Anyone Familiar With AZ Laws???

[BADBLOWN572]

I have a question on an eviction and what procedures need to be done.
Basically a person is staying in a house without permission of the owner. Unfortunately the owner is in Hospice and will not make it much longer. The owner gave the person in question a key for maintenance on the facility and the person has moved in without the owner's concent. The key was because the owner lives in Redondo Beach and Parker is a long way to have to drive to let a plumer, painter, etc into the house. He was never ever told that he could stay in the house. With the owner in his final days, the person that has power of attorney over the estate and person wants the person living there out and the locks changed. Last time I talked to the owner he said that the person was not staying there, just there to let a contractor in. The problem is that there are a lot of assets in the house and we are afraid that this person would start to steel them if we can not get him out quick and before he finds out that the owner is dying. After that, we will not know what was there and what was not. The person that we think is living there is a low life scum bag.
Since the guy was not ever given formal permission to be in the house, can we simply go in and kick him out and say that if he comes back he will be tresspassing or do we have to go through a huge formal eviction and give him time to line his pockets with things that are not his?
Additionally, we are not 100% positive that he is living there, but we are confident. He has a place in town, but it is not water front and furnished nicely so we think that he is staying there full time. If he is not there, can we simply change the locks and alarm codes so he can not get back into the house?

[jackpunx]

dude.. Just go there.. tell him your staying for the weekend.. and change the locks..

[cxr133]

NOW that you have some good advice:
get a couple of the biggest HB people here and go pay him a special visit at 2am lettign him know that for safety reasons he should probably leave
QUICKLY

[jackpunx]

Does he know you want him out?
If not, I would draw him out with a ruse and then have the locks changed. Or maybe even stake the place out with a couple spare locks, wait for him to leave and then change the locks. I would also notify the police, at the time you start changing the locks, should he return in the middle. Do not use the word eviction. You are not evicting him. A couple people have keys to my place at the river, they do not have my permission to move in and set up house.
he told us he's not living there.. it just a get away for him.. so he can do his laundry and watch tv..run the AC.. and so on.. so.. If you show up to stay for the weekend.. He'll just go home.. Unless things have changes since the last time we were there..
dont say anything other then .. we are here for the weekend.. You need to get that changed out.. and drill the garage shut from the inside.. or make sure it secure.. change the alarm code.. and be done with it..
Has he changed his tune since the last time you talked to him?.. and..
what about the stuff in the yard?

[Cole Trickle]

All good ideas!!!
Tell him theres a party at RD's saturday and we will sneak over and change the locks.
If that dosen't work tell RD he could always stab the guy with one of his skinny arms! :boxingguy

[Rockdog]

NOW that you have some good advice:
get a couple of the biggest HB people here and go pay him a special visit at 2am lettign him know that for safety reasons he should probably leave
QUICKLY
What he said!

[BADBLOWN572]

The problem that I have is that I was told that if I go in there and kick him out, he can come back to me legally and sue me and the owner's estate for eviction. I was told that it was not like the state of California. I know that he is going to say that the owner give him permission to stay there and with the owner being delusional, we can not confirm that he did or did not giver permission to stay. The owner has told me that he was never given permission to stay, but if the guys says he was it will be our word against his and the owner is not capable to testify that he did not give permission.
I just want to cover myself so I do not end up in a lawsuit or a confrontation and get the poice involved. I just want to explore my options to get him out of there quickly and easily.

[jackpunx]

It's not Tim the Sandbar Beer Beggar is it? :D :D
No

[BADBLOWN572]

Arizona law is much more black and white then CA law. I bet if you called the cops out they'd kick him out for you. Shiat in Arizona your aloud to shoot people for that..
I talked to a LEO officer about this and he said that if the guy had permission to stay from ANYONE for even one night, we must file formal eviction papers. This is kind of why I am asking.
I am sure that the guys tune will change from staying there to watch TV, do laundry, etc... when we tell him to get out and not come back & if he does, we will prosecute for tresspassing. He is already pissed at the owner and I can see him doing something shitty. :(

[Bad Puddy Tat]

BadBlown,
Talked with a lawyer friend of mine. His take on your situation was there is no legal contract. The owner can go in change the locks etc. with no recourse from the occupant. As suggested earlier I think I would move fast if I were you.

