be to do... none had clue one how to do execute. None could cite Coast Guard req's or rules regarding turbo applications in boats. None knew who to talk to.
When I opted for the "old and outdated" system it was because of the stupid climb I would be making to generate tooling to do exactly the same thing but without any experience in the genre.
I appreciate you coming on here and offering your experience and services, but before you decide to bite off a boat system, I would make sure you can chew the whole thing first. I am not known for shirking innovation, and I found this particular task to be best left to the experts.

[Freak]

I want one of these...Banks system...1100 hp I believe, outta small block
http://www.bankspower.com/Twin-Turbo-images/TwinTurbo-offsideLeft.jpg
Remember when Banks would sell a complete camaro to you in the 80's with this setup. I saw one on the street. It was a total sleeper and spanked everything. I kept the write up on it for years. 205mph up hill in a head wind. I wanted one BAD!

[Freak]

http://www.highperformancetorqueconverters.com/im_articles-images/SuperRod-Sept04-images/Firebird-Camero-lg.jpg
Once the blow-through twin-turbo system was fully engineered and tested, in a bold move, Banks started American Tubocar, Inc., a company set up to sell brand-new twin-turbo third-generation Camaros and Firebirds to the public. New Camaros and Firebirds were delivered in one door, and Banks and crew promptly pulled out their 305s and drivelines and installed 500-, 600- or 700hp twin-turbo 350ci (5.7-liter) Chevrolets and a barrage of other goodies. Out the other door came Banks’ "GT Camaros and Firebirds," and each car's horsepower was limited only by the thickness of the customer's wallet—the choice of engine-building materials and the boost settings on the wastegate.
The cars were extremely complete when they left the Banks "factory." Each engine was broken in on the dynamometer and fully tested. The 500hp version was essentially an automotive version of Banks' four-bolt-main marine twin-turbo small-block Chevrolet engine, with iron 1.94-/1.5-inch heads, forged marine pistons and an "automotive-style'' twin-turbo system, running about 8 lbs of boost.
The 600- and 700hp versions used early-style four-bolt-main high-performance Chevrolet blocks, LT1 Pink connecting rods and 461 iron heads with 2.02-/1.5-inch valves. The intake manifolds were specially made by Edelbrock for Banks; the hydraulic-lifter camshafts were ground to Banks' specs by Camshaft Specialties; and the pistons were Banks-designed "reverse pop-up" forgings. The valvetrain was a combination of Manley valves, Crane rocker arms and Iskenderian springs. Banks used a Hayes HEI Stinger ignition and a modified 9022 Holley 800cfm marine-use four-barrel carburetor on both the 600- and 700hp versions.
The 600hp heads received pocket porting and had their chambers polished. They also received a slightly hotter cam and a slightly lower compression ratio than the 500hp engine did. The 600hp engine operated at 11 to 12 lbs of boost. The 700hp version had fully ported and polished heads, an even hotter camshaft, a lower compression ratio and a set of Carrillo rods, which resulted in the ability to produce 16 to 17 lbs of boost. Both the 600- and 70Ohp engines also had water/alcohol injection to prevent detonation.
The transmission of choice was a Doug Nash (now Richmond) five-speed, and Banks had to develop special transmission mounts, brackets and the linkage to the Hurst shifter tower. Banks even incorporated the front torque-arm mount into one of his brackets. A steel flywheel and twin-clutch discs were used, with a severe-duty pressure plate, and, of course, the driveshaft was balanced. Twin-clutch discs were unheard of on the street at that time. The suspension was completely reworked with heavier-duty springs and Koni shocks on all corners, with huge sway bars front and rear, replacing the smallish factory units. Banks also beefed up the rear trailing arms and installed a then-unheard-of 9-inch Ford rearend assembly with a 3:50:1-ratio gear and rear disc brakes. Other Banks-modified items were a larger radiator with electric fan, a custom exhaust and twin Holley electric fuel pumps. Banks even had custom gauges built for his GTs, including a 200-mph speedometer and an 8,000-rpm tach that replaced the factory items.
The company sold more than 20 cars and more than 70 complete engines from 1982 to 1988.
THAT was one bad mofo. I wish I could find one of those 20 cars.