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View Full Version : New Howard Sportdeck Runs...hard!!



TPI
08-17-2005, 06:53 PM
We just got back from Lake Elsinore. The new Howard Sportdeck hit the water today, and I am more than impressed. This was not a speed test at all, but there was plenty of speed to be had. Better than that, the boat handles awesome and turns perfectly. It was the worst Cat conditions possible: Hot, Humid, and a sheet of glass. There were 4 of us in the boat and we had over 1/2 a tank of fuel. Let me just say this: This boat easliy accellerates beyond 90 mph with a STOCK 28 four blade prop. We did not even test props or push the boat to its maximum potenetial. I wonder what its top speed is?????????Time will tell, I cannot. This boat is going to make a lot of people VERY happy(Not including other manufacturers). I will post some pics as I get them.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db1m.JPG

TPI
08-17-2005, 06:55 PM
This pic was taken last week before the boat was finished:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383sp4m.JPG

Kilrtoy
08-17-2005, 06:56 PM
Looks awesome, what motor is in there...

Kilrtoy
08-17-2005, 06:58 PM
Ok you posted the pics as i was typing, very nice...
how much is that package as it sits...

Coach
08-17-2005, 06:59 PM
What is the size of the boat?

TPI
08-17-2005, 07:01 PM
I am not sure how much Howard is getting for the boat at this point, I think $100K with a 496. I would be willing to bet it will run over 70 mph with a 496 no problem!
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db3m.JPG

TPI
08-17-2005, 07:02 PM
I believe the size is 28.5'. The lay up must be perfect, because it did not feel heavy at all, but it was totally solid and stable at ALL speeds!

hot_diggity_dog
08-17-2005, 07:04 PM
This pic was taken last week before the boat was finished:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383sp4m.JPG
Just plain SWEEEEEEET great rigging and detail!
HDD

TCHB
08-17-2005, 07:23 PM
I had a Howard 22 OFF Shore open bow and was impressed at the overall quality and details of the boat. This looks like a typical Howard!

BADBLOWN572
08-17-2005, 07:34 PM
Just plain SWEEEEEEET great rigging and detail!
HDD
I saw that picture and I was thinking the same thing!

bigq
08-17-2005, 08:05 PM
I got to hand it to Mike . He has done a great job with the new designs and obviously knows how to make them run. Great Job! ;)
I guess the motor looks ok too. :D :D

Jrocket
08-17-2005, 08:17 PM
Nice job! Boat looked great.
Did Rudy get sick,he doesnt like going fast at all...LOL

atomickitn
08-17-2005, 08:22 PM
We just got back from Lake Elsinore. The new Howard Sportdeck hit the water today, and I am more than impressed. This was not a speed test at all, but there was plenty of speed to be had. Better than that, the boat handles awesome and turns perfectly. It was the worst Cat conditions possible: Hot, Humid, and a sheet of glass. There were 4 of us in the boat and we had over 1/2 a tank of fuel. Let me just say this: This boat easliy accellerates beyond 90 mph with a STOCK 28 four blade prop. We did not even test props or push the boat to its maximum potenetial. I wonder what its top speed is?????????Time will tell, I cannot. This boat is going to make a lot of people VERY happy(Not including other manufacturers). I will post some pics as I get them.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db1m.JPG
thouse sure are nice looking graphics, they look soo much like the graphics i did for two of my boats for the la show this year, all the way down to the same exact color and fades, pins ect, iguess they needed some new ideas, that they had to take them from us at dana, i worked prety hard to come up with some new origanal designs that had not not yet been done , i was going to comment on this back when i saw it come out of the mold's but what the hell, i guess ill get credit someday..... :confused:

atomickitn
08-17-2005, 08:26 PM
here's the boat that i built and designed for dana, notice any sims....http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2636dana_boats_008.jpg

NOCTURNAL
08-17-2005, 08:36 PM
They are not exact. The gel along the rub line fades to a point, yours does not. To say that your design on the Dana is completely original is untrue. I thought borrowing from other builders was part of an industry standard.

atomickitn
08-17-2005, 08:42 PM
thats funny i have yet to copy anybody's designs .... :idea:

NOCTURNAL
08-17-2005, 08:57 PM
What exactly is so unique about your design? The colors? No, that color mix has been seen for a few years. The solid bar along the rub rail? No. The only thing that looks different (read: new design) is the red deal in the rear.
Your scheme looks more like a variation of a theme rather than a completely new design that had never been seen before.

riverracerx
08-17-2005, 09:20 PM
Nice looking Howard. They are a sweet ride. Would love to see the new deck up close!
GT, nice looking motor!

SBullet
08-17-2005, 09:26 PM
That is a sweet looking Howard... More and more it seem that my next boat is going do be deckboat. :)

MagicMtnDan
08-17-2005, 09:56 PM
thouse sure are nice looking graphics, they look soo much like the graphics i did for two of my boats for the la show this year, all the way down to the same exact color and fades, pins ect, iguess they needed some new ideas, that they had to take them from us at dana, i worked prety hard to come up with some new origanal designs that had not not yet been done , i was going to comment on this back when i saw it come out of the mold's but what the hell, i guess ill get credit someday..... :confused:
Sounds like you're saying Howard copied your colors and graphics (design)?
I like your design but no offense, in my opinion, very little about your design is unique. There have been similar designs in a wide variety of colors including those for years. Your design looks good but saying Howard copied your design is a bit over the line don't you think? Have you called Howard personally to discuss this with them?

Ivan Dan
08-17-2005, 10:02 PM
Are there any pictures of the inside of this boat? Can anyone from Howard comment on what the price of this boat would run as it sits?

boxscore
08-17-2005, 10:20 PM
Can anyone from Howard comment on what the price of this boat would run as it sits?
Ummmmmmm... my best guess is that it won't happen around here. :(

franky
08-17-2005, 10:30 PM
here's the boat that i built and designed for dana, notice any sims....http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2636dana_boats_008.jpg
Thats a stretch to say they copied YOUR design, don't see it.

boxscore
08-17-2005, 10:35 PM
Thats a stretch to say they copied YOUR design, don't see it.
Really?.... pretty farkin close. But even if it was a "copy"... Who gives a shite?

roln 20s
08-17-2005, 11:09 PM
Are there any pictures of the inside of this boat? Can anyone from Howard comment on what the price of this boat would run as it sits?
I'd love to see some pics of this thing on the trailer, behind a truck and not in the water. That way I can visualize the real size of this thing, its huge. Hopefully Gary will post some pics of the inside soon too.
As for price (may have changed), the last I heard was the HO version is around $105k-$110k. My guess on this one-- as it sits would be $140-$150k. I'm not sure what drive and accessories they went with. All I know is the rigging makes it worth it-great work GT.
Congrats to Howard--I've always loved their boats and don't see any reason that I would ever stop--first rate all the way.
Roln 20s

TPI
08-18-2005, 05:29 AM
This is the only comment I will make regarding the design/gel. The CUSTOMER is resposible for their design. The Customer wanted the boat to look the way that it does, and it was Howard's responsibility to see that the lines flowed smoothly across the boat, and the colors faded SOFTLY against one another. The Customer is VERY, VERY happy with the way that it looks and the way that it performs. I call this boat.............."The Crab Claw!" :)
I cannot wait to run this boat again.........it will be soon.........and it will have a prop on it designed to go fast.

mxbundy
08-18-2005, 07:10 AM
Wow nice ride!
But I have a question. What qualifies this boat as being a deck boat?
The squared off bow area? The small wrap around part of the rear bench? I would say it is a bit of a stretch to call this a deck boat.
Is the swim step included in the 28 feet? A Magic 28' looks huge compared to that boat, and has a ton more deck space.
bundy

Deano
08-18-2005, 07:29 AM
WTF?? I can not believe the bashing going on with a "Howard" of all boats!
that thing is bad ass!
What makes a Magic, conquest, or any other deck boat a "deck boat"? I think it would be the front deck that you can step off of, que,no? as far as room. I havent seen a picture of it with the interior but, It sure looked roomy out of the mold.
and Dana boats...pleeeeze. I know some people from the board work/date for and promote them but...they have no comparison to alot of boats around here, especially this one.
I am definetly considering purchasing one of the Howards and would love to see that thing run.
"beyond 90 with a 28 stock blade"...fuk, that is flying. I bet that thing easily hits triple digits, with 700hp!!! damn good job.

Havasu_Dreamin
08-18-2005, 07:34 AM
Absolutely beautiful! Guess I got a new favorite deckboat!

mxbundy
08-18-2005, 07:48 AM
I am not bashing. I am sure the build quality is top notch.
But if you are gonna call something a deck boat it better have a ton of deck space. That boat just looks like a walk through cuddy cabin with a squared off front seating area. I just dont think that by changing the bow seating area a little qualifies it as being a TRUE deck boat.
A buddy of mine a Chapparal 24 deck that would duarf that thing.
So if you took an Ultra 27 Shadow (which to me looks bigger, maybe because it has more frreboard? ) and squared off the bow seating and made it so you could step out on the front it is now a deck boat? Where is the head, where is the sink, refigerater? ( yes the Chapparal has a built in frig. )
But this being a Howard, I am sure the boat is bitchen and will haul azz!
bundy

Deano
08-18-2005, 07:51 AM
Where is the head, where is the sink, refigerater?
bundy
are you sure you arent thinking of a houseboat? :D

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 07:52 AM
They are not exact. The gel along the rub line fades to a point, yours does not. To say that your design on the Dana is completely original is untrue. I thought borrowing from other builders was part of an industry standard.
I can't wait for someone to industry standard my designs.
I think I will buy a Ferrari the first time... I don't know what I will buy if it happens again. Maybe a house...

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 07:57 AM
This is the only comment I will make regarding the design/gel. The CUSTOMER is resposible for their design.
Absolutely 100% wrong. The liability lies totally with the manufacturer. Any copyright, Intellectual property concerns or otherwise are the responsibility of the person stealing the design.
And as far as whether or not those two were similar or not.... A jury would think it was the same boat. All you need to prove is that you can create confusion between which boat is which and you have won. Shape is not a concern.
I hate splashers... so very very much.

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 07:57 AM
I can think of a hundred lawyers that could beat you in court. Intellectual property rights cases are extremely hard to win. Believe me, I know, I come from the golf industry. Nobody has deeper pockets than Titleist/Acushnet. I'm not sure they've ever won a case.
Again, 100% wrong.
But feel free to advise anyone that splashes me.
Talk to Guess, Oakley, MTV, etc... That is who my law firm represents, and they are not accustomed to losing cases. These are slam dunks right here. Golf club "technology"... yeah, I could see how that would be tough. Stolen graphics on that scale are super easy.

mxbundy
08-18-2005, 08:03 AM
Froggy,
What sucks is that I have seen boats at the river allready while not complete splashes, you can tell that the designers must to have seen your boat pictures. I see a lot of swopes or lines ending in your little trident arrow type tips now.
bundy

2Driver
08-18-2005, 08:04 AM
Looking at that engine pic just makes me feel good! :)

laveydayz
08-18-2005, 08:45 AM
It seems that if a customer sees a graphic they really like on another boat mfg. how can you tell them no?? I know alot of my friends have had there boats done in a graphic scheme of another mfg. That Howard only slightly resembles the Dana. Its more the same "colors" than the actual graphic. Just my .02

Havasu_Dreamin
08-18-2005, 08:50 AM
That boat just looks like a walk through cuddy cabin with a squared off front seating area. I just dont think that by changing the bow seating area a little qualifies it as being a TRUE deck boat.
If I remember correctly this deckboat is all new tooling so there is no chopping of anything to make it an open space. And no, I don't own a Howard so I aint no cheerleader or slut, as the case may be, right Roln! LMAO.

LHC30Victory
08-18-2005, 08:54 AM
I liked the look of the boat while it was being built, and am now even more interested in it. Cant wait to see it in person to get a real idea of its size and layout - I'm not too good with pictures :rolleyes:

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 09:14 AM
I can't wait for someone to industry standard my designs.
I think I will buy a Ferrari the first time... I don't know what I will buy if it happens again. Maybe a house...
I cant wait either.All you do is talk about how your stuff is original and your going to sue.Fades and small tribal pointed lines have been done,so how do you expect to call that original?Your strating to get full of yourself,nothing wrong with being proud of what your doing and yes splashing somebody else to a tee is not right.I just dont see you winning in court.If a customer comes in and wants a certain gel scheme done,are you going to comb the face of the earth to make sure nobody else has already done it or what?What if you end up copying somebody else's gel and didnt know it?How can you say the manufacture is liable at this point?

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 09:15 AM
It seems that if a customer sees a graphic they really like on another boat mfg. how can you tell them no?? I know alot of my friends have had there boats done in a graphic scheme of another mfg. That Howard only slightly resembles the Dana. Its more the same "colors" than the actual graphic. Just my .02
You say "No... I will get sued."
There is a new sherriff in town. There will be a lot of education going on in the industry with regard to stealing graphics in the next few years. The 10% rule is imaginary. And if you don't think those two boats look nearly identical you need to get your eyes checked.
The shape of the orange, the shape of the red "claw" underneath, the line of the outline etc...
The good news for Howard is that the design is neither copyrighted or particularly original. Not to rain on Atomickitn's parade, but it looks very similar to a lot of stuff already on the market. There is NO QUESTION the Howard is derivative to say the least, and in my eyes it is a near direct splash. As it is "industry standard" there is a small likelihood of getting sued for it.
Mine has no less than 11 "features" that are protected. Shapes, proportions and weight of graphics play a role. The most important thing is what the overall appearance looks like. Mine doesn't look like anyones. It is in the shape of a Trident (trademarked) and is going to be on every boat. If someone hands a builder a picture of my boat, and says "I want it to look like this..." then it probably will. If it does, the first instance lawsuit is for $150,000 dollars plus you have to change the design. If you absolutely cannot sell a boat without my graphic, you can call and buy a liscense to use it. It will be an additional cost you need to turn over to your client, but if it is truly a no-go criteria, they should be willing to pay the person who designed it for the rights to use it.
I can't wait. This industry needs an enema.