[jackpunx]

The problem that I have is that I was told that if I go in there and kick him out, he can come back to me legally and sue me and the owner's estate for eviction. I was told that it was not like the state of California. I know that he is going to say that the owner give him permission to stay there and with the owner being delusional, we can not confirm that he did or did not giver permission to stay. The owner has told me that he was never given permission to stay, but if the guys says he was it will be our word against his and the owner is not capable to testify that he did not give permission.
I just want to cover myself so I do not end up in a lawsuit or a confrontation and get the poice involved. I just want to explore my options to get him out of there quickly and easily.
first of all.. He does not know your last name.. so who is he going to sue if the locks are different when he gets back..
second... what paper work .. Lease agreement or whatever .. could he provide to someone to either pick the new locks.. and what would he say to the police?
he is not paying rent.. but .. could say he's care taking the property..
Never know..
I think if you talked to him.. It could be solved pretty easily..
Do you need me to come with you?

[BADBLOWN572]

BadBlown,
Talked with a lawyer friend of mine. His take on your situation was there is no legal contract. The owner can go in change the locks etc. with no recourse from the occupant. As suggested earlier I think I would move fast if I were you.
Awesome. Thank you very much. I am going to move fast. This guy is not going to know what hit him. He thinks that all is normal and he is enjoying a free ride. I am going in on Saturday AM and changing all the locks, alarm code, etc... This way he can not get back in.

[jackpunx]

That guy owes me like 200 beers. :D
LMAO..
tell him to wash your boat :)
I would say have him show you his GF's boobs.. but she does it for free..lol

[SummitKarl]

dude.. Just go there.. tell him your staying for the weekend.. and change the locks..
agreed!!!

[BADBLOWN572]

Have you actually confronted the guy to see what he says about the situation?
As far as given him permission, he's not a tenant, as I assume he's not paying rent. He's a houseguest. Houseguests can be removed from the property at the owner's whim. A simple call to the police from the owner of the house should take care of that.
I have not confronted him yet, but last time that we went up there he was there and was very unhappy when we asked him to leave so we could use the house. His comment to us was to tell the owner that it is B.S that he doesn't get any notice.
There is no legal contract what so ever, however he says that he has been doing some work on the house and that was in lieu of payment. This not consistent with the owner's point of view.

[Bad Puddy Tat]

Badblown,
Since I live out here now fulltime, let me know if I can be of some help. Like JP said without a lease agreement you can kick anyone out of your house on a whim. Just don't let it go on too long.
Bob

[h2oski2fast]

dude.. Just go there.. tell him your staying for the weekend.. and change the locks..
Exactly what I was thinking.

[jackpunx]

I have not confronted him yet, but last time that we went up there he was there and was very unhappy when we asked him to leave so we could use the house. His comment to us was to tell the owner that it is B.S that he doesn't get any notice.
There is no legal contract what so ever, however he says that he has been doing some work on the house and that was in lieu of payment. This not consistent with the owner's point of view.
He's drunk by 7am every time I have ever seen him..
LMAO.. dosnt get any notice.. .. How the hell do they comunicate anyway.. does the guy answer the phone..
your dealing with someone who is delusional...He may be grumpy about it.. but he'll leave..
just be nice.. show up with a bunch of people.. and he'll be cool...
you got the key.. just walk in and throw a party...
You may consider parking some cars there over the weekend also..
just so that you dont have to be confronted with him before the weekend ends

[SummitKarl]

Badblown,
Since I live out here now fulltime, let me know if I can be of some help. Like JP said without a lease agreement you can kick anyone out of your house on a whim. Just don't let it go on too long.
Bob
heck yea this sounds like fun, count my 260lb a$$ in :devil: :D

[jackpunx]

Has he actually done any work? If so, at who's expense? That's the kind of thing that may run you into some problems.
he has done nothing there..

[Boatcop]

Badblown,
Since I live out here now fulltime, let me know if I can be of some help. Like JP said without a lease agreement you can kick anyone out of your house on a whim. Just don't let it go on too long.
Bob
Not true.
In AZ if you even let someone crash on your couch for a night cause he got in a spat with his wife, and he doesn't want to leave, you must go through legal eviction procedures. I've been through this with numerous freeloaders out here at other people's homes. No lease or rental agreement is necessary. Once they stay, you're stuck with them.
Truxt me.
Now, if he's not there and you just change the locks, you're opening another can of worms. If he has ANY personal property in the place, even a pair of dirty skivvies, YOU can be charged with theft. (Depriving one of their property)
Seek legal advice and go through proper eviction procedures. This is for your protection.