Deano
08-18-2005, 09:25 AM
just like that Queen vs. Vanilla Ice case; queens song went, dun dun dun..dun dun dun....Vanillas went dun dun dun...dun dun ting dun...Vanilla won didnt he?
this shit is really hard to prove and the lawyers end up getting all the money anyways.

Not So Fast
08-18-2005, 09:29 AM
Really?.... pretty farkin close. But even if it was a "copy"... Who gives a shite?
Exactly, Box. It is a good looking boat period, why all the controversy??? The one thing I REALLY dont like is that I dont see dual forward facing seats. Sitting sideways gets old real fast. JMO! :wink: NSF

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 09:29 AM
I cant wait either.All you do is talk about how your stuff is original and your going to sue.Fades and small tribal pointed lines have been done,so how do you expect to call that original?Your strating to get full of yourself,nothing wrong with being proud of what your doing and yes splashing somebody else to a tee is not right.I just dont see you winning in court.If a customer comes in and wants a certain gel scheme done,are you going to comb the face of the earth to make sure nobody else has already done it or what?What if you end up copying somebody else's gel and didnt know it?How can you say the manufacture is liable at this point?
You do a copyright search. It is expensive, and I have done one for mine. As I have said before, I know what is protected indisputably on mine, but unless you do the research, you won't know if it is encroached upon.
ANY gelcoat design is protected from the moment it hits the boat in first use. It is termed a "prior use" argument. You can hit a splasher with a cease and desist immediately and prevent them from doing it again or you can sue. The difference between this and what I have, is that with a copyrighted and trademarked design, you can sue for $150,000 in the first infraction, which goes up from there for subsequent infractions. This falls under the liability coverage of most boat builders so it is an insurance decision whether or not to pay up or fight. It is a no-win situation for them, especially if the only excuse is "my customer brought in a picture of that boat and told me if I didn't copy it I wouldn't be able to sell them a boat". That is a dictionary definition of why you copyright and trademark. That means that they would not have had the business unless that graphic was used. A pre-law student could show that the the deciding factor was the graphic, and should it not be available by any source other than the original and as such that was a sale lost by the originator. If it wasn't truly a deciding factor, the manufacturer should have used a different and original graphic.
A big part of what we do as builders is design graphics. If you lack the capacity as a builder to design them, you shouldn't be able to sell them. You should have to pay someone who can design them or find some other solution, such as to sell all white boats. Imagine how much more impact companies that have good looking original graphics would have if they couldn't be copied by knock-off artists? How much value are these companies taking away from originators by being able to blatently copy graphics? How easily would you be able to tell the difference between the cheaper boats and the good ones?
Time will tell. Cocky? Maybe. I prefer to be considered well informed, and prepared for the battles ahead. Construe that how you want to.

Not So Fast
08-18-2005, 09:31 AM
Exactly, Box. It is a good looking boat period, why all the controversy??? The one thing I REALLY dont like is that I dont see dual forward facing seats. Sitting sideways gets old real fast. JMO! :wink: NSF
After looking more closely I may be wrong about the seating, hard to tell, my mistake i guess, still a good looking boat :chi: NSF

little rowe boat
08-18-2005, 09:33 AM
Well, getting back to the deckboat. I sure would like to see some interior pics.

Not So Fast
08-18-2005, 09:34 AM
You do a copyright search. It is expensive, and I have done one for mine. As I have said before, I know what is protected indisputably on mine, but unless you do the research, you won't know if it is encroached upon.
ANY gelcoat design is protected from the moment it hits the boat in first use. It is termed a "prior use" argument. You can hit a splasher with a cease and desist immediately and prevent them from doing it again or you can sue. The difference between this and what I have, is that with a copyrighted and trademarked design, you can sue for $150,000 in the first infraction, which goes up from there for subsequent infractions. This falls under the liability coverage of most boat builders so it is an insurance decision whether or not to pay up or fight. It is a no-win situation for them, especially if the only excuse is "my customer brought in a picture of that boat and told me if I didn't copy it I wouldn't be able to sell them a boat". That is a dictionary definition of why you copyright and trademark. That means that they would not have had the business unless that graphic was used. A pre-law student could show that the the deciding factor was the graphic, and should it not be available by any source other than the original and as such that was a sale lost by the originator. If it wasn't truly a deciding factor, the manufacturer should have used a different and original graphic.
A big part of what we do as builders is design graphics. If you lack the capacity as a builder to design them, you shouldn't be able to sell them. You should have to pay someone who can design them or find some other solution, such as to sell all white boats. Imagine how much more impact companies that have good looking original graphics would have if they couldn't be copied by knock-off artists? How much value are these companies taking away from originators by being able to blatently copy graphics? How easily would you be able to tell the difference between the cheaper boats and the good ones?
Time will tell. Cocky? Maybe. I prefer to be considered well informed, and prepared for the battles ahead. Construe that how you want to.
Christs sake, way too much info buddy! NSF

little rowe boat
08-18-2005, 09:34 AM
I am not sure how much Howard is getting for the boat at this point, I think $100K with a 496. I would be willing to bet it will run over 70 mph with a 496 no problem!
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db3m.JPG
This pic doesn't make it look very roomy.

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 09:36 AM
On the flip side of it all... the boat looks bad ass, and those are some really big numbers.
Congrats to Gene and Mike.

Not So Fast
08-18-2005, 09:40 AM
Quoting yourself lends credibility to your posts. :D
HUH??? is that good or bad :idea: NSF

Not So Fast
08-18-2005, 09:42 AM
It's good. I do it all the time. Not only does it increase your post count, but it looks like somebody is agreeing with you. :D
Now that I agree with :) NSF

Deano
08-18-2005, 09:51 AM
I keep looking for similarities on the two gels and I really dont see em. other than the two lines on a 45deg angle going forward but..danas are swooping and howards are straight. those are completely different designs. that shit would not hold up even if they were copyrighted.

SummitKarl
08-18-2005, 09:53 AM
ATK I know you did commercial buildings, so you above all should be familar with the "ROCKWELL" case = only so many ways to build a fence, I run into this all the time....someone steals my plans from the building site, and the next thing you know another builder is offering their version of MY PLANS!!! :hammer2: and there is nothing I can do about it, unless I protected it by makeing it a LHC standard plan, and that protection is only good within the city limits.
All this used to Tick me off, till I realized that I am the one leading the way here, and it's my tallent that sets me apart from the others. don't let this one time get to you, (it ain't worth the stress) let this motovate you to the next level of your tallent, and yes!!! the others will follow again, this is how good a reputation is built, (immatation most sincer form of flattery) do your thing your way the best that you can, THATS WHAT MAKES A INDUSTRY LEADER
obviously Howard boats likes your graphics skill, I would be asking them for a job with a nice signing bonus :wink:

WYRD
08-18-2005, 10:04 AM
ATK I know you did commercial buildings, so you above all should be familar with the "ROCKWELL" case = only so many ways to build a fence, I run into this all the time....someone steals my plans from the building site, and the next thing you know another builder is offering their version of MY PLANS!!! :hammer2: and there is nothing I can do about it, unless I protected it by makeing it a LHC standard plan, and that protection is only good within the city limits.
All this used to Tick me off, till I realized that I am the one leading the way here, and it's my tallent that sets me apart from the others. don't let this one time get to you, (it ain't worth the stress) let this motovate you to the next level of your tallent, and yes!!! the others will follow again, this is how good a reputation is built, (immatation most sincer form of flattery) do your thing your way the best that you can, THATS WHAT MAKES A INDUSTRY LEADER
obviously Howard boats likes your graphics skill, I would be asking them for a job with a nice signing bonus :wink:
Very nicely put Karl.

SDLifesaver
08-18-2005, 10:10 AM
Regardless of any assumed splash, what an awesome looking ride. I just wish someone would buy ours so we could at least consider buying one off those. Hats off to Howard once again. Nick

atomickitn
08-18-2005, 10:26 AM
ATK I know you did commercial buildings, so you above all should be familar with the "ROCKWELL" case = only so many ways to build a fence, I run into this all the time....someone steals my plans from the building site, and the next thing you know another builder is offering their version of MY PLANS!!! :hammer2: and there is nothing I can do about it, unless I protected it by makeing it a LHC standard plan, and that protection is only good within the city limits.
All this used to Tick me off, till I realized that I am the one leading the way here, and it's my tallent that sets me apart from the others. don't let this one time get to you, (it ain't worth the stress) let this motovate you to the next level of your tallent, and yes!!! the others will follow again, this is how good a reputation is built, (immatation most sincer form of flattery) do your thing your way the best that you can, THATS WHAT MAKES A INDUSTRY LEADER
obviously Howard boats likes your graphics skill, I would be asking them for a job with a nice signing bonus :wink:thanks for the words of wisdome, i was'nt trying to to make a big deal of this ,but it just realy bugged me to think that with the very first one out of the mold they would have done something origianal, since they are one of the top builders. then for someone to say the the design's look nothing like each other, is just .......well you know what im saying , we at dana boats are trying very hard to get are rep, back to where it once was, and trying very hard to not duplicate anybody else's stuff, because of stuff like this, i will say that soo many people like what they see and ask to duplicate it , from one shop to another.. I am very flattered to know where this design came from , my thoughts, my insperition, and yes my head... soo thanks for the comments, and i will continue to work harder to make are boats as beautiful as the next ,or better. sory to piss anybody off........ B

Cole Trickle
08-18-2005, 10:27 AM
The boat and graphics look great. :)
For the price I think I would still be looking at the E Ticket.

Havasu_Dreamin
08-18-2005, 11:54 AM
thanks for the words of wisdome, i was'nt trying to to make a big deal of this ,but it just realy bugged me to think that with the very first one out of the mold they would have done something origianal, since they are one of the top builders. then for someone to say the the design's look nothing like each other, is just .......well you know what im saying , we at dana boats are trying very hard to get are rep, back to where it once was, and trying very hard to not duplicate anybody else's stuff, because of stuff like this, i will say that soo many people like what they see and ask to duplicate it , from one shop to another.. I am very flattered to know where this design came from , my thoughts, my insperition, and yes my head... soo thanks for the comments, and i will continue to work harder to make are boats as beautiful as the next ,or better. sory to piss anybody off........ B
Guess I'll take Jordy's title and stir the pot a little here, the boat that you posted, the Dana, when did that pop from the mold? Just curious as to when both boats popped in relation to each other.

laveydayz
08-18-2005, 11:59 AM
thanks for the words of wisdome, i was'nt trying to to make a big deal of this ,but it just realy bugged me to think that with the very first one out of the mold they would have done something origianal, since they are one of the top builders. then for someone to say the the design's look nothing like each other, is just .......well you know what im saying , we at dana boats are trying very hard to get are rep, back to where it once was, and trying very hard to not duplicate anybody else's stuff, because of stuff like this, i will say that soo many people like what they see and ask to duplicate it , from one shop to another.. I am very flattered to know where this design came from , my thoughts, my insperition, and yes my head... soo thanks for the comments, and i will continue to work harder to make are boats as beautiful as the next ,or better. sory to piss anybody off........ B
Well regardless of who designed what graphic and evrything else the boat looks bitchin!!! Atomic kitten your Dana looks awesome as well. I really like those color combos....

atomickitn
08-18-2005, 12:05 PM
Guess I'll take Jordy's title and stir the pot a little here, the boat that you posted, the Dana, when did that pop from the mold? Just curious as to when both boats popped in relation to each other.
jan 05 to be ready for the 05 la boat show, in fact i built 2 one as a 27 and one as a23 at the same time the 23 was at the show

atomickitn
08-18-2005, 12:08 PM
Well regardless of who designed what graphic and evrything else the boat looks bitchin!!! Atomic kitten your Dana looks awesome as well. I really like those color combos....
thanks, ive done several boats with thouse colors , seems that it's apopular combo, and they do look great together.....

HOOTER SLED-
08-18-2005, 12:11 PM
Bobby, your such a trendsetter. :D

Havasu_Dreamin
08-18-2005, 12:13 PM
jan 05 to be ready for the 05 la boat show, in fact i built 2 one as a 27 and one as a23 at the same time the 23 was at the show
Sounds good.

atomickitn
08-18-2005, 12:32 PM
Bobby, your such a trendsetter. :D
thats because you inspire me.............you better be at myshop by 5;30 fri or im leaving with out you ..... be atch :D

djunkie
08-18-2005, 12:58 PM
So let me get this straight everybody. If and when I order a new boat, if my graphics are similar to someones elses (unknowingly) I can be sued. This is a phuckin joke. I think I'm gonna sue everyone thought bought the same color truck as mine after I did cause they copied me. Well I guess my next boat will be all white. Ahhh shit thats already been done. Can they just not gel coat it and leave it raw fiberglass? :confused: :D

MOBrien
08-18-2005, 01:31 PM
This Howard decker looks sweet IMO. But it really does look like the Magic 28' deck dwarfs it. They're both really 28'ers? :hammerhea :confused:

Ivan Dan
08-18-2005, 01:41 PM
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. And I saved a lot of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico
:2purples: :crossx: :D

Ultracrazy
08-18-2005, 03:51 PM
GT comes on here showing off a nice product.......then the sharks come out........nice. Typical Sanbar.....
Nice boat GT....... :cool:

phuggit
08-18-2005, 03:58 PM
No, and the key is that someone would have to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you did it intentionally, with full knowledge of what you were doing. It would also have to be generally accepted practice in the industry to do a trademark and copyright search before you gelled a boat, which it is not.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. The boat builder would basically have to sign an affadavit saying he ripped off the gel coat scheme with full knowledge that it was copyrighted.
And the cost of doing a copyright search would be passed on to the purchaser, i.e. you and me.

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 04:15 PM
And the cost of doing a copyright search would be passed on to the purchaser, i.e. you and me.
Why not? I paid it to make sure mine wasn't taken. It cost me money.
You guys are missing the point. It is illegal to copy others designs without compensation. That it is commonplace is irrelevant.
I had several iterations of my logo shot down because after doing a trademark search I had found prior use of similar marks. I came up with those in the privacy of my own home, with no influence by the originators. This doesn't matter. I changed my logo until I found one that was not protected, and was in no danger of being infringement.
I have spent thousands of dollars researching and verifying that my graphics are original. I have protected them, and plan on aggressively pursuing litigation against those who steal them. They are mine. This level of scrutiny was important to me, and those who don't understand probably are not trying to make money off of their artistry and creativity.
I have been relatively consistent with my disdain for splashing of graphics. It cheapens the original, and reduces the perceived value of a product. "Shadow" on the forums has a graphic that he and I drew over the course of many hours and a slice or two of pizza. That graphic got directly splashed by seven boat builders that we know of. It was not particularly unique however, flames and checkers, and though remarkable, it was a shared creativity and certainly not worth pursuing for me.
Mine is a different story. I had IP protection before I showed the public, and I paid a lot of money for it.
My boat aside, I agree with the sentiment that the boat looks very nice, (just like the Dana did before it) and that the thread should not be hijacked.

Ultracrazy
08-18-2005, 04:22 PM
Nice boat GT

slink
08-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Why not? I paid it to make sure mine wasn't taken. It cost me money.
You guys are missing the point. It is illegal to copy others designs without compensation. That it is commonplace is irrelevant.
I had several iterations of my logo shot down because after doing a trademark search I had found prior use of similar marks. I came up with those in the privacy of my own home, with no influence by the originators. This doesn't matter. I changed my logo until I found one that was not protected, and was in no danger of being infringement.
I have spent thousands of dollars researching and verifying that my graphics are original. I have protected them, and plan on aggressively pursuing litigation against those who steal them. They are mine. This level of scrutiny was important to me, and those who don't understand probably are not trying to make money off of their artistry and creativity.
I have been relatively consistent with my disdain for splashing of graphics. It cheapens the original, and reduces the perceived value of a product. "Shadow" on the forums has a graphic that he and I drew over the course of many hours and a slice or two of pizza. That graphic got directly splashed by seven boat builders that we know of. It was not particularly unique however, flames and checkers, and though remarkable, it was a shared creativity and certainly not worth pursuing for me.
Mine is a different story. I had IP protection before I showed the public, and I paid a lot of money for it.
My boat aside, I agree with the sentiment that the boat looks very nice, (just like the Dana did before it) and that the thread should not be hijacked.
Just out of curiosity, how many different "copyrighted" graphics do you have? and will these be the only graphics you offer? What happens if a customer brings you a design that is a "splash", will you still build him/her the boat even if there is a chance you'll be sued? just wondering if the coin has two sides

mbrown2
08-18-2005, 04:43 PM
The boat and graphics look great. :)
For the price I think I would still be looking at the E Ticket.
I would think about that a little harder....with a single 700 horsepower it appears the Howard is putting up numbers as good or better then the E Ticket 496 twin...for probably 20K less after all is said and done...
Then you have maintenance on twins
Then you have resale....I don't think the Eticket will hold anywhere near the resale the Howard will.
Personally, I would get a DCB deck first, but since they don't make them it would be a Howard for the reasons I just stated...Fast, Efficient, Great Design, Great Resale...
Magic would be last due to the customer service and quality horror stories I have read and witnessed..
Froggy's boat is an awesome boat and concept but until some time under it and the company's belt, it is an unknown which I am not willing to risk my investment. If others do and it flourishes, maybe my mind will change

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 04:49 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many different "copyrighted" graphics do you have? and will these be the only graphics you offer? What happens if a customer brings you a design that is a "splash", will you still build him/her the boat even if there is a chance you'll be sued? just wondering if the coin has two sides
I have two graphics copyrighted. Both are derivative of our trademark as well, which doubly protects them. These are the only graphics we will offer.
No, I will not put a splashed design on one of my boats. This is one of the reasons I don't want to build boats for individuals. Our marketing plan is to put them in dealerships, where people buy the boat they want, and take it home today. Saves a lot of BS that way. If I was to do a special graphic for someone, I would do a search for protection of the graphic and prior use first. The cost of the search would be turned over to the client, and the graphic would be theirs.

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 05:02 PM
Froggy's boat is an awesome boat and concept but until some time under it and the company's belt, it is an unknown which I am not willing to risk my investment. If others do and it flourishes, maybe my mind will change
That is certainly the sentiment right now, and I appreciate your consideration at all.
Next time you are down, come take a spin. The boat and the company are sound... you will see that when you look at both first hand.

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:02 PM
Personally, I would get a DCB deck first, but since they don't make them it would be a Howard for the reasons I just stated...Fast, Efficient, Great Design, Great Resale...
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db1m.JPG
If you square off the rear and fill that bow back in,Im picturing a Mach 26?The windshield area and lines look the same to me.Even the front of the sponsons look alot alike.Maybe thats why i like it? LOL :D

TPI
08-18-2005, 05:03 PM
I just got a chance to see this thread again...............Unbelievable. This thread is about a Howard Sportdeck design and performance..........................PERIOD. Sometimes I can understand bashing and hijacking, but this is truly pathetic. I know this customer personally wanted some swooping red lines that dissappear into the rub rail, and I also know that he wanted the boat mostly white with a subtle candy tangerine fade, with silver. IMO, Howard did the 100% right thing by giving him what he wanted. IF TRIDENT DOES NOT WANT TO DO BUSINESS THAT WAY, THAT IS UP TO TRIDENT. With over 15 years in the performance marine business I have never heard the term "splashing" referring to similar gel coat designs. "Splashing" has always refered to boat shape copy catting through changes in the design. For the people that actually have a positive attitude toward this thread, I am about to post more pics. This boat is Big, I mean Big!! I know it is bigger than a Magic, and probably bigger than a conquest. I am sorry the pics dont depict the actual size. Lastly, I am doing my best to share some data and info with some interested parties. The word sue does not belong anywhere in this thread. Enjoy the coming pics, and I hope this thing gets back on track.

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:05 PM
I have two graphics copyrighted. Both are derivative of our trademark as well, which doubly protects them. These are the only graphics we will offer.
No, I will not put a splashed design on one of my boats. This is one of the reasons I don't want to build boats for individuals. Our marketing plan is to put them in dealerships, where people buy the boat they want, and take it home today. Saves a lot of BS that way. If I was to do a special graphic for someone, I would do a search for protection of the graphic and prior use first. The cost of the search would be turned over to the client, and the graphic would be theirs.
You only have 2 different looks for the boat.Gel scheme wise?I thought you were building them custom to what the person wanted?

mbrown2
08-18-2005, 05:06 PM
If you square off the rear and fill that bow back in,Im picturing a Mach 26?The windshield area and lines look the same to me.Even the front of the sponsons look alot alike.Maybe thats why i like it? LOL :D
I posted the same thing the 1st time the pics of their deck out of the mold were put up....it really resembles a Mach in a non splash sort of way since it more resembles a Bullet. :)

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:08 PM
Gary,
I saw the boat and it didnt seem big at all to me.Actually smaller inside area than a Magic or conquest.I do like the boat,but it doesnt strike me as a deck boat.More of a cat with a large walk through open bow and rear access step,again myabe thats why I like it alot.Still has a performance cat appeal.

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:09 PM
I posted the same thing the 1st time the pics of their deck out of the mold were put up....it really resembles a Mach in a non splash sort of way since it more resembles a Bullet. :)
It does resemble a Mach and to me you cant go wrong there.

welk2party
08-18-2005, 05:13 PM
GT comes on here showing off a nice product.......then the sharks come out........nice. Typical Sanbar.....
Nice boat GT....... :cool:
No shiat! :argue:

TPI
08-18-2005, 05:15 PM
Gary,
I saw the boat and it didnt seem big at all to me.Actually smaller inside area than a Magic or conquest.I do like the boat,but it doesnt strike me as a deck boat.More of a cat with a large walk through open bow and rear access step,again myabe thats why I like it alot.Still has a performance cat appeal.
I am sure everyone will have their opinions on its size. I know when I park my 28 next to it, the deckboat looks quite a bit bigger. The public will decide I guess, thanks for the complements. I will pass on the info to the guys at Howard.

mbrown2
08-18-2005, 05:16 PM
That is certainly the sentiment right now, and I appreciate your consideration at all.
Next time you are down, come take a spin. The boat and the company are sound... you will see that when you look at both first hand.
When I am down in the area, I will definitely stop by and don't get me wrong; I am hoping for success for you guys....you guys are doing something that has never been done before and blazing new trails is never an easy thing...

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:20 PM
I am sure everyone will have their opinions on its size. I know when I park my 28 next to it, the deckboat looks quite a bit bigger. The public will decide I guess, thanks for the complements. I will pass on the info to the guys at Howard.
What size boat was it parked next to when you were at Garys yesterday?35 Cig? Even when I passed you guys on the way to Elsinore,the boat looked great.Meaning it didnt have a odd look or anything that stood out and caught my eye as funky.The design and lines looked like they were all in the correct place.The lines flowed well and the graphics and gel shined.

Kilrtoy
08-18-2005, 05:23 PM
As for price (may have changed), the last I heard was the HO version is around $105k-$110k. My guess on this one-- as it sits would be $140-$150k. s
Call me a tight azz, but 140 to 150 as it sits...
I would rather go with a conquest and a efi800 from anyone, you pick them and it would be 20 to 30k less than that .......
I know its a howard and it will be a top of the line quality boat boat... but that is just way too much....

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 05:27 PM
I just got a chance to see this thread again...............Unbelievable. This thread is about a Howard Sportdeck design and performance..........................PERIOD. Sometimes I can understand bashing and hijacking, but this is truly pathetic. I know this customer personally wanted some swooping red lines that dissappear into the rub rail, and I also know that he wanted the boat mostly white with a subtle candy tangerine fade, with silver. IMO, Howard did the 100% right thing by giving him what he wanted. IF TRIDENT DOES NOT WANT TO DO BUSINESS THAT WAY, THAT IS UP TO TRIDENT. With over 15 years in the performance marine business I have never heard the term "splashing" referring to similar gel coat designs. "Splashing" has always refered to boat shape copy catting through changes in the design. For the people that actually have a positive attitude toward this thread, I am about to post more pics. This boat is Big, I mean Big!! I know it is bigger than a Magic, and probably bigger than a conquest. I am sorry the pics dont depict the actual size. Lastly, I am doing my best to share some data and info with some interested parties. The word sue does not belong anywhere in this thread. Enjoy the coming pics, and I hope this thing gets back on track.
First off... I apologize to you for de-railing the thread. The boat looks great, like I have said, and puts up some big numbers. Kudos to all of you. The thread did go sideways, and I was only responding initially to the person that said his design was taken. I got defensive from there, as has been known to happen before.
With regard to calling it "splashing"... again, sorry. I will call it "stealing" from now on. It is a more appropriate term. Splashing just sounded nicer.

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 05:29 PM
Call me a tight azz, but 140 to 150 as it sits...
Hey tight azz...you paid more for your boat and its shorter...LOL

Kilrtoy
08-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Hey tight azz...you paid more for your boat and its shorter...LOL
YES , BUT its a DCB.......and I have two TURN KEY ENGINES....

fourspeednup
08-18-2005, 05:36 PM
Very nice looking boat there GT. I have been eagerly waiting for the 1st 28 deck to get wet and it sure looks sweet. The new bullet designs by Howard are very nice and much better IMO than the old A/O cat look. Any word on when the first closed deck 28' will be out?
BTW-this thread must be the reason most of your topics stay in the ***boats section que no? :D

JB in so cal
08-18-2005, 05:36 PM
YES , BUT its a DCB.......and I have two TURN KEY ENGINES....
So, you turn two keys? :idea:
Those DCB's are amazing.

slink
08-18-2005, 05:39 PM
YES , BUT its a DCB.......and I have two TURN KEY ENGINES....
and they threw in a hat and a cool aid cup :p

Essex502
08-18-2005, 05:44 PM
I can say from first hand experience that Mike Willen and the customer worked on the design for better than 4 hours in the initial session to get the look. Yes it is similar to others but many are. I watch them sketch ideas on the computer screen and then erase all of it and start over. I watched the gel scheme EVOLVE to the look that it has. Copied? I certainly did NOT witness any. No open magazines. No snapshots of other boats. Nothing of the sort.
For other views I took some pics during the construction of the Howard Deck Boat:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1404Deckboat_pop_20_sm.jpg
and another
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1404Deckboat_pop_19_sm.jpg

Kilrtoy
08-18-2005, 05:50 PM
I can say from first hand experience that Mike Willen and the customer worked on the design for better than 4 hours in the initial session to get the look.
I don't believe that, he actually talked to someone that was a perspective buyer, they must have been white.... :idea:

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 06:05 PM
I thought you were building them custom to what the person wanted?
Never have been. After years of research, I built what I thought was the very best combination of equipment, rigging and construction and created a system that I thought was the highest value to the end clients. I knew there would be no options short of some colors and bimini stuff. There is one motor... the best. One drive... the best etc... I would be pleased as punch to never have to sell a boat to an end user. The dealership network we are building is FAR better suited to taking care of a client than I am as a builder. Plus, it allows me to reach a lot further geographically.
It is a theory that works. It works for every high end manufacturer in nearly every facet of our purchasing. We don't ask Ferrari for custom stuff, or Ducati, or Cadillac, BMW, etc... They build a great system, and if you like it more than all of the others, you buy it.
If I was to build the Revolution like everyone else does, it would cost $250,000. My deletion of "options" by inclusion builds a much better stock boat than most full customs, and for far less expense.
I don't know of anyone that would rather wait 3-6 months for a "custom" boat when one that meets every one of their needs is sitting in a showroom waiting to be brought home. Perfect color and everything.