[Jordy]

He's drunk by 7am every time I have ever seen him..
LMAO.. dosnt get any notice.. .. How the hell do they comunicate anyway.. does the guy answer the phone..
your dealing with someone who is delusional...He may be grumpy about it.. but he'll leave..
just be nice.. show up with a bunch of people.. and he'll be cool...
you got the key.. just walk in and throw a party...
You may consider parking some cars there over the weekend also..
just so that you dont have to be confronted with him before the weekend ends
You guys are trying to kick RD out of his house??? :D :D :D

[andy01]

You guys are trying to kick RD out of his house??? :D :D :D
Jordy, I have to agree with you on this one. I was getting ready to say the samething. Sounds like they are throwing Dave out of his river house....
Andy

[jackpunx]

Jordy, I have to agree with you on this one. I was getting ready to say the samething. Sounds like they are throwing Dave out of his river house....
Andy
someone mentions the word Delusional.. and you have to assume its RD? :p

[Jordy]

someone mentions the word Delusional.. and you have to assume its RD? :p
Actually, I think it was pretty much everything that you posted in your last post that I quoted that pointed to RD. :D :D :D

[Keithb87]

In AZ if you even let someone crash on your couch for a night cause he got in a spat with his wife, and he doesn't want to leave, you must go through legal eviction procedures. I've been through this with numerous freeloaders out here at other people's homes. No lease or rental agreement is necessary. Once they stay, you're stuck with them.
Can I stay over at you house.. Just for a night... I'll even make sure that your boat floats.. :D :D :D

[jackpunx]

Actually, I think it was pretty much everything that you posted in your last post that I quoted that pointed to RD. :D :D :D
LMaO..
So everyone of us that has stayed at RD's house could just sit there... and have to be kicked out by the law?

[Jordy]

LMaO..
So everyone of us that has stayed at RD's house could just sit there... and have to be kicked out by the law?
Good point. I think I'll wait until this weekend is over though. 14+ people doesn't sound like fun. :D :D :D

[andy01]

He's drunk by 7am every time I have ever seen him..
LMAO.. dosnt get any notice.. .. How the hell do they comunicate anyway.. does the guy answer the phone..
your dealing with someone who is delusional...He may be grumpy about it.. but he'll leave..
just be nice.. show up with a bunch of people.. and he'll be cool...
you got the key.. just walk in and throw a party...
You may consider parking some cars there over the weekend also..
just so that you dont have to be confronted with him before the weekend ends
RiverDave's drunk by 7am every time I have ever seen him..
LMAO.. dosnt get any notice.. .. How the hell do they comunicate anyway.. does Dave answer the phone..
your dealing with RiverDave, someone who is delusional...Dave may be grumpy about it.. but Rd'll leave..
just be nice.. show up with a bunch of people, hand him some coors light.. and he'll be cool...
you got the key, cause everybody does.. just walk in and throw a party...
You may consider parking some cars there over the weekend also..
just so that you dont have to be confronted with RiverDave before the weekend ends
Is that how you meant to write it Mark? j/k
Sorry Dave it was way to easy.........and fitting...............
Andy

[jackpunx]

RiverDave's drunk by 7am every time I have ever seen him..
LMAO.. dosnt get any notice.. .. How the hell do they comunicate anyway.. does Dave answer the phone..
your dealing with RiverDave, someone who is delusional...Dave may be grumpy about it.. but Rd'll leave..
just be nice.. show up with a bunch of people, hand him some coors light.. and he'll be cool...
you got the key, cause everybody does.. just walk in and throw a party...
You may consider parking some cars there over the weekend also..
just so that you dont have to be confronted with RiverDave before the weekend ends
Is that how you meant to write it Mark? j/k
Sorry Dave it was way to easy.........and fitting...............
Andy
LMAO.. that was a good one

[91nordic29]

gosh, it could turn out to be like that movie "pacific heights"! :sqeyes:

[Drift]

I'm not an attourney, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...
No, but in all seriousness,
1. If the owner is delusional and on his/her way out, who in the family has power of attourney, or the executor of said persons estate? Have a written document with their sig on it expressing theirs and your intentions.
2. Get into the house, if the squatter is using the house who's paying the utilities? If the squater is not paying for any of the bills, and not recieving any postage at the property it will be extremely hard for him to prove he was living there, other than his belongings inside the property.
3. Work fast, collect all his belongings and remove them from the property (keep them concealed) and not on near the house. Change the locks and secure the house.
You can end this 2 ways 1 with cops 1 without. Pending on this guy's personality you can wait till he comes back and tell him where he can go get his Sh*t and if he tries to get into the property you'll make him hurt. Or Wait untill he comes back immediately call the Cops show him the signed paper. When he says I've got proof that I live here say prove it. With all traces of his existance removed from the residence he's hosed.
That's just my 2 cents. Good luck!