TPI
08-18-2005, 06:19 PM
First off... I apologize to you for de-railing the thread. The boat looks great, like I have said, and puts up some big numbers. Kudos to all of you. The thread did go sideways, and I was only responding initially to the person that said his design was taken. I got defensive from there, as has been known to happen before.
With regard to calling it "splashing"... again, sorry. I will call it "stealing" from now on. It is a more appropriate term. Splashing just sounded nicer.
You can call it whatever you want. It is your opinion. I agree it does look similar. Just as your boat graphics have a tribal design that resembles 500+ boats that have been at Havasu this year. I dont think anyone would say you splashed, stole, or copied anything. Especially on your first thread showing off your product. This graphic thing is obviously like beating a dead horse. Everyone has an opinion.........................I have a few more pics I am trying to post, its just taking a while.

TPI
08-18-2005, 06:24 PM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db9.JPG

Froggystyle
08-18-2005, 06:32 PM
You can call it whatever you want. It is your opinion. I agree it does look similar. Just as your boat graphics have a tribal design that resembles 500+ boats that have been at Havasu this year. I dont think anyone would say you splashed, stole, or copied anything. Especially on your first thread showing off your product. This graphic thing is obviously like beating a dead horse. Everyone has an opinion.........................I have a few more pics I am trying to post, its just taking a while.
No, I was just told it looked like a Sea Doo!
It does look great, this is just a topic very close to home for me.

TPI
08-18-2005, 06:33 PM
Sorry about the limited shots. We just wanted to snap a few while we were out there. I know the guys at Howard are working on a real nice set of photos of the boat with the blender, ice chest, table, sink, blah blah blah. It does come with all that cool stuff too. There are also different interior configurations available. This one has 2 buckets and a wrap around bench in the cockpit. Thats pretty much it for me on this, unless I come across some new pics or we run the thing hard with a lab prop. Enjoy
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db6.JPG

TPI
08-18-2005, 06:35 PM
No, I was just told it looked like a Sea Doo!
It does look great, this is just a topic very close to home for me.
I would never say such a thing personally. I wish you success, you obviously have quite a bit of R&D in your business. Seriously, Good Luck
Gary Taylor

Ultracrazy
08-18-2005, 06:39 PM
Like I said earlier........nice boat.
Sharks will be sharks.......but I must say......my opinion has changed by what was said be a few people in here.......not that would matter.....but word of mouth is priceless.
Good luck GT.....great looking boat.
UC

Goodtime$
08-18-2005, 07:27 PM
buy it nice or buy it twice....bottom line is howard builds a beautiful boat...congrats and at 90mph hold onto your cocktails....cheers

Speedin' Ian
08-18-2005, 08:04 PM
Looks like howard hit a home run with this one. To me it comes across as a nice combination of deck boat and cat. A lot of the deckboats are great because they have a lot of room, but I have yet to see one that combines space and looks like this one.
In regards to the price I think all custom boats are rediculous, but this one seems to be in line with all the others, meaning it is not overpriced for the market. I am sure that when and if DCB designs a deckboat it will be more exspensive than the Howard, and what does that get you, a comprable boat and kool-aid :confused: .

mbrown2
08-18-2005, 08:16 PM
I am sure that when and if DCB designs a deckboat it will be more exspensive than the Howard, and what does that get you, a comprable boat and kool-aid :confused: .
Go cat shopping with a check in one hand and spec sheet in the other; compare apples to apples and educate yourself on pricing ....I did twice and that's no Eliminator or Force in the pic below :):):)
And free t-shirts.
What no free shirts for you? I knew Carter was running a sham operation down there... :hammer2: :wink:

Kilrtoy
08-18-2005, 08:31 PM
Go cat shopping with a check in one hand and spec sheet in the other;:
Damn , I took my wife....

CornWater
08-18-2005, 08:42 PM
I can't wait for someone to industry standard my designs.
I think I will buy a Ferrari the first time... I don't know what I will buy if it happens again. Maybe a house...
Froggy... I think you have an awesome product, and a very healthy competitive attitude when it comes to performance boats, but this posts seems to smack of arrogance to me. I have always thought of you as confident, not arrogant. :confused:

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 08:53 PM
Like I said earlier........nice boat.
Sharks will be sharks.......but I must say......my opinion has changed by what was said be a few people in here.......not that would matter.....but word of mouth is priceless.
Good luck GT.....great looking boat.
UC
Im curious as to what you are talking about here.Send me a pm to explain if you would like to?Im lost on what you said.

King of Kings
08-18-2005, 09:04 PM
First off... I apologize to you for de-railing the thread. The boat looks great, like I have said, and puts up some big numbers. Kudos to all of you. The thread did go sideways, and I was only responding initially to the person that said his design was taken. I got defensive from there, as has been known to happen before.
With regard to calling it "splashing"... again, sorry. I will call it "stealing" from now on. It is a more appropriate term. Splashing just sounded nicer.
Stealing???
You are silly! Do you really think people will buy a boat from you? Read yourself!
This is my first time and probably last time here. I stop in and read every so often, but this is too funny!!
I wanted that design.. I never saw that dana and to be honest that is not a boat i would want to copy. I was worried more about looking too similar to a dcb i really liked. it also looks more like a magic i saw...is that where dana got there idea??
you still built a deck boat.....did you create the first? Who are you "stealing from?"
re size---it's bigger.
re price----if your concerned don't bother.. buy a magic you can have it this week.
we all have diff. reasons why we like what we have or want to have, speed, size, price. who cares....
But for froggy i wish you the best, but as of now there are a few quality builders out there Howard, DCB, E-ticket ect......do you really think you are in the same conversations???
you should relax!!!!
go boating or something!

phebus
08-18-2005, 09:13 PM
King of Kings, please do stop in again. I think you will be surprised at what Froggy and his Trident will do in the boating market, as well as the changes it brings to the boating industry.
I only wish I could have been one of the original investors in his business venture!!

Essex29
08-18-2005, 09:15 PM
anybody have the popcorn picture handy ? :D

TPI
08-18-2005, 09:26 PM
Well now.........................................This thread should really take off now............................................... .......

Kilrtoy
08-18-2005, 09:26 PM
anybody have the popcorn picture handy ? :D
No can you pass it when you get it...

King of Kings
08-18-2005, 09:37 PM
King of Kings, please do stop in again. I think you will be surprised at what Froggy and his Trident will do in the boating market, as well as the changes it brings to the boating industry.
I only wish I could have been one of the original investors in his business venture!!
it will be nice to see it tested with others. but i think its a little early, he should show more, type less.
respect is earned.
i wish him the best.

SummitKarl
08-18-2005, 09:42 PM
hey...................my popcorn is getting cold here!!!!!!!!!!

phebus
08-18-2005, 09:49 PM
I think that one of the things that make the Howard look smaller is the real clean deck profile, without railings, raised upholstery, etc.
Really clean look, resembling a closed deck cat from the side, rather than a deck boat. Dynamite profile.....

single barrel
08-18-2005, 10:25 PM
First off, engine looks great Gary, good job. The boat also looks great. Who cares if the graphics look sort of like another boat, no big deal.
Now, Froggy, would you just shut up and actually build something instead of always turning a thread that doesn't have anything to do with you or your company into a "I'm the smartest and best" thread. Do you really think that you would win a suit against say ... Fountain, if they were to have a customer bring them a drawing to do graphics like yours? You don't even exist in the boating world. You MIGHT someday, but to date, you are nothing. You always come on here bashing every manufacturer that actually has boats on the water, but you have nothing to show besides a 3/4 finished project boat. Until you actually get some boats out there and become a player, stop running your mouth, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's sick of it.

Jrocket
08-18-2005, 10:50 PM
First off, engine looks great Gary, good job. The boat also looks great. Who cares if the graphics look sort of like another boat, no big deal.
Now, Froggy, would you just shut up and actually build something instead of always turning a thread that doesn't have anything to do with you or your company into a "I'm the smartest and best" thread. Do you really think that you would win a suit against say ... Fountain, if they were to have a customer bring them a drawing to do graphics like yours? You don't even exist in the boating world. You MIGHT someday, but to date, you are nothing. You always come on here bashing every manufacturer that actually has boats on the water, but you have nothing to show besides a 3/4 finished project boat. Until you actually get some boats out there and become a player, stop running your mouth, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's sick of it.
Well I think thats out in the open now.

plaster dave
08-18-2005, 10:58 PM
First off, engine looks great Gary, good job. The boat also looks great. Who cares if the graphics look sort of like another boat, no big deal.
Now, Froggy, would you just shut up and actually build something instead of always turning a thread that doesn't have anything to do with you or your company into a "I'm the smartest and best" thread. Do you really think that you would win a suit against say ... Fountain, if they were to have a customer bring them a drawing to do graphics like yours? You don't even exist in the boating world. You MIGHT someday, but to date, you are nothing. You always come on here bashing every manufacturer that actually has boats on the water, but you have nothing to show besides a 3/4 finished project boat. Until you actually get some boats out there and become a player, stop running your mouth, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's sick of it.
AMEN BROTHER.
Congrats Mike and Gene.

djunkie
08-19-2005, 01:55 AM
Wow I go to work for a few hours and come home to this. I can't believe the way some people think. I think Howard did a great job of building their version of a deck boat. Just because it doesn't look like a Conquest or a Magic does not mean it isn't a deck boat. This is what they saw as a deck boat and they built it. I'm sure this is going to be a big seller and and even better performer if it is anything like the other boats they build.
Gary forget about the haters. That is a beautiful boat and I bet it performs great with your motor in it. Keeps the pics coming, I can't wait to see more.

mbrown2
08-19-2005, 07:40 AM
King of Kings, please do stop in again. I think you will be surprised at what Froggy and his Trident will do in the boating market, as well as the changes it brings to the boating industry.
I only wish I could have been one of the original investors in his business venture!!
Ok; nothing against Froggy's boat since it has blazed new trails and will be successful as a NICHE market boat; but what do you consider an investment?
Put the money in 3-4 years ago and still not have a boat in production in the hands of a customer meaning my dividends have not been paid? If you are doing it because it is a vision and love with long term growth possibilty; maybe I can see it....but I don't see the custom boat bus as a serious investment; maybe one you do because you love....If I would have invested half a mil to mil in a start up 3-4 years ago, and NOT turned a significant profit, I would not call that an investment I wish I got in at the start.

dicudmore
08-19-2005, 07:41 AM
Gary the engine is just beautiful :D
I like the boat too...that's an awesome family cruiser :wink:

TPI
08-19-2005, 08:08 AM
Gary the engine is just beautiful :D
I like the boat too...that's an awesome family cruiser :wink:
Thanks,
I have been getting quite a few calls on it. It really does work well. I have one here all machined and ready to go, I just need to assemble it. To keep things back on track..............I think the next Sportdeck will be getting a 496 or a 525. That will give a great comparison to consumers.............I think. But this particular Sportdeck on this thread is a really nice handling boat, all around. If I never would have driven a 28 Bullet..........this would be my new boat.

MOBrien
08-19-2005, 08:10 AM
This thread is about someone being prideful with their product and their accomplishment. And a damn nice boat they've come up with I must say!! It is NOT a thread asking for comparisons or opinions. Haters & naysayers should start their own thread instead of hijacking this one, bursting bubbles, and biatching.
Congrats to Howard and GT. It's a beautiful shape and I love the gel. Good stuff!
Oh yea, and the motor is ok I guess.....if you like that kinda thing. :D :D bitchen.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db9.JPG

little rowe boat
08-19-2005, 08:14 AM
Hey GT, how about some pics of the interior.

Jordy
08-19-2005, 08:18 AM
anybody have the popcorn picture handy ? :D
You mean this one? It's a fresh batch too!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/23popcorn.jpg
:D :D :D

mbrown2
08-19-2005, 08:38 AM
Hey GT, how about some pics of the interior.
Ditto, I would like to see the wrap around in back...Also, does it have snap in carpet or just all fiberglass.

TPI
08-19-2005, 08:52 AM
Guys,
The interior shots will have to wait because I do not have any. Howard is putting all of the finishing touches on the interior and placing all of the "cool" items appropriately(Thats not my deal, I hate interior stuff) But as soon as I have some, I will post them immediately.

BLOWN HOWARD
08-19-2005, 09:12 AM
YES , BUT its a DCB.......and I have two TURN KEY ENGINES....
And you have twice the maintance!!!!!!!!!!!

BLOWN HOWARD
08-19-2005, 09:18 AM
Gary keep the pics coming looks awsome. Cant wait to see it at the river!!!!

Kilrtoy
08-19-2005, 10:04 AM
And you have twice the maintance!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, I have alot less maintenence than a 496 or a hp 500

Froggystyle
08-19-2005, 10:26 AM
Froggy... I think you have an awesome product, and a very healthy competitive attitude when it comes to performance boats, but this posts seems to smack of arrogance to me. I have always thought of you as confident, not arrogant. :confused:
Well, that certainly is appreciated. I think Gary knows how I feel about his part of the job. Big numbers, beautiful engine.
I could have chosen a few words more carefully to be sure, but such is life. It is the internet after all. I think anyone who has been on here long enough to remember me before I was a boat builder will remember my exact same response to similar problems. I haven't changed my outlook, and it is difficult to balance being a normal member of the community here and a builder. Again, such is life. I have found that while polarizing, expressing your opinion openly and without sitting on a fence does two things. It pisses off some people to where they hate you, and allows like-minded people to feel more confortable with dealing with you, as they are clear where you stand. If you are a big supporter of using other people's graphics in your gelcoat, I will probably not be selling you a boat anyway. I don't think that anyone who is all pissy about me backing up Atomickitn in this instance is someone who I would want to deal with anyway. As for reaction to my specific statements, well, they are two of 5700 or so posts. People with more than two posts can learn to get over it and refer to the larger volume of posts for a character assumption. Being cute sometimes is misread, and for that I apologize. Not intentional, and those who read other posts by any one of 100 people on this subject will have more to base these comments on and can better put in them in context. Tragically, this all happenned on a thread about a new boat by a top company, and it should have happenned elsewhere. As I have stated in more than a few PM's, I was responding to an allegation by a person who drew the very similar graphic months earlier for a different company. Look back at the Frenchie's new boat thread. I called him out on the Ultra splash. This is normal for me. I am not a fan of the "imitation/flattery" mentality. That phrase was coined by someone who liked copying others I think.
Regarding whether or not my boat will cut the mustard against the well-established boats currently on the water... lets just say I am greatly looking forward to the performance evaluations this year.
Sorry to those who deserve apologies, build a bridge to those who don't.
Wes

WYRD
08-19-2005, 10:49 AM
Well, that certainly is appreciated. I think Gary knows how I feel about his part of the job. Big numbers, beautiful engine.
I could have chosen a few words more carefully to be sure, but such is life. It is the internet after all. I think anyone who has been on here long enough to remember me before I was a boat builder will remember my exact same response to similar problems. I haven't changed my outlook, and it is difficult to balance being a normal member of the community here and a builder. Again, such is life. I have found that while polarizing, expressing your opinion openly and without sitting on a fence does two things. It pisses off some people to where they hate you, and allows like-minded people to feel more confortable with dealing with you, as they are clear where you stand. If you are a big supporter of using other people's graphics in your gelcoat, I will probably not be selling you a boat anyway. I don't think that anyone who is all pissy about me backing up Atomickitn in this instance is someone who I would want to deal with anyway. As for reaction to my specific statements, well, they are two of 5700 or so posts. People with more than two posts can learn to get over it and refer to the larger volume of posts for a character assumption. Being cute sometimes is misread, and for that I apologize. Not intentional, and those who read other posts by any one of 100 people on this subject will have more to base these comments on and can better put in them in context. Tragically, this all happenned on a thread about a new boat by a top company, and it should have happenned elsewhere. As I have stated in more than a few PM's, I was responding to an allegation by a person who drew the very similar graphic months earlier for a different company. Look back at the Frenchie's new boat thread. I called him out on the Ultra splash. This is normal for me. I am not a fan of the "imitation/flattery" mentality. That phrase was coined by someone who liked copying others I think.
Regarding whether or not my boat will cut the mustard against the well-established boats currently on the water... lets just say I am greatly looking forward to the performance evaluations this year.
Sorry to those who deserve apologies, build a bridge to those who don't.
Wes
Well put Wes!

BLOWN HOWARD
08-19-2005, 10:52 AM
Actually, I have alot less maintenence than a 496 or a hp 500
Who is running those little motor's these days in 100,000+ boats.

RP1
08-19-2005, 11:48 AM
Ok; nothing against Froggy's boat since it has blazed new trails and will be successful as a NICHE market boat; but what do you consider an investment?
Put the money in 3-4 years ago and still not have a boat in production in the hands of a customer meaning my dividends have not been paid? If you are doing it because it is a vision and love with long term growth possibilty; maybe I can see it....but I don't see the custom boat bus as a serious investment; maybe one you do because you love....If I would have invested half a mil to mil in a start up 3-4 years ago, and NOT turned a significant profit, I would not call that an investment I wish I got in at the start.
Well put... from the "investment" standpoint.

XFactor
08-19-2005, 01:14 PM
First off, engine looks great Gary, good job. The boat also looks great. Who cares if the graphics look sort of like another boat, no big deal.
Now, Froggy, would you just shut up and actually build something instead of always turning a thread that doesn't have anything to do with you or your company into a "I'm the smartest and best" thread. Do you really think that you would win a suit against say ... Fountain, if they were to have a customer bring them a drawing to do graphics like yours? You don't even exist in the boating world. You MIGHT someday, but to date, you are nothing. You always come on here bashing every manufacturer that actually has boats on the water, but you have nothing to show besides a 3/4 finished project boat. Until you actually get some boats out there and become a player, stop running your mouth, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's sick of it.
I've been lurking and waiting for 2 years for someone to say what needed to be said. THANK YOU Single Barrel!!!
Froggy,
Come back when you have something other than an oversized and overpriced partially completed Seadoo replication to brag about.

little rowe boat
08-19-2005, 01:25 PM
Well, that certainly is appreciated. I think Gary knows how I feel about his part of the job. Big numbers, beautiful engine.
I could have chosen a few words more carefully to be sure, but such is life. It is the internet after all. I think anyone who has been on here long enough to remember me before I was a boat builder will remember my exact same response to similar problems. I haven't changed my outlook, and it is difficult to balance being a normal member of the community here and a builder. Again, such is life. I have found that while polarizing, expressing your opinion openly and without sitting on a fence does two things. It pisses off some people to where they hate you, and allows like-minded people to feel more confortable with dealing with you, as they are clear where you stand. If you are a big supporter of using other people's graphics in your gelcoat, I will probably not be selling you a boat anyway. I don't think that anyone who is all pissy about me backing up Atomickitn in this instance is someone who I would want to deal with anyway. As for reaction to my specific statements, well, they are two of 5700 or so posts. People with more than two posts can learn to get over it and refer to the larger volume of posts for a character assumption. Being cute sometimes is misread, and for that I apologize. Not intentional, and those who read other posts by any one of 100 people on this subject will have more to base these comments on and can better put in them in context. Tragically, this all happenned on a thread about a new boat by a top company, and it should have happenned elsewhere. As I have stated in more than a few PM's, I was responding to an allegation by a person who drew the very similar graphic months earlier for a different company. Look back at the Frenchie's new boat thread. I called him out on the Ultra splash. This is normal for me. I am not a fan of the "imitation/flattery" mentality. That phrase was coined by someone who liked copying others I think.
Regarding whether or not my boat will cut the mustard against the well-established boats currently on the water... lets just say I am greatly looking forward to the performance evaluations this year.
Sorry to those who deserve apologies, build a bridge to those who don't.
Wes
I think the point here is this thread is NOT about your opinion,it's about the Howard deck boat. If you want to start a thread about copy right infringement or splashing do it. Be lieve me people will read it,I sure will. Other than that, lets keep this thread about the Howard deck boat.

Deano
08-19-2005, 01:37 PM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db6.JPG
I cant stop looking at it....this thing is beautiful, and numbers to boot. :)

SummitKarl
08-19-2005, 01:41 PM
You mean this one? It's a fresh batch too!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/23popcorn.jpg
:D :D :D
ahh thanks Jordy mine was getting a bit stale from last night
YUM good batch thanks

RP1
08-19-2005, 01:45 PM
I think the point here is this thread is NOT about your opinion,it's about the Howard deck boat. If you want to start a thread about copy right infringement or splashing do it. Be lieve me people will read it,I sure will. Other than that, lets keep this thread about the Howard deck boat.
I think it's too hard for narcissistic people to resist making things about themselves whenever possible. Forget the fact that these people (Howard) have actually produced a great boat that they can be proud of.

Essex29
08-19-2005, 01:49 PM
You mean this one? It's a fresh batch too!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/23popcorn.jpg
:D :D :D
it's about time....where were you yesterday ;)

Froggystyle
08-19-2005, 02:00 PM
You guys kill me...
I love this place.
Boat #2 is going to be finished and in a dealership shortly. #3 gets shot this month.
Enjoy your fun folks.

Froggystyle
08-19-2005, 02:00 PM
I've been lurking and waiting for 2 years for someone to say what needed to be said. THANK YOU Single Barrel!!!
Froggy,
Come back when you have something other than an oversized and overpriced partially completed Seadoo replication to brag about.
Anytime you would like a test ride, let me know.

JB in so cal
08-19-2005, 02:03 PM
I think he likes you, Froggy.

RP1
08-19-2005, 02:16 PM
You guys kill me...
I love this place.
Boat #2 is going to be finished and in a dealership shortly. #3 gets shot this month.
Enjoy your fun folks.
Idea: let it go, so that the original thread can be expressed about what a great boat Howard turned out.

Jrocket
08-19-2005, 02:17 PM
You guys kill me...
I love this place.
Boat #2 is going to be finished and in a dealership shortly. #3 gets shot this month.
Enjoy your fun folks.
What dealership?

Magic34
08-19-2005, 02:50 PM
How did Magic get thrown in this back on page 3 or was it 4?
I think the Howard looks great.
Gary,
If I would have seen that motor before building my boat this spring, I would have talked with you for sure. That motor looks awesome!!!

Ultracrazy
08-19-2005, 02:57 PM
This thread is about someone being prideful with their product and their accomplishment. And a damn nice boat they've come up with I must say!! It is NOT a thread asking for comparisons or opinions. Haters & naysayers should start their own thread instead of hijacking this one, bursting bubbles, and biatching.
Congrats to Howard and GT. It's a beautiful shape and I love the gel. Good stuff!
Oh yea, and the motor is ok I guess.....if you like that kinda thing. :D :D bitchen.
Amen.........

Essex29
08-19-2005, 03:03 PM
Anytime you would like a test ride, let me know.
I would love one! ;)

Ultracrazy
08-19-2005, 03:06 PM
"People with more than two posts can learn to get over it and refer to the larger volume of posts for a character assumption."
The more posts you have =Â’s the amount of credibility and character you possess? HmmmmmmmÂ…Â….

Ultracrazy
08-19-2005, 03:08 PM
Opps........sorry.......I shouldn't have posted.......I only have 302 post to my name.
:frown:

phebus
08-19-2005, 03:20 PM
Different boats for different folks. I personally welcome any new boats to the market, and look forward to seeing both the Howard, and the Trident. Innovation is good for the entire industry, and the buying public.

beyondhelpin
08-19-2005, 04:48 PM
GT
That boat looks sweet as does the motor. Looks like some serious numbers are going to be posted, turning 90s and not dialed in yet. Congrats to you and the guys at Howard.
As far as the splashing, stealing or what ever you call it.........I dont see it. Although there are some definite similarities.
Some of you guys need to remember something called trends! Should the first guy who did checkers on his boat be the only one to be able to use them? If he is then what about the guy who had them on his car first. Can he sue the guy with the boat with checkers? Hell what about flames or tribal flames? Can only one boat or vehicle use a color or color combination without being called a thief or implied that he is? Maybe my next design I do will just have pink elephants on it since everything else has be done?
Froggy
I have watched and followed you design with interest. You have mostly had my respect. What you are doing deserves it. Going out on your own into new territory is risky and rewarding. Me and another individualy designed a totaly new baby bottle. Although I dont still own the company you can still get them. As a matter of fact you could say that a lot of the sport bottles out there splashed my design. If you seen my patent you would know what I mean. Sorry now I am really moving off point. I tend to ramble. I guess that is why I mostly lurk!

TPI
08-19-2005, 08:12 PM
A few more straggler pics I had
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db5mm.JPG

Essex29
08-19-2005, 08:15 PM
Hey GT, what lake are these pics taken at?

TPI
08-19-2005, 08:19 PM
Lake Elsinore
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383tow2.JPG

BLOWN HOWARD
08-19-2005, 08:19 PM
I've been lurking and waiting for 2 years for someone to say what needed to be said. THANK YOU Single Barrel!!!
Froggy,
Come back when you have something other than an oversized and overpriced partially completed Seadoo replication to brag about.
Wouldnt that be sad to see your DCB getting whooped on by a deck boat that you are calling a sea-doo boat. I believe unless you have seen it in person and ridden in it, keep your mouth shut!!!! I dont see you building a boat!!!!!! Just supporting others!!!!

TPI
08-19-2005, 08:21 PM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383tow3.JPG

Jrocket
08-19-2005, 08:25 PM
Just supporting others!!!!
Did you build your own boat?

Jetboatguru
08-19-2005, 08:25 PM
Gary, certain people feel threatened by what you are doing. It is the classic Hater mentality. I appreciate the way you keep on track and don't contribute to the mudslinging. Hey Mistah, did the guy die?

Essex29
08-19-2005, 08:28 PM
Had to figure this would happen eventually with the D-Row guys taking this season off from smack talking :cool: :rollside: :p

lunchbox
08-19-2005, 08:29 PM
Hey Gary. looks good man. did you rig it? if you did, did you call in Marcos for help? j/k hope all is well in N.P. when are you gonna build a motor for our old Cole? keep up the good work. call me if you get out to phoenix.
Mikey Watts

Jrocket
08-19-2005, 08:31 PM
Had to figure this would happen eventually with the D-Row guys taking this season off from smack talking :cool: :rollside: :p
LMAO... :p

shadow
08-19-2005, 08:34 PM
A few more straggler pics I had
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db5mm.JPG
Thanks for the pics and updates.Very good looking boat and sounds like it runs as well.I'd be proud to own one. :smile:

Jordy
08-19-2005, 08:35 PM
I'd be proud to own one. :smile:
But would you have any friends??? :D

shadow
08-19-2005, 08:52 PM
But would you have any friends??? :D
You're stalking me Jordy!,I'd have you. :) With that badass Howard i could probablly find 1 or 2.

BLOWN HOWARD
08-19-2005, 09:12 PM
Did you build your own boat?
You see me ****ing with people that doo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Didnt think soo, shit i support anybody who wants to take on the boat market

TCHB
08-19-2005, 09:27 PM
I drove a Magic at Havasu on a normal saturday afternoon and was suprised by the rough ride. We were getting beat pretty good! Do you think this boat will ride any different than the Magics.

roln 20s
08-19-2005, 09:40 PM
Lake Elsinore
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383tow2.JPG
This is a nice pic to show some of the size compared to Mike's F350. Earlier people were thinking it was small compared to others, its huge but still carries those smooth Bullet looking lines. Just a beautiful boat, on and off the water :)
Can't wait to see the next one out of the mold.

ROZ
08-19-2005, 11:43 PM
And free t-shirts.
ANd 3 of them damn 12v sockets... :D
EDIT: Wanted to add that that Howard looks very nice and I'm glad to hear that you're happy with the results!