[Ziggy]

BadBlown,
Talked with a lawyer friend of mine. His take on your situation was there is no legal contract. The owner can go in change the locks etc. with no recourse from the occupant. As suggested earlier I think I would move fast if I were you.
Thats how I'd interpret it too...as far as you knew nobody was supposed to be there anyhow so change the locks/codes as you see fit.
If the guy raises a stink you can question where the heck he'd get a key in the first place, the owner sure didn't give him one being he's been real sick and all.... :rolleyes: :notam:
I hate poachers :devil:

[78Southwind]

dude.. Just go there.. tell him your staying for the weekend.. and change the locks..
What he said. But for a small fee I will move in and watch the place for you. :D

[C-2]

Boatcop is correct on this.
I have participated in hundreds upon hundreds of evictions, acting on behalf of various banks - from serving the first notice to the actual lockout. The fact he doesn't have an agreement doesn't mean squat if he is in possession of the property. And if he's in possession, changing the locks is called "self help" and you can get sued. You have a squatter and unfortunately, squatters have rights. Throwing somebody out without the due process of court (you know, your basic constitutional right) is frowned upon heavily by the courts. :(
There are creative ways to get him to leave - mainly paying him. Gotta go right now but I'll explain later.

[redi4fun]

Boatcop is correct on this.
I have participated in hundreds upon hundreds of evictions, acting on behalf of various banks - from serving the first notice to the actual lockout. The fact he doesn't have an agreement doesn't mean squat if he is in possession of the property. And if he's in possession, changing the locks is called "self help" and you can get sued. You have a squatter and unfortunately, squatters have rights. Throwing somebody out without the due process of court (you know, your basic constitutional right) is frowned upon heavily by the courts. :(
There are creative ways to get him to leave - mainly paying him. Gotta go right now but I'll explain later.
Man that is crazy,
Another f'ed up law to protect freeloaders, GREAT :yuk:

[cxr133]

2am persuasion tactics work the best........
then change the locks..... then call the police and say you think someone keeps trying to break in your house

[Excessive Force]

<-----------wanna borrow my gavel. I call it "4ohhhhh caliber."

[C-2]

You can kick the guy out and change the locks; cops won’t get involved since it’s a civil matter. But if the guy is in fact living there, then kicking him out without doing it properly could create a lot of liability for not only the owner, but all parties involved.
If you kick him out, the scumbag might not do anything except cut his losses and leave. Then again, he might visit an ambulance chaser who sees an easy case which should bring a nice settlement.
This is why you wanna go easy on the scumbag. Sidestep your suspicions and go back to square one – where scumbag was asked to help only. Tell him the owner is very appreciative of the help and wants to pay scumbag for his time and efforts. Continue the owner has decided to sell the place and needs the keys back to give to a realtor who will be showing the house on an unannounced basis (realtors prefer vacant houses, drive that fact home). His responses will tell you whether or not he is in fact living there. Tell him you have a nice check the owner has instructed you to deliver upon receipt of the keys.
Never give scumbag the slightest inclination you are concerned he is living there. Never discuss whether or not the owner gave him permission to stay on an overnight basis, to live there, or do whatever. As far as you’re concerned, the owner gave this guy keys to let in contractors, nothing more.
If this were to go to an eviction, a 30 day notice would need to be served and expire; then an unlawful detainer action filed which usually takes about a month before you get a court date. After the court date, it can still take up to a couple of weeks before any lockout.
An eviction action is the most basic practice of law; a good unlawful detainer “trial” takes no more than 3 minutes or so; a bad one usually no longer than 10 mins. The only issue in an unlawful detainer is possession and holdover damages (and damages are moot here since there was no rental agreement). The court will only decide who is entitled to possession, and not whether or not the owner had the right to kick somebody out. At a minimum, an eviction will cost $800-$1500 in lawyer fees, and a couple hundred more if the lawyer has to appear in court.
Then you have an out of court option called cash for keys. Cash for keys is based upon the principal of paying the scumbag far less money, to achieve the same results as an eviction action - possession of the premises. Although it sucks to give a scumbag anything for something they are doing wrong, $300-$500 is cheap insurance you won’t be getting sued in the future. It works amazingly well.
You mentioned “notice”, so this guy might know how to play the game. His responses to the realtor questions should reveal whether or not this guy intends to dig his heels in the sand.
Remember, agreement or no agreement is not the key here, possession is. Think of it this way, a bank forecloses on a residence. Upon inspection the bank finds it’s a rental only and not owner occupied. Can the bank go in just kick the tenants out, EVEN THOUGH THE TENANTS NO LONGER HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH ANYBODY? No. They have legal possession of the property and must be evicted.
Good luck with it.