TPI
08-20-2005, 05:13 AM
FYI,
I did not rig this deckboat. The guys at Howard do a VERY nice job putting these together. I will post some pics of the new #2 deckboat that is out of the mold asap. It is kind of funny...............................just when I think this thread is back on track, it takes another turn. It definately makes me want to keep looking. :rolleyes:

little rowe boat
08-20-2005, 06:27 AM
GT. I know you said you are not into the interior part of the boat, but if you get a chance to take some pics and then postem that would be great. Many would love to see the size and layout of the interior.

dicudmore
08-20-2005, 06:58 AM
the lines on that are just beautiful, I want one :cool:

XFactor
08-20-2005, 07:16 AM
Wouldnt that be sad to see your DCB getting whooped on by a deck boat that you are calling a sea-doo boat. I believe unless you have seen it in person and ridden in it, keep your mouth shut!!!! I dont see you building a boat!!!!!! Just supporting others!!!!
BlownHoward,
I don't recall claiming my DCB was faster than the "seadoo" boat. I'm sure there are many deck boats out there that will put a whoppin on my boat. I've had conquest boats go by me on a few occasions. Your right, you don't see me building a boat, and if I did, which I wouldn't, I would let my product promote itself rather than tearing down my competition to boost my ego in an effort to promote my product.

Brian
08-20-2005, 07:20 AM
RE: size compared to Conquest, Magic, etc - I measured the Magic a while back and came up with 26' from the front of the sponson to the transom, and 28' to the back of the swim step (give or take a couple inches). If the Howard is 28.5' to the back of the swim deck, it would seem that it shares the same or similar bottom running surface with the 26 cat, which is yet another derivative of the same Talon bottom that we all know and love... So, the ride quality should be similar to all the other boats that share the bottom design, with the exception that this one is probably put together a bit better than the rest and therefore shouldn't suffer from some of the shaking and looseness that some of the others exhibit. Does anybody know if they actually changed the bottom to make it longer or deepen the tunnels? That would certainly make it ride better.
RE: thread jacking, come on, this is just another free advertising opportunity for Trident Boats! Oops, I'll probably get sued now for typing the name. :rolleyes: Maybe somebody needs to sue them for stealing the picklefork modified tunnel design! :boxingguy :D
Beautiful new Howard all the way around. I wish my engine compartment was that clean!
:cool:

Brian
08-20-2005, 07:21 AM
...I would let my product promote itself rather than tearing down my competition to boost my ego in an effort to promote my product.
Ding ding ding we have a winner!
:D

XFactor
08-20-2005, 07:36 AM
RE: thread jacking, come on, this is just another free advertising opportunity for Trident Boats! Oops, I'll probably get sued now for typing the name. :rolleyes: Maybe somebody needs to sue them for stealing the picklefork modified tunnel design! :boxingguy :D
Your right. SORRY!
This Howard is another example of their dedication to quality. I had the opportunity to see this boat during the design stage. The final product looks awesome. NICE BOAT!!

BLOWN HOWARD
08-20-2005, 08:58 AM
Time to get the thread back on track. Hey Gary lets see some more pics maybe of the interior. If need be somebody start another thread to keep the other off topic post going.

sleekcraft137
08-20-2005, 10:21 AM
you start it blowinghard

BLOWN HOWARD
08-20-2005, 10:24 AM
:sleeping: you start it blowinghard

TPI
08-20-2005, 11:06 AM
So I just got back from Howard. I was standing up getting ready to snap some cool digital pics of the Blue and grey #2 Sportdeck. Which BTW looks nothing like anything I have ever seen before, Its very conservative and clean. I turn on my camara and NO DIGITAL PHOTO CARD INSERTED! Thats right, I left it in the computer printer at home. Damn, I was going to take all kinds of shots too. Oh well. I will see if Mike can send me a couple? I wanted to roll a 28 Bullet next to it for a comparison. People are going to have to see these Sportdecks up close, I think. Also, I think the running surface of this boat is between 26'- 27'. There were bottom changes made, and it is very similar to their 26 Cat, but it is NOT the exact same bottom.

C-2
08-20-2005, 12:17 PM
Hey GT:
Where do you get those welded(?) valve covers, and is that oil cooler the heavy duty one from Trick?
That motor is just bad-ass looking.
Thanks,
PM if these are proprietary secrets!

TPI
08-20-2005, 01:34 PM
I get the valve covers raw from IMCO, and I have them CNC'd and polished. The large oil cooler is made back east. You can pick one up from GT Performance,Trick, Teague, etc.......They are the distributors. Thanks, the motor does run well and looks pretty nice.

Essex502
08-20-2005, 03:21 PM
yeah...the owner is a white guy...so what? :D
I don't believe that, he actually talked to someone that was a perspective buyer, they must have been white.... :idea:

TPI
08-20-2005, 04:51 PM
Here we go again........................................

INFINITEJJ
08-20-2005, 05:35 PM
You say "No... I will get sued."
There is a new sherriff in town. There will be a lot of education going on in the industry with regard to stealing graphics in the next few years. The 10% rule is imaginary. And if you don't think those two boats look nearly identical you need to get your eyes checked.
The shape of the orange, the shape of the red "claw" underneath, the line of the outline etc...
The good news for Howard is that the design is neither copyrighted or particularly original. Not to rain on Atomickitn's parade, but it looks very similar to a lot of stuff already on the market. There is NO QUESTION the Howard is derivative to say the least, and in my eyes it is a near direct splash. As it is "industry standard" there is a small likelihood of getting sued for it.
Mine has no less than 11 "features" that are protected. Shapes, proportions and weight of graphics play a role. The most important thing is what the overall appearance looks like. Mine doesn't look like anyones. It is in the shape of a Trident (trademarked) and is going to be on every boat. If someone hands a builder a picture of my boat, and says "I want it to look like this..." then it probably will. If it does, the first instance lawsuit is for $150,000 dollars plus you have to change the design. If you absolutely cannot sell a boat without my graphic, you can call and buy a liscense to use it. It will be an additional cost you need to turn over to your client, but if it is truly a no-go criteria, they should be willing to pay the person who designed it for the rights to use it.
I can't wait. This industry needs an enema.
I think your boats are great, But if you think you single handedly as a company are going to "educate" or "cleanse" the industry, YOUR FULL OF CRAP!
Copyright and protect everything you want Neptune's trident is NOT YOURS.
I can't wait??? Me too!

INFINITEJJ
08-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Oh yeah, JUST MY OPINION.

Havasu Hangin'
08-20-2005, 06:46 PM
This pic was taken last week before the boat was finished:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383sp4m.JPG
Very nice boat and motor!
But is that intake manifold a splash?
:jawdrop:

TPI
08-20-2005, 06:55 PM
HH,
I know you are joking, but I am going to respond anyway while I giggle. This is a Dart Manifold, that GT Performance has retrofitted to adapt to a GT performance throttle body. I am thinking DART is probably pretty happy as long as someone keeps buying there manifolds and retrofitting them and not copying them. This thread has taken on a life of it's own............................................... ................................................

Havasu Hangin'
08-20-2005, 07:00 PM
that GT Performance has retrofitted to adapt to a GT performance throttle body.
Oh man...wait til the team of GT Performance lawyers get ahold of this one! New fleet of Ferarris for the employees!
Just kidding!
Actually, last time I was there, there was a guy walking around with one of your shirts on...
To quote a famous philosopher, "Isn't it ironic..."
:D

TPI
08-20-2005, 07:32 PM
GT Performance stole my shirt design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so pissed!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, the cool thing is, GT PERFORMANCE dyno's all of my engines, and Gary Teague has spent countless hours with me going over different ideas and projects. So they get a first hand look at my stuff all of the time. The best part is, I have no control over their dyno, so when the motor is dynoed and done, it truly is what it is. That is cool.

Steamin' Rice
08-20-2005, 07:40 PM
I ran out of popcorn before I got all the way through this thread, but I wanted to say congrats to Howard and GT - It looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing one in person one of these days.

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:05 PM
Congragulations to Howard Boats for putting out what I will bet to be yet another superior product!! :)
I really like the overall look of the boat!! Without seeing it up close, the only thing I would comment on is that I think the swim step is a little high out of the water.
RD

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:25 PM
Froggy,
What sucks is that I have seen boats at the river allready while not complete splashes, you can tell that the designers must to have seen your boat pictures. I see a lot of swopes or lines ending in your little trident arrow type tips now.
bundy
Carlos down at DCB was doing those little "Devil tails" on flames of boats and on tribal type graphics since before the Trident even had a concept model.. (4 or 5 years ago since the 1st ones I've seen)
Look at the lower purple line on the flyin vee's boat. I can pretty much tell you that Jamie has never even heard of a Trident, let alone copied the gel of a concept model of one. (at the time this boat was built Trident only had a model, which wasn't painted yet at the time this was built)
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/719kh3rdtrip002.jpg
So does that mean Carlos gets to sue everyone that uses his devils tail dealios on a boat? Or does Satan get to sue Carlos, who in turn gets to sue those that copied DCB's, and then ultimately Trident that didn't copy a gelcoat, but most certainly has something on some level "similar" to something that has been done before?
As Summit Karl said earlier.. There's only so many ways to build a fence. I don't care what you come up with on the side of a boat, if you looked at evey boat ever built I'm sure you can come up with some similarities..
RD

TPI
08-20-2005, 09:28 PM
RD,
That is so funny that you pointed out the swim step. When we were all in the boat I said to Mike, Damn that thing comes just above the water line, thats perfect(about 3-5" it seemed). With everybody in the boat, it seemed to be in the perfect place to sit on the back and dangle your legs in the water. Maybe even a good place to fish?

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:29 PM
RD,
That is so funny that you pointed out the swim step. When we were all in the boat I said to Mike, Damn that thing comes just above the water line, thats perfect(about 3-5" it seemed). With everybody in the boat, it seemed to be in the perfect place to sit on the back and dangle your legs in the water. Maybe even a good place to fish?
Probably sits more correctly with people in the boat. I just noticed it from the empty pictures.. Incidentally I'm not in the best of shape (round if ya know what I mean) so I like a swim step right at water line.. LOL Makes it easier for us fat asses to get in and out of the boat. ;)
RD

djunkie
08-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Probably sits more correctly with people in the boat. I just noticed it from the empty pictures.. Incidentally I'm not in the best of shape (round if ya know what I mean) so I like a swim step right at water line.. LOL Makes it easier for us fat asses to get in and out of the boat. ;)
RD
Ya it doesn't help that your old too. :D Why aint you at the river?

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:31 PM
Ya it doesn't help that your old too. :D Why aint you at the river?
Machining all the parts for a drop down seat pedestal this weekend.. Coming out with some new stuff for CEM as well as finishing up Bubbles for the buyer. :)
RD

TPI
08-20-2005, 09:33 PM
I just looked at the picture of it floating from the rear, it does look high. But its just right(I thought) DAMN these pictures, none of them depict the boat as well as the real thing. We need to meet everyone at the lake with one of these Sportdecks, so everyone can check it out up close? This one will be at Havasu on Labor Day.

djunkie
08-20-2005, 09:35 PM
Machining all the parts for a drop down seat pedestal this weekend.. Coming out with some new stuff for CEM as well as finishing up Bubbles for the buyer. :)
RD
Ahhh I C. Well I'm gonna see if JP is gonna be down there for the Enduro. If so I'll probably cruise down and give you guys some hell.

djunkie
08-20-2005, 09:36 PM
I just looked at the picture of it floating from the rear, it does look high. But its just right(I thought) DAMN these pictures, none of them depict the boat as well as the real thing. We need to meet everyone at the lake with one of these Sportdecks, so everyone can check it out up close? This one will be at Havasu on Labor Day.
Now that sounds like an awesome idea. I really am set on a 28 Bullett but this thing just looks so nice. :D

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:47 PM
Ahhh I C. Well I'm gonna see if JP is gonna be down there for the Enduro. If so I'll probably cruise down and give you guys some hell.
I got some pictures of JP for ya.. LOL :D I'll e-mail them to you as soon as I upload them from Stacy's camera. ;) You'll be laughing your ass off.
RD

RiverDave
08-20-2005, 09:48 PM
I just looked at the picture of it floating from the rear, it does look high. But its just right(I thought) DAMN these pictures, none of them depict the boat as well as the real thing. We need to meet everyone at the lake with one of these Sportdecks, so everyone can check it out up close? This one will be at Havasu on Labor Day.
I think that would be an excellent idea!! :) I know I'd like to see it 1st hand. I've never not been impressed by a product Howard has put out (as a matter of fact if everything goes right I'll be a Howard owner myself here in the near future). I know I'd like to see it 1st hand, and even trade a beer or four for a ride in it.
RD

djunkie
08-20-2005, 09:48 PM
I got some pictures of JP for ya.. LOL :D I'll e-mail them to you as soon as I upload them from Stacy's camera. ;) You'll be laughing your ass off.
RD
Cool. I can only imagine. He called me last friday to see if I wanted to head out with him but I had to work. (too many river trips lately) But I plan on coming down for the Enduro.

INFINITEJJ
08-25-2005, 04:33 PM
Bump.

dr. margarita
08-29-2005, 05:01 PM
(as a matter of fact if everything goes right I'll be a Howard owner myself here in the near future)RD
Whoa!!! You heard it here first!!! RD in a Howard. The man knows boats.

dr. margarita
08-29-2005, 05:10 PM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db6.JPG
I'm the one that should be pissed here. Look at the graphics near the cock pit and the two forward streaks!!!! I'm calling my lawyer! I know where the inspiration for these graphics came from!! :p :p :p
Obviously joking here folks. My graphics where inspired and created by a very creative, wonderful individual!!!
Insanely beautiful boat! Congratulations to Howard for another legendary addition to a great product line.
Can't wait to hear reports of the performance of the hull when the boat is fully loaded with passengers, especially passengers loaded in the front.
Love ya all! Dr. Marg

OutCole'd
08-29-2005, 06:58 PM
Great thread, I just finished it..... :rollside: :confused:

Man-de-lone
08-29-2005, 07:28 PM
Is there someone crouched down or laying on the floor?
You guys didn't just let it float out there by itself did ya?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db6.JPG

TPI
08-29-2005, 07:37 PM
Is there someone crouched down or laying on the floor?
You guys didn't just let it float out there by itself did ya?
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383db6.JPG
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone noticed that. I was the "lucky" one idling it around and laying on the floor.....................

BADAXE
08-29-2005, 08:06 PM
On the flip side of it all... the boat looks bad ass, and those are some really big numbers.
Congrats to Gene and Mike.
It's to bad this was not your only post in this thread. All the other posts made you come accross a little lame:cool:

Froggystyle
08-30-2005, 08:56 AM
It's to bad this was not your only post in this thread. All the other posts made you come accross a little lame:cool:
Well, you can't win them all...

mbrown2
08-30-2005, 08:57 AM
I knew it was only a matter of time until someone noticed that. I was the "lucky" one idling it around and laying on the floor.....................
I figured they just made you swim....:)

It's Only Money
08-30-2005, 04:59 PM
It's to bad this was not your only post in this thread. All the other posts made you come accross a little lame:cool:
lame isn't the right word for it.

Keith E. Sayre
08-30-2005, 05:48 PM
I guess I'll throw my two cents out there:
GT--cool looking engine. if it runs like it looks, you've got a winner. I'm betting that you do. Always nice visiting with you on the occasions that I have.
Gene and Mike: I've stated publicly and in print that they build as good of
a boat as anyone. I'll further state that your boat looks great and I'm certain
that it will be another example of "Howard" excellence! Hats off to both of you? By the way--where's Lenny?
Froggy: Lots of great ideas coming out of your shop, when are you coming
to Havasu with that boat? I want a ride. Best wishes to your company also.
Lots of good ideas, R & D and maybe a little luck! That's the boat business!
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats

Froggystyle
08-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Froggy: Lots of great ideas coming out of your shop, when are you coming
to Havasu with that boat? I want a ride. Best wishes to your company also.
Lots of good ideas, R & D and maybe a little luck! That's the boat business!
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats
We will be on Mead on Saturday, and Parker on Sunday/Monday shooting a TV show with the boat.
The "official" coming out party will be when boat #2 hits the water with all of the mods we have learned from #1. Soon... soon.

Steamin' Rice
09-01-2005, 07:52 AM
I was out at Howard last week and took a peek at the sportdeck - It's really nice looking in person. Congrats to Mike, Gene, and GT

riverracerx
10-16-2005, 05:18 PM
Anyone got any more photos to share?

Boa1277
10-16-2005, 08:11 PM
You say "No... I will get sued."
There is a new sherriff in town. There will be a lot of education going on in the industry with regard to stealing graphics in the next few years. The 10% rule is imaginary. And if you don't think those two boats look nearly identical you need to get your eyes checked.
The shape of the orange, the shape of the red "claw" underneath, the line of the outline etc...
The good news for Howard is that the design is neither copyrighted or particularly original. Not to rain on Atomickitn's parade, but it looks very similar to a lot of stuff already on the market. There is NO QUESTION the Howard is derivative to say the least, and in my eyes it is a near direct splash. As it is "industry standard" there is a small likelihood of getting sued for it.
Mine has no less than 11 "features" that are protected. Shapes, proportions and weight of graphics play a role. The most important thing is what the overall appearance looks like. Mine doesn't look like anyones. It is in the shape of a Trident (trademarked) and is going to be on every boat. If someone hands a builder a picture of my boat, and says "I want it to look like this..." then it probably will. If it does, the first instance lawsuit is for $150,000 dollars plus you have to change the design. If you absolutely cannot sell a boat without my graphic, you can call and buy a liscense to use it. It will be an additional cost you need to turn over to your client, but if it is truly a no-go criteria, they should be willing to pay the person who designed it for the rights to use it.
I can't wait. This industry needs an enema.
I will comment on this, if you really think people will purchase a boat because of the protected graphics, you have another think coming. The day people start buying boats because the graphics are copyrighted, is the day I give up boating, its bad enough people by cookie cutters like Bayliner, but I do feel they have a place in the boating industry, otherwise they would not be so successful,(Great first timer boat, or financially strapped boat), I think you should really work on the overall quality of your boat, it being a new boat, you are going to have to prove yourself, before you worry about the paint. There is so much that goes into a nice boat, Froggy I know you are just getting started but you should not even be comparing anything on your boat to anything Howard has, it is like comparing a Delorean,(If they had only made one) to a Ferrari, it really seems to me you jump on these threads and talk about yourself, Talk is cheap, lets see the product, and after we see the product you need at least 10yrs to build some sort of reputation to be even comparable to a Howard. If you are right and I am wrong and people just cant get enough of your Trident, then I am sure it wont be to long before you become another Brunswick product. Thats my 2 cents. :confused:
P.S. Great boat Howard, I really think the industry needs a Rolls Royce of Deck boats. Gary that is one of the nicest looking engines I have ever seen, and obviously it works well to. 90s in a 28 deck impressive. :D :D

Charley
10-16-2005, 08:48 PM
nice Boat

No Name
10-16-2005, 09:36 PM
This pic was taken last week before the boat was finished:
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383sp4m.JPG
Very nice engine, boat looks great too...... :smile:

tcook33
10-16-2005, 10:12 PM
Froggy should spend more money on a PR guy and not so much on "one-off" graphics.
GT, I love the Howard deck. I have the 26 cat and love it. I will probably be looking for a new one soon and it will most likely be a deck, and this is just about the best I've seen yet. Very good job Gene and Mike.

TRG
10-16-2005, 10:33 PM
Remember back when Kona, Eliminator, Bahner,Nordic, Rogers, Southwind, Anthony, Hallett,etc. etc. and on and on blah blah?
They all had 18 bubble deck jet boats and ALL were avail. in that GODAWFUL Brown bass boat glitter gel and tan???
Those boats are still out there on the water and they are Still some of the cleanest boats out there!... enough to make some guys hop off of their 200K+ rigs out "ON THE RIVER" no less, and have a look at what is still clean, how many times can someone re-invent the wheel with graphics on gel????? This argument about lawsuits with graphics is just plain horseshart (and pretty helarious ).
The boats that are copying someones previous gel scheme will still be around in 30 years, nobody gives a shet! nobody but the guy that spilled all that cash for the one boat that stands out from all the rest(this week! lol)
i cant wait for the day that some MFR. sues another for stealing gel-coating schemes, imagine the bad press that will follow, i sure would not buy a boat from a MFR. that pulls that kind of shart!
designs on boats are way too easy,.... why not try and come up with another way to spell the word "DIFFERENT" in the cockpit or in the hull design or hell maybe even in the Power dept. im gonna stop here because i am getting pretty bumbed about how people can really fuq up a good thing, maybe all boat MFR's should offer all white blank canvases (kinda like they used to) and allow the customer to install his own creativity on the side of his gnarley investment! lol maybe that would not be too good of an idea though, then we would have to sit around and hear him and most likely her spit out about how they came up with their design and how they were tired of seeing the same ol' same ol' (ok maybe i wont stop! lol), could you imagine the fist fight that that would start?? lol
sorry im done, hope not to have offended anyone, hell, i wish i had the equity to pull of some of the stuff you all are! happy trails!
Todd

weekendwarrior
10-17-2005, 01:30 PM
[QUOTE=tcook33]Froggy should spend more money on a PR guy and not so much on "one-off" graphics.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. A person should'nt have to use words or put other builders down to make his boats look better. He should let his skill as a boat builder do the talking. Since theres only one Trident built, and he obviously didn't build it himself. All Froggy has is words. It is really good to see a great builder like Howard come off with a deckboat that won't be so cooky cutter like some of the others. Great job Howard Boats with the creativity. :rollside:

Creator
10-17-2005, 02:30 PM
I couldn't agree more. The Howard is one good lookin boat. I came across the trident awhile back and thought, Hmmm that's an interesting design. Not really my style but kinda neat. Then I read what Froggy had to say in this thread and now I know I would never buy a boat from tirdent. I can't believe that someone would sue over graphics....PATHETIC.
Our boat has some very unique graphics and it has been repeated many times, it was in ***boat and a few other mags. I know people took the picture in and said I want it to look like that. Does it suck to see a copy of your boat? Sure, but it is also a form of flattery. It's much worse to go around saying "I WILL SUE". It's a boat! Froggy you need to ease up if you plan on selling any of your boats, I bet there are very few people on this board that would buy from someone with such arrogance. 2 whole graphics patterns for a "mass produced" dealer sold boat and you want to sue if you see someone with a similar pattern? Probably because you only have 2 patterns, right. I'm sure Bayliner doesn't go around filing lawsuits on every boat owner/manufacturer that puts a fat blue stripe down the side of their boat.
Hmmm......Reminds me of the A-holes who get in a fender bender and cry about their neck and back then sue for no good reason other than to make money! This country has become sue happy because of attitudes like yours! Besides, who came up with the idea of a deck boat? You? I think not..... I wouldn't be too worried about copies, no one really likes to copy mass produced graphics anyways. As far as only offering 2 patterns, that will turn my business elsewhere too. My next boats scheme may be a derivative of another boat but at least I picked the pattern I liked and wasn't force feed one.
In closing, Go Howard I love your work!

Froggystyle
10-17-2005, 03:08 PM
Well, these responses are cute but they only speak to ignorance. One of the most valuable assets of any business based on creativity is the intellectual property protection that it has over it's creativity.
If protecting my IP is something that places me in a bad light... I can live with that. These forums are full of stories of people legitimately pissed about gelcoat design stealing, so I know I am not alone. Where I appear to be alone is in the fact that I will use my investment in IP protection to insure that I am the only one able to market my designs, which I feel bring more to a boat than just the gelcoat they are painted with. Anyone who would make a decision for their new boat purchase based on whether or not a manufacturer chooses to protect their investment in IP is certainly not basing the judgement on quality, safety, integrity, value or performance. It is a decision based on ignorance of basic business ethics and practices and is likely the same type of person offering to pay cash so they can save on the taxes. If you really want some great dirt on me, it is a well known fact that I have been known to sue people who write bad checks to me or are guilty of fraudulent non-disclosure. I am quite the cretin that way...
Speaking of which, my legal team represents numerous clients from Guess jeans to Oakley... all of whom spend an inordinate amount of money each year preventing IP theft and taking legal action against EVERYONE who is guilty of it. That is how companies who are known for innovation stay profitable. R&D costs a fortune. Nobody will do it (as hardly anyone in our industry has...) if you can have your stuff swiped before you get your own boat done.
I have been extremely clear with the industry and the public with regard to how I feel about IP theft. My point has been made over and over again, and my inbox is full enough of people applauding the resolve and integrity that my unwillingness to splash others designs and my fierce protection of my own indicates that I am uninterested in the sour grapes of a few people who feel that it is every boaters right to paint whatever the hell they want on the side of their boat, regardless of who owns the design.
I don't want to soil a thread any further that is about another boat companies triumph, but will continue to defend myself against some pretty pointed attacks on my company if it comes up again. If anyone has any serious issues, or feels that I just don't get it, feel free to PM me or start another thread. Let's keep the bickering off this thread though.
Again, I love the Howard, think Gene and Mike are great builders and respect Gary's motors a huge amount. Boat looks great, runs great and is another triumph by the team at Howard and GT. Way to go guys.

phebus
10-17-2005, 04:15 PM
I can't believe that people have a hard on over someone not wanting their designs stolen, and are upset that someone would take measures to protect them.
Secondly, I fail to see how Howard coming out with what looks like a fantastic new deckboat, would turn a thread into a bashing over another product.
This place never fails to amaze me. As consumers, we should be welcoming innovation, regardless of the manufacturer, because we only have to gain from it.
Whether or not the Trident is successsfull, we will see, but I guarntee that as consumers, we will benifit from new technoligies, and designs from it.

tcook33
10-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Froggy thinks we are all cute and ignorant. If he already hasn't slapped us all in the face. He's going for the 1-2 punch.
It's not about trying to protect your own designs. Great, more power to you. Standing up for what you believe in. Aint a damn thing wrong with that. Have a ball. Just don't go on an open forum for everyone in the industry to read, and hijack a thread that was intended for the public to view a new boat from a manufacturer that has a reputation that few can match. Then start taking shots at the people that disagree with what you say.
And I dont care who you are and what industry your in, when you go on the web and openly start talkin about lawsuits for this and that and I'm gonna be rich is someone f's with me, you better be ready to help dig the grave. You've probably lost a lot of respect from quite a few people here.
Which has brought me to the comment I made earlier....you better spend some money on a PR guy to help pull you out of that hole yer in. Maybe you should put HIM in front of that keyboard and get back to designing your "copyright protected dont f with me Im the shit" one-offs.
Howard boats are the shit. That one Trident boat is kinda cool too. :D

Boa1277
10-17-2005, 06:30 PM
Well, these responses are cute but they only speak to ignorance. One of the most valuable assets of any business based on creativity is the intellectual property protection that it has over it's creativity.
If protecting my IP is something that places me in a bad light... I can live with that. These forums are full of stories of people legitimately pissed about gelcoat design stealing, so I know I am not alone. Where I appear to be alone is in the fact that I will use my investment in IP protection to insure that I am the only one able to market my designs, which I feel bring more to a boat than just the gelcoat they are painted with. Anyone who would make a decision for their new boat purchase based on whether or not a manufacturer chooses to protect their investment in IP is certainly not basing the judgement on quality, safety, integrity, value or performance. It is a decision based on ignorance of basic business ethics and practices and is likely the same type of person offering to pay cash so they can save on the taxes. If you really want some great dirt on me, it is a well known fact that I have been known to sue people who write bad checks to me or are guilty of fraudulent non-disclosure. I am quite the cretin that way...
Speaking of which, my legal team represents numerous clients from Guess jeans to Oakley... all of whom spend an inordinate amount of money each year preventing IP theft and taking legal action against EVERYONE who is guilty of it. That is how companies who are known for innovation stay profitable. R&D costs a fortune. Nobody will do it (as hardly anyone in our industry has...) if you can have your stuff swiped before you get your own boat done.
I have been extremely clear with the industry and the public with regard to how I feel about IP theft. My point has been made over and over again, and my inbox is full enough of people applauding the resolve and integrity that my unwillingness to splash others designs and my fierce protection of my own indicates that I am uninterested in the sour grapes of a few people who feel that it is every boaters right to paint whatever the hell they want on the side of their boat, regardless of who owns the design.
I don't want to soil a thread any further that is about another boat companies triumph, but will continue to defend myself against some pretty pointed attacks on my company if it comes up again. If anyone has any serious issues, or feels that I just don't get it, feel free to PM me or start another thread. Let's keep the bickering off this thread though.
Again, I love the Howard, think Gene and Mike are great builders and respect Gary's motors a huge amount. Boat looks great, runs great and is another triumph by the team at Howard and GT. Way to go guys.
That is a whole lot of mumbo jumbo, I would sure like to see how protecting your graphics, makes your product safer, stronger, or have a better over all fit and finish, alls you have done is protect your paint design, it is as simple as that, what I am trying to say is if you went to all this trouble to protect your design, why diddnt you go to the trouble to patent some really inovative products, stuff that true boaters will really applaud, and if by some chance the Trident has done this why arent you talking about it, why arent you threating to sue some of these other manufacturers because you developed a new mold that is so inovative you can turn sharper go faster than anyone else outhere, I tell you why it is because you havent, in fact the only thing you have done different than any other boat builder is come up with this IP protection thing, and you are consistently hijacking threads to talk about it, that way you can keep yourself in threads created for the true boat builders out there like HOWARD, SCHIADA, DCB to name a few. Good luck with your Trident, it has a long way to go, and a whole lot more to prove.

TRG
10-18-2005, 04:26 PM
intellectual property protection??? if that dont sound Ignorant i dont know what is?
You sort of sound like the dupont corp., you know, the whole rainbow thing (Jeff Gordon) i can trully see IP with that whole cash cow org. but a new boat builder??? i dont know about that!
have you thought about Trade marking your gel schemes (individualy), like bayliner and sea ray, different colors to depict the sizes and styles of hulls you offer? oh! wait you only have one hull to offer!
maybe im in over my head here but all i know is if i like a hull and the performance, gel would be the last thing on my mind,... power, handling and then styling! thats it!
Am i wrong in thinking this way??
Todd

TPI
10-18-2005, 08:01 PM
I had heard this thread was up and running again....................Its definately still going............................................. ..................
On a lighter note: The new Sportdeck has been tested by both ***boat and Powerboat mags and the combination has about 23 hours on it now. As far as I know, everyone loved the boat. I anticipate the Powerboat mag will be out in a few weeks with a full write up, and I am thinking the ***boat Mag write up will be closer to the end of the year. The boat is very cool, and it has a bunch of interior and storage space. It handles VERY well, and from listening to all that have driven it, they say it really turns nice. I think it drives and turns nice too, but what do I know, I am a 28 Bullet lover!

INSman
10-18-2005, 09:09 PM
I had heard this thread was up and running again....................Its definately still going............................................. ..................
On a lighter note: The new Sportdeck has been tested by both ***boat and Powerboat mags and the combination has about 23 hours on it now. As far as I know, everyone loved the boat. I anticipate the Powerboat mag will be out in a few weeks with a full write up, and I am thinking the ***boat Mag write up will be closer to the end of the year. The boat is very cool, and it has a bunch of interior and storage space. It handles VERY well, and from listening to all that have driven it, they say it really turns nice. I think it drives and turns nice too, but what do I know, I am a 28 Bullet lover!
Gary
Next project is a 32' or 34' Howard Bullet with twin TPI 700 EFI's :supp: :D
Git R Done ;)

Phat Matt
10-18-2005, 10:04 PM
I just read this whole thread for the first time. Wow.

TPI
10-19-2005, 05:32 AM
Gary
Next project is a 32' or 34' Howard Bullet with twin TPI 700 EFI's :supp: :D
Git R Done ;)
Sounds like an expensive project. I think I would take my $250K(If I had it) and buy some investment property.

Sherpa
10-19-2005, 06:23 AM
Beautiful boat.............. Doesn't have the "killer-cat" look to it, but more a
really high performance family ride...... (Hope that doesn't offend anyone)
Froggy: I'd definetely like a ride in the Trident someday...........
as for copyrighted stuff............ Wakeboard towers.......................
sure, alot of "tournament" boats have them now, and they're rebadged and
called wakeboard board boats........
so, who made the first wakeboard tower-? did they get a patent on it? I
dunno.......... I do know this: Ski Nautique DID get the patent on towers.
so, every Masterraft, Malibu, Centurian, Bayliner, Fourwinds, etc. running
a tower had to pay the Ski Nautique company some cash for being allowed
to use a tower on a boat.
Boss Accessories is a local San Jose company, and they also pay royalties
to be able to make towers.....
So there is a protection-level created for design and implementation of an
idea........... and it makes a crap load of money when enforced...............
--Sherpa

MagicMtnDan
10-19-2005, 06:55 AM
Who are you guys and why are you so angry?
Froggy has done a lot more innovation than his graphics but you won't say it.
Accusing someone like him of "mumbo jumbo" when (a) we don't know who you are and (b) you have yet to even achieve mumbo-jumbo quality in your post doesn't give you any credibility.
You have every right to not like his boats or his work but I think you guys have gone overboard.
By the way, I think Howard has come up with yet another winner in the increasing line of top quality boats!
That is a whole lot of mumbo jumbo, I would sure like to see how protecting your graphics, makes your product safer, stronger, or have a better over all fit and finish, alls you have done is protect your paint design, it is as simple as that, what I am trying to say is if you went to all this trouble to protect your design, why diddnt you go to the trouble to patent some really inovative products, stuff that true boaters will really applaud, and if by some chance the Trident has done this why arent you talking about it, why arent you threating to sue some of these other manufacturers because you developed a new mold that is so inovative you can turn sharper go faster than anyone else outhere, I tell you why it is because you havent, in fact the only thing you have done different than any other boat builder is come up with this IP protection thing, and you are consistently hijacking threads to talk about it, that way you can keep yourself in threads created for the true boat builders out there like HOWARD, SCHIADA, DCB to name a few. Good luck with your Trident, it has a long way to go, and a whole lot more to prove.

BADAXE
10-19-2005, 07:42 AM
Well, these responses are cute but they only speak to ignorance. One of the most valuable assets of any business based on creativity is the intellectual property protection that it has over it's creativity.
If protecting my IP is something that places me in a bad light... I can live with that. These forums are full of stories of people legitimately pissed about gelcoat design stealing, so I know I am not alone. Where I appear to be alone is in the fact that I will use my investment in IP protection to insure that I am the only one able to market my designs, which I feel bring more to a boat than just the gelcoat they are painted with. Anyone who would make a decision for their new boat purchase based on whether or not a manufacturer chooses to protect their investment in IP is certainly not basing the judgement on quality, safety, integrity, value or performance. It is a decision based on ignorance of basic business ethics and practices and is likely the same type of person offering to pay cash so they can save on the taxes. If you really want some great dirt on me, it is a well known fact that I have been known to sue people who write bad checks to me or are guilty of fraudulent non-disclosure. I am quite the cretin that way...
Speaking of which, my legal team represents numerous clients from Guess jeans to Oakley... all of whom spend an inordinate amount of money each year preventing IP theft and taking legal action against EVERYONE who is guilty of it. That is how companies who are known for innovation stay profitable. R&D costs a fortune. Nobody will do it (as hardly anyone in our industry has...) if you can have your stuff swiped before you get your own boat done.
I have been extremely clear with the industry and the public with regard to how I feel about IP theft. My point has been made over and over again, and my inbox is full enough of people applauding the resolve and integrity that my unwillingness to splash others designs and my fierce protection of my own indicates that I am uninterested in the sour grapes of a few people who feel that it is every boaters right to paint whatever the hell they want on the side of their boat, regardless of who owns the design.
I don't want to soil a thread any further that is about another boat companies triumph, but will continue to defend myself against some pretty pointed attacks on my company if it comes up again. If anyone has any serious issues, or feels that I just don't get it, feel free to PM me or start another thread. Let's keep the bickering off this thread though.
Again, I love the Howard, think Gene and Mike are great builders and respect Gary's motors a huge amount. Boat looks great, runs great and is another triumph by the team at Howard and GT. Way to go guys.
Nice post and I agree with you about protecting your designs. I think because protecting IP is a new concept in this industry that most people don't understand it. I hope you don't ever have to seek a legal remedy but if you did I would watch the results with great interest.
Ok, let's get back to talking about how great this new sportdeck looks and performs.

Boa1277
10-19-2005, 08:00 AM
Who are you guys and why are you so angry?
Froggy has done a lot more innovation than his graphics but you won't say it.
Accusing someone like him of "mumbo jumbo" when (a) we don't know who you are and (b) you have yet to even achieve mumbo-jumbo quality in your post doesn't give you any credibility.
You have every right to not like his boats or his work but I think you guys have gone overboard.
By the way, I think Howard has come up with yet another winner in the increasing line of top quality boats!
Why isnt he talking about that, the innovation of actual products that improve the boating experience, how can I talk about his innovative new products I havent even heard of Trident befor this thread, I am not mad at all, please dont take it personal, I just started reading a thread devoted to the new Howard and as I am reading it I realize somehow and dont ask me how, there is a whole new subject, and it involves copyrighting of all things a graphic on the side of a boat, and as I read further I realized the guy doing all of this really hasnt even started yet, he is just getting started, I just thought if it were me I would be talking about the new innovative products that my New boat had on it, not the one off graphics, to me that is not a selling point, but the bottom line is why is it even on or being discussed on a thread devoted to Howards new sportdeck. Do you think I would have bothered if I diddnt feel he was looking for some advertising regarding his product, he wants people talking about the new Trident, and he did it in a kinda underhanded way, by hijacking a Howard thread, and then trying to cover it up by still giving the Howard props. I think he should have started his own thread, but then again who really would have looked at it or taken it serious, he doesnt have the reputation of Howard. Sorry if that isnt credible enough, I am a firm believer in common sense.

Froggystyle
10-19-2005, 08:14 AM
Why isnt he talking about that, the innovation of actual products that improve the boating experience, how can I talk about his innovative new products I havent even heard of Trident befor this thread, I am not mad at all, please dont take it personal, I just started reading a thread devoted to the new Howard and as I am reading it I realize somehow and dont ask me how, there is a whole new subject, and it involves copyrighting of all things a graphic on the side of a boat, and as I read further I realized the guy doing all of this really hasnt even started yet, he is just getting started, I just thought if it were me I would be talking about the new innovative products that my New boat had on it, not the one off graphics, to me that is not a selling point, but the bottom line is why is it even on or being discussed on a thread devoted to Howards new sportdeck. Do you think I would have bothered if I diddnt feel he was looking for some advertising regarding his product, he wants people talking about the new Trident, and he did it in a kinda underhanded way, by hijacking a Howard thread, and then trying to cover it up by still giving the Howard props. I think he should have started his own thread, but then again who really would have looked at it or taken it serious, he doesnt have the reputation of Howard. Sorry if that isnt credible enough, I am a firm believer in common sense.
Fair. But you have not been on here long enough to remember when I wasn't a boat builder. I have been bagging on companies that splash graphics since the day I got here. Do a search. BTW... you will need to go back to 2001.
I jumped on this thread because another boat manufacturer posted that they had their graphics ripped off on this thread. After a very initial peek at the two, the ripoff is obvious in my opinion, and since the other clearly was built before the Howard, it seems clear who influenced who.
As I have stated before, I hope this does not happen to me. The person who drew the graphic scheme and got ripped off was clearly bent over it. As many people I know who have had their graphics ripped off have been. It dilutes the impact of those who spend time energy and risk designing custom graphics, and the fact that Howard did it is proof that it is not only the Commanders and Sleeks of the industry ripping off graphics. Howard is a top name, building a great boat. It would be nice to see them invest a fraction of the time and money they invest in tooling in proprietary graphics.
I think that "just gelcoat" is a huge reason why boats sell today. Otherwise you wouldn't see some marginal boats on the water. This year alone we have seen a blatant (and authorized) splash of an Ultra design by Frenchie to put on his new Shockwave. He was in discussions with Ultra regarding a new boat sale, and when it all came down he pretty much said he liked the Ultra graphics and the Shockwave price. So, he splashed the graphics and bought the less expensive Shockwave. Had those graphics not been available on the Shockwave, who knows what direction that would have gone. Would the graphics alone have been enough to keep the client? Maybe... and maybe is enough.
If no one else wants to start a thread about this... I guess I will. I want to keep this off the Howard thread for once and for all.

TPI
10-19-2005, 09:07 AM
This thread is like the energizer bunny............................................. ...

riverracerx
10-19-2005, 09:37 AM
So how 'bout that Howard Sportdeck. Or should I start a new thread about it?

TPI
10-19-2005, 09:50 AM
That might be a really good idea.............................................. ....

ROZ
10-19-2005, 10:25 AM
Fair. But you have not been on here long enough to remember when I wasn't a boat builder. I have been bagging on companies that splash graphics since the day I got here. Do a search. BTW... you will need to go back to 2001.
I jumped on this thread because another boat manufacturer posted that they had their graphics ripped off on this thread. After a very initial peek at the two, the ripoff is obvious in my opinion, and since the other clearly was built before the Howard, it seems clear who influenced who.
The only thing that I see you may have failed to mention is that copywriting the graphics is an option for your customer, or I think you said that a long while back :confused:
As far as everything else, I agree with what BADAXE posted...There's nothing wrong with protecting the innovations you've created...

little rowe boat
10-19-2005, 10:50 AM
Enough talk about froggystyle. :rolleyes:
How about some pics of the interior.

1manshow
12-19-2005, 11:46 AM
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/383tow3.JPG
Can the owner or gary taylor comment on the steering set up on this boat? I am looking into steering setups for my new boat and would like to know if there is noticeable difference in the turning radis between the transom mount steering and the new imco x treme advantage gimbal style?

1manshow
12-20-2005, 06:43 AM
ttt