[shadow]

Dan,Just so happens i know a guy within 30 miles of the place.He can have the guy out within an hr,and his eyes would probablly be swollen shut so he wouldn't be able to find his way back anyway. :messedup: ;) By the time his eyes got unswollen,they get swelled up once again just for a reminder not to go back.J/K ;)

[shadow]

:D :D :D
Yuppie!
Yuppie who knows a guy =who has a friend =who's brother knows a guy that speacializes in this kind of stuff.

[shadow]

You freakin' crack me up because I could see the guy your brother's wife's friend knows down there kicking that guy in the ass all the way down the street. :D
I think thats the same guy i was thinking of.

[texas-19]

Shut the electricity off,i'm pretty sure it will get real hot in their and dark too.
If you are worried about him taking things just go and remove them before you shut it off.You won't need to spend any money for a lawyer.Bring a couple of your friends to help,let him know their is some locals watching the place,he won't jack with you.I have some rent property and if they think they can push you around they will.Right now you need to call his bluff,kinda like playin poker.
WITHOUT A CONTRACT HE CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING.HE HAS NO LEGAL RIGHT TO LIVE THEIR.
In texas an eviction is only used when a lease is violated.
My favorite saying is "don't be scared".
And before anybody says anything about the electricity thing i know you can't do that when their is a lease even if it is violated.But with no lease their is nothing he can do.Hey,if nobody is suppose to be living their your just trying to save a few bucks.

[Boatcop]

Man that is crazy,
Another f'ed up law to protect freeloaders, GREAT :yuk:
It may sem that the law is to protect freeloaders, but it's actually to meant to favor tennants in landlord/tennant disputes. It puts the burden on the landlord and favors tennants to prevent unscrupulous property owners from running roughshod on renters.
Ignore the midnight lockout, power disruption, beat the guy up advice and do it the legal way. It might take longer, but will keep YOU out of jail.

[shadow]

.
Ignore the midnight lockout, power disruption, beat the guy up advice and do it the legal way. It might take longer, but will keep YOU out of jail.
Agreed!! Just kidding with the previous posts. :shift:

[Essex29]

Agreed!! Just kidding with the previous posts. :shift:
Would have been fun though... :D

[jackpunx]

It may sem that the law is to protect freeloaders, but it's actually to meant to favor tennants in landlord/tennant disputes. It puts the burden on the landlord and favors tennants to prevent unscrupulous property owners from running roughshod on renters.
Ignore the midnight lockout, power disruption, beat the guy up advice and do it the legal way. It might take longer, but will keep YOU out of jail.
the problem here is the house is full of priceless antiques... say the guy starts to take stuff..
what do they do.. Sue him for it back?..
its like trying to get blood from a apple..
I think giving the guy some cash and talking to him will work.. Until he gets drunk again and forgets the conversation that was had earlier..

[Riverkid]

Let Dennis negotiate... :D :D :D

[BADBLOWN572]

"Plenty of holes out there in the desert" ;) :idea:
Just kidding! I am going to go in there and say that I am staying the weekend to clean and at the end of the weekend I am going to change the alarm code and locks. He can either put up a fight and be an a-hole and blow his chances of ever using the house again (as if he ever did have a chance) or he can leave peacefully. I am going to say that it came directly from the owner and that he will be up there and he wants it to be empty of everyone's stuff and he is going to stay for a month or so and does not want to be disturbed or bothered.
This freeloader likes the owner because he thinks that he is a good friend of the owner and really he is just a freeloader. I think that if he is afraid of upsetting the owner, he will leave because he wants something in return for the long term and not just immediately. I think that he feels that if something happens to the owner he will be allowed to use the house at any time he chooses. I am going to tell him to get ALL of his stuff out and if it is left behind, that is his problem. Once he is done, I will walk him to the front and help him pack his car. As soon as he is gone, the locks will be changed, windows closed, etc... I am sure he won't be happy, but I think he is dumb enough to believe what I am saying. :notam: